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What’s a Woman to Do?

2014 May 16
by Mike

This is Jeff Childers debating Jeff Childers in a late Ambien night session at the 2014 Pepperdine Bible Lectures.

6 Responses leave one →
  1. Ken Charles permalink
    May 16, 2014

    Well put!

  2. Jeff McVey permalink
    May 17, 2014

    You had asked that your FACEBOOK page not be used for discussion, which is why I post this here.

    I watched all 47+ minutes of the video (do I get a medal ???), and from it I take away two points:

    1. I agree with the second speaker ; – ) when he talks about how the calls “for justice and gender equality” we hear in the church today are really just the pounding of our culture against the doors of the church. He didn’t mention (but should have) the calls for acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle that are now being thrown against the doors of the church and phrased in terms of “justice and gender / transgender equality.” Really, whatever the culture wants next will be thrown against the doors of the church and paraded out as “justice”.

    2. I think it was the first speaker ; – ) who talked about how God accepted and regulated the institution of human slavery in the church of the 1rst century but obviously (?) never meant to endorse human slavery as an approved relationship for all the ages. I think that this is the wedge that can be used to split the trunk of the tree.

    Today, no one in their right mind would say that God approves of human slavery, and yet there it is in the 1rst century church, sanctioned (to some extent) and regulated by God Himself. What has changed ??? What has changed is the human understanding of the issue. What God tolerated and regulated in the first church now is not tolerated by decent human beings, and modern Western European humans, at least, do not bring the baggage of human slavery with them when they come to church. We have outgrown such a soul-less system of human exploitation.

    Can the same logic be applied to the question of the woman’s place in the church ??? You betcha….

    3. This issue (“justice and gender equality”), along with the various LGBT issues hitting the doors of the church presently, are all just manifestations of the fact that we now live in the post-Christian era. Our society no longer evaluates the authority of a statement by whether it is Biblical; our society now awards authority to statements which are scientifically provable. Christians find themselves promoting an moral viewpoint based on the Bible, which, in turn, bases its authority on claims of various miraculous and supernatural acts purportedly performed by God Himself and other characters prominent in the salvation story, including Jesus.

    I’ll quit here out of respect for all my Christian friends, but only to say that the church’s authority is shrinking daily because of our society’s increasing appreciation for the scientific method of validating claims. We are definitely living in the post-Christian era, and things will only get worse for the church, especially as the lifestyle advocated by the church and that advocated by our society increasingly diverge. The frightening thing is that our society increasingly devalues the individual, and more and more people are running to the church for safety because it tells them that God loves them, that they are important to Him, that their lives are important to Him, and that He has eternal plans for them.

    Myself, I gave up Christianity years ago because of the irrationality associated with it, but I still believe in God with all my heart (basically because the cosmological argument, “somebody had to start the whole ball rolling”, makes tremendous sense to me). And what I find is that, because I believe so powerfully in God, I have a moral foundation (abortion for convenience sake is anathema), and I find myself still to be a surprisingly good person. Anyway, I’ll quit here.

    THANKS for your patience, Mike.

  3. Terry Bouchelle permalink
    May 17, 2014

    Jeff is getting more argurmentive.

  4. David U permalink
    May 20, 2014

    Ok, I am going to start an on-line petition that a Jeff debate is a MUST every year…….both of him!
    That had to be right up there at the top of any of the classes this year!! Thanks for posting this. DU

  5. Bruce Morton permalink
    May 20, 2014

    Jeff:
    I am going to chime in briefly regarding slavery here (and you can reach me at MortonBLSL7@earthlink.net). I will suggest that we misread apostolic teaching regarding slavery. Set against the background of how the Roman empire saw slavery, Paul’s words should not be taken as “accepting” slavery or tolerating. Instead, his letters to Roman Asia represent a kind revolution. Without “challenging” slavery the apostle to the Gentiles’ focus on love transforms slavery so that it would actually cease to exist (A small minority slaves who were treated with love in the Roman period did not think of slavery any differently than we think of going to work everyday, but they were certainly the exception within the empire.). I can point you to some research here if an interest in reading.

    Also, I will share that a study entitled Deceiving Winds looks at the background to Paul’s teaching about gender roles.

    Glad to discuss further.

    In Christ,
    Bruce Morton

  6. October 7, 2014

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