Certainly we all can (and should) engage one another without losing our Christian character.

As for interpretation, I think the following goes well with the blog post’s point: D.A. Carson said it well recently that, “Carl F. H. Henry is fond of saying that there are two kinds of presuppositionalists: those who admit it and those who don’t. We might adapt his analysis to our topic: There are two kinds of practitioners of hermeneutics: those who admit it and those who don’t. The fact of the matter is that every time we find something in the Bible (whether it is there or not!), we have interpreted the Bible. There are good interpretations and there are bad interpretations, but there is no escape from interpretation.”

1) I have read Wright; though not Hays.

2) There is a chance I have misunderstood Wright, but I’m not really sure; not when my own reading in addition to review after review in opposition to his view on justification are so similar in why they disagree. I highly encourage those who are interested to see Michael Horton’s extensive review here: http://bit.ly/d2AaTw (PDF). There are a dozen more well though-out and comprehensive reviews that one can find.

Arguments from others range from Wright’s rosy picture of Rabbinic Judaism, Sanders’s/other NPPers misunderstanding of what the reformers were battling against the Catholic Church (semi-Pelagianism vs. Pelagianism), the minimalistic tone of the doctrine of man and sin, and the really odd redefinition of terms Wright comes up with to make his point work.

As for the original comment above, if I am allowed to continue “jesting”; correct, I’m not sure how saying we will be justified in the last day on the basis of the whole life lived is any different from the Roman Catholic position.

3) I have read Piper on this issue; and he has been a huge influence on me in many ways. As for Driscoll, I’m not sure he’s weighed in on NT Wright; though if he has, I haven’t read it. And I’m not so sure he’d be one of my go-to sources anyway.

But your question can and should be turned around. I have met so many people who just take Wright and believe him (thus falling prey to the fallacy of authority) without even reading Piper (or others who disagree). I think this is the MUCH more prominent case than the opposite (at least in our fellowship).

Wright is a genius, for sure, and has done much good; specifically in his work on the resurrection and the historical Jesus (i.e. his opposition to the Jesus Seminar); I just disagree with him in regards to the topic of justification – which leads to unfortunately greater disagreements it blends into (sufficiency of Christ’s work, a redefinition of the Gospel, etc).

One thing is for sure: I’m no scholar. I listen, I read, and I come up with my own determinations on things and I go with it. I really appreciate the dialogue on it from all angles; in the spirit of grace.

I do want to say that I have read where you have talked about Piper’s “attacks” against Wright. I think that’s kind of lame, really. These are two grown men talking theology that they are both passionate about. The intellectual and at times comical barbs (Wright calling Piper man-centered is just classic – if not embarrassing to Wright ) are back and forth and they can both take it. We would all do well to read Kevin DeYoung’s brief post on “Why are we so offended all the time?” here: http://bit.ly/77iWYL

LASTLY, I believe what we’ve needed is for these two men (Piper/Wright) to be on the same stage at the same time; and this fall they are supposed to serve on a panel together (not sure if it’s at the Evangelical Theological Society’s November conference in Atlanta or not; but wherever it is it will be a must see!) I hope that will be as profitable for all of us as I think it can be.

Grace to you

I agree that recognizing the delicate process of interpretation ought to lead to lots of humility.

And Wright’s dismantling of “justification theory”? You mean his acceptance of the Roman Catholic position. Nothing different than the arguments out of late-19th century Germany. But today, everything is so revolutionary!

Thanks so much, Kathy — so glad to be part of your (and Steve’s) community, too.

QB – Love it! That is an amazing book. I’ll be looping back to Wright, Hays, and the dismantling of “justification theory” soon. But specifically about “Surprised by Hope,” it makes all the difference whether you really believe in resurrection/new creation . . . or not. Thanks.

I know why you are inflexible, you have mental health problems. And that’s a professional opinion.

Actually, I have my own soap obsession (much to Jana’s chagrin). Only Ivory soap for me. Why? It is the only soap that floats. And when you are taking a bath and are looking for the soap that is one nice feature to have. Plus, as a kid, I used it as a boat in my baths.

It’s the little things in life that bring me joy. Like floating soap.

Some of this is bound to arise from what we believe the scriptures to be in the first place…which we inherit, as you say, from the religious tradition in which we were raised. Odd, isn’t it, how we spend the rest of our lives trying to unlearn the things that were instilled in us from the beginning by people we love and trust?

Just finished _Surprised by Hope_, which I have been reading in parallel with _RSG_. A total dismantling, a total deconstruction of the whole escapist/rapture thing. Thrilling. I started offering some of Wright’s ideas in our Bible study group a week ago Tuesday – in the form of questions about what we take for granted about salvation and heaven and life after death and that whole bit – and found the discussion very tough sledding precisely because of the openness factor, or I should say, the lack thereof. Remarkably, this last Tuesday witnessed an incredible advance in openness among the very same men; not in that they agreed with ME, but rather in that THEY brought some delicious insights about how our conception of our destiny ought to shape the way we live in the present (justice, beauty, etc., with a strong emphasis on beauty).

I guess it just seems to me that the Holy Spirit sort of lurks around us in our communities, waiting for the seed of openness to fall into the soil…and then he takes over and moves us as communities into some really creative, wonderful places with the Holy Writ. Where unquestioned dogma reigns, he seems to sit over to the side and smoke a cigarette, with one eyebrow raised and one ear cocked, waiting for any sign that the walls of certitude are beginning to crumble around us.

qb