Comments on: Losing My Religion for Equality

By: Mike

Mike — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 12:03:56 +0000

There were three “Clint comments.” The first and third were by a friend of mine who used to live in Abilene. Someone added a second comment that made it look like it came from him — and it didn’t. (Keep in mind, I have access to IP addresses.) Please don’t.

Kimbly – I left a brief message to you here: http://preachermike.com/2006/10/31/divorce#comment-80827.

By: clint

clint — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:40:29 +0000

Again the clint above is not me.

Mike is there any way you could see who keeps using my name.

By: clint

clint — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:54:06 +0000

Although I admit that it’s easy for me to say that given I’m a man.

By: clint

clint — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:04:11 +0000

It is interesting that we will fight for the right to be equal are higher but the one who is our example

“Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.”

We may be able to read His word but our pride blinds us and we can not see His Word.

By: Ray B.

Ray B. — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:35:17 +0000

Julie , Just because some have lived in disobedince to the will of God , does not give us the right to change His word. Sure , some men have abused women but then so have some women abused men.They are wrong. God is right. Kimbly , what you wrote is right. And you did not twist the scripture. I repeat that there is too much of an effort to let contemporary culture dictate the teaching of scripture. We need to bring the 21st century back into the first. Contextualizing the text will distort the meaning of the text. Also , there are women , and many , who do not agree with the current attempts to change the meaning and they do not feel oppressed and shut out from using their talents. They deeply appreciate the God given design and look at His design as the design needed for the church of all ages and all cultures. They consider themselves as free in Christ.

By: julie

julie — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 06:09:12 +0000

Kimbly, I have heard that so many times but this same argument has been used to justify slavery, racial prejudice, spousal abuse. You can take the scripture and twist it to mean so many things. Don’t get me wrong…I love scripture…it is just not that simple.

By: Kimbly

Kimbly — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 05:24:03 +0000

I think y’all have lost your minds. And your faith and you are missing the one thing that God gave you to end this discussion, THE BIBLE. He answer all question and all of life’s little problems. The New Testament is where the answers are. Women are NOT equal to men. Men are the head of the household. Just as Christ is over the Church. Read people Read you argue over things you have no control over. Yes you can change the Bible to fit your lives. But you can not change God’s Law’s. Do not add to or take away from the word. Go ahead have mercy on your souls.

By: julie

julie — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:41:24 +0000

Sorry Q, I didn’t see that you had responded exactly the same way. But still, Ray, easy for a man to say.

By: julie

julie — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:39:39 +0000

Ray B., easy for a man to say.

By: Ray B.

Ray B. — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:46:35 +0000

Q ,
My point is that I do not consider men any more favored than women. Just having different responsibilities . I do not not consider it as some kind of oppression for men to be designated as the leaders in worship, the church community and at home. I also do not consider what I say as a preferred interpretation. Just the design God has given. It is a design that is good and provides freedom for both men and women.

By: Q

Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:02:08 +0000

My point, Ray, is not contraveining the sufficiency of the perfect will of God. It’s instead pointing out that it’s easy for people to believe that it is clear and plain and not at all complicated — when they’re the ones favored by their preferred interpretation.

By: Ray B.

Ray B. — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 13:45:55 +0000

Q ,
I consider God’s will to be good for every person who will submit to it, male and female. It is a perfect will and transcends all cultures.

By: Q

Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:24:01 +0000

Ray,

It’s often been easy for people to accept things as the clear and direct will of God — so long as it’s clearly in their favor.

By: Ray B.

Ray B. — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:05:57 +0000

I am with you Andrew. Paul said this was true in all the churches. It is God’s perfect design. Culture cannot dictate a better way than the will of God.

By: Gillespie

Gillespie — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 06:53:28 +0000

I appreciate the discussion about how we interpret the text.
During my college years I realized I could either only read the opinions of the people with whom I agreed, or I could also read the opinions (books) of the people I KNEW I didn’t agree. But, read the dissenting opinions honestly, asking myself “is there anything good I can take away from this.” There were a number of books I read that i still walked away saying I didn’t agree on half of what they said, but then I found the other half shaking me to my core.

There are a lot a great books out there on women in the Bible and the church. I’ll throw out a few. Some of these are a little crazy, but like I said, if you read them honestly and vulnerably, you may find a nugget or two that is worth keeping (while you throw a larger chunk away).

Women and the Genesis of Christianity
- Ben Witherington III

In Memory of Her: A Feminist Theological Reconstruction of Christian Origins
- Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza

Beyond Sex Roles: What the Bible says about a woman’s place in the church and the family
- Gilber Bilezikian

Paul, Women, and Wives: Marriage and Women’s Ministry in the Letters of Paul
- Craig Keener

Women in the Church: Reclaiming the Ideal
- Carroll Osburn

Families in the New Testament World
- David Balch and Carolyn Osiek

I would also include “I suffer not a woman” by the Kroegers, but Osburn really took them to task and made me feel their book was a waste of time.

Discovering Biblical Equality: Complimentarity without Heirarchy
- Gordon Fee edits, multiple contributors

If you just want to read one, I’d recommend Carroll Osburn as he’s one of the finest greek scholars from the church of Christ, but he’s also changed his mind over time. I recall hearing him tell an audience (paraphrased) – I did not like what the text showed me. But, I had to decide if I was going to stick with what I felt comfortable or be vulnerable to what my study of the text revealed.
I appreciated the honesty and vulnerability of a life-long CofCer, greek scholar, still open to changing his mind in his 60′s. I’m sure I’ll change my mind a time or twenty over the rest of my lifetime.

Shout out to Andrew! Long time since the Harding Academy days!