“The fall will probably kill you.” The immortal words of Butch Cassidy (one of the great performances of Paul Newman, who died yesterday).
“I’ll put it simple: if you’re going hard enough left, you’ll find yourself turning right.” Doc Hudson (Newman’s voice in “Cars”).
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Thanks to my buddy Jim for this link to Scot McKnight’s article in CT, “The Ironic Faith of Emergents.” (Some of you will get to hear McKnight in a few days at the Zoe Conference.) His eight catalysts are illuminating.
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When Senator McCain selected Sarah Palin as his running mate, I linked to two columns from Washington Post editorial writers to give two views. I didn’t know much about her and was trying to keep an open mind and hear two sides. The positive view was by conservative columnist Kathleen Parker.
Now, I could just have linked to Kathleen Parker: pro (9/5/08) and con (9/26/08).
In her newest column, Parker asks Palin to step out of the race for the good of the country: If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself. . . . Only Palin can save McCain, her party and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first. Do it for your country.
Maybe Sally Quinn (the “con” in my original two articles) will now come out in support of Governor Palin.
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I watched the first debate with a roomful of friends. I think the general consensus was that it was a draw.
Mike,
What an incredible weekend. First, we have the financial mess debate, then the real debate, and now on top of all that, Paul Newman is dead. These are tough times. btw….Larry S asked me to help with his sermon tomorrow by trying to explain what’s happening in the markets….now that’s a tough draw. But a Gordon Gekko video clip should help me along.
All this say, in our household, none of this compares to the real pressure of the weekend. Getting freshman daughter and junior son ready for the homecoming dance. Now those are TOUGH TIMES!
Mike,
Just wanted you to know how much I always appreciate your tone and humor here. I love reading your blogs not just because I agree with most of what you say but also how you say it. And it keeps me at least virtually connected to my alma mater and my favorite bible class while there. The comment section would make it difficult for anyone to continue openly sharing their opinions so I’ll be understanding when you decide to wrap it up but I just want you to know that I’ll miss it when its gone! Thanks alot, Mike.
Amen, Josh!!
Tonight it’s Hot Wings with Newman Blue Cheese Dressing on the Side.
We will miss Paul Newman - what a loss.
I will miss being with all of you at Zoe this year - my loss!
The debates were a draw. Sarah Palin really scares me, though.
As a Christian I was waiting for both of our professing Christian presidential candidates to speak about 1)loving our enemy and praying for those who perscutes, 2) utilizing the self-sacrificial servanthood power of the cross rather than the strong arm power of the sword, and 3) implementing the beatitudes Jesus taught into our foreign and domestic policy. But that did not happen! I guess the way of Jesus does not garner the support of this Christian nation when it comes to what counts - votes.
-Rex
As hath been recorded in the holy video archives of the church of Wasila: Witches be banned! And so it hath been done, and those who defile the name of the de witchified Palin by bringing up facts and fears about her views and qualifications will be smitten by the mighty sword of the Conservatives! Let the witch evil demon reporters who will ask questions about her views on important issues concerning our nation be kept away from the Cone of Silence the McCain handlers have erected with the help of the Laying on of Hands from the Church of Wasila. Let those who will vote for the Palin ticket get their “lipstick on a pig in a poke” for it has been hidden from their hearts as to what She stands for as the evil doer media will try vainly to find out but she has been blessed and none can find out until November the 5th as it has been written by the McCain campaign.
The elitist wing of the conservative movement has always been wary of us libertarians coming into the GOP. Sarah Palin is one of the top elected libertarian Republicans in the country, (along with Idaho’s Gov. Butch Otter, and Cong. Jeff Flake of AZ).
Of course, she’s going to make some conservatives nervous.
They are wary of her libertarian cultural views. This is the woman, after all, who famously fought back against social conservatives in Wasilla who wanted to run all of the bars and taverns out of town.
They even started a whisper campaign in Alaska during the 2006 primaries that Sarah wasn’t really a Republican, but rather a “closet libertarian.” She had attended a couple local Libertarian Party meetings seeking their support.
But what she loses from the social conservatives, she gains 10 times over in libertarian votes.
Figure, Libertarian Bob Barr was polling 6% nationwide in mid-summer. As high as 10% in New Hampshire. And post-Palin he’s now down to 1%.
Ever since Goldwater the eastern establishment Republicans have distrusted Western cowboy individualists in the GOP.
With Sarah Palin, the libertarian wing of the GOP has finally arrived. Of course, that’s going to make some other Republicans nervous.
Get over it Conservatives, THE LIBERTARIANS HAVE ARRIVED!!
I guess I have a different perspective, but I think Kathleen Parker is completely wrong in her second column. Looking at our current mess, the last thing we need is another inside-the-beltway, career politician in Washington. Governor Palin would bring common sense and a much-needed breath of fresh air. Perhaps she is not yet proficient in answering “gotcha” questions from condescending reporters with an agenda. But is that a bad thing?
The politicians in Washington (including McCain and Obama) are good at 1)giving sound bytes to the TV cameras, 2)raising money, 3) getting wealthy, and 4)running for reelection.
I’m only sad that Governor Palin is not at the top of the GOP ticket.
Thanks for sharing Scot’s article with us.
According to Kathleen Parker and others, I am sure glad Jesus never ran for a position in this country.
I think Mr Biden and Mr Obama double speak too much for my comfort.
We are just the poor saps who hang on to our guns and our religion.
Dear Politics and Culture,
Did you just say you wish Palin would be at the top of the GOP ticket? I think it is pretty clear you are putting your ideology before your IQ. When leading conservative intellectuals are expressing doubts I think your admission here officially moves you into the category of “I’ll say anything so my side can win.”
Yes Richard, that’s what I said.
I think the professional politicians have done enough damage, don’t you? I am more than happy to put my trust in someone with practical life experience, fresh ideas, common sense, and who has not been tainted by Washington.
I’ll take my chances going against the “leading conservative intellectuals” (or the liberal ones for that matter).
“I am more than happy to put my trust in someone with practical life experience, fresh ideas, common sense, and who has not been tainted by Washington.”
That’s why I put my trust in Jesus… sheesh, you’re getting way too uppity about this election.
Politics and Culture,
I do agree that an “outsider” would be awesome. I’ve longed for it for some years and occasionally vote for third parties just to open up the landscape.
But we aren’t talking about outsiders in the abstract. Just any ol’ outsider won’t cut it. We are talking about a particular person here.
I was willing to give SP a chance. She did well at the Convention. But having watched her interviews and how the McCain campaign is “protecting” her, well, my view has dimmed considerably. Take, for instance, her no-show after the debate. There was Biden, talking to all the networks. Praising Obama and blasting McCain. That is the traditional role of the VP pick after a Presidential debate. Where was Palin? If the McCain can’t trust her to talk to reporters why should I trust her to talk to world leaders or, potentially, have access to the US nuclear codes?
She is just a poor pick for VP and, thus, for you to suggest that she should actually be the President makes me question your judgment. Surely, as a Republican, you could do better than Sarah Palin for President. If not, well, what does that say about the GOP?
Dow is hovering over the abyss as we speak, down 580 points as the House balks on the bailout. Obama probably benefits from this a little more, but right now - the only winner I see is anyone with vast amounts of cash or gold. I’ve seen muliple discussions on-line about folks wondering if they should go get all their money and hide it - and these are not insane people. Both men may give the job back to Bush.
can’t further comment….bush plans war with ROSSIYA on either 20 Oktober 2008 or 21 Oktober 2008.
Look for martial law so GWB doesn’t have to leave.
After the past 8 years of fiasco, I can’t vote republican. I voted for Bush in 2000. He has completely pushed me in the other direction. Palin’s interview with Katie Couric was a joke. She actually said she has foreign experience because Russia is next door to Alaska.
Did anyone else notice how McCain would never look at Obama during the debate? Maybe he was intimated by Obama or maybe he was afraid he’d lose the bug in his ear.
The more I watch Government work the more I believe God knew what he was talking about in 1 Samuel 8
P&C,
For example:
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/09/sarah_palins_terrifying_ignora.php
Mike- A blogging hiatus might be a good idea afterall. I think that the fun is fading for the readers as well.
My memory comes and goes - but wasn’t the hardest-hitting question Bill ever got was how many times he cheated on Hillary? And I think the answer Hillary gave was a Loretta Lynn song -or was it Conway Twitty?
You have to jump out of the boat sometimes to challenge ourselves. I am doing that right now and feel the Lord will bless me.
http://www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org
I think when things start going down the black helicopters, martial law road maybe it is time to go on hiatus.
The debate was a draw but it confirmed for me the primary difference between the two candidates. Senator Obama expressed himself in theories. His lack of experience was painfully obvious. He gave answers that were better suited for a political science dissertation defence. Not much of what he said was based upon reality. And there was a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking. It is east to sit back an be critical of what has happened in the past. McCain, while he is not a favorite, at least has earned his gray hair with some experience and has actually been in difficult situations which required a decision to be made.
Sarah Palin is a breath of frsh air. She has been “Quayled”. I full expect one of these journalist to ask her how to spell the word “potato”. I have no problem with the criticism she has received. However, I do have a major problem with the lack of scrutiny of Joe Biden, his mistakes, his votes and his positions. And if Sarah Palin does not have the experience to be Vice-President, how is it that Barak Obama has the experience to be President?
All of this reminds me that as a Christian, we are to be participants in the political process. However, our faith and trust belong elsewhere. Besides, as Peter said, we are just passing through.
Thank you MK — a insightful and well-written comment.
I especially liked your question: “if Sarah Palin does not have the experience to be Vice-President, how is it that Barak Obama has the experience to be President?”
I still have not heard an Obama supporter give a good answer to that question. And no, working as a community agitator does not count.
An excellent picture of Brian McLaren.
http://www.spurgeon.org/images/pyromaniac/TeamPyro/e-s_068.jpg
POST-Motivator Posters
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/posters.htm
Sarah Palin is a breath of nitrous oxide — exactly what she’s supposed to be. Breath deeply. Go to sleep. Don’t pay attention to what’s happening in the world. Believe the “fundamentals of the economy are strong”… er, a mess… er, we need to fire the head of the SEC… er, he’s doing a heckuva job… er… Well just don’t worry about it. You don’t need any of those details Barack started trying to work out in legislation more than a year ago, or even the details he started focusing on weeks ago. You need “experience.” Breathe deeply. Believe what you’re told, but don’t trust what you see with your own eyes. Don’t pay attention to the fact that the current administration has repeatedly and shamelessly violated the constitution. Don’t pay attention to the fact that they’ve touted faith and Christianity while advocating torture and pillaging the economy. Don’t pay attention to the fact that McCain has been complicit with it all. He’s a “maverick.” Breathe deeply. Don’t pay attention to the fact that deregulation sponsored by all of McCain’s “experience” has led to the current financial crisis, that Phil Gramm, his chief financial advisor and likely Secretary of the Treasury was architect of the entire disaster. Breathe deeply. Let your intellect drift Lethe-ward, Despise thoughtfulness, complexity, diversity, expertise… Breathe deeply. Don’t blink (you can’t; it’s a sign of WEAKNESS)… Breathe deeply. Ignore reality. Live in the hyperreal simulation. It’s easier. It’s what we want you to do. Breathe deeply.
Troy, MK, P&C, the US needs more people like you. It will make the dissection of the constitution so much less noticeable… You, too, are doing a heckuva job. Just keep breathing deeply. Thanks for proving that the chief task of the electorate is to be docile and deceived — even self-deceived… To take whatever they’re spoon-fed… To breathe deeply…
Now you won’t even feel this a little bit….
Politics & Culture,
I reprinted portions of Obama’s experience and legislation in the original feed on Palin as VP. It’s copious. But it probably doesn’t matter since, as 77 notes, you probably aren’t concerned about the real world (certainly if you’ve “never heard an Obama supporter give a good answer.”
So let’s focus on Palin. Which part do you like best: Leaving Wasilla (debt-free when she took office) $20 million in debt when she left? Hiring a lobbyist to help her state get more earmarks (that she decries) than many other states? Being “Commander-in-Chief” of the Alaska National Guard and never issuing a single command? Getting her first passport last year and going on one PR trip overseas? Supporting “family values” by having her own first child born a mere 8 months after her wedding (does the apple fall far from the tree)?
She’s a catch all right. Dripping with experience.
When Katie Couric can outfox you (even under the most rigidly controlled press access in HISTORY), you’re not much of a contender, are you?
Mike, I would miss having your blog. Maybe you could allow no comments but still give us some of your thoughts every week or so. The unvelievable comments have become wearisome, but we would still love to hear from you.
I will take the bait and respond. I think it is important to have dialogue, although it is apparent that 77 and Bill would rather pontificate about their protection of the constitution. I find your holier than thou liberalism shallow at best. Rather than debate issues or support candidates, you would rather make accusatory and outlandish statements. That is a good debate tactic when you do not have a candidate nor an issue for which you can make a successful arguement.
This crisis we face lies at the feet of a lot of people. People who took loans that they should not have. Companies that made loans that should not have made them. Regulators that did not enforce existing laws and regulations. Congress which changed the laws to allow loans to be made with greater risk under the guise of community reinvestment. It is more than a little appalling that we are now looking to spend billions of dollars to rescue those that did wrong. All I did was pay my bills every month. Little did I know that I could have let it all slide and the government would have taken care of me.
I would much have some one from the world of reality like Sarah Palin playing a role in the decisions that are made in our nation’s capitol than someone looking down from his ivory tower and ivy league educated nose at me like Barak Obama. Sarah Palin has been active in the raising of her family and involved in her community. Sarah Palin has worked a real job. And, Sarah Palin has made executive decisions. Barak Obama? Not so much.
77 I am glad people are around like you. You help me and others understand the need for people that live a real life to be active and involved in public service, even if it is just to look at the issues and vote. For if people like you were left alone to fulfill your holier than thou liberalism, we would find ourselves right where your policies would lead us. Where is that? Having dear old Uncle Sam taking care of us.
Bill/77 - I’m on the same page as you! What’s happened the past 7 years is enough to let me know that I want NO part of anything that has a “R” by their name. I’d vote for Donald Duck first!
Mike,
I hope you decide to continue this blog even if you do disable comments. I would really miss reading your perspectives.
I still miss your preaching. You have a unique talent that few are blessed with.
And your humor — well all I can say is that I still retell your “Megan got your toothbrushes” story.
Dear MK,
I wasn’t pontificating. I was mocking. There’s a difference.
So teach me more about the strategies you use when you “do not have a candidate nor an issue for which you can make a successful arguement.” You’re the best expert I can imagine on that topic (and unlike you, I actually value expertise).
So let me be the first to acknowledge: I find your thoughtfully reasoned and carefully supported argu(e)ment perfectly compelling. Heck, anybody who has listened thoughtfully to Palin (let alone looked at her actual record and examined her “experience”) could hardly avoid realizing the “world of reality” that characterizes Palin’s (and her supporters’) life. How could I have been so decieved? How could I have valued something stupid like education — especially when I know, for example, that people without education always make the best decisions and know the most. Heck, that’s why I would never trust a minister who actually knew Greek or Hebrew; I don’t need some highfalutin, holier-than-thou “expert” telling me that I shouldn’t keep that slave in my basement: IT’S IN THE BIBLE! And I can’t think of anything worse than having a president who’s constitutional law scholar who passed up high-paying Wall Street and Supreme Court jobs to help the poor and jobless in Chicago? What kind of fool would think helping the poor and working with inner-city churches is a good idea? Ha! Only somebody (you’re absolutely right!) who doesn’t understand the value of copious “executive experience” would make such a bone-headed decision! For the love of heaven, SARAH PALIN HAS ORDERED STATIONERY! What has Barack ever done?
Yep. You’re absolutely right! I’m totally convinced.
And you’re right, MK. Having our government serve us would be a terrible thing. I can’t imagine anything worse.
Did you guys see what David Frum (one of Bush’s former speechwriters) said about Palin in the New York Times? “I think she has pretty thoroughly — and probably irretrievably — proven that she is not up to the job of being President of the United States.”
What he said in the National Post is even more damning. Clearly MK needs to talk to his compatriot (and remember: he’s a Bushie!) about Palin’s “world of reality”:
“Ms. Palin’s experience in government makes Barack Obama look like George C. Marshall. She served two terms on the city council of Wasilla, Alaska, population 9,000. She served two terms as mayor. In November, 2006, she was elected governor of the state, a job she has held for a little more than 18 months. She has zero foreign policy experience, and no record on national security issues.
All this would matter less, but for this fact: The day that John McCain announced his selection of Sarah Palin was his birthday. His 72nd birthday. Seventy-two is not as old as it used to be, but Mr. McCain had a bout with melanoma seven years ago, and his experience in prison camp has uncertain implications for his future health.
If anything were to happen to a President McCain, the destiny of the free world would be placed in the hands of a woman who until the day before Friday was a small-town mayor.
Mr. McCain’s supporters argue that he is more serious about national security than Barack Obama. But the selection of Sarah Palin invites the question: How serious can he be if he would place such a neophyte second in line to the presidency? Barack Obama at least balanced his inexperience with Mr. Biden’s experience. What is Mr. McCain doing?
Vice-presidents have historically made surprisingly little difference to the outcome of presidential elections. The elder Bush picked Dan Quayle in 1988 in hopes of wooing younger voters, much as Walter Mondale had chosen Geraldine Ferraro in 1984, in an effort to mobilize women, and George McGovern had hoped that Sargent Shriver would stanch his losses among Catholics in 1972.
None of these gambits worked. Ms. Ferraro did not deliver women, Mr. Quayle did not deliver youth, and Catholics defected to Nixon in 1972.
Where vice-presidents - and especially Republican vice-presidents - make an enormous difference is after the election.
Since the Second World War, 10 men have received the Republican nomination for vice-president. Three of those men - Richard Nixon, Bob Dole and George H.W. Bush - continued on to win the presidential nomination for themselves, and two actually became president. (A fourth nominee, Thomas Dewey’s 1948 running mate, Earl Warren, rose to arguably even greater power as chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. And you could add a fifth case: Gerald Ford went on to the presidency after being appointed vice-president in 1973.)
Should John McCain lose in November, Sarah Palin has just pole-vaulted into front-runner status for 2012. Should Mr. McCain win, her grip on the next Republican nomination will become a lock.
So this is the future of the Republican party you are looking at: a future in which national security has bumped down the list of priorities behind abortion politics, gender politics, and energy politics. Ms. Palin is a bold pick, and probably a shrewd one. It’s not nearly so clear that she is a responsible pick, or a wise one.”
Interesting. Why is it so hard to see that it is not Republicans that have us in the shape we are in; nor is it Democrats. We have a political system that is broken and I doubt that any of the candidates will be able to do much, if anything, about the mess.
This non-intellectual would rather see Congress composed of individuals who were not allowed to run again and again. If that means inexperienced elected officials, I’d take that chance. I believe they would have a better chance of restoring sense and civility to Congress.
TC, I agree in principle, but it’s naive to see Palin as an outsider. She was a key lobbyist for the indicted Ted Stevens, and has been a key part of the Alaskan Republican political machine (though she has a long history of turning on those who have helped her rise up in the system). She’s no more an outsider than McCain — or Bush, for that matter.
What she lacks is actual governing experience. She’s been an operative of the very type you decry; she hasn’t been the sort of “sense and civility” public servant you value. She is a marketing project — and even most Republicans recognize it.
I do think it’s a profound problem that we keep electing people like Palin and McCain (and Bush) who are not actual conservatives. Conservatives certainly believe in small government, but they profoundly believe in government — and in the importance of a sense of commonwealth. The current crop of “republicans” don’t seem to see ANY value in ANY government other than as a means of serving narrow, selfish, personal gain. They have worked to dismantle the notion of commonwealth in order to serve the wishes of the industries lobbying them — oil companies, Enron, Halliburton, Bectel. This is why Cheney developed energy policy in a room full of oil executives, but would not allow the people even to discover what was discussed. And that is not democracy; it’s fascism.
The most astonishing thing to me — evidence even here in people’s comments — is the way middle and even lower class people have been convinced to support and defend a political position that doesn’t serve their needs or the needs of people like them.
I invite people to read Eisenhower’s farewell speech at http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html
Now there was a good conservative President. What would he say about his party today?
77
Thanks for pointing out your candidate’s efforts to serve the poor in Chicago. He worked with a group known as ACORN. This orgnization is well known and has documented cases across the country for its internal corruption and numerous conviction in voter fraud cases. They previously also led the charge for a “living wage” and the mandate for health care benefits for all. They dropped the living wage fight and the health care mandate when it was discovered that ACORN themselves do not pay a living wage nor do they provide their employees health benefits.
Such hypocrisy has become the norm for your candidate. He has spoken against the Bush tax cuts and now he speaks in favor of keeping them. He has spoken against off shore drilling. Now he speaks in favor of off shore drilling. He was against the troop surge but now admits it worked, but should have been tried earlier, however, he still would have voted against it.
Obama’s policies will not lead to the government “serving” you. In fact, it will lead to the opposite. It will lead to the government owning you.
I still like the commercial that shows the firefighters running Congress. Direct, to the point and getting things done. Something I do not see occuring with this candidate for president selected by the Democrat Party.
Bill
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are entities beholden unto the Democrat Party and its leadership. The Democrat controlled Congress has refused to address the issues related to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in spite of warnings that have been present the past 4 years. In fact, their approach rather than provide oversight is to provide direction. As the Banking Committee Cahirman, Barney Frank has been forcing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to issue more credit to more credit risks in poor areas. While that is a noble theory, the reality is that if you cannot pay back your mortgage, you should not be allowed to have a mortgage. Now, we have people not only wanting to bailout Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, they are wanting to bailout the people that took out the loans. How crazy is this!
What do I get? All I did was pay my mortgage on time.
MK, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were paying John McCain’s campaign director at least $15,000 per month to guarantee access to him… And were still paying him as recently as last month. They paid him several hundred thousand dollars over the course of their “relationship.” Obama had no such “access.” Tell me who’s beholden to whom again?
Phil Gramm and his Republican partners (including McCain) systematically dismantled the regulation that required assurances for mortgages — that kept home prices from inflating beyond what the homes were actually worth. I guarantee you it wasn’t the poor who caused the problem (though thanks for reminding us whom you guys see as the core of the problem — not corporate greed, but the poor… Who knew? Shouldn’t you tell your candidate so he can incorporate it into his stump speech? “The problem is the poor, my friends. We must rid ourselves of them.”). Inner cities are not the places where the housing market inflated artificially. Think California. And worst of all, think Arizona (a coincidence, no doubt). And it’s not the poor who can’t pay their mortgages. It’s the middle class (do we need to get rid of them, too?).
And the adjectival form is “democratic,” you benighted publican.
What do you get? What you deserve, apparently. But the rest of us suffer with you.
Mike…my company is producing the next debate (here in nashville). I wish you could come with me. It’s gonna be CRAZY!!!!!
Bill
The poor are not the problem. It is the people who take on debt they cannot pay. It is lenders that create loans and then issue them to people that are not credit worthy. It is the government that created the legislation that allows such credit risks to be taken and then imposes its will(Thank you Barney Frank) to force loans to be issued for which the people cannot pay.
The Democrat party has long held an extremely close relationship with Freddie and Fannie. Just look at who funded their recent convention in Denver, their congressional campaigns, their senatorial campaigns and their national party. While McCain may have had a staffer who was a paid lobbyist, that is different than an entire polical party being beholden unto them.
Also, ACORN is one of the most corrupt organizations in America. Their founder and his brother are on trial in New Orleans for pilfering funds from ACORN. Municipalities across the country have contracted with them to assist people in the purchases of homes, only to discover that ACORN did nothing but pay their staff and utility bills with the funds they received. Google can provide you a list of voter fraud cases as long as your arm in which ACORN was involved. I guess all of that education that Obama received assisted him in keeping his name out of all of the indictments ACORN has been given in Chicago. Too bad he could not find a way to help his chief fund raiser and top political operatives in his previous campaigns. If that is the type of service Obama has given, no thanks. That is not the service experience we need in the White House.
MK, ACORN has done bad things. And good things. Like John McCain, one of the Keating 5 and someone WHO HAS A PAID LOBBYIST FOR FREDDIE AND FANNIE AS HIS CAMPAIGN MANAGER. And is also an American hero.
You’re clearly really peeved about ACORN. It seems like it’s been involved in some dicey stuff. However, this organization has also clearly done a lot of good and has helped many as well. Check out the good and the bad at the Wikipedia entry. Or at ACORN’s own website.
The problem with Googling is that you gather sources of questionable credibility — people making “truth” up or repeating it without evidence (i.e., truthiness). You know, the kind of stuff you’ve been feeding on for a long time. It’s the publican diet: lots of air without much stuff (sort of like the mortgages Phil and his pals enabled — with the help, yes, of idiots from both parties. Or Sarah).
Here’s the problem: ACORN has no real link with Obama. Obama may have worked with ACORN — along with many other organizations — to help the poor get off welfare and get jobs (wait, are you for that or against that?). But he never worked FOR them and has had nothing to do with their management. And he has gained nothing at their hands.
So what’s your point again? Why would you snap up some made-up connection while ignoring the real one McCain has with all the Fannie/Freddie stuff? And it’s not just “a staffer.” It’s his campaign manager. He’s gotten more than $2 million over the past 5 years from them. And got paid again last month. Here’s the original news story: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/politics/22mccain.html He’s not alone. At least 20 McCain fundraisers (in addition to other staffers) have lobbied for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, pocketing at least $12.3 million over the last nine years. Pretty.
Where’s the evidence of the stuff you accuse Obama of? Oh yeah. Evidence not necessary. Indeed, evidence despised (there’s that whole Palin thing, again). But what’s one to expect? After all, you seem unable to say the word “democratic” (and seem surprisingly unconcerned about the republic). Cute. What a publican thing to do.
77, thanks for the help. Well said. So you like the publican thing? It seems an appropriate response to the wingnut use of “democrat.”
MK, you’re something else. You know, at first, I thought you must be serious. But now I realize you’re just doing parody. Very funny stuff. I love it. Forgive me for being thick and not seeing it at first. Very funny. You’re almost as good as Colbert. We just need some way of indicating parody online so people don’t think it’s serious by mistake.
Ha! I hope MK does the one about the liberal media. That one’s hilarious in the age of Rush/Rove/O’Reilly/Beck/Hannity/Malkin/Fox/etc./etc./etc…
Sorry I misjudged you, MK. It really is funny stuff. Thanks.
“Here’s the problem: ACORN has no real link with Obama. Obama may have worked with ACORN — along with many other organizations — to help the poor get off welfare and get jobs (wait, are you for that or against that?). But he never worked FOR them and has had nothing to do with their management. And he has gained nothing at their hands.”
That sounds exactly like the Republicans trying to distance Bush/Cheney from Halliburton! Same excuse, different names.
Thanks to all for the Fannie and Freddie contribution talk. That is the very reason I am switching my vote to McCain. Many have lined their contribution chests with Fannie and Freddie money, but McCain had the courage to look them in the eye a few of years ago and demand they change their business practices. And at a time that he knew full well the campaign for Republican nomination would be heating up and he needed every dollar. But realizing the looming crisis, he demanded change. Unfortunately, it fell on deaf ears, and now we pay the ultimate price.
Democrat or Republican, we all see the need for some things to change. In a period of hearing all the political jargon, I’m relieved to see actual proof that one of the candidates put his political future at risk in order to serve the people’s interest. Maybe a much needed maverick after all.
Bill,
I think you jumped to a conclusion regarding Palin when I spoke of the “inexperienced.” Earlier in the reply I said, “I doubt that any of the candidates will be able to do much, if anything, about the mess.”
It was Congress to which I was referring (”This non-intellectual would rather see Congress composed of individuals who were not allowed to run again and again.”).
C, first of all, I doubt you’re “switching your vote.” Second, Cheney was president of Halliburton; he DID work for them (and guided their policies) — there is no distance. Plus, Bush/Cheney have worked diligently to give them no-bid contract after no-bid contract. But if you’ve got any actual proof of the Obama/ACORN connection, you bring it.
As for Fannie and Freddie, I’d love to see any “actual proof” of your story. There is actual proof of a few things: McCain had the courage to look them in the eye and say, “Yes, I’ll deregulate that for you and let you do whatever you want.” He also had the courage to say, “Yes, you can buy my campaign manager, and you can also staff my campaign with your lobbyists and pay them millions of dollars for access to me.” (I can send multiple, credible links to both stories if you’d like). Now that’s maverick.
I do love your fiction about his defiant (yet powerless) attempt to stand up to Fannie and Freddie, though. It’s a great story. It’s almost as good as the one about the guy who’s been in the senate since 1983, a member of the “Keating 5″ who voted with Bush more than 90% being the one who will bring us “change.”
The sad thing is that the McCain you’re describing once seemed to exist. But he hasn’t been around since 2002 or so. The new one would sell you anything to get elected: hire Rove, pander with Palin, wobble precariously on any issue (how many responses to the bailout has this man had?). Really, he needs a new slogan:
John McCain: slightly less than 10% maverick!
Concern about curbing the subprime crisis and dealing with mortgage fraud is not new to Obama:
(from the Financial Times of London, August 29, 2007. By Barack Obama)
[Hey! That's more than a year ago and this says almost the opposite of what MK and TC have said. Hmmm. Just another case of the facts having a liberal bias]
“The implosion of the subprime lending industry is more than a temporary blip in our economic progress. It is a cancer that, given today’s integrated financial markets, threatens to spread with devastating impact to housing and to our economy as a whole, unless we act to contain it.
“It is also a parable about how an excess of lobbying and influence can defeat common sense rules ofthe road, placing both consumers and our nation’s economic well-beingat risk.
“This all started as a good idea - helping people buy homes who previously could not afford to. But over time, lenders began pushing low-income buyers into homes they could not possibly afford, abusing the system by lowering their lending standards, making loans that required no money down and offering low, teaser interest rates that explode after the initial grace period. Some borrowers were also lying to get mortgages or engaging in irresponsible speculation.
“Nearly everyone - from lenders to investors to borrowers - fooled themselves into thinking that what they were doing was low risk when it in fact involved a lot of risk.
“But we also know that Washington played a role. At a time when non-bank lenders were offering new kinds of mortgage, the federal government should have made sure it was all being done on the level. Instead, our government failed to provide the regulatory scrutiny that could have preventedthis crisis.
“There is a reason why this has happened. Over the past several years, while predatory lenders were driving low-income families into financial ruin, 10 of the country’s largest mortgage lenders were spending more than $185m (£92m) lobbying Washington to let them get away with it. So if we really want to make sure this never happens again, we need to end the lobbyist-driven politics that made it possible.
“Today, as we weigh our options on how best to resolve this crisis, many argue that bailing out the borrowers and investors will just encourage them to engage in more of the same irresponsible practices.
“But I think we also have to recognise what will happen if we reward the mortgage industry’s lobbying: they will keep using the same kinds of deceptive practices to make a quick buck, no matter what the consequences to home buyers and their communities. Rather than correct what they are doing wrong, these companies will knowthat if things go badly, they can always lobby Washington to let them offthe hook.
“The real victims in this crisis are the millions of borrowers who followed the rules, whose only crime was taking out mortgages that lenders told them they could afford. Normally, these borrowers could avoid foreclosure by refinancing their mortgages or selling their homes. The problem today is that they cannot refinance because no one will lend to them, and they cannot sell because the housing market has fallen. With some arguing that the effects of the worst subprime loans will not be felt until 2008 and 2009, this may be just the beginning.
“We need to help struggling borrowers to weather this storm. One way to protect innocent homeowners - at least until this crisis passes - is to establish a fund to help people refinance or sell to avoid foreclosure. We can partially pay for this fund by imposing penalties on lenders that acted irresponsibly or committed fraud.
“But we have to do more than just deal with the present crisis. If we do not address the root of these problems, it is just a matter of time before we will be dealing with them again.
“The rules currently governing mortgages were written in the 20th century to make borrowing easier to understand for borrowers. We need to update these rules for the 21st century and enact the regulatory and disclosure laws that the mortgage industry has been lobbying against.
“That is why I have proposed a Home Score system that would create a simplified, standardised metric for home mortgages - rather like the annual percentage rate (APR), the effective interest rate a borrower ends up paying on a loan - allowing prospective homebuyers easily to compare variousmortgage products so they can find out whether they can afford to make the payments.
“I have also introduced a bill in the US Senate called the Stop Fraud Act that would treat those who commit mortgage fraud as the criminalsthey are.
“Owning a home represents a big part of the American dream and all Americans - no matter what their income level - should have the power to reach for that dream. But that is not going to happen until we stop the unlicensed, unregulated, fly-by-night mortgage brokers who are hoodwinking low-income borrowers into taking on loans they cannot afford.
“If we are serious about stopping this crisis and preventing much larger turmoil in US housing markets, Washington needs to stop acting like an industry advocate and start acting like a public advocate.”
Oh, and Obama curbing mortgage fraud:
(from the Chicago Tribune, February 15, 2006)
“Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) proposed a sweeping set of federal reforms Tuesday to combat mortgage fraud, ratcheting up enforcement and creating a national database of brokers who have been disciplined.
“Obama’s bill would increase funding for federal law enforcement programs, create new criminal penalties for mortgage professionals found guilty of fraud and require industry insiders to report suspicious activity.
“Mortgage fraud is “robbing thousands of Americans of their dream of homeownership, and costing the mortgage industry hundreds of millions of dollars each year,” Obama said. “Congress needs to come to the table and do its part.”
“Obama and the bill’s co-sponsor, Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), said they were moved to act by a recent Tribune series on mortgage fraud, in which swindlers use high-tech identity theft and face-to-face scams to wrest control of homes, then secure hefty bank loans that go unpaid.
“Illinois Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan and state lawmakers introduced their own reforms in Springfield following the series. During the last five years, FBI reports of mortgage fraud have soared across the U.S.
“A Tribune analysis of some 500 Chicago-area cases showed the scams disproportionately affect low-income neighborhoods, where they leave abandoned homes and displaced families. Drug-dealing gangs have adopted the white-collar crime, the paper found, even as lending companies found themselves enmeshed in fraud schemes.
“Obama’s bill would authorize $10 million more for anti-mortgage fraud programs in the Departments of Justice and Housing and Urban Development.
“It also would require the FBI to update bankers on fraudulent activity in a formal, systematic way. Today, real estate attorneys, companies and trade groups rely on several industry Web sites that use news articles and government press releases to disseminate fraud reports from across the country.
“And the bill would establish a national database of mortgage professionals who have been sanctioned by state or federal regulatory agencies.”
Nice story to show he is against fraud. Who isn’t! That article could be written about almost anyone. Now, the sub-prime atricle–that is another story. I like what he is saying. Too bad we don’t live in London or we might have read it. Wonder why no US media outlet picked it up. Probably because he was starting to sound a lot like McCain has been sounding for years.
I don’t know, brother, Obama is starting to scare me. When you get past his smooth rhetoric, I keep hearing about funding this and that, starting federal programs for this and that…. Yet, once you get by the McCain = Bush perception and start really listening, McCain truly seems to about honest reform in the true interst of the people.
C, show me McCain articulating anything like what Obama has said about the subprime — a speech, a bill, an article, anything. And show me McCain articulating it first so Obama can “sound a lot like” him. McCain did write an article recently, but unfortunately, it was in favor of the repeal of regulation (deregulation caused the problem in the first place) and defending the benefits of subsidizing the government by investing in the markets (see him on doing this with healthcare at http://www.contingencies.org/septoct08/mccain.pdf What would have happened if healthcare, social security, and other government initiatives were invested in the markets right now? Whose interests is McCain protecting?). And show me any actual reason since 2002 not to equate Bush with McCain — again, some place where McCain has really stood up to the president. Torture? Well, sorta. McCain tried to get Bush to stop, but he didn’t fight the signing statement Bush issued to keep doing it.
All one gets from McCain is truthiness. All one gets from Palin is hollow platitudes, the junk food of politics. And all one gets from you are unsupported “Obama’s scary” and “McCain’s the answer” nonsense. You can think what you like, but until you can actually support it with facts, let’s not pretend that it’s real or reasoned, okay?
By the way, you know how Obama funds this an that? By eliminating eliminating loopholes so corporations can avoid paying taxes, by ending the failed and pointless war in Iraq ($10 billion a month), and by eliminating redundancy.
So it’s clear that you have no idea what Obama actually believes or has proposed as policy. The article is clearly news to you. Yet for some reason, you’ve chosen McCain and despise Obama (even when you agree with him, you apparently have to find a reason for him to “scare” you). On what information did you make your decision?
Okay, sure. Try http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306632135350949. (McCain’s support of Bush proposals in 2003 and excerpts of his own warnings in 2005.)
“Obama’s bill would increase funding for federal law enforcement programs,…” I’ll just take this example from the post you had today. This is only a small example; however, I’m also hearing reports that Obama happens to have the most liberal voting record in Congress.
So, there are some facts. I guess I do have some idea, but in the end I suppose it still boils down to me thinking what I like —- and what I like is someone I really feel I can trust. McCain has clearly been winning my trust lately.
Finally, I would imagine I’m like most in the desire to see stabilization in the democracy in Iraq, and see our troops come home. But, I in no way see the war in Iraq as failed and pointless as you claim Obama does.
77 & Bill:
Without a doubt, your well intentioned support for Barak Obama does not seem to recall some of the key members of the Obama campaign and their role in the demise of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Let’s see if you have heard of any of these people
Franklin Raines - Left his role as President and CEO of Freddie Mac when he admitted to accounting “irregularities” Although he resigned suddenly, son’t worry. he was well taken care of. He had a parachute worth $240 Million to help him land. The court made him return $50 Million so he only netted $190 Million. What does he do now? Franklin Raines serves as the Chief Economic Adviser for the Obama campaign.
Tim Howard - He is the former CFO of Fannie Mae. He got caught cooking the books to make certain that Fannie Mae always showed positive earnings. According to the OIG, he failed to provide oversight. I am worried about Mr. Howard. He only received $20 million to land on his feet. He is filling his time today serving the Barak Obama campaign as an economic adviser.
Jim Johnson was another Fannie Mae Executive and Lehman Brothers principal. He got caught too!He was faulted with mismanagement and failure to provide proper oversight of Fannie Mae. He also lied about compensation the year he received $20 million in salary. Don’t worry about Jimmy. He had $28 million to help him land on his feet. His schedule has slowed down lately. He chaired the Barak Obama Vice-President Search Committee.
Obama will have good experience with the mess on Wall Street. He hired three of the main reasons for it.
ACORN Welcomes Palin’s Endorsement of Biden’s Call for Bankruptcy Protections
October 02, 2008
Statement from ACORN President Maude Hurd on Sarah Palin’s embrace of bankruptcy protections to prevent foreclosures:
“About 20 minutes into tonight’s debate, Governor Sarah Palin demonstrated bipartisan appeal in endorsing Senator Biden’s call for bankruptcy protections for primary residences. When Senator Biden called for bankruptcy shelter and suggested that Governor Palin likely opposed those protections, Gwen Ifill asked, “Governor Palin, is that so?” The Governor responded, “That is not so.”
Both Senators Biden and Obama have supported the “Helping Families Save Their Homes in Bankruptcy Act”, which would close the loophole in current federal bankruptcy law that prevents primary residences from have their mortgages restructured by federal bankruptcy judges. Currently, second homes, seventh homes, and yachts are eligible for such restructuring, but not primary residences that are being lost at a record pace in the current foreclosure crisis.
ACORN welcomes Governor Palin’s endorsement of this important provision, and hopes that this high-profile endorsement will encourage Senator McCain to change his mind and support this necessary change to assist America’s struggling homeowners.
This set up the real punchline in this story, which perfectly encapsulates not only how ignorant, but how tightly controlled by McCain operatives Palin is and will be as Vice President:
“Sarah was just being Sarah,” ACORN’s Charles Jackson told ABC News. “It’s clear from the transcript that she supported the provision that Senator Biden brought up. We’ll see if McCain’s handlers will allow her to continue to hold that position tomorrow.”
I’m with C and MK: John McCain’s a fellow we can believe in. You want facts and details 77? Check it out: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain/page/1
Hi Rufus. Thanks for agreeing, but I think you inadvertently posted the wrong column. Instead of a column on McCain written by an extremely far-left liberal like Dickinson, I bet you meant this article on Obama by a fellow democrat –http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/01/24/worrying_about_obama/
C, how embarrassing. But I totally agree with everything you’ve written. Here’s another article that shows why it’s McCain for me all the way. The country needs a man like him, and this really shows why: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/10/13/081013taco_talk_editors
Here’s another article that’s really good at showing McCain’s integrity. You can’t have someone who’s going to waiver. Like Palin said, you can’t blink. http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/john_mccain_a_tale_of_the_tape.html