Is Hussein Your Middle Name?
2008 June 28
Mark Elrod, a political science professor at Harding, is featured in a New York Times article with the headline “Obama Supporters Take His Middle Name As Their Own.” Would that be Mark Hussein Elrod?
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Here is a shot of the Library of Celsus in Ephesus:
eddy, I appreciate that you acknowledged my questions and recognized that they are “pertinent.” But you didn’t even take a stab at answering them. Why not?
Jesus never explicitly condemned homosexuality as a form of sexual immorality. The word we “think” Paul used to condemn homosexuality may not have referred to a monogamous marriage betweeen two men.
And this is typical of Christian circles, which is what Wallis’ point is about — and some of you play right into it. Christians get so caught up in government defining sexuality. Jesus clearly made a BIG deal about poverty, and many Christians could care less about it. Somehow, it doesn’t seem that our “big issues” align with God’s and that is a serious indictment against the church.
“Christians get so caught up in government defining sexuality.”
No, Anna, I think it is folks on the left who want the government to redefine sexual morality. The rest of us knew homosexuality was immoral long before the courts and the left started trying to convince us it wasn’t.
“Jesus never explicitly condemned homosexuality as a form of sexual immorality.”
And, Jesus never explicitly condemned cannibalism as a form of murder.
Anna, I think we’re going in circles.
Jesus never explicitly said the way to take care of the poor is to get enough people to vote in such a way as to forcibly take away wealth via taxation and give to the poor. That seems to be the way folks on the left want to do it. And, speaking of left and right, why do studies show the conservatives are more generous than the lefties (even after controlling for church giving)?
Don’t try to make a link between those of us who still believe homosexuality is wrong and those who hate the poor. You don’t have any clue whatsoever about to whom or what I give money.
I haven’t called you any names because you are trying to convince me Jesus thought homosexuality was a good thing.
“The word we “think” Paul used to condemn homosexuality may not have referred to a monogamous marriage betweeen two men.”
Well, whadya say, Mike? You’re the preacher here. Does Paul seem to endorse a “monogamous marriage between two men” and only have trouble with it if one of them starts tom-cattin’ around?
Help us out here.
here ya go Jim:
http://preachermike.com/2006/04/12/homosexuality
While Mike says that homosexuality is not what God intended (sin), he says that we shouldn’t be making a political agenda out of it, and in fact we should stand with those who are oppressed.
I’m not linking heterosexism with anti-poverty. And I didn’t quote Wallis, someone else did. But the point of Wallis’ quote is we devote WAY too much time talking about legislating a Christian morality on people when solidarity and support for the poor is clearly at the forefront of Christ’s call.
And by the way, killing a human being is murder, regardless of whether or not you eat the body.
And Jesus was in favor of cannibalism — he asks us to eat his body/blood in remembrance of him.
Barack “Hussein” Obama = cannibalism ??
I’m confused about this discussion…
I am a bit confused as to why you would quote Mike’s post stating homosexuality was sin. You seemed in an earlier post to suggest that the Apostle Paul only condemned a non-monogamous homosexual relationship. So, if Paul implicitly supports a monogamous homosexual relationship, do you believe Mike is wrong for saying homosexuality is not what God intended? You can’t have it both ways.
It is absolutely laughable for you to imply only one side is making this a political issue. The left has been using the courts (because they would have been unsuccessful in the legislative arena) to force social acceptance of homosexuality and they have been doing that for decades now. The right wing never made a political issue out of it until the left took it into politics via the courts and, when possible, through sympathetic legislative bodies and agencies.
I must confess I did not go back and read Mike’s article, but you say he says we should “stand with those oppressed.” I wonder, do you believe oppression includes having the belief that homosexuality is a sin?
Anna said, “I’m not linking heterosexism with anti-poverty.” Well sure you did! You don’t think that’s the first time I’ve ever seen that tactic do you? It is all over the Internet and in the popular culture debates about homosexuality. It is frequently the red herring thrown up against any who dare suggest homosexuality is sinful. The argument goes just as you made it: Christians want to rail against homosexuality, but have done a miserable job with poverty. However, many of the anti-poverty efforts around the world have a Christian base to them. So, it tends to be a baseless argument. The argument that we should redefine sexual morality because we haven’t spent enough time on poverty smells a bit fishy.
I’m just curious Anna, do you really want to take the position that something is moral unless it was specifically condemned by Jesus? You really don’t want to hang your hat on an argument like that.
Anna said, “And by the way, killing a human being is murder, regardless of whether or not you eat the body.”
Yes, Anna, that is true, but I think you may have missed the point.
Anna also said, “And Jesus was in favor of cannibalism — he asks us to eat his body/blood in remembrance of him.”
Well, you’ve got me there. Drats! That’s bad news for Uncle Virgil.
I did go back and read Mike’s post. This statement struck me: “It would help a lot if we could quit treating this like some special sin that deserves our fullest repulsion and rebuke. Sin is sin.”
I couldn’t agree more. But who is treating this “like some special sin?” Is it those who say sin is sin? Or is it those who say, “Well now wait a minute; maybe this isn’t a sin?”
I believe that homosexual activity is sinful. However, I don;t think that Christians organizing to oppose legalization of gay marriage or civil unions has advanced the cause of Christ. Regardless of the intent of those who protest gay marriage and homosexuality, the appearance is often hateful. Also, we unfortunaely live in a culture where the media often focus on shock and entertaiment value, and when there are some Christians that actually do talk about homosexuality in a hateful way, that is what will be broadcast. I think there is an overemphasis in Christian politics on homosexulity and abortion (I’m also pro life), to the detrement of other issues that are also important to Christ.
If you were to survey random Americans and ask them what do conservative Christians think about homosexuals? What kind of answer do you think you would get? What if you asked them about conservative Christian attitudes about the poor?
Amanda said, “If you were to survey random Americans and ask them what do conservative Christians think about homosexuals? What kind of answer do you think you would get? What if you asked them about conservative Christian attitudes about the poor?”
Amanda, I think there is validity in everything you have said. However, don’t underestimate the power of the media in shaping opinions about conservative Christians or conservatives in general. It has been shown that those who consider themselves conservative are more generous in their giving than those who consider themselves liberal. And yet, you would be correct about what would happen if you surveyed random Americans.
And of course, the very idea that you “consider homosexual activity is sinful” pigeon holes you in with the “homophobic, backward, ignorant” group collectively known on the left as “fundamentalists.” It is a real conundrum as to how to reach those caught up in this and not give into the immense cultural pressure to completely approve of it.
Here is a link to a Barna poll that addresses some points of your post. You may have seen it before.
http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=280
I think I’m going to destroy the earth by driving my SUV to Wal-Mart and buying items made in overseas sweatshops. Have a good evening. (See the power of the media?)
I wonder why the church gets bad pub at times. See the comments below to get an idea. I love how a simple post can turn so ugly.
Jim-
I agree that on the surface my opinion that homosexual activity is sinful may fit some people’s definition of homophobic, but that has not been my experience with gay friends of mine from graduate school. They respect my belief that their activity is sinful, with a couple of these frineds we actually talked a lot about why I believed that way.
When I first met several of these gay friends I was straight out of ACU. When they learned what university I got my undergrad at they were vary wary of me, maybe even a little scared. Each person had had at least one personal very negative experience with a Christian. When they saw that I was not like the Christians they had encountered before (and/or those shown in the media), we were able to become friends. All of that to say I think it is possible for a Chtistian to be convicted of the sinfulness of homosexual activity but still treat homosexuals in a loving way, and to have that tretment recognized and appreciated.
I understand that as a group conservatives tend to give more financially (they are also wealthier as a group), but public perception matters too. Regardless of what the true facts are, what people actually belive matters a whole lot.
Also, the media isn’t just against the conservatives. Have you seen the publicity gay pride parades get? The people in those parades are not exactly representative of the gay populaiton as a whole!
Mike, have mercy and start a new topic!
“I am a bit confused as to why you would quote Mike’s post stating homosexuality was sin.”
You asked Mike’s opinion, so I linked a previous post. Am I only supposed to blindly argue my point and not provide information that contributes to the discussion regardless of whether I agree with it?
I cited Mike, because in spite of his view, he suggests that as Christians, we shouldn’t force a secular society to play by Christian rules, and to some extent, we should support those who are oppressed. (Loosely paraphrasing).
To me, people who are homosexual and choose to enter into those relationships do not violate my rights or my heterosexual-ness. They should be allowed to do whatever they want. To deny them their own personal liberty as Americans (regardless of religious belief) is oppression.
Anna C. God bless you, but I can tell you from experience, you are fighting a loosing battle. The near sighted people you are fighting with can never see past their own beliefs to know that others have rights also, not just constitutional rights, but God given rights. If Mr. McCain were to be elected (which will never happen) the supreme court would be so packed with these narrow minded people all American’s rights would be in jeopardy.
What do you think of these names?
Steve Hussien Carrell
Tom Hussien Cruiz
Tom Hussien Hanks
Chris Hussien Rock
Dustin Hussien Hoffman
Morgan Hussien Freeman
Matt Hussien Damon
Brad Hussien Pitt
Johnny Hussien Depp
Kevin Hussien Spacey
Adam Hussien Sandler
Will Hussien Ferrell
Jack Hussien Nicholson
Samuel Hussien Jackson
Jack Hussien Black
Matthew Hussien McConaughy
Woody Hussien Herrelson
Ron Hussien Livingston
Robin Hussien Williams
Dana Hussien Carvey
Alec Hussien Baldwin
Tim Hussein Robbins
I like all those names just fine, but why aren’t there any women on that list?
A liberal supreme court thinks it’s their duty to make the laws.
Silly, the kind of giving that’s done by conservatives doesn’t count. Really caring about the poor must be trying your best do dip into somebody else’s pocket to get them to pay by force.
Obama glorifies sodomy, socialism, abortion on demand (including late term), and refuses to state that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus.
The fact that the person whose full-time job is to try to convince Christians to vote for someone like that is a member of the Lord’s Church is very dissapointing.
The second link in this post is no longer valid. The post it linked to has been removed. That’s all I’ll say about that.
Mike,
I pray for you and all the commenters/readers all the time. We are a vicious bunch, aren’t we? So concerned with Being Right instead of being righteous and loving law instead of loving our fellow humans. I’m sorry we flood your inbox and pollute the Web at large with our pointless dithering and ceaseless striving to prove a point, a point which rarely takes into consideration the people those points obscure.
If we spent more time with the women considering abortion in desperation or the homosexual brother or sister struggling with this “choice,” maybe we’d quit prooftexting so much and start being Christ to them. God forgive us for our debates.
If abortion is outlawed, only the rich get them.
Barack – the name is in the Bible. It is the man who said to prophethes Debora that he wouldn ‘t go to war without her.
Barack – the name is in the Bible. It is the man who said to prophethes Debora that he wouldn ‘t go to war without her.
Geez louise!
It plainly says in my bible that men shall not lie with men. I would think that would mean homosexuality would’nt it not? I will try and find the verse and reply back. Abortion would the same thing as murder to me.