A couple resources to help think through appropriate ways for Christians to participate in politics:
First, a discussion between Charles Colson, Greg Boyd, and Shane Claiborne. Very interesting!
Also, Shane Claiborne’s new book, Jesus for President: Politics for Ordinary Radicals
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A friend just reminded me of this great statement from Anne Lamott’s Grace (Eventually): Thoughts on Faith
I believe that every single Jesus follower must give deep and deliberate thought to their role in the political landscape of the United States. We cannnot be so naive to think it is as simple as choosing a candidate from the right or the left. Trying to follow Jesus is far more complex than that.
I have “Jesus For President” sitting on my coffee table and, besides the fact that this semester is crushing me and any time I would have had to read it, I’m not enjoying it too much. It’s not so much what is written, but the lay-out of the book. It’s almost campy with all the pictures and trying-to-be-cool inserts and such. I would much rather read what Claiborne has to say. That being said, I’m sure the words contained therein are valuable and in three weeks when the semester ends, I’ll finish it and probably have a different take.
Has anyone noticed that Shane Claiborne claims to have interrupted George Bush during his nomination acceptance speech in “1998?” He meant 2000; he got his date wrong. It is described on pages 307 to 309 of his book Irresistible Revolution. He seems to describe himself causing quite an uproar when Bush began his acceptance speech. He claims his “protest” was so great that convention attendees were forced to “drown me out by interrupting George’s first words with applause.” He says he began shouting as soon as the crowd “faded into eager silence,” which would mean any such act would have been easily picked up by all the television coverage. I have looked at tapes from the moment he describes and nothing seems to be out of the ordinary. He claims to have been pounced on by Secret Service agents a mere “twenty yards” from the stage.
If Secret Service agents and security personnel were “frantically” running around and pouncing on someone sixty feet from the Republican nominee for President, wouldn’t it have gotten some coverage?
Can anyone verify this story he tells in his book? I have read his book and this part has always bothered me. It just doesn’t quite ring true from the incorrect date to his getting close to the stage on the floor to the cops suggesting they could hold him in jail several days for “protesting.”
Does this bother anyone else?
Jim- sounds like a typical preacher story to me.
On a more serious note - I look forward to listening to the discussion - what a trio! If you’ve never heard Greg preach (all sermons are archived) - I highly recommend him. Thanks Mike!
KentF — it may be a typical preacher story, but it reminded me of Hillary being mistaken regarding whether or not someone was shooting at her.
Seriously, I would like to see some evidence for this story in his book. It may all be entirely true. I just have been unable to verify anything of it and I did take some time to look for it.
If it was 1998, could it have been then-Governor Bush accepting the party’s nomination at the Texas State Republican Convention in 1998?
I can’t believe that a date like that would have made it by the editors.
No, he specifically describes it as the Republican nomination in Philadelphia. I agree that I cannot believe it made it by the editors. I think there should have been a bit more fact-checking.
Is Claiborne yet the latest Christian deity from American evangelicals to repackage and re-market the message of Jesus? Is this important because today’s youth are bored with presentation?
Isn’t it about time we realise style over substance is over-rated? It takes a lot to shake off the Victorian influence on religious traditions, but why then can’t we just be satisfied with reading the words of Jesus from the different gospel perspectives?
And why do we have to keep idolising Christian preachers, authors, musicians, etc. Isn’t that a large part of America’s cultural problem to begin with?
Actually, I’ve been pretty impressed with the young Mr. Claiborne’s substance, thank you.
Here’s another interesting/surreal twist on working together — a Al Sharpton/Pat Robertson commercial for the environment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhmpsUMdTH8
Note the commenter on the video who said “Praying for a shark attach!”
Thanks Matt. Will get the book the next time we’re in America. Didn’t mean to sound so negative…will take note on the substance and ask more questions later.
No problem, Deb. I think I sounded a bit snippy myself! God bless.
Jim - Interesting question. Have you written Zondervan to ask? I just sent a note to the editor. I’m assuming it was just a mistake of year (since, of course, the convention was in Philadelphia in 2000). Easy to understand a writer making that mistake; sloppy job by the editor, however, of letting that slip by. I’ll let you know if I hear back from them.
Yes, I agree that simply mistaking the year is understandable — more by the writer than the editor. I have not written to Zondervan and would be interested in knowing what you find out.
Thanks.
People do not generally stand behind principles they believe are wrong. Whether I agree with my brothers and sisters in their voting (or abstaining from voting) I have to give them each the benefit of the doubt: I have to believe that each of them are doing what is appropriate to their consciences, that they are doing what they believe Jesus would do.
That’s why the ugliness that surrounds politics, even in Christian venues, makes me so sad. How I vote (or don’t) doesn’t make me more or less Christian, only my identity in Christ makes me Christian. It will, obviously, inform the things I do, but I have to believe that my brothers and sisters are also doing what they feel God would have them do. And, honestly, God can work through any candidate. It may be accomplishing “traditional” values, it may be an emphasis on social justice or it may be none of the above. God can use any aspect and any person to accomplish the things he wants to.
I don’t believe that God believes in democracy, but I believe that in the US, he works within our framework, which happens to be a form of democracy. I think we actually have to trust that regardless of who takes office, God is still bigger and in the end, his will triumphs.
I will still vote my conscience, but my God is bigger than any president or senator, and I’ll trust him to guide whomever is elected — whether or not that person is “my” candidate.
So How Would Jesus Vote?
It disturbs me that each of us is convinced that He would vote just like me. (Including me, really me.)
I’m not fully convinced that He would vote at all. Or that He doesn’t.
Romans 13:1 gives me the shivers sometimes. How does that fit in with our very American notions about democracy and our very Christian ideas about free will?
I know it matters. I know it’s worth praying about. I don’t know that I would always make the same choice that Jesus would make … or that I can’t be forgiven for it.
Personally, I still like Mike. Cope, that is; though Huckabee’s okay. (I guess Mike Cope isn’t running like he used to, and that’s worth praying about, too.)
Actually, almost anyone would do okay in the White House as far as I’m concerned - as long as it is their policy that God is in control.
Thanks for the piece on Hillary.
signed,
Church of Christ member for the Hill
Shane isn’t perfect, and neither are his books, but he is prophetic. He and other Christian Anarchists (google it) are speaking out against empire and politics and injustice, not against any particular party. In JFP, he makes the case that Christians’ allegiance to America and its political process has squelched its creativity and innovation to actually address injustices in our world.
I think he’s right.
I’m sitting this election out. I don’t believe rights will be wronged in this country just because a change of power takes place. I think the power the President (or any politician, really) holds is more than God intended humans to possess. It makes us take our eyes off the real source of life and hope and justice, Jesus, and instead invest in systems of this world. (not unlike the cries of the Israelites to God — “We want a king!”) Not to mention the task of empire being to sustain itself and bolster its economic and military might, values that are inherently non-Christian but will be espoused by any president, regardless of party. In other words, I don’t want to be pigeon-holed into choosing the lesser of two evils with my vote.
So I’m sitting out.
This message runs against the very fabric of our being as Americans and will certainly enrage folks on both sides of the aisle, but wouldn’t it be just like Jesus to upset the apple cart in such ways?
With the caveat that I have not read “Jesus for President,” a few thoughts crossed my mind when I saw the title.
I keep hearing how Christians who vote Republican have gone to far in the mixing of church and politics. Okay, so here’s my question: What do you suppose the reaction would have been if Jerry Falwell had dared to write a book with the title “Jesus for President.” Ignoring for the sake of arugment whatever content might have been in the book, I think the outcry based on the title alone would have been huge. What we have now is a guy (Claiborne), who has become a modern-day “prophet” to the politically-leftward Christians who are constantly telling us on the right to quit confusing our faith with our politics, writing a book called Jesus for President. Sorry, but I don’t think, as a Christian who happens to vote Republican, I need any lectures from the Christians on the left about mixing up my faith and my politics. I dare say some of those on the left are doing the job every bit as good as those on the right.
Finally, with regard to the Republican convention story Claiborne writes about in Irresistible Revolution, I am not simply saying he got the date wrong. I am saying the whole story, on its surface, sounds a bit fishy without any corroborating evidence for it. So far as I can tell, he doesn’t give any in the book. That’s why I keep looking for evidence that it occurred as Claiborne says it did. I do, however, love the implication he gives in the book that it was God’s providence that allowed him to interrupt George W. Bush’s acceptance speech. Again, see my point in paragraph above.
Is it really too hard to see that Claiborne is every bit as political and partisan as the ones he rebukes for being political and partisan?
Jim is right. Claiborne is as partisan as Olberman or any of the others. Partisan politics abounds. It would be nice to see a statesman emerge from all of this. Statesmen are few and far between but we sure need them today.
So what if Falwell had written JFP? The fact is he didn’t. Think about the implications of even such a title … that followers of Jesus follow Him and Him only, even if it means opposing their host empire. Falwell had as much allegiance to the American empire as any Christian leader in recent history, so I doubt he would have written a book with such a title.
Sorry, Jim, but I think you’ve got Claiborne wrong. If you poke around on the Web a bit, you’ll find that his political theory ruffles feathers among liberal Christians every bit as much as it does among the Conservative ones. What I think you’re doing is translating his pacifism and opposition to systemic injustices as characteristics of the “left,” when, in fact, it is a characteristic of Jesus.
Steve, I may be wrong, but it was not his pacifism or opposition to systemic injustices that I was basing my remarks upon. I developed my view of him from reading Irresistible Grace and noting that the preponderance of the shots he takes at politicians are those politicians who are to the right.
I think part of the problem is that those on the left translate conservative positions on economics as disregard for the poor. When the left gets a chance to fix things through collectivism, they usually wind up with unintended consequences that sometimes leave the poor in worse shape than they were before all of the compassionate policies were implemented.
The Claiborne story is totally legit. It was the 2000 RNC & he did get detained by the authorities for preaching during Bush’s acceptance speech.
As far at the partisan comment goes, at 24 years old and a full time volunteer of the non profit he co-founded I’d doubt he could afford to fly to LA for the 2000 DNC.
Faith, can you post a link to this or anything that corroborates the story as Claiborne has told it in his book? Thanks.
I suggest reading Erich Fromm’s “Escape From Freedom” and “To Have or To Be?”
Jim said:
“I think part of the problem is that those on the left translate conservative positions on economics as disregard for the poor. When the left gets a chance to fix things through collectivism, they usually wind up with unintended consequences that sometimes leave the poor in worse shape than they were before all of the compassionate policies were implemented.”
Thank you, Jim. Well said.
I don’t think Jesus would run for President, because he probably would feel bad about spending tens of millions of dollars on tv ads, newspaper ads, etc., just to get the job.
Of course, John Howard Yoder had a lot to say about Christians and politics. His is one voice that needs to be heard. And for an unorthodox take on Christianity and the larger culture, think about this.
GKB,
Would Yoder have W toilet paper?
Leland,
I dunno if he would have bought it himself, but he might have had some if his sister-in-law in Austin had given him some as a Christmas present.
New to your blog, so forgive me if you’ve alread commented on this. I recently read Tony Campolo’s Red Letter Christian, and deeply appreciated it. I tend to vote very independently, crossing party lines left and right. So, I can’t agree with his assessment of all the issues. But his basic premise is deeply convicting to me.
To sum it up, it talks a lot about how Christians can change the world. The following thoughts struck me and seemed very applicable:
“It is important to stress that for Christians, authority comes from sacrificing to meet the needs of others. As the ultimate case in point, Jesus speaks as ‘one having authority’ (Matt 7:29) He does not coerce us into yielding to His will. Instead, we come to an awareness that He has a legitimate claim to our allegiance through His sacrifices for us–especially His sacrifice on the cross. . . ”
He then gives several examples of authority earned through sacrifice, “I once heard Mother Teresa speak at a National Prayer Breakfast, which was attended by the US president, the vice president, and a host of other world leaders. She said things that many of those present did not want to hear, but everyone listened to her with great respect. She spoke strongly against abortion, even though those at the head table with her were overtly pro-choice. She spoke with authority, authority that had been earned through her sacrifices for the dying poor on the streets of Calcutta. . . I surmise that if push came to shove, more Catholics would likely have listened to Mother Teresa, who gained authority through her sacrifices, than to the Pope–regardless of all the power he wields as the head of the Vatican State (Tony Compolo, The Red Letter Christians).”
He continues later, “I contend that Christians will only have authority if they first serve the needs of others in sacrificial ways, especially the poor and oppressed. When those who hold power witness how Christians live our love–meeting the needs of others and binding up the wounds of those who have been left hurting on society’s waysides–Christians will earn the authority to speak. When Christians specifically give of their time and resources to run soup kitchens for the hungry and provide shelters for the homeless, they gain the right to be heard. When they tutor poor children and care for those with AIDS, they expand their mandate to call for change. But before they speak, Christians must demonstrate God’s love through sacrificial ministries. Sacrifice gives them the ability to be taken seriously by those who seem to be in control (Tony Campolo, The Red Letter Christian).”
Much higer standard than just casting a vote every four years.
Look at GKB rickrolling on Preachermike’s blog.
Wha?
GKB,
Perhaps
GKB,
On second thought, no I think Yoder would have considered the W TP to do violence (in his terms) to another person and he would have cordially rejected it from his relative in Austin. Just trying to keep you honest in your question for true pacifism, which in my opinion is not a worthless pursuit.
Your friend,
Me
“Politics is about compromise, and goals are mostly achieved in increments. Politics and faith are irreconcilable. The former cannot tolerate zealotry; the latter cannot tolerate compromise. This is the reason that the two when combined, become highly combustible.” -Cal Thomas, from Blinded By Might, p.118.
Two books that I think can shed some helpful light on the topic at hand are 1st, the one mentioned above, which explains the failure of the Moral Majority to effect any real and lasting change through political means and 2nd, Resident Aliens; Life in the Christian Colony, by Stanly Hauerwas. While both have been around a while, they remain relevant to us as we struggle to live as citizens of the Kingdom not of this world, yet remaining ‘resident aliens’ in a worldly kingdom.
I love Boyd and Claiborne’s ideas, commitment, and especially what seems like true humility. I read Claiborne’s first book and loved it and thoroughly enjoyed Boyd’s book “The Myth of a Christian Nation.” Our brother Lee Camp should get some royalties for the books though since Boyd quotes him like 15 times.
I dont buy into Colson’s political ideas for the most part but I love what I have heard about the prison ministry.
I think we as christians should avoid the political realm at least in traditional terms like liberal and conservative and stick to Kingdom politics of loving others in the name of Jesus and being willing to live and die so that they may find life in Him.
Preacher Mike, thanks for the link to the discussion about faith and politics. I really enjoyed the discussion. It was very similar to the dialogue that has been going on in my own head……and heart for that matter. I thought that Charles Colson, Greg Boyd, and Shane Claiborne all made very insightful and genuine points. I don’t know that I am any closer to an answer for my own discipleship, but it was a thought-provoking dialogue none the less!