ACU just changed its alcohol policy. It was the right move. The focus now will be on underage drinking and drunkenness.
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Just two weeks until the Pepperdine lectureship. I’ve gone every year since 1986. Good classes, good friends, and staggering beauty. Plus a daily run to John’s Garden for an avocado sandwich.
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My two favorite foods: avocado and bacon. (I’m including guacamole, of course, under the broad category of “avocado.”) Followed closely by fresh seafood (grouper, mahi-mahi, amberjack, snapper, etc.), a good steak, and blueberry pie.
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Next off of American Idol: Brooke.
I noticed that the Christian Chronicle has a feature story on ACU’s policy.
http://tinyurl.com/64rnlf
I too am looking forward to Pepperdine. What a wonderful break from the “real world.”
I visit my buddy, Greg England, down in Temecula and his new England Family Mortuary just before the lectures begin. Greg is a great story teller and has a daily blog, but most of all he is a good friend.
http://www.gregengland.com
A group of us from Florida have committed to getting more physically fit this year so plan to get out on the track in the mornings. Join us if you can.
Peace.
No way, Brooke stays, but Syesha has to go home. She has been really flat the last three weeks, Last night was not any better.
I voted for Brooke last night………a sympathy vote. She had a bad night, but I don’t think she should have to leave before Syesha or Jason Castro.
DU
That change for ACU was a long time coming. There are far bigger fish to fry than 21+ students having a beer off campus. I’m glad they see that.
Do you like these foods together? You are like me, when I travel to certain places, I like to eat the local cooking, especially if I cannot get it in Tennessee.
http://www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org
Does ACU’s change of policy have anything to do with the perfect compliment to a bacon and avocado sandwich?
The old rules were dead on the books, anyways. They’re just updating the policy to reality. Plus, the faculty doesn’t have to feel guilty for stopping at Pinky’s on their way home anymore. Good for them.
Jesus makes the “best” wine at the wedding-feast at Cana of Galilee, but we can’t drink it ??? I don’t think so…
If we can eliminate all drinking of alcoholic beverages because of their abuses, then we should also be able to eliminate all consumption of food because sometimes it leads to obesity…
Unfortunately, alcohol is a peg upon which many people hang their religion, and probably always will be so…
To you people in Abilene: how much of the change in policy was due to the proportion of non-CoC students attending ACU? From what I hear, a greater proportion of the student body is not affiliated with the CoC. Is that a correct assessment?
Thanks.
P.S. I agree with the change. I think C.S. Lewis described the appropriate Christian attitude toward drinking. See the following quote–
http://www.fireandknowledge.org/archives/2005/07/15/cs-lewis-on-temperance/
Kirk: I don’t know if ACU changed the policy because of an influx of non-CofC students or not. But, my experience over the last several years has been that attitudes towards alcohol are changing in churches (of Christ) as well. We recently got together with CofC friends we had not seen for many years. We were having dinner together. Apparently each of us had a discussion with our spouse in the car on the way over as to whether the other couple would be okay with us having a drink. There was a time when that wouldn’t have even been a consideration. Ironically, they thought for sure we wouldn’t be all right with it. We used to drink when they knew us all those years ago, they just didn’t know it.
Anyway, I’m glad ACU changed their policy. Focusing on responsible drinking seems to me to be a more realistic goal (and not unbiblical).
No big deal! We had already adopted that policy back in 1979, when I was there. The sad part is how many Sing Songs my fellow Subbers had to miss for this to take place.
That’s a great change at ACU. I went to Harding and the “no alcohol ever because it’s gonna send you straight to hell” policy of theirs drove me crazy. I was always younger than 21 while a student at Harding, so it wasn’t an issue for me. But it made me mad anyway that they would bind people in such a legalistic way. I don’t know why they can’t figure out that drunkenness, not alcohol is a sin. I doubt Harding will EVER follow ACU’s lead on this.
Wow…guess I’m old school. I think the fact that ACU is changing its policy on alcohol is sad. Of course, when a good number of the faculty, staff and administration can been seen at Pinkie’s, I guess it’s hard to tell 21+ aged students they can’t stop at Allsup’s for a cold beverage.
And kudo’s to charlie s. — at least all those Sub T beer bashes will be within the confine of the rules now…
CC,
Yes, especially those at Spring Break at South Padre Island!
I applaud ACU’s decision. LCU went a similar route a few years ago. I agree with the sentiment that HU will never change.
This issue is too often treated as a black-and-white issue. In fact, the principles found in Romans 14, which historically formed the basis for various campus alcohol policies, are very nuanced. It is a sign of spiritual maturity for the leadership of these institutions to recognize it as such, and act in a way that honors both the letter and the spirit of Paul’s teachings.
Speaking as an ACU faculty member, here’s the great spiritual benefit of ACU’s new policy.
We all knew students were drinking, but our ability to address the issue (e.g., discussions about choices and moderation) were hamstrung as the Student Code of Conduct strictly prohibited all drinking. Consequently, we couldn’t have an honest discussion about alcohol use and abuse without tacitly sending the signal that it was okay to violate the behavior code. Everyone knew the behavior code was being violated but the issue couldn’t be directly addressed. All conversations about alcohol had this “wink wink” facet to them which undermined the seriousness and gravity of the issues under discussion. This was, from a spiritual formation stance, problematic.
The new policy now allows discussion about moderation and Christian responsibility to take place in a much more honest and forthright manner. In my eyes this is a very important step forward, from a spiritual vantage, for ACU.
In short, the main gain here isn’t about ACU getting out of the business of deciding who is “grown up” or not (e.g., Could the 40 year old MDiv student drink wine at an Italian restaurant?). Nor is it about ACU getting out of the business of defining sinfulness in ways that are parochial and culture-bound. Rather, the gain is that a very important spiritual formation conversation that was once covert has now become overt. For me, this change should make “conservative” parents MORE likely to send their children to ACU, not less. Rather than having these conversations secretly and only with their peers, I would want my children at ACU having these conversations out-front and alongside people of wisdom.
If Jesus can have a drink after a tough day of teaching and counseling, why can’t the staff at ACU? I don’t think that the new policy condones drinking or drukenness at all. Rather, I believe that ACU is being realistic about how far the “long arm of the law” can reach. The policy also reflects ACU’s desire for its students, especially those 21+, to be reponsible for their behavior as adult disciples.
Wonderful comment by RB, along with several others. So thankful for this, & believe God is blessing this kind of wisdom.
I wish we had handled the drinking issue differently as parents. Maybe we could have taught our children responsible drinking by having a beer or glass of wine occasionally at home instead of them never seeing us have a drink until they were college age. I applaud ACU for their decision. Lets don’t focus on the occasional drink, but the reckless abuse of it.
Why isn’t anyone addressing the REAL issue here? Mike, you have an unholy love for avocados and I’m of the opinion that you need an intervention. It’s for your own good. The guacamole has got to go.
RB - Well said, my friend.
Quiara - Knowing where you live, I consider it possible that you’ve never had really good guacamole. If you’ve squeezed it out of a plastic bag and it had the consistency of Play-Doh, that’s not the real thing!!
Psalm 104:14-15
He makes grass grow for the cattle,
and plants for man to cultivate—
bringing forth food from the earth:
wine that gladdens the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine,
and bread that sustains his heart.
Deuteronomy 14: 22-26
22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year. 23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the LORD your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the LORD your God always. 24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the LORD your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the LORD will choose to put his Name is so far away), 25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice.
Why should students under 21 be legalistically told not to drink?
Eddy–because it’s illegal for people under 21 to drink in America. So it’s not really legalistic so much as it is illegal.
Cheryl,
I don’t remember reading about Jesus having a glass of wine after a tough day. He had wine, but hat was never the reason described.
Alcohol is not evil, and it is not wrong to drink. My concern is that there is zero history of college kids that drink making good decisions about drinking responsibly. This is for those that already are drinking. Most 21 year olds are not consulting with a wine steward about what goes best with lasagna, fish, or steak.
10,000 kids in the world starved to death while we were having this conversation.
There’s an excellentletter to the editor in today’s Abilene paper by Dr. Money.
Do I have the right to tell a 20-year old Christian to not do what Jesus approved?
With all due respect, I think the letter to the editor contradicts itself about 12 times.
After this issue is discussed and all the talking is finished, all I see is one more reason for my children to NOT consider a Christian education.
My parents never made alcohol taboo in our lives. There was no mystery, no enigma — and when I turned 21, I felt no driving need to go out and experience it as an adventure into the dangerous or unknown in regards to alcohol. In my upbringing, it was looked at amorally. I do not mean “immorally;” I literally mean it was considered outside of a moral context. Alcohol itself is neither good nor bad. The use of alcohol can be either — the act of imbibing an alcoholic beverage tells me nothing of the character of the drinker. The abuse of it is always bad. It seems a simplistic approach, but it also seems (to me) to be effective.
I agree with ACU’s move; I think when things are brought out of darkness and into light, responsible choices are more likely.
I started drinking from the moment I hit college. I don’t ever recall any of my friends/acquaintances having one glass of wine or one beer…we all drank to excess and we all drove under the influence on more than one occasion. Moderation wasn’t part of the equation. Everything we engaged in was to excess. Not much has changed binge drinking, drugs of all types are still part of the rite of passage in college/post college life.
I don’t think we can isolate our children - certainly sending a child to a Christian university doesn’t protect them from “the dangers of the world” - I enjoyed? the best parties while at a Christian university.
The other side of “partying” is the story of Herod and the death of John the Baptist. If Herod had not been drunk - he became drunk by drinking, would he have made and carried out the promise he made to his wife’s daughter?
I drank and more often than not drank until I was drunk. I never attended a party where people came to drink “just one” of anything. The choices I made ‘under the influence’ were seldom choices I would have made otherwise.
We have an occasional glass of wine - our child has seen us drinking wine in our home. Perhaps due to my upbringing (no drinking ever for any reason, ever) I rejected my parents teaching. I now understand why my parents taught us as they did. There were many alcoholics in our family. They saw the destructive side of drinking to excess.
We need to make this topic part of our conversation with our children long before they attend any university. It’s a serious topic. Quoting a few passages of scripture about wine and/or Jesus turning water into wine doesn’t necessarily square with what goes on in our society in regard to drinking.
One of the fruits of the Spirit is self control. Drinking/self control. Perhaps a starting place?
“After this issue is discussed and all the talking is finished, all I see is one more reason for my children to NOT consider a Christian education.”
Rick - what reason would that be?
WOW!! I agree with sjpk. College kids don’t just have “one” drink. My concern is ACU will become so much like the world, so tolerant, that it will no longer be a “unique” experience for my children. I have heard talk of co-ed dorms and drifting away from chapel. If so, we may as well be AU ~ Abilene’s little own UT~
Before you all jump down my throat~ you can have your opinion and I can have mine. Just read the comments on reporternews.com, the students are elated and not just about have “one” beer, they are excited about partying it up. Sad, but true.
Eddy,
Do you have the right? If you are a parent or a mentor, ABSOLUTELY! A 20 year old is breaking the law by drinking. That’s Biblical. Drinking is not wrong. I go back to my original statement: There are zero, ZERO 21 year olds that currently drink that do it responsibly. It is not ACU’s job to ensure a parent their children will not drink. It was comforting to mine, I am sure, that I would have been harshly and fairly dealt with by breaking that rule. Now I guess we have to have a conversation about how consequences are unfair…Gee I hope not.
Victor, I wonder how many 18 year olds started on the road to alcoholism at Christian colleges last weekend? Not C of C colleges; Christian colleges. I guess I’m naive enough to think some could be positively influenced by a rule that implies “we just don’t need to do that here.”
Chris Field …
See Ann’s comment above for further explanation.
That’s about as well as I can say it.
Chris - I appreciate your passion but I think you are vastly overstating your position when you say there are zero 21 year olds that drink responsibly. Neither you nor I actually know what that percentage would be but saying with such certainty that it is zero is misleading.
Rick - It’s just hard for me to imagine that a decision like this would somehow outweigh all of the good things ACU has to offer.
Any other areas where I should tell my 20 year old to not do what Jesus approved? Do the laws of Texas have more authority than the approval of Jesus?
Chris Field - Talk about being legalistic (with Chris above). I think you realize he made his point, it was a great point, and that was the only way you could dispute it?
As for college, I have no connection at all to ACU. I was, however, thinking about another Christian university which, in the next decade, will likely (and sadly) follow ACU’s lead on this.
My point is why pay more for the same thing you get at a secular university?
Alas, so much for the hope that adults could have a civil discussion about this issue.
sjpk wrote, “One of the fruits of the Spirit is self control. Drinking/self control. Perhaps a starting place?”
Why don’t we start with the fellowship meal after worship on Sunday, or the buffet line at the all-you-can-eat diner? Self-control is not just about drinking, you know.
It seems that several people are saying that this new policy is putting ACU down the road to losing its Christian heritage or that this policy means there is no difference between ACU (or Christian colleges) and secular colleges. I graduated from ACU 8 years ago, and taught there for three years. I got my masters at a state school and there are huge differences between ACU and secular universities. At ACU a student has to seek out drinking buddies, that is certainly not the case at secular schools where it seems like every occasion is an occasion to party and drink. At the secular schools I attended profs cursed regularly in lectures, one prof was an ex stripper and demonstrated a lap dance in class, another prof regularly wore a sports bra and jeans to class, students had sex in their dorm rooms while roomates tried to sleep in the same room, I could go on and on…. While ACU may not be as conservative as some would like, it is still a VERY different environment than a secular university.
Rick - I don’t know that I would call that legalism but maybe that’s just me. I think it is only fair to point out that Chris used a completely made up statistic (not once but twice) to try and validate his argument. Is that legalism?
To Eddy: Getting an arrest record in Texas is a real good reason not to drink until you’re 21.
There are zero, ZERO 21 year olds that currently drink that do it responsibly.
If that is true, no one should get baptized before the age of 21. If you can’t make autonomous and basic life choices like this then making the biggest choice of all seems beyond our volitional capabilities. Baptism should happen after baccalaureate graduation.
As a father of two ACU graduates, I can tell you that this school offers far more than any other school, public or private. My sons thrived here mainly because of the administration’s courage to make decisions that benefit both the student and the institution. In contrast to other “Christian” universities, ACU gave our sons the freedom and guidance to use their heads and hearts when applying godly principles for the good of mankind. They both are productive, generous, independent, intelligent, good citizens who enjoy an occasional Shiner Bock with their dad. Face it, without such courageous, forward thinking, Spirit-led univerisities like ACU, more of our children will lost to traps of secular living that most private and public schools propagate.
It’s sad…but I agree with Ann. ACU is slowly losing its identity as a Christian university (in my opinion). I think the alcohol issue is just another step by the Board and the Administration to focus more on the “U” and less on the “C”. I don’t want my alma mater to become another TCU or SMU - colleges founded on Christian principles that have forgotten their first love. But if you’ve checked out Chapel lately, it’s pretty obvious that things have changed since the late 80’s.
Didn’t realize a discussion of avocado and bacon would lead to this! (ha!)
First, I agree with RB’s comment — that this new policy simply creates a realistic and serious environment for discussing alcohol.
Second, if we’re so worried about this policy change at ACU, then I think it speaks volumes about some Christians’ lack of parenting skills. So many parents send their kids off to a Christian school, expecting the school to do the parenting that they failed to do. During my years at ACU, I saw many kids get into trouble. It wasn’t ACU’s fault — ACU can make all the rules it wants, but if effective parenting didn’t start at an early age at home, then whatever ACU does will make no difference. ACU has a great ability to enhance the spiritual lives of people, but for the most part, they can only build on an existing foundation.
I also know of ZERO 21-year-olds (and I know many) who drink responsibly. I’m guessing you know of some. I’d like to meet them.
“My sons thrived here mainly because of the administration’s courage to make decisions that benefit both the student and the institution.”
In what way, exactly, is this decision to the BENEFIT of both the student and the institution?
Daniel,
I take great exception with the insinuation that I (we) am lacking in parenting skills.
Would you call it bad parenting skills if a parent was upset because, even after educating their child about the immorality and dangers of sex outside of marriage, the CHRISTIAN university their child was attending decided to put condom machines directly across the street from campus?
Laugh if you want. There is absolutely no difference than what this policy is saying to students.
Very well said Daniel. Just amazes me how far some people leap because of a much-needed wording change to a rule written decades ago.
Bottom line is - if you want your kid to go to a cofC U with required daily chapel, with rules written rigidly to your religious code and you want your child surrounded onl by homogenous cofC’rs - send them elsewhere. And, yes, I know many are doing just that.
I vote for Rick’s idea!
I don’t believe that ACU’s change will lead to more drinking or less responsible drinking — because the fact is, the drinking (responsible and otherwise) is already there. All they’ve done is remove the appearance of punishment for something that is neither illegal or immoral. It’s an act of honesty and seems to me to be the desire of an institution seeking to walk alongside the students in all things they encounter rather than to drive them to the shadows to do (without the benefit of guidance or insight) what many of them are doing anyhow.
How is it a bad thing to bring things into the light?
I was responsible at 21 as were many of my friends. I think some of you are too far away from 21 to remember the difference between a 21 year old and an 18 or 16 year old!
I know people who were married and having kids at 21, and NO not because they HAD TO! But if you don’t think 21 is the right age, take it up with the state of Texas, not ACU. Texas said 21 was the legal drinking age, not ACU. I don’t think this policy change is significant. In all my time at and around ACU I never remember hearing of a 21 year old who was busted for drinking responsibly…but I did know of several who were younger who were caught drinking. Most of them came to ACU drinking. Most of them drank after being caught. Many of them still drink. I don’t think ACU had much affect of their consumption of alcohol. ACU is no more like UT because it finally updated the rule book to reflect what has in actuality been practiced for years.
This blog has the biggest group of nick-picker commenters than any I have ever seen! Seriously. It is sad how fast the discussion can go down hill. Is there any topic that Mike could blog about that someone wouldn’t take exception too and comment on the “Sad state of what ACU, CofC’s, Abilene or the world in general is coming to?” I guess not.
Chris Field,
I did not “make up a statistic. I said I know of zero. My point is the same rules apply at UT regarding underage drinking. I feel like if you don’t get that, we have to agree to disagree. It is immorral to break laws, do we have to argue about that?
I drink socially, I’m also 40. When I was 19, I did not drink responsibly. I am on college campuses a lot as a speaker for business schools and substance abuse IS A PROBLEM IN UNIVERSITY SETTINGS. That, Chris Field, is not a made up statistic either. If you like to drink, have at it. If you think the rule change is needed to further the Kingdom, super. I am just having trouble with it.
I hope you will re-read my post. Alcohol is not evil, wrong or immoral in itself. There are not 20 year olds that have a glass of wine at Lyle Land and Cattle company to enhance their steak. Like the song says…”When I have one, I have thirteen.”
Chris — this is what you said:
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Alcohol is not evil, and it is not wrong to drink. My concern is that there is zero history of college kids that drink making good decisions about drinking responsibly.
_________________
Feel free to edit or retract - but that’s what you said. Read SG’s post above yours - pretty much blows you “zero” stat out of the water.
Rick - wow, just wow. Dr. Money’s change in wording is the same as setting up a condom machine across the street….Did I say wow? I’m also laughing as I say wow. The university you’re looking for does not exist on this globe.
Kirk: You’re right, it is an adult discussion and today’s topic is: drinking. Church potlucks certainly deserve their day in court (or on the blog).
I had a lot to learn about self control in those days and still do…drinking aside. We’re quick to list others vices and how ‘they’ are out of control. Harder still is looking at myself and admitting those areas in my life that I have chosen not to control. My tongue will get me in far greater trouble than a bottle of wine.
It’s good to have this forum. As for ACU’s policy change, it could be the best thing - bringing to light what everyone knows is going on - and dealing with the seriousness of drunkeness etc. God created wine by giving us the fruit and the mind to produce it - and at the same time He said do not get drunk on wine. I believe that’s where self control comes in.
Mike - I sense you get great pleasure in bringin these discussions to the table - while eating guacamole.
Kent, the fact that you say “wow” wows me.
Here’s another one for you:
I would assume there are ACU students who have had an abortion. I would assume there are ACU faculty members (and administrators) who realize this fact. Since it is not illegal, why not have a special bus that runs right past the condom machine (that should have been used) and on to the abortion clinic.
After all, 1) it’s legal; 2) students are doing it; 3) everyone knows it. As Quiara said before, it’s an act of honesty.
My point is … in 2008, it became OK in the administration and board’s eyes to ENCOURAGE legal drinking. What will it be in 2011 … or 2014 … you get the point.
One reason I don’t blog here often ~ all is well as long as you agree, but when someone happens to disagree “watch out”. Christian Chronicle has an interesting story with a blog from an ACU grad who feels like I do. (or am I allowed to have MY OWN opinion on here without being labeled “difficult”)
I just don’t know how going from 20 to 21 makes you able to suddenly “drink responsibly”. Those I knew at ACU who drank (and many were over 21) were not just having a beer with a burger, they were doing it to get wasted.
Again, read the optimist comments, the reporter news comments, students are elated!
I am jumping into this discussion with much trepidation. I work with these students every day and I love them. I see their strengths and their weaknesses. I see them at their lowest more often than at their best but that is the nature of my work. They are for the most part deep thinking and spiritually searching almost adults. I am standing behind this decision at ACU for many reasons. I believe it will allow us to enter into discussion with students and allow students to bring things out into the light without being afraid of punishment. I think this will allow us to walk beside them and do it a very real way. It will no longer be about the surface or the image but about a deep walk with Jesus…a chance to find out who we are ourselves and they are from way deep inside….not just what it looks like from the outside. We should want to shape them from their very cores. I am already having these discussions with students and I want more. These kids are amazing and we need to trust them and trust God with their spiritual journeys.
I am astonished that almost everyone responding seems to think that drinking (at least in moderation) is a fine and dandy thing to do. Alcohol is a drug, it is highly addictive and for some people there is no “safe” amount. Even a moderate amount impairs judgement. If you drink, you risk becoming an alcoholic. Alcohol is evil–it destroys lives, breaks up families, contributes to more vehicle fatalities than any other drug. It is a major factor in this nation’s epidemic of domestic violence.
Look on the websites of the American Medical Association or any of the major health foundations–cancer, stroke, heart, women’s health–they all say “If you don’t drink, don’t start.”
Don’t any of you have a friend or family member who struggles with alcohol addiction? Did that person really intend to become an alcoholic? Does anyone?
I have to agree with LJ.
Rick,
Your entry equating abortion and sex outside of marriage with drinking just doesn’t fly. The taking of an innocent life and sex outside of marriage are both sinful acts…drinking is not. The Bible teaches moderation in drinking not abstinence. It does teach abstinence where murder and sex outside marriage are concerned! I don’t think ACU is encouraging legal drinking and I think they are continuing to discourage underage and irresponsible drinking.
Ann you are allowed to have your own opinion as is everyone else. I really enjoy this blog because of the diversity. I did read all the comments you mentioned but I guess I didn’t see the elation from the students you did. Many agreed with the decision but I don’t think that they will take that decision and suddenly decide to start drinking. There are many students at ACU who don’t drink, many who drink responsibly and many who will continue to break the rules as they always have. I am hoping that students will feel more freedom to discuss this issue now because that is a big and healthy step in my opinion.
Julie thank you for posting. As a mother of an ACU freshman I am thankful for you and those like you who are willing to participate in my child’s journey…thank you.
Why do people drink beer instead of iced tea or coke? Or why don’t people drink virgin margaritas as opposed to the one’s with alcohol?
They do it to cope with stress. They use it as a legal tranquilizer. Drinking one or two at the end of the day relieves stress. I’ll admit it does work great!
It’s worked too great for me. I can learn to face my stress and not drink it away. I have done enough stupid ass things medicating stress and depression 1,2,..6,..10 beers at a time and I’m forty. Age is not the issue.
We live in a world where have no margins and as a result become overwhelmed. Alcohol is the easy way out.
sjpk, I just had to respond to your comment. I know on a very personal level what harm alcohol can do. I grew up with an alcoholic father. I am still carrying around that heavy luggage. But that luggage has also reminded me that I can’t ignore it and live in my own little world where alcohol doesn’t exist. It has to be out in the light and talked about and used responsibly in front of our children. We have to model it and live it with them. If they do it behind our backs, it will be done the way that their peers are doing it and I know that is not good. I have seen alcohol consumption modeled poorly…getting drunk at the neighborhood pool party and making a loud scene, talking about drinking often as if it the only fun thing to do, and drinking daily in order to make through the week…and the children of those families have also been the ones to drink excessively in college and their parents have supported that behavior. I think that there is a different model. I also understand someone staying away from alcohol because of their background. I think that the new policy at ACU will open doors for those discussions and I believe that is healthy. I think that this world could use a few more healthy followers of Jesus.
So Julie, why do we as a people drink?
I for one have modeled how not to drink for my children. I am now filling in the hole I dug, thankfully without physically harming anyone but my liver.
I know why I drink and its not because I like it better than coke or iced tea, It’s because it gives me a buzz and I like it. I like the way it removes my grief, my pain, my depression (know its a depressant, no need to tell me) and my anxiety.
I liked it all the way into a problem.
Jesus didn’t drink the wine at Cana get on his metallic donkey and plow it into the back of caravan going 40 KPH on the on the Via Della Rosa. So we can cut the Jesus drank crap as our model.
Julie,
“I think that this world could use a few more healthy followers of Jesus.” How about healthy livers.
To Not Julie,
Drinking responsibly means getting screwed being the designated driver while your friends get plowed. Pop the damn bubble and wake up for God’s sake
Leland has hit the nail on the head in his usual no holds barred style. People for the most part do not drink because they enjoy the wonderful taste or how refreshing it is. They drink to get high. Sorry folks, quit kidding yourselves. As someone who has abused alcohol in the past I can assure you I would have had no interest in drinking if not for the buzz. Non-alcohol beer sells like crazy doesn’t it?
This conversation has evolved past ACU’s decision into why Christians feel the need to become as worldly as possible. Yes, it’s legal. But that doesn’t make it wise.
Leave it up to us completely self-absorbed Westerners to go ballistic over a glass of wine or a beer. It’s like no one has even bothered to read Dr. Money’s comments.
Yes, ACU is encouraging people to get drunk and have sex - lots of it and all the time. Chapel will be replaced Monday with an all-day beer-bong fest in Moody with kegs on tap at every card swipe point, followed by free porn in the Teague center. Please come - and bring a covered dish.
Plain and simple, there’s nothing positive for anyone as far as this policy change goes.
And yes, Lee Ann, this “policy change” is encouraging kids to drink.
Steve, Sr. - Thanks. I guess I speak mostly from your perspective: as the parent of one who went through ACU a few years ago and of one who will likely go there in a few more years.
My final comment on this:
If kids want to drink, they will drink no matter the ACU handbook says about it. It’s really as simple as that.
Chris - You’re right. I’ve lived near Christian university campuses since 1984. In both places, alcohol abuse has been a problem.
This new policy shifts the focus in a way that allows the administration and faculty to actually talk about it openly.
As I said in the original post, it was the right move.
Plain and simple, there’s nothing positive for anyone as far as this policy change goes.
Rick,
I understand your strong feelings here, but I wonder if a black & white dogmatic stance misses much of what we are struggling with on this campus. A few observations:
Strictly prohibiting alcohol use for 21+ students was problematic on both normative and descriptive grounds. From a normative stance, the bible doesn’t prohibit drinking, only drunkenness. Thus, the prohibitions were difficult to defend on Christian/biblical/exegetical grounds. Our students are good enough bible scholars to smell the whiff of something “extra-Biblical” going on here and they resented it, on biblical grounds. Descriptively, many 21+ were drinking anyway. And, as I said above, this made it difficult to address the issue openly and in a forthright manner.
On a different note, removing a prohibition and “encouraging” are two different things. What everyone will not be able to see, unless you live with us, will be the intensive warnings, cautions and difficult exchanges that will happen in the classroom, in chapel, and in student life venues regarding this issue. If one could participate in all those conversations one would not see a form of “encouragement” of any kind.
On a still different note, I think it is important not to conflate the adjective “Christian” with a University’s function as in loco parentis. These are two different things although they can be related. ACU’s policy is less about being “Christian” than it is about restructuring its parental function in relation to the students. Parents of prospective students may want stronger in loco parentis functions from a University, but this issue isn’t about a school being “Christian” or not. And let me add, speaking as a person who works with college students on a daily basis, there is a growing alienation in this generation in the face of a strong in loco parentis school. They feel demeaned and insulted, as if they are being treated as little children. This frustration boils over into rebellion and a rejection of the values of the school. In short, in loco parentis is more and more producing the exact opposite effects we are seeking to produce.
Finally, let’s all think about the View of the College Student sitting behind many of the remarks being made here. Many here are expressing a Low View: College students lack self-control, judgment and function as hedonists. Others, myself among them, have a Higher View: I think college students are mature adults who can, when treated with conversation rather than rules, respond with grace and dignity. ACU is seeking to work with the Higher View rather than the Lower View. We think our students will respond.
Dad - We’ll have a Sam Adams when you’re here for the Red Sox game in May! Looking forward to it…
Not Dad -
My guess is that ACU will be more vigilant after this policy amendment to seek out and help underage drinkers off campus. For of-age students, it takes the monkey off their backs with regard to drinking at ACU. As many have said, it opens up a dialog on campus that previously was taboo.
This comment thread really reflects the mindset of Baby Boomer Christians toward drinking, so it must be taken with a grain of salt. Truth is, my peers (twentysomethings) view drinking in a completely different light. Has a Christian twentysomething every had too much alcohol? Of course! I’m sure a few Christian twentysomethings have also had a plateful too many at the church pot-luck as well. That doesn’t mean we don’t eat or go to pot-lucks…
While the prevailing viewpoint of many Christian Boomers toward drinking is abstinence, the prevailing viewpoint of younger Christians is moderation. Abstaining from alcohol is supported by Scripture and Christian history. So is enjoying fine-tasting alcoholic drinks in moderation. We must learn to live in this tension and not demonize those who think differently.
My last comment as well:
RB, I appreciate your posts and your feelings on this.
However, I strongly disagree with the overriding sentiment that something good is going to come from this policy change. Did anyone notice the breakout box on, I believe it was next to the original newspaper story? It contained a snapshot of very telling statistics of what really goes on with drinking on and around college campuses.
Those statistics are being ignored here.
The college students who might be genetically predisposed to alcoholism are now being told by Christian college administrators that, as long as they’re 21, a little is fine.
That is encouraging students to drink alcohol, there’s no way to possibly twist that.
I’m still waiting for Steve Sr. to explain to me the BENEFIT of this policy change.
I’m still waiting for anyone on this forum to explain what GOOD is going to come of this.
As I said before, the reasons I might encourage one of my children to attend a Christian college are getting fewer by the day.
“As I said before, the reasons I might encourage one of my children to attend a Christian college are getting fewer by the day.”
Rick: I can tell by your tone that there is nothing to be said to move you off your position. So, wear it well. You are free to send your children to any college you desire. I wish them the best.
My position is that there was (and is) no better college in America for MY children than Abilene Christian. Three bachelors degrees (counting our daughter-in-law’s), one masters from ACU, two great adult sons and one awesome d-i-l confirm that decision.
How ’bout those Dallas Stars!!! (just trying to break the monotony - gee, I hope I spelled that correctly).
I currently have a 21-year-old attending ACU–I’m not about to be distracted from this conversation by the Stars or by Mormons or by high gasoline prices. I’m not ready to move on from this conversation. The April 11th article in the Reporter-News quotes Dr. Jean-Noel Thompson as saying “the university has often failed to broach the subject and educate students on the hazards of drinking” and that changing the policy will open “a window of opportunity to address it and be authentic in our approach.” What will changing the policy allow the university to say that is not already being said?
Dr. Beck, when you say, “what everyone will not be able to see…will be the intensive warnings, cautions and difficults exchanges that will happen…”, are you saying that those things aren’t being said now and haven’t been said in the past?
Again, what exactly will the policy change allow to be said that can’t be said without changing the policy?
LJ - let me copy RB’s first comment long ago back down here for you to read:
_______________________
Speaking as an ACU faculty member, here’s the great spiritual benefit of ACU’s new policy.
We all knew students were drinking, but our ability to address the issue (e.g., discussions about choices and moderation) were hamstrung as the Student Code of Conduct strictly prohibited all drinking. Consequently, we couldn’t have an honest discussion about alcohol use and abuse without tacitly sending the signal that it was okay to violate the behavior code. Everyone knew the behavior code was being violated but the issue couldn’t be directly addressed. All conversations about alcohol had this “wink wink” facet to them which undermined the seriousness and gravity of the issues under discussion. This was, from a spiritual formation stance, problematic.
The new policy now allows discussion about moderation and Christian responsibility to take place in a much more honest and forthright manner. In my eyes this is a very important step forward, from a spiritual vantage, for ACU.
_____________________
As the parent of an almost 21 year old ACU junior - I applaud RB’s stance on this decision, and the decision itself. I have never had more faith in the faculty, staff and administration to connect with my child and provide a Christian learning environment.
LJ,
I appreciate your seeking honest answers and rationales. All I can do is speak about where I find the wisdom in this decision. Yet I can only speak from my narrow perspective.
As a response, I thank KentF for reposting what I wrote earlier. That goes to the gist of it as I’ll elaborate shortly.
What I’m about to write might be lengthy, I apologize for that.
To begin, some preliminaries.
First, my views on this issue are student-focused. Much of this conversation has really been about the tensions between ACU and the CoC. I appreciate those conversations and understand them, but my interests are really about helping our students.
Second, we must recognize that this is a very complicated issue. Thus, I’d call on us all to eschew simplistic characterizations, formulations, judgments and recommendations. It truly is difficult to know how best to deal with alcohol in a generation increasingly using it. There are advantages to the old policy as well as disadvantages. Similarly, there are advantages and disadvantages to the new policy. No move here is fully adequate. That is why this issue is controversial. Everyone is making good points. Consequently, what I expect out of conversation partners in this exchange is a degree of circumspection, a willingness to recognize that the path forward isn’t so clear cut and that different choices can each embody wisdom.
Along these lines, my hope is that people will understand that the hearts of the faculty, staff, and administration are fully wrapped up in the good of our students. We live and breathe for our students. We counsel them, cry with them, and bleed with them. This is what ACU stands for, as does all our sister schools. Our schools may vary in many ways, but at our core we are Christ-followers. We love sacrificially. Thus my hope is that people who disagree with this policy change can allow themselves to see that our motives are Kingdom-driven, despite our disagreements. If we demonize each other we have failed our Lord.
Let me now get to your question: What is the good of this policy? How does this policy change the conversation for the better?
The good of the change is best seen by trying to imagine yourself in a mentoring relationship with the student body. Let me give an example from my own experience.
Last year, prior to Spring Break, I was asked to participate in a Chapel Forum regarding making “Good Choices.” Obviously, we were concerned about the choices students would make during Spring Break. The focus, as you might expect, was sexuality and alcohol use.
Theses discussions on campus are often framed as “conversations,” where the students are set up to expect give and take and answers to tough questions. However, under the old policy the “conversation” about alcohol was awkward and, at times, counter-productive. Here is why:
Every student in the audience has signed an agreement to abide by the Code Conduct. We all know that. And we also know that many of them are violating that agreement. Rhetorically, I have only two options at this point.
First, I could just firmly say the following: “The issue is simple: You signed an agreement to abide by the Code of Conduct. Thus, we expect you to abide by it.”
This is certainly one way to go about it. And it is legitimate, ethically speaking. The trouble is that 1.) It’s not very conversational, 2.) It comes off as bullying and coercive, 3.) It isn’t very persuasive, 4.) Fails to recognize that rules are ineffective ways of changing hearts, and 5.) Offers no recommendations to those who are drinking on how to make better choices while drinking.
So, the second approach would be to recognize the reality of the situation and overtly discuss the ongoing drinking: “I know many of you are going to be drinking during Spring Break. Let’s talk about how to make better choices.”
The trouble with this second approach is that I’ve just undercut the Code of Conduct and the agreement the students made to abide by it. I’m sending a mixed message. In short, I’ve just undermined the moral authority of the University.
Summarizing, I hope you can see that “conversations” under the old policy were non-optimal for a variety of reasons. Particularly, when some faculty chose rhetorical approach #1 and others took approach #2. That left the students wholly confused and made the faculty look like the Three Stooges on this very important topic.
So, in the end, here is how I think the new polity helps us here at ACU:
First, the “enforcer” here is the State of Texas. That is, if you are caught drinking under 21 then you are doing something illegal rather than “immoral.” The “heavy” here in no longer ACU, but the State. Rhetorically, this allows ACU to both align with the consensus of the nation (i.e., we aren’t just asking this of you because we are some crazy fundamentalist Christian group) while stepping aside as the judge and jury as to the rightness or wrongness of the act.
Second, we can now recognize the fact that some students are making choices to legally drink. Thus, as we talk to these students the underclassmen can listen in and learn. We can have upperclassmen discuss in front of the student body how they have made some very bad choices and the consequences that befell them. And all this can now take place without undercutting the Code of Conduct and sending mixed messages as was being done under the old policy.
To conclude, a person could judge that these gains do not offset the risks. But let us recognize that there is already enormous damage being done on our campus as elsewhere. We think this new policy positions us to be in a better position to fight this battle. By aligning our policy with the state laws we are now able to enforce the Code more consistently and with harsher penalties. Further, these actions are now coupled with a true conversation unfettered by the moral ambiguities and inconsistencies inherent in the old policy. I, personally, see this as a good move. A moral and Christian move. I could be wrong and this change may fail. But I’m eager, along with my colleagues, to renew the fight on this different terrain to see if God might do a great work among us. This, I hope, is the prayer we all share.
I am coming in here way late but I wanted to state that I went to a State University for my undergraduate degree. I marched in the band there for 4 years. I had opportunities not just to drink but to drink to drunkeness on many occasions. I am 37 years old and have never been drunk in my life. I had some friends that when we all turned 21 we did some light drinking, always in someones apartment and no driving was required. None of us ever drank more than 2 drinks in these settings. So yes, 21 year olds can be responsible and drink responsibly at a secular school so I know it can be done at a Christian school also.
I went to ACU for my graduate degree. Drinking was not an issue with me or my peers there. What I did get at ACU were professors that were open to Spiritual discussions. There are prayer rooms on campus that you can go to at any time to pray, meditate, or be quiet with God. I could go to a professor’s office and spend time crying through struggles I was having academically and spiritually. I never would have done that with a professor at my undergraduate school. So yes, there are differences in state schools and Christian schools. There are reasons other than this policy to send your child to ACU. But be aware that students will find what they are looking for whether at a State School or Christian School so unless you parent your children while you have them then don’t expect the college they attend to do it for you.
I sought Christian friends and found them at a State School. Some of my high school friends went to Harding and sought out trouble and found it at a Christian school. It isn’t the school that makes the difference when you go looking for something specific. When the school makes a difference is when you don’t know what you are looking for then the type of school can help. Sending a seeker to a Christian school you are more likely to introduce them to Christian students, professors, and administrators and change their life outlook.
Man, I can totally see why some of you send your kids to Christian colleges! My parents could not afford to send us to a Christian college. We went to a state college where drinking was prevalent and not something that was secret or taboo. I’m sure my parents wished that they could have sent us to a Christian school, but they were also not afraid of our decision making process at the state school. They trusted their parenting, and they trusted us! We grew up openly talking about things like drinking/drunkneness, sex, and our walk with Christ. My parents were known to have the occasional drink, no they did not get drunk. We were taught about making wise choices, and moderation, and about being controlled by the Spirit. We never even knew if our school had a policy about drinking, but we never drank, we never got drunk. There was no mandated chapel, but we found a church, got involved and went to class, on our own, every Wed and Sunday, on our own, without anyone making us a slide a card or checkin up on us. I know some of you will find this hard to believe, but we actually grew closer to God at a state school! Anyway, I know you all love your kids, and if policies like this one will prevent you from sending your kids there, that is your right. But, I think it says more about you than it does ACU.
Quoting LJ:
I am astonished that almost everyone responding seems to think that drinking (at least in moderation) is a fine and dandy thing to do. Alcohol is a drug, it is highly addictive and for some people there is no “safe” amount. Even a moderate amount impairs judgement. If you drink, you risk becoming an alcoholic. Alcohol is evil–it destroys lives…
If this is true, LJ–if “alcohol is evil,” as you assert, then why did God say in Deuteronomy that your undeliverable tithe should be use to “buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish” (Deut 14:26). Why does Psalm 104:15 praise God for the gift of “sine that gladdens the heart of man”? Why did Paul tell Timothy to “drink no longer only wine, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake, and for thine oft infirmities”?
Just like computers, guns, fire, and butter, alcohol can be used appropriately or inappropriately. The American Heart Association recommends red wine as good for the heart; the Mediterranean diet (using plenty of wine) is widely recognized as healthy.
If “alcohol is evil,” why in the world would Jesus have turned water into an alcoholic beverage?
D’oh.
…should be *used* to “buy…
the gift of “wine…”
LJ, do you also believe sugar “in any amount” is evil? What about TV? asprin? prescription drugs?
Kent, I read all the comments before posting my own. I did get the gist of Dr. Beck’s earlier comments, but I wanted clarification and specifics.
Edgar, yes, I read your quote from Deuteronomy the first time you posted it. And, as I have already posted, The American Heart Association as well as all the other health organizations will tell you, “if you don’t drink, don’t start.” Edgar, I’m laughing at myself as I type this but I really wish Jesus hadn’t turned that water into wine! Do you suppose all those wedding guests drank in moderation? After all, they had already drunk up everything the host had provided. Surely Jesus wouldn’t have created an excess possibly leading to drunkenness. Maybe it was just a larger crowd than expected.
Dr. Beck, thank you for your response which seemed to me thoughtful and genuine. I know how popular you are with the students and how much influence you have with them. So, what you choose to say to them and how you say it is a serious matter.
Your comment about this discussion being about tensions between ACU and the CoC is exactly right. I am continuing to think about what you have written.
If the policy change makes a difference in how spring break speech about alcohol becomes conversational in nature, when will the spring break speech about sexuality (reread RB’s comment) become conversational?
Hi eddy,
The conversations about sexuality are a bit different than the conversations about alcohol. The University, the CoC, and Christendom generally can all speak uniformly, unambiguously and with clearer biblical warrant about sexual immorality. Importantly, this witness is consistent across all Christian faith traditions. It is also consistent across all age groups (e.g., immorality isn’t okay no matter what your age). In short, the message about sexuality is biblical, clear, consistent across age groups, and uniform across faith traditions.
But the discussion about alcohol is different. A prohibition for 21+ students seemed strained on legal, biblical, demographic (e.g., telling 50 year old students they couldn’t drink), and ecclesial grounds (i.e., students from different faith traditions saw the issue differently). All this complicated the conversation immensely, leading to inconsistencies, mixed messages, and equivocations.
No one ever became an alcoholic without taking that first drink…and people who have a tendency towards alcoholism often do not know it until they are into it (unless there is a family history.)
According to the Baptist Rehab Clinic in Little Rock approximately 20% of the population is predisposed to addiction (alcohol, drugs) because their liver does not process it through the kidneys, but insteads sends it straight to the brain…hence the “buzz”…and eventually addiction/alcoholism for those 20%.
20% is just a little too high a risk for me to take. I wouldn’t get on an airplane that had a 20% risk of crashing; why take a chance with the brain and body God gave me, which is a temple of the Holy Spirit?
Let me also throw this into the mix.
Most students come to us as 17 or 18 year olds. Which means that for the first 3-4 years at ACU the students are prohibited from drinking. Which means we are talking about ACU seniors, students who have lived for three years on the campus making choices about alcohol use. My assumption is that, if these students have abstained from drinking for three years for personal and ethical reasons, they will not turn into drunks their senior year. That is, some of the fear mongering on this issue doesn’t make a lot of sense on developmental and psychological grounds.
Since fear mongoring is the motivation for disapproving the policy change, why will alcohol not be allowed on campus by 21-year olds–is the campus the only place where fear mongoring will make sense on developmental and psychological grounds?
Hi eddy,
In all honesty, I’m scratching my head about your comment. I think you’ve misunderstood me. Unintentionally or intentionally so, I cannot discern.
Assuming the best of you, let me clarify. I never said that THE motivation for disapproving the policy change is fear mongering. Many here have voiced serious and legitimate concerns without sounding an apocalyptic note. But some comments, in my opinion, have painted a picture of the potential outcomes that, as I said, I don’t think is developmentally realistic. That is, ruling out non-traditional students, no freshmen, sophomores, or juniors and even some seniors will be allowed to drink. In short, I think it important and helpful to precisely identify the demographic group under consideration while also considering the spiritual and developmental journey they will be on at ACU for years prior to this decision applying to them.
This isn’t an observation for or against the policy, just a clarification I think is helpful when the rhetoric heats up.
Don’t think this will be a better situation for ACU. It’ll get worse for the school and it’s campus. The years I spent at Harding many of the students drank and did their fare share of drugs. I became one of those partiers and weekend drinkers and had a great time doing it, then. But now I have seen first hand what alcohol does to a person who becomes addicted to it and it leads to other things to get addicted too. A beer doesn’t lead you to a better and holy state of mind. It doesn’t lead to a Christ like environment either. I’ve been in those bars and other places that i never intended to be at, but I ended up there with other so called Christians. Now I look back at those years and have great resentment that they ever happened.
You can make can make your jokes about avocado sandwiches and give the board of ACU a pat on the back for a horrible decision. But there is not one good thing that will come out of this. Money is the decision for this so caled Christian institutes policy change. It will bring in more students that are not C of C and make us more money sports wise. Most atheletes will not come to a non- drinking school. So ACU gave in.
A social drink might not be horrible but for those who can’t stop at one and get addicted life is hell for them. ACU is just another WIMP who gave into the world and it’s evil desires. I don’t do those things anymore and plan on raising my three children to stay away from that stuff, because I know first hand where it will lead and it gets you nowhere but in the lap of Satan himself. ACU good decision of stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“There are zero, ZERO 21 year olds that currently drink that do it responsibly.”
Chris, this is just flat out false. I’m a 22 year old ACU student. I had my first drink shortly after I turned 21, have had the occasional margarita ever since. My friends do the same. I have never seen them drunk. I have never been drunk. Truth be told, I’m a bit offended that you’d blindly assume that I MUST be irresponsible because of my age. Seems to me Paul had something to say to Timothy about people looking down on him for being young (he also, incidentally, suggested that he drink wine for his stomach’s sake - I wonder if he’d have done that if NO young person can drink responsibly as you assert).
“A social drink might not be horrible but for those who can’t stop at one and get addicted life is hell for them.”
CS, you realize that ACU’s ban on alcohol does absolutely NOTHING to prevent those people from drinking? It’s completely unenforceable. The biggest difference, as RB said, is that now a person can actually talk about their problem and get help.
RB said,
(i.e., students from different faith traditions saw the issue differently)
CS said,
Money is the decision for this so caled Christian institutes policy change. It will bring in more students that are not C of C
Bingo.
Just the beginning.
The discussion about whether drinking alcohol is permissable is something for older generations to haggle about after bunco and elders meetings. Like instrumental music or any other CoC idiosyncrasy, it is largely a non-issue to my generation (Gen X&Y). We grew up wondering why we couldn’t talk about mom’s margaritas, dad’s coors light, dancing, and instrumental praise in front of grandma and grandpa. We’ve now grown up and we realize it is just a bunch of irrelevant BS. There are more important issues in our community.
I agree 100% with everything RB has said except the following:
“In short, the message about sexuality is biblical, clear, consistent across age groups, and uniform across faith traditions.”
Christendom is not uniform concerning this issue. Ask a gay Christian if he/she agrees.
Mike, please delete my last post (4/19 7:38pm).
Thanks.
Obviously, different people value different ways to raise their children, and I think most of us who read this blog pray that Christ will be formed in all our kids. To me, once my children were old enough to understand consequences of their decisions and were able to come to know Christ enough to want to be more like Him, I found that the fact that some people choose to act irresponsibly was not a reason to make a law–although it seems to me from my experience that making laws and drawing lines is generally much easier (not only for me as a parent but for my own life as a disciple). What is best, but much more difficult, in my way of thinking, is to try to do what we can to help each other understand the way of Christ and to help each other turn hearts toward Him so that we can be transformed into His image. To that end, spiritual conversations, as RB has suggested, are what I want my children to experience.
Now, on the other hand, if a person has decided that drinking alcohol at age 21 (or any age, perhaps) is wrong for him/her therefore it is wrong for you and me, well, that is another issue entirely IMHO.
Mike and Chris and whomever might have miscontrued my post. This thread started out as the search for the perfect sandwich. I merely commented that 10,000 kids starved while we were having this conversations (about an avocado and bacon sandwich). My post had nothing to do with alcohol at ACU. On my office door is a quote from C. S. Lewis: “All that is not eternal is eternally useless.” My wife and I try to live simply so that others may simply live. You know, have a bite to eat once in awhile.
CS,
You wrote, “…make us more money sports wise. Most atheletes will not come to a non- drinking school.”
1. Alcohol is strictly prohibited from campus and all sporting events. That included advertising. So, where will that elusive money come from sports wise?
2. You’re correct about athletes not coming to a non-drinking school. ACU sits near the bottom of the NCAA for the sorry athletes its’ able to recruit. Oh, wait…http://www.acusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8900&ATCLID=508407
David I wasn’t talking about beer being sold at sporting events. I was saying the atheletes will come because they will be able to do the same sinful things at ACu that they can do at a normal state school. I don’t understand why people want to change things like the rules at a Christian college. It’s just plain stupid!!!!!!!!!!
Everybody wants to change things in the church because they are just simply selfish and want things to suit there own point of view. Same with this drinking thing. ME,me,me,me,me,me,me……………It’s not about what we think! Leave the no drinking rule in affect. I know the students are going to do it, but kids at that age need some type of discipline. Everybody keeps taking away the rules and soon we will have a bunch of wild people running around because we were afraid to enforce the rules. Discipline it’s in the Bible!
CS,
Everybody wants to change things in the church
Are you talking about your church? No one over 21 drinks in your church? Do you spy on them to make sure they don’t break the rules?
CS,
Most people will not be persuaded when you use language like, “It’s just plain stupid!!!!!!!!!!” and “Everybody wants to change things in the church because they are just simply selfish and want things to suit there own point of view.”
You have just called the people on the other side of this issue stupid and selfish. Do you expect others to care what you have to say on a matter when you have belittled them?
And please (please!!!!!!!!!!) don’t start talking about itching ears.
Okay?
Thanks.
No one has really brought up the question of “exactly why is the drinking limited to off campus?”
If it’s OK to do (as told by the administration, Board, etc.), then why only off campus?