Comments on: Avocado and Bacon: In Search of the Perfect Sandwich http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich Sniffing out the work of God in the world... Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:16:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Leland http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72350 Leland Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:04:51 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72350 Good point Rick. Good point Rick.

]]> By: Chris http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72346 Chris Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:17:23 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72346 OK Alex et. al, I stand corrected. It is a super idea to make ACU just like the other schools in regards to its policy on drinking. Guys, my point is that the policy, the alcohol or any other thing that the school decides is worrysome TO ME. Yes, I believe college age young adults are not wired to make good decisions about alcohol. Perhaps a stereo-type. I assure you I am not a right-winger that thinks this will bring hell fire and damnation on anyone. TO ME it is sad that it had to happen at all. I pray those of you students that are praising this move will make good decisions. The next decisions to come once you are out of ACU will then be: Do I go to the cocktail party at my meetings? Do I go out with the guys to the bars at my meeting? Your boss asks you to come polish off a bottle of scotch with him to end the evening...All these things will happen to most of you (us). I pray you will make good decisions that will bring more people to Christ. By the way, you CAN have some red wines with fish. OK Alex et. al,

I stand corrected. It is a super idea to make ACU just like the other schools in regards to its policy on drinking. Guys, my point is that the policy, the alcohol or any other thing that the school decides is worrysome TO ME. Yes, I believe college age young adults are not wired to make good decisions about alcohol. Perhaps a stereo-type. I assure you I am not a right-winger that thinks this will bring hell fire and damnation on anyone. TO ME it is sad that it had to happen at all. I pray those of you students that are praising this move will make good decisions. The next decisions to come once you are out of ACU will then be: Do I go to the cocktail party at my meetings? Do I go out with the guys to the bars at my meeting? Your boss asks you to come polish off a bottle of scotch with him to end the evening…All these things will happen to most of you (us). I pray you will make good decisions that will bring more people to Christ.

By the way, you CAN have some red wines with fish.

]]> By: Rick http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72337 Rick Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:40:15 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72337 No one has really brought up the question of "exactly why is the drinking limited to off campus?" If it's OK to do (as told by the administration, Board, etc.), then why only off campus? You're telling me that a 21-year-old ADULT has the right to stand across a line that says he's "off campus" but he does NOT have the right to have a drink in the student center after a tough day of classes? And, it's NOT OK for a professor to kick back at his desk in his office after a long day and enjoy a glass of wine? But ... he can step over that off-campus line and do it and it's OK? I've never even visited the campus there, so I guess I don't know. What's so special about the campus? So, ACU, make up your mind. No one has really brought up the question of “exactly why is the drinking limited to off campus?”

If it’s OK to do (as told by the administration, Board, etc.), then why only off campus?

You’re telling me that a 21-year-old ADULT has the right to stand across a line that says he’s “off campus” but he does NOT have the right to have a drink in the student center after a tough day of classes?

And, it’s NOT OK for a professor to kick back at his desk in his office after a long day and enjoy a glass of wine?

But … he can step over that off-campus line and do it and it’s OK?

I’ve never even visited the campus there, so I guess I don’t know. What’s so special about the campus?

So, ACU, make up your mind.

]]> By: Kirk http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72319 Kirk Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:06:03 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72319 CS, Most people will not be persuaded when you use language like, "It’s just plain stupid!!!!!!!!!!" and "Everybody wants to change things in the church because they are just simply selfish and want things to suit there own point of view." You have just called the people on the other side of this issue stupid and selfish. Do you expect others to care what you have to say on a matter when you have belittled them? And please (please!!!!!!!!!!) don't start talking about itching ears. Okay? Thanks. CS,

Most people will not be persuaded when you use language like, “It’s just plain stupid!!!!!!!!!!” and “Everybody wants to change things in the church because they are just simply selfish and want things to suit there own point of view.”

You have just called the people on the other side of this issue stupid and selfish. Do you expect others to care what you have to say on a matter when you have belittled them?

And please (please!!!!!!!!!!) don’t start talking about itching ears.

Okay?

Thanks.

]]> By: Alan http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72306 Alan Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:06:28 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72306 CS, <i>Everybody wants to change things in the church</i> Are you talking about your church? No one over 21 drinks in your church? Do you spy on them to make sure they don't break the rules? CS,
Everybody wants to change things in the church

Are you talking about your church? No one over 21 drinks in your church? Do you spy on them to make sure they don’t break the rules?

]]> By: CS http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72303 CS Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:46:57 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72303 David I wasn't talking about beer being sold at sporting events. I was saying the atheletes will come because they will be able to do the same sinful things at ACu that they can do at a normal state school. I don't understand why people want to change things like the rules at a Christian college. It's just plain stupid!!!!!!!!!! Everybody wants to change things in the church because they are just simply selfish and want things to suit there own point of view. Same with this drinking thing. ME,me,me,me,me,me,me...............It's not about what we think! Leave the no drinking rule in affect. I know the students are going to do it, but kids at that age need some type of discipline. Everybody keeps taking away the rules and soon we will have a bunch of wild people running around because we were afraid to enforce the rules. Discipline it's in the Bible! David I wasn’t talking about beer being sold at sporting events. I was saying the atheletes will come because they will be able to do the same sinful things at ACu that they can do at a normal state school. I don’t understand why people want to change things like the rules at a Christian college. It’s just plain stupid!!!!!!!!!!
Everybody wants to change things in the church because they are just simply selfish and want things to suit there own point of view. Same with this drinking thing. ME,me,me,me,me,me,me……………It’s not about what we think! Leave the no drinking rule in affect. I know the students are going to do it, but kids at that age need some type of discipline. Everybody keeps taking away the rules and soon we will have a bunch of wild people running around because we were afraid to enforce the rules. Discipline it’s in the Bible!

]]> By: David http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72265 David Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:23:22 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72265 CS, You wrote, "...make us more money sports wise. Most atheletes will not come to a non- drinking school." 1. Alcohol is strictly prohibited from campus and all sporting events. That included advertising. So, where will that elusive money come from sports wise? 2. You're correct about athletes not coming to a non-drinking school. ACU sits near the bottom of the NCAA for the sorry athletes its' able to recruit. Oh, wait...http://www.acusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8900&ATCLID=508407 CS,

You wrote, “…make us more money sports wise. Most atheletes will not come to a non- drinking school.”

1. Alcohol is strictly prohibited from campus and all sporting events. That included advertising. So, where will that elusive money come from sports wise?

2. You’re correct about athletes not coming to a non-drinking school. ACU sits near the bottom of the NCAA for the sorry athletes its’ able to recruit. Oh, wait…http://www.acusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=8900&ATCLID=508407

]]> By: Victor Knowles http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72235 Victor Knowles Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:50:15 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72235 Mike and Chris and whomever might have miscontrued my post. This thread started out as the search for the perfect sandwich. I merely commented that 10,000 kids starved while we were having this conversations (about an avocado and bacon sandwich). My post had nothing to do with alcohol at ACU. On my office door is a quote from C. S. Lewis: "All that is not eternal is eternally useless." My wife and I try to live simply so that others may simply live. You know, have a bite to eat once in awhile. Mike and Chris and whomever might have miscontrued my post. This thread started out as the search for the perfect sandwich. I merely commented that 10,000 kids starved while we were having this conversations (about an avocado and bacon sandwich). My post had nothing to do with alcohol at ACU. On my office door is a quote from C. S. Lewis: “All that is not eternal is eternally useless.” My wife and I try to live simply so that others may simply live. You know, have a bite to eat once in awhile.

]]> By: Kathy S http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72233 Kathy S Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:44:45 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72233 Obviously, different people value different ways to raise their children, and I think most of us who read this blog pray that Christ will be formed in all our kids. To me, once my children were old enough to understand consequences of their decisions and were able to come to know Christ enough to want to be more like Him, I found that the fact that some people choose to act irresponsibly was not a reason to make a law--although it seems to me from my experience that making laws and drawing lines is generally much easier (not only for me as a parent but for my own life as a disciple). What is best, but much more difficult, in my way of thinking, is to try to do what we can to help each other understand the way of Christ and to help each other turn hearts toward Him so that we can be transformed into His image. To that end, spiritual conversations, as RB has suggested, are what I want my children to experience. Now, on the other hand, if a person has decided that drinking alcohol at age 21 (or any age, perhaps) is wrong for him/her therefore it is wrong for you and me, well, that is another issue entirely IMHO. Obviously, different people value different ways to raise their children, and I think most of us who read this blog pray that Christ will be formed in all our kids. To me, once my children were old enough to understand consequences of their decisions and were able to come to know Christ enough to want to be more like Him, I found that the fact that some people choose to act irresponsibly was not a reason to make a law–although it seems to me from my experience that making laws and drawing lines is generally much easier (not only for me as a parent but for my own life as a disciple). What is best, but much more difficult, in my way of thinking, is to try to do what we can to help each other understand the way of Christ and to help each other turn hearts toward Him so that we can be transformed into His image. To that end, spiritual conversations, as RB has suggested, are what I want my children to experience.

Now, on the other hand, if a person has decided that drinking alcohol at age 21 (or any age, perhaps) is wrong for him/her therefore it is wrong for you and me, well, that is another issue entirely IMHO.

]]> By: Kirk http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72232 Kirk Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:05:58 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72232 Mike, please delete my last post (4/19 7:38pm). Thanks. Mike, please delete my last post (4/19 7:38pm).

Thanks.

]]> By: Topher http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72220 Topher Sun, 20 Apr 2008 22:01:09 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72220 The discussion about whether drinking alcohol is permissable is something for older generations to haggle about after bunco and elders meetings. Like instrumental music or any other CoC idiosyncrasy, it is largely a non-issue to my generation (Gen X&Y). We grew up wondering why we couldn't talk about mom's margaritas, dad's coors light, dancing, and instrumental praise in front of grandma and grandpa. We've now grown up and we realize it is just a bunch of irrelevant BS. There are more important issues in our community. I agree 100% with everything RB has said except the following: "In short, the message about sexuality is biblical, clear, consistent across age groups, and uniform across faith traditions." Christendom is not uniform concerning this issue. Ask a gay Christian if he/she agrees. The discussion about whether drinking alcohol is permissable is something for older generations to haggle about after bunco and elders meetings. Like instrumental music or any other CoC idiosyncrasy, it is largely a non-issue to my generation (Gen X&Y). We grew up wondering why we couldn’t talk about mom’s margaritas, dad’s coors light, dancing, and instrumental praise in front of grandma and grandpa. We’ve now grown up and we realize it is just a bunch of irrelevant BS. There are more important issues in our community.

I agree 100% with everything RB has said except the following:

“In short, the message about sexuality is biblical, clear, consistent across age groups, and uniform across faith traditions.”

Christendom is not uniform concerning this issue. Ask a gay Christian if he/she agrees.

]]> By: gt http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72214 gt Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:01:57 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72214 RB said, (i.e., students from different faith traditions saw the issue differently) CS said, Money is the decision for this so caled Christian institutes policy change. It will bring in more students that are not C of C Bingo. Just the beginning. RB said,

(i.e., students from different faith traditions saw the issue differently)

CS said,

Money is the decision for this so caled Christian institutes policy change. It will bring in more students that are not C of C

Bingo.

Just the beginning.

]]> By: Alex http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72202 Alex Sun, 20 Apr 2008 05:48:05 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72202 "There are zero, ZERO 21 year olds that currently drink that do it responsibly." Chris, this is just flat out false. I'm a 22 year old ACU student. I had my first drink shortly after I turned 21, have had the occasional margarita ever since. My friends do the same. I have never seen them drunk. I have never been drunk. Truth be told, I'm a bit offended that you'd blindly assume that I MUST be irresponsible because of my age. Seems to me Paul had something to say to Timothy about people looking down on him for being young (he also, incidentally, suggested that he drink wine for his stomach's sake - I wonder if he'd have done that if NO young person can drink responsibly as you assert). "A social drink might not be horrible but for those who can’t stop at one and get addicted life is hell for them." CS, you realize that ACU's ban on alcohol does absolutely NOTHING to prevent those people from drinking? It's completely unenforceable. The biggest difference, as RB said, is that now a person can actually talk about their problem and get help. “There are zero, ZERO 21 year olds that currently drink that do it responsibly.”

Chris, this is just flat out false. I’m a 22 year old ACU student. I had my first drink shortly after I turned 21, have had the occasional margarita ever since. My friends do the same. I have never seen them drunk. I have never been drunk. Truth be told, I’m a bit offended that you’d blindly assume that I MUST be irresponsible because of my age. Seems to me Paul had something to say to Timothy about people looking down on him for being young (he also, incidentally, suggested that he drink wine for his stomach’s sake - I wonder if he’d have done that if NO young person can drink responsibly as you assert).

“A social drink might not be horrible but for those who can’t stop at one and get addicted life is hell for them.”

CS, you realize that ACU’s ban on alcohol does absolutely NOTHING to prevent those people from drinking? It’s completely unenforceable. The biggest difference, as RB said, is that now a person can actually talk about their problem and get help.

]]> By: CS http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72198 CS Sun, 20 Apr 2008 04:04:41 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72198 Don't think this will be a better situation for ACU. It'll get worse for the school and it's campus. The years I spent at Harding many of the students drank and did their fare share of drugs. I became one of those partiers and weekend drinkers and had a great time doing it, then. But now I have seen first hand what alcohol does to a person who becomes addicted to it and it leads to other things to get addicted too. A beer doesn't lead you to a better and holy state of mind. It doesn't lead to a Christ like environment either. I've been in those bars and other places that i never intended to be at, but I ended up there with other so called Christians. Now I look back at those years and have great resentment that they ever happened. You can make can make your jokes about avocado sandwiches and give the board of ACU a pat on the back for a horrible decision. But there is not one good thing that will come out of this. Money is the decision for this so caled Christian institutes policy change. It will bring in more students that are not C of C and make us more money sports wise. Most atheletes will not come to a non- drinking school. So ACU gave in. A social drink might not be horrible but for those who can't stop at one and get addicted life is hell for them. ACU is just another WIMP who gave into the world and it's evil desires. I don't do those things anymore and plan on raising my three children to stay away from that stuff, because I know first hand where it will lead and it gets you nowhere but in the lap of Satan himself. ACU good decision of stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don’t think this will be a better situation for ACU. It’ll get worse for the school and it’s campus. The years I spent at Harding many of the students drank and did their fare share of drugs. I became one of those partiers and weekend drinkers and had a great time doing it, then. But now I have seen first hand what alcohol does to a person who becomes addicted to it and it leads to other things to get addicted too. A beer doesn’t lead you to a better and holy state of mind. It doesn’t lead to a Christ like environment either. I’ve been in those bars and other places that i never intended to be at, but I ended up there with other so called Christians. Now I look back at those years and have great resentment that they ever happened.
You can make can make your jokes about avocado sandwiches and give the board of ACU a pat on the back for a horrible decision. But there is not one good thing that will come out of this. Money is the decision for this so caled Christian institutes policy change. It will bring in more students that are not C of C and make us more money sports wise. Most atheletes will not come to a non- drinking school. So ACU gave in.
A social drink might not be horrible but for those who can’t stop at one and get addicted life is hell for them. ACU is just another WIMP who gave into the world and it’s evil desires. I don’t do those things anymore and plan on raising my three children to stay away from that stuff, because I know first hand where it will lead and it gets you nowhere but in the lap of Satan himself. ACU good decision of stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: RB http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72189 RB Sun, 20 Apr 2008 01:37:27 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2008/04/16/avocado-and-bacon-in-search-of-the-perfect-sandwich#comment-72189 Hi eddy, In all honesty, I'm scratching my head about your comment. I think you've misunderstood me. Unintentionally or intentionally so, I cannot discern. Assuming the best of you, let me clarify. I never said that THE motivation for disapproving the policy change is fear mongering. Many here have voiced serious and legitimate concerns without sounding an apocalyptic note. But some comments, in my opinion, have painted a picture of the potential outcomes that, as I said, I don't think is developmentally realistic. That is, ruling out non-traditional students, no freshmen, sophomores, or juniors and even some seniors will be allowed to drink. In short, I think it important and helpful to precisely identify the demographic group under consideration while also considering the spiritual and developmental journey they will be on at ACU for years prior to this decision applying to them. This isn't an observation for or against the policy, just a clarification I think is helpful when the rhetoric heats up. Hi eddy,
In all honesty, I’m scratching my head about your comment. I think you’ve misunderstood me. Unintentionally or intentionally so, I cannot discern.

Assuming the best of you, let me clarify. I never said that THE motivation for disapproving the policy change is fear mongering. Many here have voiced serious and legitimate concerns without sounding an apocalyptic note. But some comments, in my opinion, have painted a picture of the potential outcomes that, as I said, I don’t think is developmentally realistic. That is, ruling out non-traditional students, no freshmen, sophomores, or juniors and even some seniors will be allowed to drink. In short, I think it important and helpful to precisely identify the demographic group under consideration while also considering the spiritual and developmental journey they will be on at ACU for years prior to this decision applying to them.

This isn’t an observation for or against the policy, just a clarification I think is helpful when the rhetoric heats up.

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