I wholeheartedly agree with your last three paragraphs. I’m not sure what you mean by using “salvation/heaven” together in this way. I certainly believed we are saved here and now, when we obediently accept Christ as Lord. As to heaven in the present vs heaven in the future: Yes, Jesus clearly talks about reward in the “afterlife” we will spend with him forever in paradise. And yes, he promises his followers, “In this world you will have trouble…” This is a fallen world, and will remain so until Christ returns in glory. However, we, as ambassadors of Christ, can live our lives in the Way of the Kingdom of heaven now, bringing life and light and hope into the darkness of this present age. That was my key point, but I can’t speak for others.

Yes, there is a sense in which the Kingdom is here now. But he also preached about rewards. He taught about resurrection. He taught about the time of judgment and about going on to eternal life.

He said that he came to give us life to the full, but he also said that we should rejoice when we suffer in his name. He said that the world would hate us, and that persecution would come, but that we would receive our reward. And he contrasted lasting heavenly rewards with temporal earthly rewards.

Heaven (the after-life version) was a part of Jesus’ teaching. Can’t we teach that we have work to do on earth without removing the truth of heaven?

But the really funny part of this entire post is that “Bill” guy [comment #1] has a stock spam reply and an ad for his blog on just about every “Christian” blog AND most of you took it as some esoteric response to this post.

That was worth the surfing LOL

Gospels = Torah
Acts = History
letters = Prophets

It’s rather interesting to equate Torah, the words of God with Torah, the words of Jesus.

Over the course of my life as a “faithful Christian,” I have experienced my share of heartache and disappointment. Well, despite the pain and failings I have faced in my life since I was a boy, I still believe in the story of a God who is a loving Father, a life-saving Son, and a guiding Spirit. The powers of hell and the brokenness of this fallen world have not driven from my heart the hope of salvation from the eternal punishment I deserve for my many sins. I simply do not have what it takes to redeem myself from the natural consequences of my unloving, prideful, and fearful choices in life. And I thank my Father with all my being for sending his Son to pay the price for me. But I no longer think this is a story whose primary aim is to give me comfort in facing death. Does my hope in Christ give me hope for eternal life after death? Absolutely! Is that all the hope I have in Christ – a Get Out Of Hell, Free Card? Absolutely not!!!

You see, Jesus was not blinded by the illusion that this world is separate from the eternal, spiritual world. He came to remove the veil from our eyes, so we might see the Truth – that we are already living and breathing in the eternal, spiritual world. “But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” (2 Corinthians 3:16-18) He came to show us how to Live, beginning right now! In his own words, “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” (John 10:10) Yes, I am deeply thankful for the boyhood stories I heard from preachers, sang in church hymns, and saw on flannelgraph boards*. But those aren’t the reasons I believe in the Story of Life today.

I believe in the Biblical stories of the Real World today, not because of their flannelgraph imprint on my young, impressionable mind, but because I have seen enough evidence of Real World stories in the “real world” to convince me of their life changing power. I have seen lives transformed, relationships mended, and bodies healed. I have experienced the unmistakable love of God in the unlikeliest of places. And so I believe. And as my belief grows and blossoms into faith, faith leads to changes in my ways of thinking and acting. And as these changes take hold in my life and relationships, hope draws deeper, fresher breath in me. And living in the Kingdom of heaven is no longer some future promised land waiting for me beyond death’s door. I now delight in moments of heaven in the relationships of today.

I feel the artificial separation of the Hebrew Scriptures and even the Gospels from the rest of the New Testament is a big mistake with huge theological implications. While a new covenant was established, God did not change. The part of the “Old Testament” that covers The Law (or the covenant God made with Moses) is a minority of the OT. What about the rest?

The New Testament never discards the OT. When Paul mentions the usefulness of “scripture” in 2 Tim 3.16 he is referring to the OT (the NT was just beginning to be written). The Gospels and the Epistles are full of OT references. Colossians 2.14 does not say “The Law” was nailed to the cross. In fact, the Greek word for “law” (nomos) doesn’t occur once in Colossians. The NIV translates Col. 2.14 as “written code” and the NRSV simply says “the record.” I believe Col. 2 is talking about Christ taking away our debt and Paul uses this idea of a legal obligation (i.e. a mortgage) that Christ cancels for us with his death and resurrection.

Just my 2 cents…and I have a lot to learn I’m sure.
-Keith

For more discussion on Marcionism & Churches of Christ see Bobby Valentine’s Blog:
http://stoned-campbelldisciple.blogspot.com/search?q=Marcionism+%26+Churches+of+Christ

Yes, it accomplished (most of) what I had hoped for. I didn’t work on reading and sermons. I worked on me. Through friendship, mentoring, therapy, and prayer. I enjoyed my family. I worked out. I sought restoration, reflection, rest, repentance, and renewal.

I wish everyone had the opportunity. Others deserve it much more than I did. It was just a gift. I received it as such and cherish it as such.

I see His love for the down and out. He was asked to help the blind and lame and those with blood diseases. He was the great physician.

I see Him as a friend of sinners. Others couldn’t understand why he would hang out with them. He made it clear that it was the sick who wanted a doctor. So He would explain to the self-righteous that the basis for superior service is an attitude of gratitude.

I see Him as bold with the thought patrol cops. He was creative and new in His style of teaching as well as the content. The scribes and Pharisees and law experts and elders and such would get in His face. “Who do you think you are?”
He didn’t back up an inch. We must learn that compared to pleasing God, it doesn’t matter what people think of us.

I see Him in sorrow over a lost world. He weeps because the religious people want to keep their power and position and don’t seem to care. He weeps because the political power oppress the poor people. He weeps because there are destroying themselves in their sinfulness and will not come to God for life.

I see Him laughing at the future. God has a great plan for the future and the kingdom of heaven is going to rule in the hearts of men. If ever there was a realistic optimist it was Jesus.

This is why I think God gave us the gospels.
Larry Wishard

I get offered a lot of sabbaticals, and they usually conclude the offer by saying “and don’t come back”… ; - )

I find it interesting that you have made no comments on returning from sabbatical. My experience with sabbaticals is that:
1. The person acutally wanted to quit.
2. He/She was talked out of it and offered a sabbatical.
3. He/She takes the sabbatical, comes back, but still really wants to quit.

In fact I think the greek word for sebbatical is I want to do something else.

qb

I can’t recall if Bercot goes after the Sadducees and the Herodians or not, but Eugene Peterson (see his _The Jesus Way_) might suggest that he extend his analysis back to them instead of stopping with Constantine.

To Bercot, if you question the “church growth” movement and its assumptions, you qualify as a heretic these days. (qb thinks it would be a badge of honor.)

qb

“I once saw a Bible (put out by one of our brethren, BTW) that re-arranges the division to place the gospels in the Old Testament. The implication (actually, it’s a lot more overt than that) is that the gospels don’t really count…only Acts and Paul’s letters.”

I think the gospels count as well as the book of Amos. I think Isiah counts for me as well.

That is just me though David. I really don’t see why one differentiates between old and new. They both have their ambiguities and hard questions left unanswered.

Maybe life asks us what we will do and Amos, Isaiah and Jesus respond in kind with their words and lives. Jesus most important with his life. I do not need a resurrection to give me hope.