I’ve just been thinking how much I like Mike Huckabee. That doesn’t mean I’d vote for him, but I like the guy. I think he stands out in the Republican field of candidates.
Then I read this by Garrison Keillor today:
“The sudden rise of Mike Huckabee in the Republican jousts is a cool plot turn, one that makes you lean forward and turn up the sound. An amiable, well-spoken Southern conservative with a Gomer Pyle face challenging the teeth-baring Giuliani and the sleek Romney. You watch him field questions for a few minutes, and the man’s appeal is pretty clear. He comes off as a real person, not a caricature: He sounds like a guy talking to you, not a stiff with a set of applause lines.
“He’s a straight conservative but with exceptions — he’s in favor of health care for poor kids, he dares talk about the environment. And he’s a new contender, and that’s a big point in his favor. Romney is synthetic and Giuliani is toxic and people are ready for the next thing. The whole rationale of Giuliani is that we’re in terrible danger and need a mean SOB to run things, but we’ve never elected a president on those grounds. And now here is a smart conservative who doesn’t hate anybody.”
- - - -
There’s a perception by some people that our church has lost lots of people because we’re too “progressive” (maybe referring especially to a greater inclusion of women in assemblies). But that’s just not true. A few have left, but not many.
The door where we’ve lost (and I use this word hesitantly, because I have a much larger vision of the kingdom and don’t sense that people are “lost” — but rather that there is a kind of loss as when families are disrupted) many more people is the other one. We’ve had many more families leave through the years because they want a worship experience that is more charismatic/experiential or they want times of lengthy, instrumental praise. I’m not guessing on this. I’ve been told — by people who aren’t leaving upset and who love Highland.
In other words, the door leading on out the right is very small; the door leading out on the left is much larger. (I know “right” and “left” is confusing here — because truthfully most leaving out the “left” are going to more conservative churches, but churches with a charismatic/experiential focus.)
It’s not a cause for deep concern for me. We want to bless everyone who comes; and we want to bless everyone who leaves. The work of God is what’s crucial — and that happens in many different forms in many different denominations.
As good as Huckabee sounds, it appears some of his ethics (or lack of) may be his downfall or down side. And is wife appears to be inclined to making bad decisions too. But I do agree with you that the public is ready to hear a new voice.
Are you serious? What about the coin, sheep, and son? Were these not lost? What if their owner or Father was little concerned? Would he not one day look around and say, “What became of my finances, flocks, or family?”
The lack of deep concern will eventually work both ways. The exit doors that so freely beckon members accept preachers as well.
Troy - I’m not sure I understand your comment. Did you think I was saying that I don’t care when people are lost? I’m sorry if I communicated that.
I’m talking about people who find (either because of “doctrinal” concerns on one side or experiential concerns on the other side) another place to call their church home. They’re not lost. They’re still very much involved in the work of God in this world. We’ve had a ton of new families join us recently and I want to bless them. We’ve had a few leave, and I want to bless them, too.
The success of my congregation isn’t of ultimate importance, in other words. The work of God, which he has invited us to join in, is!
(I’m sorry if I misunderstood your comment.)
This is an interesting post, Mike.
I was a HU student while Huckabee was governor, and I couldn’t tell he cared about much besides losing weight. At the same time, he does seem like a very genuine person (he led by example on the weight thing), and I certainly prefer him over Giuliani. There have been a few of his responses to questions that I really wanted to stand up and applaud.
Regarding people leaving, I’ve seen people leave (or come) for some of the same reasons you’re talking about. All the reshuffling of the card deck makes me sad that in our culture, we just really don’t seem to have much of a sense of loyalty or accountability to our churches. It’s way too easy to pick up and shop around when someone rubs us the wrong way, or doesn’t do what we’re wanting. I don’t know the solution to it, but it looks like a problem to me.
Thanks for sharing your perspective on this.
Mark <
Mark - Excellent words. Yes, I’m not endorsing the culture that makes leaving easy. I’m just looking at it from a leader’s perspective, asking how I can understand what’s happening and how I can bless people in the transition. Thanks.
Five words that will probably keep Mike Huckabee from being elected president: Ouachita Baptist University, Arkadelphia, Arkansas (Huckabee’s alma mater).
I find it interesting how quiet Dobson is towards Huckabee - not sure what the reason is - maybe Mike says Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas.
Pandora’s box is open - our 18-25 year olds have minimal to no allegiance toward the name church of christ. Churches are going to actually have to be Christ to one another rather than leaning on their denomination strong arm - or making salvation issues out of a piano or tambourine.
Thanks for your ministry and church leadership Mike!
Five words that might help Mike Huckabee receive the nomination for today’s Republican Party: Ouachita Baptist University, Arkadelphia, Arkansas
Thanks, Mike, for putting this into words.
College is in a unique position among C’s of C in the San Joaquin Valley. We are comparitively quite progressive (another word I use with hesitation). This leads us to believe that if people leave, it is because we’ve “gone too far.”
I’ve long felt that we have lost as many or more because we “don’t go far enough.” A lot of quotation marks here, but I think you know what I mean.
The reason I agree with you mostly though, is because I know that if WE ever leave College, it’ll be through the door on the left.
We like Huckabee and Duncan Hunter, don’t hear much about the later.
The spirit in all it’s glory will lead to those that listen. The Bible says to try the Spirit, I never knew what that meant as I grew up. The leaders were just always going to be right. But then I read more and knew that wasn’t always true.
Mike,
Excellent Post. We have similar experiences with people coming and going for the reasons you have mentioned. I am always sad when they leave us, but happy they are still seeking and following God. Culture has made it to easy to push the buttons on the remote control. If something is displeasing or not what we like we push the up or down button.
Keep placing the word of God before people and it will act on them.
Interestingly enough, I have been provided with an opportunity with my son and a discussion with him last night about how he sees his faith growing and his future with the Church of Christ. The role for which I am most grateful as a parent is the role of spiritual mentor to my children. I had to hear him say some things that made me realize that he may be one of those looking for a different experience in his spiritual life as he gets ready to depart for college. IF he chooses to do something different than what I do, is he spiritually lost? Or am I? Or is he enjoying a relationship with God that is just different than mine? What if I try to fight his decisions? Does that build up the church and do he and I build each other up as father and son and as brothers in Christ?
I am proud of my son for looking so thoughtfully and caring so deeply about spiritual things. I am looking forward to our continued discussions and guiding through his decision making process.
I wish someone (Mike?) would official declare the churches of Christ have split again; so we could all get on with our lives. Many churches are riding the fence and it’s killing them. People are leaving through both doors (sometimes it takes years to notice). Don’t have time here; but there are some distinctives that seperate the “conservatives” from the “progresives” in every town. (I think Joe Beam wrote an excellent peice on this a few years back). I wish someone would officially declare it…and let’s all move on.
Huckabee certainly looks/sounds good standing next to that gang, whew!
“Likability” is not a very good predictor of presidentialness, I fear. As amiable as Jimmy Carter used to be, he was an utter disaster in the Oval Office. Sure, Huckabee is a likable guy, but he’s got a lot of explaining to do if he wants to convince us that he’s worthy of the label “conservative,” as in, committed to the principles of limited federal government as they pertain to taxation, regulation, federalism, security etc.
But he does swing a mean bass guitar, and if he can lay down a righteous Skynyrd riff *ptui* *ting*, you d@mn betcha ah’ll vote fer ‘im.
qredneckb
Our son left us after graduating from high school and moved to Seattle. We did not see his leaving as separation from our family. He did not leave because he was unhappy with his family (I hope); He left in order to better his life. I think it is healthy for someone to leave “home” in order to grow. Why do we fill the need to stop them?
as a former cofc’er who graduated from harding and acu. the church is losing people because it is becoming irrelevant. not because of doctrinal issues. for people who have left, it servers no more purpose than making you feel better about yourself and giving you a social group. better music and drama doesn’t make it any more useful to our daily lives.
Jon Z., thanks for your interesting, insightful response. What suggestions would you give to encourage us be more relevant?
Good post, Mike. As a former staff member at Highland, I’m thankful for the “movement” of HCC towards a kingdom perspective rather than a church perspective which has led to a healthier perspective on the Church. I think you’ll know what I’m saying…Blessings!
My husband is an elder in a church trying to make conservatives and progressives “get along”. Morale is often not good, because everyone wants their side to win. We have lost a lot to the more conservative cofc, and some to those who felt like we were not moving forward.
craig. i wish i had an answer. i’m finding more comfort on my journey in mainline congregations. episcopal and ucofc’s. for me, this is a journey and i don’t have all the answers. i only have jesus as a path. i’ve made some pretty exhaustive studies that lead me to the understanding that the bible points toward god. but it is has man’s fingerprints all over it. it is beautiful metaphor. it should be taken seriously, not literally.
i honestly feel that i have language now to express my belief and doubt. i feel at peace. and i really think that more people will seek out faith that doesn’t mean they need to be afraid of modernism or science.
I’ll take a stab at the relevance question. I will choose to be as diplomatic as I possibly can but sometimes people need to read the facts and not the spin.
Too often we have seen our traditional c of c hold steady to our traditions. As they do so, they condemn those that are not like them. They are ready to hold a food drive for the benevolent room but are unwilling to help someone more than once because they do not want to create dependency. They are self righteous in their pronouncements but cannot understand why the families of their congregation are falling apart. They are so focused on what happens on Sunday morning and evening and Wednesday evening service that they do not realize that people are so overhwelmed with what is happening in their life that what is the focus on Sunday and Wednesday is no longer important to them. I hear of elderships more focused on money in the bank than in spiritual development. We have too few shepherds that are willing to smell like sheep.
I think what we view as church is not what is represented in scripture. I think what we view as church is a nice social club of people that all like to look the same, sing the same, talk the same and declare their sameness as righteousness and unity. They are confused. Unity is not uniformity.
I wrote rather frankly and do not mean to offend. Please note that my disagreement with the traditionalists is just that…a disagreement. I do not sit in judgement of them. I simply disagree with them.
these things I KNOW…
1. I love Jesus
2. I love Mike Cope
3. I love Highland.
I’m thankful for you, brother! We should talk about Pepperdine sometime soon for various reasons.
Jon Zebedee:
So what’s wrong in feeling good about yourself and being a social group? The new Christians in Acts 2 sounds like a happy social group to me.
Cultural influences will come and go; but, if we stick to the message of Jesus Christ and him crucified, we will never go wrong. If we can grasp that the kingdom of God is larger than the definition in the yellow pages of “Churches-Church of Christ” which declares our surrender to being observed as just another denomination, then maybe the church universal becomes the rallying point of “when we all get to heaven, what a day of rejoicing that will be!”
Bradford L. Stevens
St. Louis, MO
The church my parents attended for over 25 years, in the building my father literally helped build became more progressive over time. They became uncomfortable and left. It was terrible to have to watch. The church they helped build changed, but they didn’t. We can debate whether they should have changed and been more “open” later. It tore them apart to decide to leave the place where four of their adult kids still called our home church. People leaving may not be lost. My experience showed me that there is a lot more to it than that. To me it was watching a family fall apart. They may find another church, but most of the time it is not the church home they had and that stinks.
Mike
I guess my concern is what happens when they go out of the door. Do they get planted by God as a flowering fruit tree bearing the fruit of His Spirit.? Seems like that only happens when the church has left the building. Can’t plant and grow in the middle of a building, then you are something else. More like a dwarf Japanese bonsai. Very ornamental but no fruit.
About two months ago I heard Ted Nugent say, in an interview, that he liked Mike Huckabee, that if he had to vote “today” he would vote for Huckabee. I never thought I’d see the day that the Bard of Minnesota and The Motorcity Madman would potentially support the same candidate. What strange bedfellows politics does make.
Clint! Good point. After all we are called the family of God. Do families not socialize with each other? I’d hope so.
As far as the revolving door syndrome, if one chooses to leave for reason of a good conscience before God, the move must be made. But once made, I’d strongly suggest and hope that the departed would have only words of blessing for the church family they’ve left. When I hear things said by some that have left “X” congregation - it is difficult not to think they left because they couldn’t get their own way, not because of conscience. Sad!
As Mike says, may there be blessings on those that go and those that come in - may all they do and say bring glory and honor to the King of Kings.
Sounds like a Giuliani/Huckabee team might be the way to go to keep Christians from defecting. I, for one, am very comfortable with a “mean SOB” as president. Does anyone think this cannot be reconciled with a Christian worldview?
In a recent post Mike commented that he didn’t think the “Toby Keith-let’s-kill-all-the-terrorists” attitude was Christian. (Mike, if I’m mischaracterizing your comment I apologize). I would add that I agree with the general tone of the comment. However, does this mean it is inconsistent for a Christian to want someone with that perspective to be president?
Here is a link on Abilene High’s big win today.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=3137115
congratulations coach Warren and AHS. BIG WIN
Go Eagles!
Is this why Richland Hills went to a Saturday night service?
I’ve been in several churches as I’ve moved throughout my lifetime, and I’m not too ashamed to say I very much gravitate toward more contemporary worship, instrumental or not. After being in a church that had a very “exciting” praise time, it’s hard to revert to more “traditional.” However, I am a member of a community (at Highland) that I love very much…(and most people wouldn’t classify Highland as traditional…ha ha!…but based on one of my worship experiences, it actually is.)
What I am thankful for is that I have gotten to experience different worship forms, and just because I prefer one that to me is more “fun” and “exciting” and that I feel makes me more open to God doesn’t mean I can’t worship more “traditionally.” However, I know well what Mike is saying here about people transplanting to other churches due primarily to the worship experience. I have friends at Highland who did just that. In addition, they are still in community in different ways with their Highland connections. However, it has been an agonizing decision for them in that it was not their desire to “leave” Highland at all.
I am quite impressed that friends of mine are taking responsibility to say, “I need to evaluate my weekly worship experience and see if it is one that helps me be most open to God.” I don’t think we saw this kind of honest evaluation years ago. People just came out of duty, sat, and disconnected…or went away dissatisfied. I believe our freedom in Christ allows this kind of honest evaluation. I know that worship is not supposed to be about us, but in reality it comes from us and therefore is all about us as well as all about God…all about how our hearts open and praise flows. I think we have to be honest about evaluating the avenues where we are most open to God, and if it is in our control, we face a responsibility to put ourselves there. That may mean going somewhere else or it may mean staying put and using my commute as a worship time.
Would I love a Saturday night service at Highland like Richland Hills has? You bet! Would that be better than two services Sunday morning? Maybe. However, in addressing these concerns, we can create an unnecessary burden on leadership and volunteers to create the “experience” every week, and if that “experience” is not “good enough”, then what? I think this (for lack of a better title) “contemporary/modern/exciting/whatever” kind of worship is incredible, but I also believe I’m responsible for worship as I look out the window this morning, too sick to attend services anywhere…
The conclusion? I don’t have one…just mixed thoughts and sorting. I love “contemporary/modern/exciting/rocking/whatever” worship experiences. I also love the community I’m currently in, which has a middle of the road worship experience. Would I like a more “rocking” option? Sure. But just because we don’t currently have it, ours is not “wrong” and somebody else’s is “right.” Do I want my leadership in my church to change our worship or offer alternatives? Yes, I’m open to that entirely. Do I come EXPECTING THEM to create the worship in me (by how “good” an experience they “produce”?) No, my worship is my responsibility. Are there avenues that make that easier for me to do? Sure. Is that a product of my culture? Probably entirely. But I’m glad I have many options about being excited about God.
And, having grown up in various C of C’s, I’m really glad to be having this conversation at all…we’ve come a long way, baby!
Jimmy, you said the five words that might help Huckabee get the nomination in “today’s” Republican Party were “Ouachita Baptist University, Arkadelphia Arkansas.” You seem to be making a slam against the Republicans based upon this, so I am just curious: what five words would you string together that might help someone get the nomination in today’s Democratic Party?
Where I serve as a Preacher, we lost some because we have gone too far and we have lost some because we have not gone far enough. This is an interesting paradox. In my observation, both sides have one thing in common: a NARCISSISTIC approach to Christianity. I think this problem is really just a phenomenon that is taking place within the larger American culture. That is, everything is about me, myself, and I. And church…yes that too is about me and when it stopps suiting me, either due to too much progression or lack of, then I will find the place that does suit me. Is it any wonder why Christianity/church is fading in North America?
Rex
Ithaca Church of Christ
Ithaca, NY
In a presidential race where there seems to be a dearth of candidates with integrity, Huckabee is a refreshing phenomenon. Yes there were issues dealing with a couple of poor choices he’s made while governor of Arkansas. But I would love to see him get the Republican nomination. If Hillary is indeed the Democratic nominee, the contrasts between the two will be amazing.
Jim, it’s a good question, I guess. I’m just not sure I can answer it. First, because my original comment was meant almost entirely as a witty — I hoped, and perhaps funny — retort to the earlier comment by Victor. Second, it wasn’t so much a “slam” as an observation from my own experience, having left behind my long-term connection to the religio-conservative political ideologies of recent Republican politics. And third,because I didn’t choose those five words myself.
But more than that, I wouldn’t really hazard a guess about the “five words” that would/would not get a Democrat nominated because I simply have almost nothing invested in Democrat politics and don’t know that context well as my own experience. I still have more than a little difficulty “thinking like” a typical Democrat.
George Will, a perceptive observer of all things conservative, has thundered forth with a devastating critique of Huckabee in his most recent on-line column. Affability without coherence is not much of a blessing to the electorate, and Will exposes him for it. See
http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/will120207.php3
qb
Mike- Thanks for the response.
I don’t intend to be confrontational, but I’m not so sure that there is any misunderstanding between us. I think it is naive, wishful thinking, or possibly even damage control, to think that you’ve been a blessing to everyone who leaves and that they have remained a faithful and productive member of the body of Christ. If Highland is like other churches that I’ve experienced with an agenda, there are those who feel abandoned and leave broken hearted never to darken the door of any assembly. To say that it is not a “cause for deep concern,” is amazing to me.
Troy - Please tell me you’ve never been in a church without an agenda. I hope never to be in one! The church where I am has a definite agenda — though I doubt it’s the one many suppose. We are seeking to live out the implications of being gospeled people — of living in the wake of Jesus’ prayer, “your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”
qb - Nice link. I’m certainly not saying I’d vote for Huckabee. For several reasons. However, I find him refreshing. As Keillor says, here’s someone “who doesn’t hate anybody.”
Mike- What I’m talking about is pushing an agenda at the expense of unity. Having Sherry Rankin presiding over communion, speaking about walls in the kingdom, and misinterpretting Gal.3:28 is doing just that.
Did someone say sherry in the communion? Oh, Sherry and the communion. Sorry!
Speaking of Presidential Candidates I wonder how many are aware that fred Thompsons stated religious affiliation is Churches of Christ?
As one who is not currently a attending a church of Christ for an Army chapel, I can say I certainly have a great deal of love for these churches. I still regularly pray for Mike and Highland. If I were to move back to Texas I might or might not find myself belonging to one again. It might be difficult after leading worship both a cappella and instrumentally. But i certainly wish the church of most of my life the best, Kent
I thought I liked Huckabee, and then I read this.
http://scottfreeman.info/2007/12/06/the-whole-truth/
and now it’s personal. I could not vote for him even if I wanted to because I would never trust his judgment.