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	<title>Comments on: The Kingdom of God</title>
	<atom:link href="http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2</link>
	<description>Sniffing out the work of God in the world...</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-73212</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 16:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-73212</guid>
		<description>god bless you****************************************************</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>god bless you****************************************************</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-73211</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 16:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-73211</guid>
		<description>god bless you****************************************************</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>god bless you****************************************************</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joe Hanley</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68870</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Hanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68870</guid>
		<description>This article tells a whole lot more than required to understand this subject.  It is filled not with double-speak but even triple-speack, it seems to me.  First you have it, then you don't, then you have it then it's coming sometime, then we have it but we don't have it.
Jesus' words about this kingdom coming in the time of his audience ca27-30AD must mean he was mistaken?
Joe Hanley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article tells a whole lot more than required to understand this subject.  It is filled not with double-speak but even triple-speack, it seems to me.  First you have it, then you don&#8217;t, then you have it then it&#8217;s coming sometime, then we have it but we don&#8217;t have it.<br />
Jesus&#8217; words about this kingdom coming in the time of his audience ca27-30AD must mean he was mistaken?<br />
Joe Hanley</p>
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		<title>By: Wish I could use my name</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68527</link>
		<dc:creator>Wish I could use my name</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68527</guid>
		<description>He’d been deemed unfit for duty by the US Navy, Abilene Police Department and the FBI. All he ever wanted to do was to protect people from the evils of this world. It was rather ironic the world thought they needed protection from him. After all, he had battled psychotic depression and nobody can recover from that mental illness; they just go on shooting rampages in places like Blacksburg and Columbine. 

Is mental illness a real disease or a weakness of character? He struggled with this dichotomy constantly. It was a real illness to others, but the long line of good men from which he came precluded him from accepting this fact. 

He hated his vocation and wanted a calling. He wanted a calling but he traveled to heavy to get one. He just wanted peace for once and to stop wrestling the depression dragon. Alcohol would defeat it for a few hours. He would scrounge the sofa for change just to by one more beer. Valium touched it a little but never squashed it like the booze. 

He met a schizophrenic man named Kenny on the way to go fishing\drinking. Kenny became an alcoholic medicating his mental illness the best a poor man could; with beer. He was eating French fries. He sat down to talk to Kenny and asked him what he wanted. Kenny wanted beer.  He told Kenny he would not buy him beer, but stopped to think “that’s what he wanted too”. He bought Kenny a beer and one for himself and sat and talked to him for about 30 minutes. 

Kenny was a bus ticket away or a check away from happiness. Kenny didn’t want to stop drinking and who could blame him. He had nothing to offer Kenny except a beer and to listen to him. He gave a damn about Kenny for about 30 minutes and then left. He didn’t judge Kenny because he knew Kenny’s life would be his if he didn’t die before it happened. 

He knew if he had a malignant brain tumor which can dictate all the symptoms of major depression, he would be instantly viewed in a different light.  So what is the difference because untreated depression results in death 15% of the time? He knew he would get a few benign prayers but no real help. 

The last sentence does not reflect my world, the rest does. I spent 10 days in a psych ward in Portland, Oregon. I got at least one visitor each day I was there. I was 5 of 20 who received any visitors at all. Before I was admitted I got at least 1 phone call each day to see how I was doing. I had someone offer me financial assistance with the stipulation of it not being paid back but it being paid forward. 

In one group therapy session a man who had been living on the streets was asked what the best trait he had was. He replied “I would die for anyone, for even those I do not know.” This man is valuable. This man is marginalized. This man wants a job. This man uses yarn for a belt. This man smells very bad. This man feels safer on the streets than in a shelter because of the horrible abuse he suffered as a child.

This man has something to offer. He made me look at the man on the on the corner holding the sign in a different light. If he can work, he should, but sometimes these folks suffer from real mental illness. If you stop your car, get out and talk to them you could tell if they were faking it or not. Simple solution, never done. 

Why is guilt the chemotherapy of mental illness? You would not tell someone who was dieing of cancer to quit being selfish by dieing. You would not explain to them how their family would never recover from their death. Why in the hell do we treat the mentally ill any differently? If the only thing we have to offer is guilt, then we really have nothing at all. 

Because in the dark recesses of people’s minds that have not had depression, it is a moral and selfish weakness whose end result of death is a selfish act. It is a selfish act instead of an attempt to alleviate the hell of suffering of a mentally ill person. 

Offer real help or shut up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He’d been deemed unfit for duty by the US Navy, Abilene Police Department and the FBI. All he ever wanted to do was to protect people from the evils of this world. It was rather ironic the world thought they needed protection from him. After all, he had battled psychotic depression and nobody can recover from that mental illness; they just go on shooting rampages in places like Blacksburg and Columbine. </p>
<p>Is mental illness a real disease or a weakness of character? He struggled with this dichotomy constantly. It was a real illness to others, but the long line of good men from which he came precluded him from accepting this fact. </p>
<p>He hated his vocation and wanted a calling. He wanted a calling but he traveled to heavy to get one. He just wanted peace for once and to stop wrestling the depression dragon. Alcohol would defeat it for a few hours. He would scrounge the sofa for change just to by one more beer. Valium touched it a little but never squashed it like the booze. </p>
<p>He met a schizophrenic man named Kenny on the way to go fishing\drinking. Kenny became an alcoholic medicating his mental illness the best a poor man could; with beer. He was eating French fries. He sat down to talk to Kenny and asked him what he wanted. Kenny wanted beer.  He told Kenny he would not buy him beer, but stopped to think “that’s what he wanted too”. He bought Kenny a beer and one for himself and sat and talked to him for about 30 minutes. </p>
<p>Kenny was a bus ticket away or a check away from happiness. Kenny didn’t want to stop drinking and who could blame him. He had nothing to offer Kenny except a beer and to listen to him. He gave a damn about Kenny for about 30 minutes and then left. He didn’t judge Kenny because he knew Kenny’s life would be his if he didn’t die before it happened. </p>
<p>He knew if he had a malignant brain tumor which can dictate all the symptoms of major depression, he would be instantly viewed in a different light.  So what is the difference because untreated depression results in death 15% of the time? He knew he would get a few benign prayers but no real help. </p>
<p>The last sentence does not reflect my world, the rest does. I spent 10 days in a psych ward in Portland, Oregon. I got at least one visitor each day I was there. I was 5 of 20 who received any visitors at all. Before I was admitted I got at least 1 phone call each day to see how I was doing. I had someone offer me financial assistance with the stipulation of it not being paid back but it being paid forward. </p>
<p>In one group therapy session a man who had been living on the streets was asked what the best trait he had was. He replied “I would die for anyone, for even those I do not know.” This man is valuable. This man is marginalized. This man wants a job. This man uses yarn for a belt. This man smells very bad. This man feels safer on the streets than in a shelter because of the horrible abuse he suffered as a child.</p>
<p>This man has something to offer. He made me look at the man on the on the corner holding the sign in a different light. If he can work, he should, but sometimes these folks suffer from real mental illness. If you stop your car, get out and talk to them you could tell if they were faking it or not. Simple solution, never done. </p>
<p>Why is guilt the chemotherapy of mental illness? You would not tell someone who was dieing of cancer to quit being selfish by dieing. You would not explain to them how their family would never recover from their death. Why in the hell do we treat the mentally ill any differently? If the only thing we have to offer is guilt, then we really have nothing at all. </p>
<p>Because in the dark recesses of people’s minds that have not had depression, it is a moral and selfish weakness whose end result of death is a selfish act. It is a selfish act instead of an attempt to alleviate the hell of suffering of a mentally ill person. </p>
<p>Offer real help or shut up!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard B</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68526</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68526</guid>
		<description>Clint,
Well, I think heterodoxy is the only way some of us can configure faith to find Christianity morally and intellectually coherent.  I think "Christianity" is a big tent, theologically speaking.  There have been a multitude of voices within the faith, some louder, some softer.  Some views are mainstream and others have the minority voice.  You and I are just a part of a two millennium old chorus. 

And I love to sing.

Rex,
Totally agree.  I think of Acts 8:

&lt;i&gt;The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clint,<br />
Well, I think heterodoxy is the only way some of us can configure faith to find Christianity morally and intellectually coherent.  I think &#8220;Christianity&#8221; is a big tent, theologically speaking.  There have been a multitude of voices within the faith, some louder, some softer.  Some views are mainstream and others have the minority voice.  You and I are just a part of a two millennium old chorus. </p>
<p>And I love to sing.</p>
<p>Rex,<br />
Totally agree.  I think of Acts 8:</p>
<p><i>The eunuch asked Philip, &#8220;Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?&#8221; Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.</p>
<p>As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, &#8220;Look, here is water. Why shouldn&#8217;t I be baptized?&#8221;</i></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68525</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68525</guid>
		<description>Missions is and should be about the good news of Jesus and the kingdom of God.  Thus it should not be simply about getting people a ticket to heaven.  But missions that is about the good news of Jesus and the kingdom is still an effort that calls people to baptism -- not for sectarian purposes but for the purpose of particpating in the new life of Jesus.

- Rex</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Missions is and should be about the good news of Jesus and the kingdom of God.  Thus it should not be simply about getting people a ticket to heaven.  But missions that is about the good news of Jesus and the kingdom is still an effort that calls people to baptism &#8212; not for sectarian purposes but for the purpose of particpating in the new life of Jesus.</p>
<p>- Rex</p>
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		<title>By: clint</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68524</link>
		<dc:creator>clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68524</guid>
		<description>Richard B,
I am all for a paradigm shift.  Faith expressed through love allows God to work no matter your Soteriology. And I have often wondered about Judas in context of John 18:9 “I have not lost one of those you gave me."
Even though you blow my mind from time to time I love thinking outside the box.  I think God can handle our trivial understanding of the big picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard B,<br />
I am all for a paradigm shift.  Faith expressed through love allows God to work no matter your Soteriology. And I have often wondered about Judas in context of John 18:9 “I have not lost one of those you gave me.&#8221;<br />
Even though you blow my mind from time to time I love thinking outside the box.  I think God can handle our trivial understanding of the big picture.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard B</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68521</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68521</guid>
		<description>Hi Clint,
I think about that a lot and have talked a lot about this with people in missions.

As far as I can tell, per Mike's post above, missionary work is changing its paradigm.  The shift is moving away from baptism reports back to the home church and more on being salt and light in the world.  Social justice is playing a bigger role.  Evangelism is going to look more and more like the work of someone like Larry James.  That is, evangelism and missions are more about declaring the Kingdom of God breaking in and then, crucially, making that happen!  Another way of phrasing it is that missions is more about who WE are than about who THEY are.  The point being, I think (I think) that this view can be reconciled with a very vibrant and passionate view of missions.

But you should note that I could be completely off my rocker.  I’m wondering about all this.  Thinking in through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Clint,<br />
I think about that a lot and have talked a lot about this with people in missions.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, per Mike&#8217;s post above, missionary work is changing its paradigm.  The shift is moving away from baptism reports back to the home church and more on being salt and light in the world.  Social justice is playing a bigger role.  Evangelism is going to look more and more like the work of someone like Larry James.  That is, evangelism and missions are more about declaring the Kingdom of God breaking in and then, crucially, making that happen!  Another way of phrasing it is that missions is more about who WE are than about who THEY are.  The point being, I think (I think) that this view can be reconciled with a very vibrant and passionate view of missions.</p>
<p>But you should note that I could be completely off my rocker.  I’m wondering about all this.  Thinking in through.</p>
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		<title>By: clint</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68519</link>
		<dc:creator>clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68519</guid>
		<description>Richard B,
Is evangelism relevant?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard B,<br />
Is evangelism relevant?</p>
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		<title>By: Ray B.</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68515</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 11:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68515</guid>
		<description>Questions to anyone who will answer : in light of passages such as Gal. 5 : 19 - 21 , Matt. 7 : 13 and 14 and 21 - 23 , 2 Thess. 1 : 5 - 10 and many other passages , what are we to teach about heaven , hell , lost , saved , etc .? Do these scriptures speak only of this life now or is there any eternity in the words ? Any kind  of eternal seperation ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Questions to anyone who will answer : in light of passages such as Gal. 5 : 19 - 21 , Matt. 7 : 13 and 14 and 21 - 23 , 2 Thess. 1 : 5 - 10 and many other passages , what are we to teach about heaven , hell , lost , saved , etc .? Do these scriptures speak only of this life now or is there any eternity in the words ? Any kind  of eternal seperation ?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard B</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68511</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68511</guid>
		<description>Rex,
I appreciate your comments.  I'm a doubt-filled person and hold my beliefs on these matters very lightly.

Clint,
Again, I can't speak for God, but many Christians mystics and some of the Church Fathers have articulated the view that the last one to be saved by God's purifying love will be Satan himself.  Julian of Norwich famously held this view (her famous articulation of this is the well-known but little understood: &lt;i&gt;"...All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well"&lt;/i&gt;).  

Generally, these conclusions are partly based on a certain interpretation (that I'm sympathetic to) of 1 Corinthians 15:28: &lt;i&gt;When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rex,<br />
I appreciate your comments.  I&#8217;m a doubt-filled person and hold my beliefs on these matters very lightly.</p>
<p>Clint,<br />
Again, I can&#8217;t speak for God, but many Christians mystics and some of the Church Fathers have articulated the view that the last one to be saved by God&#8217;s purifying love will be Satan himself.  Julian of Norwich famously held this view (her famous articulation of this is the well-known but little understood: <i>&#8220;&#8230;All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well&#8221;</i>).  </p>
<p>Generally, these conclusions are partly based on a certain interpretation (that I&#8217;m sympathetic to) of 1 Corinthians 15:28: <i>When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.</i></p>
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		<title>By: clint</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68510</link>
		<dc:creator>clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 02:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68510</guid>
		<description>Richard B,
If I understand your position, there is no permanent separation from God only purification.  If this is true what is your eschatology of evangelism and Lucifer?  I am truly interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard B,<br />
If I understand your position, there is no permanent separation from God only purification.  If this is true what is your eschatology of evangelism and Lucifer?  I am truly interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68502</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 21:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68502</guid>
		<description>One of my former teachers has shifted his understanding of hell from a place of literal eternal torment in fire to an eternal anhilation of evil.  I realize that there is a big theological debate in Evangelical Christianity over what hell is.  It is a subject that I have never read much on and I realize that with many of the biblical text being mentioned or alluded to in this blog that there are many exegetical issues to consider (e.g., who was the original audience?; is the passage meant to be read literally, figuratively, allegorically, etc...?).  I say all that to say, I am willing to admit that there is alot I do not know.  I am willing to grant that Richard B could be right and I am wrong.  In fact, I have enjoyed reading his thought, dialoging with him, and thinking about some things I have not thought of before.  The same goes for everyone else.

One thing I do know... what ever hell is, my goal is not simply to evade it.  My goal is to live in eternal fellowship with God and God's people.  Anything less than that is to cheapen the story of God's redemption history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my former teachers has shifted his understanding of hell from a place of literal eternal torment in fire to an eternal anhilation of evil.  I realize that there is a big theological debate in Evangelical Christianity over what hell is.  It is a subject that I have never read much on and I realize that with many of the biblical text being mentioned or alluded to in this blog that there are many exegetical issues to consider (e.g., who was the original audience?; is the passage meant to be read literally, figuratively, allegorically, etc&#8230;?).  I say all that to say, I am willing to admit that there is alot I do not know.  I am willing to grant that Richard B could be right and I am wrong.  In fact, I have enjoyed reading his thought, dialoging with him, and thinking about some things I have not thought of before.  The same goes for everyone else.</p>
<p>One thing I do know&#8230; what ever hell is, my goal is not simply to evade it.  My goal is to live in eternal fellowship with God and God&#8217;s people.  Anything less than that is to cheapen the story of God&#8217;s redemption history.</p>
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		<title>By: Leland</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68500</link>
		<dc:creator>Leland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 20:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68500</guid>
		<description>Lots O "ologies" but very few apologies. Happens when everyone is right and no one is humble enough to be wrong or least the possibility of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots O &#8220;ologies&#8221; but very few apologies. Happens when everyone is right and no one is humble enough to be wrong or least the possibility of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray B.</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68499</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 19:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://preachermike.com/2007/10/15/the-kingdom-of-god-2#comment-68499</guid>
		<description>Everyone will have to face judgement. My concern is for all of us who believe , if we are centering our focus on evangelism and reaching those who are lost. If your soteriology is a conviction that  there is a lost and saved state and if your eschatology includes a coming judgement then the citizens of the kingdom need to be zealous for preaching and teaching the gospel. And while we are preaching and teaching, we can also be a citizens with hearts of compassion helping people who are in the kingdom of darkness to be delivered from the darkeness into the kingdom of light and all that is involved in being in the kingdom of Jesus Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone will have to face judgement. My concern is for all of us who believe , if we are centering our focus on evangelism and reaching those who are lost. If your soteriology is a conviction that  there is a lost and saved state and if your eschatology includes a coming judgement then the citizens of the kingdom need to be zealous for preaching and teaching the gospel. And while we are preaching and teaching, we can also be a citizens with hearts of compassion helping people who are in the kingdom of darkness to be delivered from the darkeness into the kingdom of light and all that is involved in being in the kingdom of Jesus Christ.</p>
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