First, here are my thoughts on instrumental music vs. a cappella music.
But this isn’t about the issue of a cappella music, per se. It’s about the two-page ad in the most recent Christian Chronicle entitled “A Time to Speak.” If you haven’t seen it, you can read a similar version here.
There are some differences. For example, the ad online says, “We, as a group of younger ministers, present this article to the public to affirm that we stand firmly united for a cappella singing.” Then there is a long list of names of people from ages 17 to 77.
In the Chronicle ad, it says, “We, as a group of ministers who are age 55 and younger, present this statement to the public to affirm that we stand firmly united for acappella singing.” The list of names of “preachers already affirming this statement” in the Chronicle has expunged the names online of those who are female and those who are over 55. I counted over 300 names, though I only recognize four or five. (I don’t mean that to downplay the individuals — I just mean that I don’t know them.)
When I first read it, I had serious questions about the Chronicle’s advertising policy. The Chronicle has in recent years been such an effective tool for unity and missions. Why would they accept an ad like this? Does it promote unity or disunity? Does it force ministers to sign or resign from some churches? Would they receive a similar ad from those who also think it’s “time to speak” — but who disagree — complete with their own set of names?
I had a wonderful conversation with Lynn McMillon today, however. He assured me that the Chronicle has a brand new advertising policy. Something like this won’t appear there again. Congratulations to the Chronicle staff and board for reconsidering.
The ad directs people to the www.foracappella.org website. Here is a section from one of the articles the site includes to set us straight:
Some suggest that whether or not one uses instrumental music in worship really doesn’t matter. Since we all are imperfect and stand in the need of the grace of God, whether we use instruments is a moot question. They believe they can continue using the instrument without losing favor with God. Any issue that involves sin is a “salvation issue.” When people persist in sin and do not repent, they put their souls in peril (Heb. 10:26; 2 Pet. 3:9; Luke 13:3,5). The question here, then, is the use of instrumental music in worship sinful. Based upon the Scriptural evidence we have examined, we believe it is sinful to go beyond the authority of the New Testament and use musical instruments to worship. Some might use it for a time and then repent; surely God’s grace will forgive them in response to their repentance. What will happen to those who will not repent?
This is what’s most disturbing. I keep trying to convince young ministers that there aren’t many who think this is a salvation issue — but maybe I’m wrong! Perhaps some of those listed on the planning and advisory committee can assure us that this article is improperly placed on the website.
My dear friends, if the use of instrumental music will send a Christ-follower to hell, then we’re all going to hell. Over something. We’re all wrong about something!!
Those words above show that the deepest need is for us to understand what the gospel is.
Nearly as disturbing are these words from another recommended article:
Should those who oppose the use of instruments, then, extend their fellowship to those who do? Fellowship implies approval. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul addresses the question of fellowship with the man who has his father’s wife. He says that even the pagans do not approve of such behavior. For the Corinthians to continue to fellowship him would be to send a message of approval for something even pagans condemn. Paul then commands them to withdraw from him. Paul also writes in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 that “if anyone does not obey our instruction in this epistle, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.” To associate with those who have strayed, Paul says, is to send the message of approval of what they do. In the same way, John tells Christians that if someone “comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him” (2 John 10). Again the point is clear, to extend fellowship implies approval. This does not mean, of course, that we can have no contact with such people, but does mean that we do not extend to those who are engaging in a practice which is not in harmony with scripture the same fellowship we would to those who are in such harmony.
The world is disoriented, hurting, and lost. God is seeking to restore and repair what’s been broken. And someone is paying for a two-page ad in the Chronicle for this?
One of the most gifted young ministers I know in Churches of Christ sent me a brief email a few days ago. It said, “Yup. I’m out.” I hope he won’t leave. But if he does, I understand. And I know he’ll still be a powerful servant in the kingdom.
“The world is disoriented, hurting, and lost. God is seeking to restore and repair what’s been broken. And someone is paying for a two-page ad in the Chronicle for this?”
My thoughts exactly.
I didn’t realize until today that one of their articles on http://www.foracappella.org is a response to my earlier blog on instrumental music.
If you’re going to carve up the Body of Christ over an issue, it had better be over something important. I wonder what will come next. Will this group of young ministers move on to dividing over hand-clapping or church steeples or something equally insane? God have mercy on us!
Mike,
Thank you for saying this. I read the ad this weekend and was sick to my stomach. The main question I asked was just how much a two page ad costs and what better use that money could have been put toward.
I am a young minister under the age of 55 and I am so very tired of listening to clanging cymbals.
There’s an ad I’d like to see.
This news is very depressing.
Okay. I didn’t jump up and down and shout AMEN! when I saw the ad, but hey, if they want to spend a little money (looks like if all those names kicked in a buck fifty, that’d be enough) to get their views across, I can live with that.
And while chasing the links revealed to Mike some rather disgusting writing, the ad itself in the Chronicle was tasteful enough. It didn’t send anyone to hell.
In opinions liberty, right?
Very depressing. Pretty close to out myself. Kind of ironic that some of the sermon outlines are on powerpoint — seems that Corinthians is silent on the whole powerpoint issue too. Don’t know why we would take the risk of offending our wrathful and apparently thin-skinned God.
I missed the ad. I think the CC has been struggling with what I think will be a increasing divide among CofC’s. I hear people say that this thinking is dying and that as you say “there aren’t many who think this is a salvation issue”. But I’ve even commented here before that I don’t think that is true. There are many. I think a majority due to the many, many small rural congregations that can recite the same line of reasoning about “continuing in sin”.
It’s sad to say, but I think we are healthier since leaving. The same old arguments sound silly to others.
What I wonder is if this difference widens how will those so determined to call out the differences, differentiate themselves?
Here are just a few questions on some of the comments made.
One said, “Don’t know why we would take the risk of offending our wrathful and apparently thin-skinned God.” Question: Does the Bible ever speak of the wrath of God and would that be considered “important” or “not important?”
Another said, “Pretty close to out myself.” Question: If you did not believe what a fellowship of “believers” believe then why wouldn’t you go except to stay and cause division?
Still another said, “If you’re going to carve up the Body of Christ over an issue, it had better be over something important.” Question: What is something important? Who gets determine what is important and just how did you arrive at that conclusion?
“…Based upon the Scriptural evidence we have examined, we believe it is sinful to go beyond the authority of the New Testament …”
I certainly hope (but don’t see how) they can apply that same reasoning across the board, not just regarding instrumental music. To use the logic that “what isn’t explicitly authorized is sin” has all kinds of holes, IMHO.
…
TCS wrote: “It’s sad to say, but I think we are healthier since leaving. The same old arguments sound silly to others.”
Amen.
…
Mike wrote: “One of the most gifted young ministers I know in Churches of Christ sent me a brief email a few days ago. It said, “Yup. I’m out.” I hope he won’t leave. But if he does, I understand.”
This statement bothers me (assuming the young minster was referring to leaving the CofC), and really betrays the fact, that at the core of this issue is a deep-rooted pride in our division/heritage.
Don’t be sad about someone leaving the CofC — rejoice that he’s still preaching Good News, regardless of the exact notation on the sign out front of the gathering of believers. Rejoice that the group of believers is autonomous (something else CofC’ers continue to take pride in, collectively of course… lol.)
Until all CofC’ers lose the pride in CofC ‘heritage’, they’ll always have divisions about issues like this, believing that instrumental music distinguishes them, and if the CofC loses that, I’m afraid many will feel like they no longer have an identity they can take pride in. They might only be able to take pride in Christ, not their religious organization. Yikes!
The same can be said of any number of interpretations that splinter and divide the various CofC’s. Pride in “we’ve got this salvation-depending ‘jot’ figured out and obviously you don’t” … nevermind the bigger issue of unity among believers so that unbelievers can be reached.
…
Finally, Go Rockies! What a fantastic game… might end up being the best game of the entire playoffs. I’m still trying to wind down after that game.
Caleb, your second question makes me wonder if we remember the point of the Restoration Movement: to create unity in the body of Christ. That unity comes from our shared faith in God and in striving to shape our hearts after God’s heart through our discipleship of Jesus. Unity is NOT based on sharing opinions about methods of worship. Historically, we never claimed to be the only Christians (granted in recent years some CofC’ers have made that arrogant claim)- just Christians only . That means, then, that we ought to fellowship everyone who claims Christ as their Savior and who lives within the Kingdom. We’re supposed to be striving to restore unity to His Bride. Your suggestion to someone that they should leave this fellowship because of a differing opinion seems to run counter to the spirit of the Restoration Movement.
Mike, as a young minister I’m hanging in with the CofC, but I think I’m done with the Chronicle. To their credit, they did say it was a paid advertisement at the bottom of the page. Still, I think there are better things I can spend my time reading.
I knew a few of the names and I have worshipped with those men. As TCS pointed out, some of them are from very small rural churches. The names that I know are of men who love the Lord and want to serve him. Even if I disagree with their opinions, I will love and respect them. They have the same right that I do to worship God in the manner that they feel is appropriate.
I don’t know any two people who agree on everything. I pray that we can all accept each other as forgiven children of God.
The Chronicle does good work and Bobby Ross has done an amazing job in recent years. I do not know of any other denominational paper that has found the kind of broad readership within a particular fellowship. Many of our other papers have not accomplished this. I think a distinction needs to be made between the posture of the CC and other major CoC publications. Even on at its worst, the CC is better than the rest and a publication that we can take pride in as a fellowship.
I also applaud the revised standards for advertisements, but hope that we can all caution against over reactions. Those in CoCs that only find out about those different from them through this article need to visit with folks outside of their circles a little more often. Ministers afraid that someone is going to hijack their pulpits and force them to bring in a band should stop listening to the conspiracy theorists among us.
While I recognize the sincerity of the signers and the passion they feel for this issue, would be that we as a fellowship were more inclined to pay for a 2 page ad protesting war instead of this insular debate in our extraordinarily small corner of Christendom.
ksw
I, like the signers of the recent ad., follow the hermeneutical principle that biblical silence on an issue is implicitly restrictive. So I, and a collection of other ministers, will be taking a concerted stand against hymnals, in-door baptism and paying for ads in national publications while the vast majority of the world lives below the poverty line.
Now that’s a gospel issue.
Caleb asked, “If you did not believe what a fellowship of “believers” believe then why wouldn’t you go except to stay and cause division?”
Because, Caleb, we are never told in Scripture to get out and go find people just like us. If we believe Romans 14-15, we are to explore every avenue of belonging together. It is our common Lord and the Holy Spirit that binds us together … not our unanimous vote on various doctrines. To suggest that someone just get out is to say “I don’t need you” … which is a clear violation of 1 Corinthians 12. “Causing Division” is not the same thing as honest questioning … and dealing with the text in both a spiritual and common sense fashion.
When we boil down the church into 5 acts of worship and 5 steps to salvation we have given a new starting place from which sectarianism extends. The starting place is Jesus. What did He say about the issue? It is His church. Im not saying we have nothing to learn from the epistles, but we are not the church of St. Paul. Paul pulled his hair out over this kind of divisive thinking when men tried to form the church into their own image. I’m afraid we’re not far from the foot of Mt. Sinai dancing around a golden calf.
Caleb asked, “If you did not believe what a fellowship of “believers” believe then why wouldn’t you go except to stay and cause division?”
Because, Caleb, we are never told in Scripture to get out and go find people just like us. If we believe Romans 14-15, we are to explore every avenue of belonging together. It is our common Lord and the Holy Spirit that binds us together … not our unanimous vote on various doctrines. To suggest that someone just get out is to say “I don’t need you” … which is a clear violation of 1 Corinthians 12. “Causing Division” is not the same thing as honest questioning … and dealing with the text in both a spiritual and common sense fashion.
When we boil down the church into 5 acts of worship and 5 steps to salvation we have given a new starting place from which sectarianism extends. The starting place is Jesus. What did He say about the issue? It is His church. Im not saying we have nothing to learn from the epistles, but we are not the church of St. Paul. Paul pulled his hair out over this kind of divisive thinking when men tried to form the church into their own image. I’m afraid we’re not far from the foot of Mt. Sinai dancing around a golden calf. Acappella Music has saved us!
I asked this question on the other thread and am waiting on an answer, but it goes directly to the issue of this post as well:
In Rev. 5:8 it says God will be worshiped with instrument and song in heaven. What do these signers do with that?
so much energy on issues…Lord help us all…and you’re right, we all are going to hell but thanks to our Savior who threw a white sheet over us for some reason and hooked us up with some amazing grace.
Before you toss this issue of the Christian Chronicle, please read the article on the front page about church planting. My son and his family are reaching out to their neighbors in East Hollywood to bring them the Good News - and THAT article in the Chronicle is worth your time.
I too recognized several names on that list (most from my childhood camp days at WKYC) and while seeing their names saddened me, I still feel love in my heart for them.
That said, this issue isn’t worth the time (or money - holy cow! I haven’t priced a CC ad, but I’m assuming a two-page spread would feed a family of eight in Africa for life!) it takes to refute it.
Unfortunately, an entire generation of God’s people have heard or seen a strong biblical message in support of a cappella singing - and it hasn’t changed their lives. Many young people believe the “singing only” position is nothing more than an outdated “church of Christ tradition” — largely because this is the only issue the c of C is adamantly passionate about. I believe, therefore, today’s generation of talented young Christians deserves to know what the New Testament says about feeding the poor, taking care of the sick and defending the helpless. This will not happen if we remain silent.
Candace…that is awesome! The Chronicle has lots of great news and I love Bobby Ross.
Depressing Truth: They will say either (1) that’s in heaven and there are things that will happen in heaven that do not happen on earth or (2) they’re not real instruments … just like there are no literal streets of gold … it’s just a word picture. My thought: Wouldn’t God be … um… “funny” … to use a word picture of soul-damning sinful activity to illustrate heaven?
Not only is the front page article on “Church Planting” wonderful, so are the book reviews on church planting by a talented young minister, fresh out of Harding Graduate School of Religion, who’s going to plant an instrumental church.
Ironies abound.
I think it would be safe to say that not all of the signatories of the resolution would agree with all of the articles that have been published at foracappella.org. They have signed a document that puts them firmly united for a cappella singing. If that were as far as it went, I could sign it. I could also sign one that put me firmly united with others for instrumental praise.
It’s all in the wording, you see.
Do you think all those men (and women) know what they have signed? Do you think the signers all believe the material in this ad and the website they willingly and intentionally became a part of?
I’m not in favor of the Christian Chronicle ad. However, I keep hearing that we should be openminded and not exclusive. Then, when a newspaper tries to be inclusive, we exclude them. It seems that we are to be openminded as long as folks agree with us–seems very similar to Democrats and Republicans telling one another they shouldn’t be politcal when they really mean “Your politics should agree with my politics”
Jezebel and Ahab - now that’s one I hadn’t heard before. I would encourage anyone to listen to Rick Atchley’s three sermons on this topic at http://www.rhchurch.org. Rick did a good job. I personally think this is smoke and mirrors. These folks know this is a dying issue and are desperately trying to stir up the masses. Sad really.
Keep this in mind (my apologies for not knowing who to give credit to for saying this):
“You don’t want to judge Christ by Christians, someone once said. He is perfect, they are not.”
Amen and thank you Lord Jesus for your merciful love.
There are a lot of policies that need to change. The Christian Chronicle isn’t the only institution that needs to think twice about what gets in what stays out of their paper. For example, um, I’m thinking of institutions like Abilene Christian University who continue to shun and discourage women from leading publicly in church/chapel/etc. It was that fine institution and its leaders who drove away many whom I love.
John D,
Continuing along with you.
It seems VERY clear that the full witness of Scripture, from the beginning to the ending worship scenes in Revelation, is that God is NOT offended by instruments as a means of praise. That is the CLEAR witness of Scripture. To argue that God is offended by instrumental praise, to swim against the tide of Scripture, you would need a very clear prohibition to the contrary in the New Testament. And there just isn’t one.
In short, this bit of doctrine:
God is offended by instrumental worship.
simply isn’t biblical. There is no Scripture that can defend that statement, let alone the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
But to insist that God is offended by something that isn’t clearly witnessed to in Scripture is both biblically and morally irresponsible.
And here’s the thing. I don’t like instrumental praise. I’m a full a cappella person. But what I don’t believe is the Divine Offense part (as it isn’t biblical). That part displays poor bible knowledge and a willingness to let human tradition trump God’s mission. It’s idolatrous.
Eddy - what is your definition of “inclusive”? Most of the writing I read says if you don’t believe exactly as we believe, which, of course, is exactly how the NT church believed, you’re doomed to Hell. I mean, c’mon. 99.9% of these people have zero interest in any unification talk with the Christian or DOC groups.
I’m on the list. When I first agreed to put my name on the list I believed the article was only going to express our appreciation and belief that we should uphold a cappella praise. When I read it the other day, I didn’t endorse nor appreciate the strong everyone-else-is-going-to-hell stance.
I believe the draft went through numerous changes which evolved into the ad. I guess I had lost track of it. Now I regret my name was put on it. Even though I still do not believe I’ve reached a point where I could personally worship with an instrument, I don’t think I have a right, or the biblical backing, to make such a hard line stance about it.
Wow, dust storms prevail when so many feet keep shaking the dust off. It’s kinda hard to sing, period, when we’re all choking on so much dirt! Not to mention all those clods messing with my piano.
Somewhere in Heaven, God is pleading for more trumpets to announce His glory and for Bach to direct the choir to sing louder.
CofC members needn’t feel left out of the dust storms brewing over church music. Within the wider catholic community of believers there are hefty patches of sod being lifted up in discordant chorus (e.g., ‘Praise Bands Annoy God’, a FaceBook group, could easily line up against this current group of CofC crusaders when it comes to celestial music spats).
My prayer is that the God of peace (shalom) will enter into many hearts when every moment of worship – individual or corporate – is presented into His throne room. To our God of such creative wonder and magnificent beauty, much should be offered. He will be pleased!
What is the difference between taking an ad in a newspaper, and spending money to remodel a perfectly functional auditorium?
Scale?
rt to the Lord?
We left an a capella congregation for an instrumental one just over a year ago. Most of our family and friends have been supportive of our decision, but we know there are some who believe we have lost our salvation. It’s mind-boggling that this non-biblical issue can be such a deal breaker for people who claim to follow only the Bible.
Echoing what Depressing Truth said up there, a big part of our decision to move came down to this: We didn’t want our girls to grow up being taught that the Bible says things it doesn’t really say. And we didn’t want them, when the time comes, to have to decide between getting married at their home church and having instrumental music in their weddings. I personally got really tired of brides having to agonize over this issue (I was one of them).
From all the CoC weddings I attended in my 35 years in the church, I’ve heard the a cappella version of “Endless Love” enough to probably qualify for therapy. (shudder)
Not long ago, I was visiting a church on a Wednesday night. The service was dedicated to kicking off their small group ministry. The speaker laid out several reasons for transitioning into small groups. The primary justification, that he cited, was that it was the way that the first century church did worship. I quickly moved to the back of the balcony for fear of a lightning strike. The speaker was Des Steyn who is the Minister of Small Groups at Richland Hills cofC. What makes this justification valid for small groups and invalid for non-instrumental music?
Let me try again–Simplistic View: DOC and Christian church left us and now wonder why they are not accepted by folks they left. Confused View: Why doesn’t Christian church accept DOC? Random: Why use music in worship (If based upon “command”, what kind of music is commanded? If based upon “pattern”, gotta wrestle with “tradition and restorationism. Muddy: If instruments are used, shouldn’t only instruments of Bible (harp, etc) be used? Muddier: Should fellowsip be withdrawn from only the person (s) playing instrument or folks in pew listening to it? Huh: Should we withdraw from non-singers in pew at acapela churches? Duh: Did a man after God’s own heart play instrument but fail to make melody in his heart to the Lord?
Dear Depressing Truth… I think your truth is liberating and exhilerating. I’m with you brother!
You have to wonder what purpose this ad really serves. Do these people really think that someone is going to change their mind on this issue based on a statement that ends in a whole list of names. No. It’s apparent that the purpose of the ad, like allot of other similar ventures in our fellowship, is about lining up folks behind a position and drawing up battle lines on which we can fight. Either you are on one side or the other. And if you are on the other side, you can expect to be treated like an enemy. It’s all about using fear and intimidation to keep the flock in check.
I just wonder how far these folks are willing to go with this. What will they say about those of their group who would fellowship with their brothers and sisters who worship with instruments. Will they exclude them too for “accepting those whose behavior is “sinful”?
I will admit that I am no new testament scholar, despite what my transcript from ACU says, but I do not ever recall having seen anything in there about allowing air conditioning, heating, water fountains, or bathrooms. If we are not going to be allowed these either, based upon such logic, I am out too!
Josh,
Thank you for your comments. I am so sorry for your situation. I asked the question because I know of someone who signed a similar ad (remember the Christian Affirmation?) and I believe that he felt “used’ to some extent by the planners and promoters of this agenda. I wish the men on the For Acappella planning committee would put everything on the table before asking folks to sign. They have met together and united and stated their beliefs quite clearly, as we can see from the articles on their website, but I wonder if all those who signed had even seen the website.
This attitude was one of the biggest reasons that our family left the Church of Christ (non-) denomination.
I can pinpoint an exact moment when this issue of instrumental music was settled for me once and for all. I was a senior in high school and it was time for our vespers services. The ceremony was held at the largest Baptist church in town and there were 3 or 4 ministers who led the service…all from different denominations. The preacher from the CoC where I grew up led the opening prayer. I noticed that when the song service began, he didn’t sing. I have to say that I was actually quite embarrassed for him. There he was, on stage, in front of 300+ people looking defiant and obstinate. It was at that moment that I saw just how narrow-minded and quite frankly ,prideful, the CoC must look to other believers. It occurred to me right then and there that this issue (using instruments or not)couldn’t possibly be more important than the overall message of the vespers service, let alone the message of Jesus!
(BTW, this is still The Depressing Truth, but I’m trading in for a more upbeat persona today.)
Here’s some more depressing truth: How could so many CoC preachers and ministers on that ad be so biblically illiterate?
It’s an abomination.
To wit…
Imagine you get an intelligent, unchruched person who has no religious history or bias. You have this person sit down and read the whole bible, cover to cover. After they are done you have this conversation:
You: “After reading the bible cover to cover answer me this question: If you had to vote on the question ‘Is God for or against instrumental praise?’ what would be your vote based on what you’ve read?”
Them: “I’d say God is for it.”
You: “Why do you say that?”
Them: “For a positive reason and a negative one. On the positive side, God is worshiped with instruments from the beginning of the bible to the final scenes of worship in Revelation. That seems, to me at least, to indicate that God is fine with instrumental praise.”
You; “What is the negative argument?”
Them: “Well, as I read the bible it seemed to me that if God is truly offended by something He just goes off on it. Over and over. He’s really clear about what offends him.”
You: “Go on.”
Them: “And, well, God never goes off on instrumental praise. Not once. Thus, I find it impossible to believe God would be upset by it.”
You: “Thank you. Let me ask you one more thing. If there was a group of Christian preachers that concluded that God was indeed offended by instrumental music, what would be you impression of them?”
Them: “Well, my first impression would be, have they read the bible?”
The End.
The future of the church will change. Being a younger minister we are concerned about the lost. I don’t think in the future power point will be a big deal, or all of these issues. Our generation is tired of all the fussing and fighting over these issues. Were tired of the Corporate and the politics of the churches you see today. It will be a more relaxed enviornment. Coffee houses with couches perhaps. Candles, incense, dimmed lights, atmosphere centered for comfort for outsiders and communion with God Alighty. Open dialogue talking about Jesus who changes lives will replace classes. Open prayers. Focusing on the function of the first century Chritians: faith, hope, love, grace, community. Worshipping God will be in spirit( heart, soul, strength, mind) & truth (striving to please God). Short challenge from scripture to be lived out for the week from the minister. Songs will be more directed to the Almighty. Communion will be spent talking about what his means to us and how it has transformed our lives as we eat with each other. Prayers of healing and blessings will be offered at the end. I pray that our generation will choose leaders that have the heart of David to guide us, take care of us, shephard our souls. I do think we as a younger generation will hold on to the essentials of baptism and salvation of God’s grace through Jesus Christ. We all must realize that even thought the church may change it’s idenity over the years and it has. It still has held on to the essential doctrines of salvation: Divinity of Christ, Christ died for our sins, was barried and rose on the third day. God wants all men to come to repentance. He wants all men to have a relationship with Him. He has offered that grace to all mankind. We recieved through obeident faith: repentence, confession, baptism, discipleship. What a precious gift we have! GRACE!
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame and sat down at the firght hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.” Heb. 12:1-3. NIV
To me, this ad and the response to it is heartbreaking. Once again instead of dialog we choose division.
How many years have we been debating this issue now? Even the best scholars among us continue to disagree. Why can’t we just accept one another as Scripture teaches- instruments or not?
I, too, signed the ad. But it’s not at all what I thought it was going to be. And I, like probably lots of other signatories, don’t like how it reads now and don’t agree with the positions staked out in the articles on http://www.foracappella.org. And I’m wondering? Do those men who are listed there really, really believe this will send people to hell? How has this conviction worked with their own children and grandchildren?
And now I’m finding out that the Christian Chronicle accepted money for this two-page ad while, in the same issue, asking someone who is planting an instrumental church to do their book reviews?
I was . . . Duped.
Strange. Some say this issue is not as important as the gospel and social justice. However , when the music question is presented look at the response on this blog. From both sides.
While having lunch at Subway with my dear friend, Randy, we struck up a conversation with a young lady next to us. “Lisa” was filling out an application to work there. Randy asked a bit about her and she mentioned that she’s a single mom. He offered to pray for her.
Before taking another bite of his sandwich, Randy whispered to me, “Lisa doesn’t care a thing about instrumental music.”
I’m wondering if we took out a two-page ad in the Chronicle calling for a day-long fast and prayer for lost and struggling people in our lives, that we would reach out to the Lisas of our world with the unconditional love of Jesus.
Ray B,
Did you ever get back to me about the insturmental praise in heaven? I’m still waiting to hear back from you.
Thanks, Josh, for your words. Ray, it isn’t strange at all. When someone says that this issue is a central matter of faith and that it is connected with salvation and fellowship, it becomes very important. Not the use or non-use of instrumental music. But the claim that’s being made. It’s a claim that is wrong and divisive. Note what Paul does when people try to make nonessential things sound as if they’re essential.
Didn’t the early church chant?
I love Jesus and the body of Christ he died for. I also love the Churches of Christ, a fellowship within that body of Christ, for whom I perhaps would not be a Christian today if it were not for some men and women within the CoC who desired to share their faith with me. I still serve as an Evangelist with the CoC but it is articles like this that make me wonder why.
Some congregations use instruments and some do not. The congregation where I serve does not but what business is it of our if another autonomous congregation chooses to use instruments? OUR BUSINESS IS THE LOST AND HURTING IN OUR OWN COMMUNITY WHO CONTINUE TO BE MISSED BECAUSE WE PLACE AN ISSUE LIKE THIS AS A “MAJOR.”
It sounds like some are trying to make it a big issue. And that some who defend singing without the instrument have missed the point about the gospel being the center , core issue . A new kind of reverse legalism.
As for fellowship and association with those who have “lost their way”, when is it ever wrong to show love?
In the midst of this–may your Kingdom come and may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
That is patently false. Romans 14-15 clearly teaches that we should fellowship people whose actions we do not personally approve.
I am 50 years old so, if I were a minister, I could have signed also. Oh wait, that was just an erroneous claim, wasn’t it? “We’ll take any signature” should be the claim apparently. Yes, I’m a little bitter; yes, I’m very frustrated by this and similar non-issues. I said I was 50 for a reason…that being said, I spent half of my life as an Episcopalian. I now am very glad that I came from that background because as I watch you folks who are burdened with the “Church of Christ baggage” (please take no offense as I have my own set of bags!). The open-minded among you know to what I refer. There is a reason that the rural Churches of Christ are dying and I have no doubts it is due to the hard-line worship of tradition that erroneously replaces relationship building with our Savior. These dying churches are not moving/growing in Spirit and the leaders are scared of their own shadows. The man who stands in our pulpit most Sundays is a member of this “team” on the foracapella website. He will stand on Oct. 28th and waffle as he does most of the time, but I really hope that the griddle will heat up enough this time to find a commitment on his part AND on the part of any other person who signed. I feel horribly for you folks who signed and were hood winked by a misdirected heart(s). I think you should hold accountable those who put you in this position. Please do not say “it’s not worth the controversy” because it is. False teaching needs to be confronted, even if it’s 55 or older.
I am encouraged as I read many of your thoughts. Apparently the Holy Spirit is on the move…imagine that!
On Sunday Mornings I teach a class at the c of C and then run over to a warehouse church. I counsel former c of C members (the average individual has bounced from church to church for years because their foundation was so warped and they are still seeking the “right” church). I’m tired of a fundamentalist-denominational church. I tried to stay but i’m not that “expletive” powerful. I don’t know these people (signers), and yet they are probably good people with great hearts who serve their church and love the people. And yet….why?…”and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.” I’m not saying they have neglected I just say this is a moot point…
I remember years ago sitting in an Elders meeting where they decided to pave the alley going to the church parking lot because people’s cars were having to weave through pot holes and dirt was being splashed on their cars. And the line item they cut out of the budget…children’s home. I went home and drank a few beers after that one and started looking for a new job.
Preacherman, you say baptism is essential. Do you fellowship those who diagree? On what basis? Does your response to grace include accepting all forms of baptism/music? The witnesses referenced in your comment certainly were not recipients of grace through baptism or was their response to God different from ours since they were under Old Testament? (Cf Same argument given by some regarding music issue)
* , TDT, Elmo, ?,
You claim that the CLEAR witness of Scripture does not prohibit instrumental worship. When did the CLEAR witness of Scripture become your benchmark? Even a red letter verse would not persuade you. You cite the Scriptures when it favors your AGENDA and scoff at them when you disagree. What about the CLEAR witness of Scripture with regard to the role of women in the church?
The striking thing to me is that while many on this blog probably don’t agree with the point or tenor of the ad/article, it’s still a matter of great discussion.
Is this because this argument is so much in our theological DNA that we can’t let it go, or because groups like this continue to bring it up? It seems like it’s continuing to rehash old arguments that 1) will never convince the non-instrumentalists and 2) doesn’t find common ground on which non-instrumentalists/instrumentalist or Church of Christ/Baptists can pursue the Kingdom of God. Arguments like this only serve one kingdom’s purposes and it’s the kingdom of this world and its influencer.
I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, but sometimes I wonder if it’s just time to walk away from this one as much as possible and let the other side rail against us until they run out of steam or Jesus comes back.
I would venture to say that, in general, the CofC has been going through an upheavel over the last 10-15 years. I grew up in this church and have seen a drastic shift in basic beliefs in many churches over this period of time. In Sunday school, I was taught that we are here to save the other Christian denominations. I can remember the classroom and the teacher that said it. I guess what I’m getting at is, “Why did they pay for this ad?” “What purpose does it serve for them?” If they are paying for an ad to run in the CC about an issue like this, was it to establish a pride in what they believe, to impose what they believe on others and motivate them to change what they believe or was it something else? There’s so much crap in the world and so many non-believers, it seems to me that we should be spending money more on ads to get people into the flock. Once we’ve got them all in, maybe then we should “duke it out” over the nuances.
Instruments or no instruments. Again? [sigh]
I’ve stated and reiterated my belief on this subject ad nauseum and refuse to do so again.
However, I’ve a neighbor in the house across the sidewalk from me who is a dis-fellowshipped Watch Tower follower [well, sort of} - he needs the nourishing truth of who Jesus really is and the joy of His salvation offer. I've an online Wiccan friend that is toying with Mormonism who needs the love of the true Jesus brought to her. I've a friend and neighbor who is fighting to protect her transplanted kidney, the only functioning one she has now. She exists on under $700 a month. She needs and seeks encouragement and prayers. Do any of them, like Randy and Jim's Lisa encounter, care one twit about piano or no piano? I don't think so! They hunger and thirst after truth and God's love. They want to know Jesus and Him crucified.
btw-my beloved dad was one of the No Instruments group and was vehemently against Power Point etc. When I asked him when had he stopped using and studying his Bible, he shot a strange, 'what are you talking about' look at me. As I headed out the door in a defensive action, I reminded him that the Bible is no longer printed on the handset printers, rather by computer. He never said another word about power point, but held steadfast to the 'no instruments' stance. Bless him and how he loved His LORD too! All this to say, how sad we are at it again about an issue God never made into an issue of worship, neither in OT nor NT. [sigh]
I did not sign the ad so I’m GUESSING it was done to let folks know that contary to publicized opinions, some younger preachers hold on to the “old paths” as opposed to all new generation preachers being “progressive” (Labels or libels?)
I once had a discussion with one of the people on the list in the Chronicle because he was angry that I wouldn’t preach on instrumental music. He loved to play the guitar and his favorite singer was Hank Williams Jr. I asked him if he played any worship/religous songs on his guitar and he assured me he didn’t because that would be offensive to God! Yet, somehow, God was pleased when he sang drinkin’, cheatin’ bar songs….with his instrument? He had no answer to that. The problem is still the MIA gospel in most CofC’s.
I think we need to understand that Unity is not Uniformity.
preacherman wrote: I think we need to understand that Unity is not Uniformity.
Right on. Especially since uniformity on every issue at every level is impossible for two people, let alone millions.
If “fellowship implies approval” did Jesus approve of the tax collectors’ ethics? Did he approve of the woman’s adultery? Did he approve of the sin that was inherent in every human he ever came in contact with? Who was he supposed to hang out with?
My wife left me a few months ago, and out of desperation I’ve looked everywhere (including this blog) for some meaning. At times its a great community. I’ve really come to respect for the blog owner.
And I sincerely mean no offense when I say that when you church of Christ folks wrestle with such benign issues it makes me not want to approve of you by “fellowshiping” with you either.
But good luck in trying to get it all figured out.
Just a Guy … be patient with us. Sometimes we don’t look or act much like Christ. Forgive us for that. And thanks for the reminder of what’s really important!
I really didn’t want to think that people still really thought this way. How sad.
“It’s a claim that is wrong and divisive.”
Divisiveness is the issue. So what do we do?
Sorry the baby pushed enter too soon…
Talk about beating a dead horse… Really I just don’t know if this so called “issue” deserves a response anymore. Maybe it is time to just walk away in hope and prayer that those who view God’s love so legalistically will get an even bigger dose of his grace and not leave people aching in their wake.
Hi Troy,
Two quick comments.
First, the women’s role isn’t clear. Scripture presents a mixed picture that requires discernment (because it’s mixed). Now, you can disagree with that. But the real point for this post is if there is a similar mixed view about instruments presented in Scripture. And the answer is: None that I can see. It seems universally in favor of instrumental praise with nary a contrary witness. Do you disagree? Because you can end this debate once and for all by pointing to just one verse in the bible that shows that God is offended by instrumental praise. Conversely, I can easily point to verses that show women in leadership roles or speaking in the assembly. The point, again, is that I actually read the bible.
Second, from a rhetorical stance, and I say this because I want to respect you intellectually, is that it really doesn’t matter what I believe on other issues given the issue at hand. Proving my inconsistency is irrelevant. That’s Logic 101. You should enroll in the course.
Cheers!
Who is it that is bringing the issue front and center ? Who is it that seems to have lost the way in teaching and living the gospel ? Who is it that is now being critical ? Who is it that is now being negative about the freedom to speak a conviction of the heart ? Who is it that is now being the new Pharisees by attacking those who worship without the instrument and act as though they have arrived and are more spiritual and have a better perspective on the kingdom ? Who is it that rails against bretheren who are trying to their best understanding to be loyal to scripture , all of it , apply it constantly with great compassion , reaching out to a lost and hurting world and still have heart felt convictions about doctrine but get put down as narrow and unloving and uncaring and missing the whole point of the gospel ?
I don’t know, Ray. Who? I haven’t seen that attitude at all on this post or the comments. What I’ve seen on the part of the “instrumentalists” is the desire to co-exist.
OH! And I did have a very comforting thought about this just now…AT LEAST they picked the CChronicle which is mainly read by preacher/elder/professor types instead of the Dallas Morning News or Abilene Reporter News where it could actually hurt someone.
It is amazing how much time our fellowship as a whole takes to move such a small distance. This tiresome discussion is one of the reasons I am happy that I left the full-time ministry a long-time ago.
I’ll admit I’ve barely skimmed the comments on this post, but I’ve seen the ugly tenor on this blog over the past week.
I bet God would get incredibly excited if all of the passion on this blog were channeled into something useful… maybe, poverty/injustice for example.
Isaiah 58 - Nah, that was OT. I’m sure God doesn’t care about that poverty stuff anymore.
So … Do We Need Them?
qb et al that follow and support my Padres - here’s the above the fold headline from the SD Union Tribune today. Says it all, doesn’t it.
Rockies don’t crumble; it’s Padres who tumble
Another reminder why people my age (twenties) are leaving formal church settings in droves so that they can go do ministry with people the way Jesus did.
Bicker, ticker, yada, yada, let’s go find some people to love!
It appears to me that there is one main thing driving the Chronicle ad. Pride. Wanta know what it looks like in the religious world when that pride takes control and is never squelched? See Shi’ite-Sunni war. Just saying………that’s our end game if we persist in being prideful people.
And they’ll know we are Christians by our……….what?
DU
Duh David! By our a cappella singing.
I think if we could all just stand together and sing 728b, then everything would be alright again.
A few random thoughts:
First, since when is someone 55 years old a young minister? 55? Seriously? In the circles I run in, 30 and under is a young minister. 55 is on the home stretch to retirement. (In the tone of Jeff Foxworthy) You might be an old and out of touch denomination if your young pastors have grandchildren.
Second. Pray its not your DNA. Fish swim. Birds fly. My yellow lab retrieves everything I throw and the church of Christ argues about inconsequential things. 77 comments on music? Seriously? There’s a reason people are ignoring you. It makes them better people. This is something you can learn too. Ignore these folks who write these ads. It will be hard not too. Get a friend to help you. Ignore. My dog can’t ignore the stick I throw, unless I help her to it. It’s not your fault. someone did this to you. But you don’t have to do it anyone else. I know, I know, you want to save the denomination. That leads me to another random thoughts.
Third. There are people out here, like me, who have something to learn from you if you can find something important to talk about? If you can’t, then you will be just one more voice that we ignore. Because it’s not really good news.
Just some thoughts. Don’t know if they are helpful.
Not again!!!
This is one reason I am so fed up with American Christianity: the tendency to strain at gnats and swallow camels!!
I attend a Church of Christ and most of the members there do indeed belive that instrumental music is a salvation issue. We hear sermons about this almost monthly. I hear the same scriptures quoted that says it’s wrong, yet i still haven’t yet seen it for myself that says it’s wrong. I think that if it is wrong, the bible would have said, sing only, do not use intruments. When i got married, i had to find a church that would allow a cd of instrumental music to be played because the church i attended then did not (i did actually find a church of christ that permitted it). My preacher has actually been quoted as saying that not only is instrumental music wrong in worship, it is also wrong to listen to it, period. (My dad is also a church of christ preacher, and while he does believe it’s wrong in worship, he doesn’t condemn other’s who use it, and we were allowed to listen to it growing up, we even took piano lessons). I have a cd of hymns with instrumental music and it is some of the most beautiful music i’ve heard.
Mike: I have not had time to follow the whole thread of responses to your blog. I just wanted to comment that I have been on the receiving end of this mindset for many years now. I preach for a small church that has been ostracized by the majority of the other congregations in our ‘out of the Bible belt’ state. We have been condemned and isolated not because we practice instrumental music (we don’t), but simply because we refuse to tow the line and condemn to hell anyone who does. As a result, we are suspect and our members are not allowed to staff or help with the area wide youth camp whose property is owned by the largest Church of Christ in the state, we are not invited to participate in the area wide men’s/women’s retreats or fellowship activities, we cannot participate in the area wide annual lectureship, our youth groups cannot do things together, there are no pulpit swaps or monthly singings that we are invited to hold, and the list goes on and on - many (not all) in these congregations believe our souls are in danger and we need to repent before any fellowship or acceptance can take place. Even though I don’t agree with these other churches, it saddens my heart and hurts to be so condemned by fellow Christians. You may ask, why would I even want to fellowship with these churches… there are many answers I suppose - (1) many members (to include the leadership) of these churches have been friends and neighbors for decades (and in some cases family) and I continue to love them, (2) fully knowing about (and agreeing with) ‘congregational autonomy’, I still believe cooperation in ministry and evangelism is both biblical and a wonderful demonstration of Christian unity and grace when it happens - it can be such an encouragement, especially for small churches to be together with others, (3) I refuse to give up on our heritage (I’m 52), there are just too many good and wonderful things I love about it - and many other reasons as well. As a retired military chaplain who has worked with multiple groups in multiple settings, I long for the day when we can work together in the civilian world like we did in the military. In the mean time we continue to call ourselves a “Church of Christ” but since our own heritage won’t have us we work with other churches in the city for service and other projects (which is a good thing in and of itself), and we make every attempt to focus on the ‘weightier matters’ found in Scripture. God bless.
I think Phil Wilson posed an excellent idea up there in his first comment: “it’s just time to walk away from this one as much as possible and let the other side rail against us until they run out of steam or Jesus comes back.”
I am a young c of c minster…and I’ve got one foot out the door.
“Bicker, ticker, yada, yada, let’s go find some people to love!”
AMEN!!!
i think anyone who comments on this post is an idiot (idiot to be sounded out like Ren from The Ren and Stimpy Show)
wait what does that make me.
I apologize for not jumping in sooner. This is a good and necessary discussion. I have attended the C of C my entire life. My mother was scared to death when a Baptist minister asked me I have been saved when I was 9 years old. She never let me visit anywhere else ever again.
A few years ago, I attended an event in which 65,000 men were singing praises to God in Texas Stadium. I saw nothing that would have offended God on that day. I will never forget the sound of 65,000 men singing “How Great Thou Art” acapella. That is what I believe heaven sounds like. Yet, I also vividly recall a great time of praise when we sang after lunch a number of old hymns and new songs, all of which were accompanied by instruments. I thought again that this was the sound of heaven.
We are so focused on the lack of or use of an instrument that we have totally lost focus on the heart of the person that worships. I have seen the scowl on the faces after we have settled in our traditional seats on Sunday morning when we are asked to stand and sing in our worship services. I have seen the roll of the eyes when all four verses are sung, keeping us in services a little bit longer and making us wait a little bit longer at the restaurant on Sunday evening. No spirit of thanksgiving for being able to stand. No lesson learned by the extra verse that was sung. Just a focus on self and not on God. WHAT A SHAME!
Yes I fellowship with both those who use and those who do not use instruments. I approve of both and I think God does too, if the heart is truly worshiping. I think that Satan uses this issue to get us to do what he wants us to do, which is distract us from worshipping. Satan will do anything to keep us from putting our heart where it needs to be in worshipping God.
Let me go a little further…
I like choirs and wish we would use them as a part of our worship services. I like dramatic and congregational readings of scripture. It does not bother me if a woman prays or if a woman leads a discussion in Bible class. Video is okay if it goes with the lesson.
Now, am I going to have fellowship withdrawn from me because I believe these things?
Ryan … I’m sorry to hear you say that you with a foot out the door. I will be the first to say, “Please don’t go. We need you.” But even more so, I pray that God will raise up ministers who won’t walk out on the cofc when the going gets tough.
I just spent a few hours with some women who have recently converted from Islam to Christianity. They fear for their very lives, as a decision to follow Christ is punishable by death in Shar’ia law. I bet these women are so glad they don’t have to deal with the really tough issues like whether they are going to hell if they play the piano while they praise God for the hellish circumstances that brought them to Christ.
The five things this group speaks of: “speaking, singing, making melody in your heart, giving thanks, submitting to one another..”, the instrumental congregation I worship with promotes all these things, and they are accomplished! Praise God!!
So, how is it we know the first century Christians did not use instruments? Is there a particular biblical passage I’ve overlooked? Or, are we just making assumptions?
In my mind (and heart of hearts), this is a turning over the tables kinda thing. Given the rocky history of the Christian church throughout the ages, how on earth can we be so pharisaical and blindly legalistic?? It absolutely BLOWS MY MIND that people actually believe that God gives one hoot if we sing in four parts, blow a harmonica or strum a guitar in our praise to Him. I loved the comment above that pointed out the NT is silent on the issue of worship via powerpoint slides - can’t believe so many churches are rocking the boat on that issue! I missed that chapter in Acts where it says that instruments, blue jeans and cinnamon-raisin bagels with cream cheese are NOT ALLOWED IN THE SANCTUARY. Absolutely ludicrous.
Our energy, as a people of God, should be directed outwardly, to the lost and poor of our local communities and the world. Not inwardly on stupid, petty junk like this. How shameful for us all.
I wasn’t going to comment again…but
Troy, your comment to Ryan seemed innocent enough until your last comment about walking out on the cofc when the going gets tough.
that kind of passive aggressive comment would make me want to walk even more.
and the going isn’t tough, the going is terminal.