Comments on: Out of the Limelight http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight Sniffing out the work of God in the world... Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:32:22 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Jeremy http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66898 Jeremy Thu, 23 Aug 2007 17:16:52 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66898 QB, No offense taken. I know that the "gradient" mindset is there. I just wanted to offer other reasons for wanting to work with a larger church. QB,

No offense taken. I know that the “gradient” mindset is there. I just wanted to offer other reasons for wanting to work with a larger church.

]]> By: Matthew Morine http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66895 Matthew Morine Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:10:09 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66895 The congregation in NC is a great place. I go there while I am on vacation at Kure Beach. www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org The congregation in NC is a great place. I go there while I am on vacation at Kure Beach.

http://www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org

]]> By: qb http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66887 qb Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:48:53 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66887 Jeremy, I purposely used "gradient" and "incentive" to describe the system in which you operate, rather than trying to generalize the actual motivations or behavior of full-time, paid ministers, which would be both unfair and ignorant. My main point is that we have borrowed so heavily and freely (and perhaps uncritically) from the commercial culture in which we live that we create gradients (like the salary gradients) simply as a matter of course. Whether an individual person, like you, actually moves in that upwardly mobile direction for those reasons is another matter entirely. The more I think about the cultural assumptions deeply embedded in and embodied by our churches, the more such perverse gradients come to light. (Maybe I should just quit thinking about them.) So I hope and trust you took no offense from my post. It was directed at US, not YOU. We are the ones who vote with our feet and our bank accounts, and not surprisingly we end up fashioning kingdoms that look remarkably like the kingdoms of this world. Then we go look for guys we can hire to come in and ratify our preferences in the pulpit and the boardroom. As He said, we reap what we sow. qb Jeremy, I purposely used “gradient” and “incentive” to describe the system in which you operate, rather than trying to generalize the actual motivations or behavior of full-time, paid ministers, which would be both unfair and ignorant. My main point is that we have borrowed so heavily and freely (and perhaps uncritically) from the commercial culture in which we live that we create gradients (like the salary gradients) simply as a matter of course. Whether an individual person, like you, actually moves in that upwardly mobile direction for those reasons is another matter entirely.

The more I think about the cultural assumptions deeply embedded in and embodied by our churches, the more such perverse gradients come to light. (Maybe I should just quit thinking about them.)

So I hope and trust you took no offense from my post. It was directed at US, not YOU. We are the ones who vote with our feet and our bank accounts, and not surprisingly we end up fashioning kingdoms that look remarkably like the kingdoms of this world. Then we go look for guys we can hire to come in and ratify our preferences in the pulpit and the boardroom. As He said, we reap what we sow.

qb

]]> By: Mike http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66886 Mike Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:26:54 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66886 Thanks so much for these heartfelt responses. And blessings on all of you who are ministering faithfully! Thanks so much for these heartfelt responses. And blessings on all of you who are ministering faithfully!

]]> By: Jeremy http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66885 Jeremy Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:06:47 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66885 qb mentioned salary increase and while that may be a motivating factor that is not always the strongest. I preach in a small rural congregation and I have many friends who preach in small congregations and our struggle is more in the area of family. A larger congregation has more children and that would provide a larger peer group for our children. The biggest struggle I have with our congregation is that there are many Sundays that my boys are in Bible class all by themselves. That is very disheartening for Parents. And when we do have young families that visit they usually leave and go to the larger congregation because they have more to offer for their children. qb mentioned salary increase and while that may be a motivating factor that is not always the strongest. I preach in a small rural congregation and I have many friends who preach in small congregations and our struggle is more in the area of family. A larger congregation has more children and that would provide a larger peer group for our children.

The biggest struggle I have with our congregation is that there are many Sundays that my boys are in Bible class all by themselves. That is very disheartening for Parents. And when we do have young families that visit they usually leave and go to the larger congregation because they have more to offer for their children.

]]> By: Kathy http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66884 Kathy Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:42:11 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66884 Again, I'm a day late. grrrr! First, Felicidades - quarter of a century is a remarkable marker! May there be at least a couple more quarters of century for you. My dad preached for over 63 years, all but one were newly planted or very small congregations. IMHO :), he was most successful in every one of them....he preached, he taught, he baptized, he encouraged; he married and buried, and usually held down another full time position since these small congregations were unable to award him full support salary. He humbly worked with quiet dignity, loving his ministry for the LORD as a "preacher of the Gospel" and he certainly blessed my life!!! Again, I’m a day late. grrrr!

First, Felicidades - quarter of a century is a remarkable marker! May there be at least a couple more quarters of century for you.

My dad preached for over 63 years, all but one were newly planted or very small congregations. IMHO :), he was most successful in every one of them….he preached, he taught, he baptized, he encouraged; he married and buried, and usually held down another full time position since these small congregations were unable to award him full support salary. He humbly worked with quiet dignity, loving his ministry for the LORD as a “preacher of the Gospel” and he certainly blessed my life!!!

]]> By: preacherman http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66883 preacherman Thu, 23 Aug 2007 06:29:12 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66883 I preach at a very small country church in the hill country. We get alot of visitors during hunting season. Thanks for remember us today. I preach at a very small country church in the hill country. We get alot of visitors during hunting season. Thanks for remember us today.

]]> By: Rex http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66882 Rex Thu, 23 Aug 2007 02:32:23 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66882 I preach in a very small church in central New York well out of the lime-light, so thank you for remembering us. In return, I am very thankful for all of the "lime-light" people who help people beyond their local congregation lead people in the way of Jesus through such avenues as lecturships, books, journals, etc... BTW... There was once a congregation that I was "trying out" as a pulpit minister for. Half-way through the weekend, it was clear that this particular congregation was not the place for me. However, after I preached on Sunday morning, I actually had someone give me an interesting suggestion that would supposedly "help me" in my ministry: preach more like Randy Harris and Jef Walling. I kindly said "thanks for the advice" but wanted to suggest that they contact Randy Harris and Jeff Walling to see if either preacher would be interested in being their next pulpit guy. I preach in a very small church in central New York well out of the lime-light, so thank you for remembering us. In return, I am very thankful for all of the “lime-light” people who help people beyond their local congregation lead people in the way of Jesus through such avenues as lecturships, books, journals, etc…

BTW… There was once a congregation that I was “trying out” as a pulpit minister for. Half-way through the weekend, it was clear that this particular congregation was not the place for me. However, after I preached on Sunday morning, I actually had someone give me an interesting suggestion that would supposedly “help me” in my ministry: preach more like Randy Harris and Jef Walling. I kindly said “thanks for the advice” but wanted to suggest that they contact Randy Harris and Jeff Walling to see if either preacher would be interested in being their next pulpit guy.

]]> By: Brett Kirkman http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66881 Brett Kirkman Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:56:05 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66881 Mike, I was one of the 140 and I am thankful that you AND Diane spent time in coastal NC. The two of you coming to that small little church and the time that the job allowed for your deep involvement in the lives of the members made a profound impact on the direction of my life. The unique example of christian marriage that you and Diane demonstrated has been instrumental in mine and Kim's life. In fact, tomorrow makes 21 years. Small church ministers make a difference and so do their wives. Thanks Mike and Diane! Mike,

I was one of the 140 and I am thankful that you AND Diane spent time in coastal NC. The two of you coming to that small little church and the time that the job allowed for your deep involvement in the lives of the members made a profound impact on the direction of my life. The unique example of christian marriage that you and Diane demonstrated has been instrumental in mine and Kim’s life. In fact, tomorrow makes 21 years.

Small church ministers make a difference and so do their wives.

Thanks Mike and Diane!

]]> By: Joe James http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66879 Joe James Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:35:58 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66879 Thanks for the encouragement and the example of longevity & endurance! Thanks for the encouragement and the example of longevity & endurance!

]]> By: Steve http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66878 Steve Wed, 22 Aug 2007 14:28:18 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66878 Places I've served: Berea, Mississippi Ridgely, Tennessee Iuka, Mississippi Maud, Alabama These are tiny towns or communities with many good hearted people who love God and serve in their little part of the world. I think the average size church among all denominations is still about 100. Peace. Places I’ve served:

Berea, Mississippi

Ridgely, Tennessee

Iuka, Mississippi

Maud, Alabama

These are tiny towns or communities with many good hearted people who love God and serve in their little part of the world. I think the average size church among all denominations is still about 100.

Peace.

]]> By: laura oldenburg http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66874 laura oldenburg Wed, 22 Aug 2007 06:30:15 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66874 Mike To go right along with this topic is a book I just finished about a missionary in Southern Rhodesia who lived an incredible life as one emptied out of self and given over to the small congregation he served. It is called Dust Diaries by Owen Sheers. Well worth reading, not your usual fare about missionaries, more poetic. But he really took on the life of Jesus to those he served. Mike
To go right along with this topic is a book I just finished about a missionary in Southern Rhodesia who lived an incredible life as one emptied out of self and given over to the small congregation he served. It is called Dust Diaries by Owen Sheers. Well worth reading, not your usual fare about missionaries, more poetic. But he really took on the life of Jesus to those he served.

]]> By: Larry James http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66872 Larry James Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:48:49 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66872 Thanks for this, Mike. Congrats on the 25-years of doing your thing! In growing older, I've come to believe in deep, deep mystery. Somehow it seems to me that "inspiration" is directly related to one's proximity to the Source of all inspiration. So that those closest to Jesus write in a way that qualifies as "inspired." So today, those closest to this same essence write and speak out of a different place and in inspired ways. Such a view alters one's attitude and approach to scripture. Frankly, once this is understood, scripture isn't as "important," at least in relative terms as before. But out of this vision, Jesus rises again and again and becomes more and more and more completely the beginning, the end, the center and the depth of all that really matters. From this place of "unknowing" we can ourselves arise and walk hard after him in this very challenging world--a world that, as with him, remains our only assignment. Thanks for this, Mike. Congrats on the 25-years of doing your thing!

In growing older, I’ve come to believe in deep, deep mystery. Somehow it seems to me that “inspiration” is directly related to one’s proximity to the Source of all inspiration. So that those closest to Jesus write in a way that qualifies as “inspired.”

So today, those closest to this same essence write and speak out of a different place and in inspired ways. Such a view alters one’s attitude and approach to scripture. Frankly, once this is understood, scripture isn’t as “important,” at least in relative terms as before. But out of this vision, Jesus rises again and again and becomes more and more and more completely the beginning, the end, the center and the depth of all that really matters. From this place of “unknowing” we can ourselves arise and walk hard after him in this very challenging world–a world that, as with him, remains our only assignment.

]]> By: Dee http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66871 Dee Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:31:32 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66871 The little country church where Daddy preached when I was in grade school...about 65 people...has produced elders, deacons, teachers, missionaries, faithful marriages, faithful children...all the way from the great grandparents I never knew who were baptized in a brush arbor meeting after the Civil War...to the families of grandparents who grew up with my grandfather...to those who were parents and children as I was growing up...and now are grandparents themselves with faithful families...the good that came from that country church will never be known this side of heaven. Although I worship with a large congregation now, I cherish the memories of Reagor Springs and the godly people who influenced me. The little country church where Daddy preached when I was in grade school…about 65 people…has produced elders, deacons, teachers, missionaries, faithful marriages, faithful children…all the way from the great grandparents I never knew who were baptized in a brush arbor meeting after the Civil War…to the families of grandparents who grew up with my grandfather…to those who were parents and children as I was growing up…and now are grandparents themselves with faithful families…the good that came from that country church will never be known this side of heaven. Although I worship with a large congregation now, I cherish the memories of Reagor Springs and the godly people who influenced me.

]]> By: Trey Morgan http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66870 Trey Morgan Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:32:56 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/08/21/out-of-the-limelight#comment-66870 Mike, Thank you for your thoughts. I think as a brotherhood we make the mistake sometimes in believeing that if you are a large growing church then you please God and He is glorified in your growth. If you are a small or church that isn’t growing … God can’t be happy. This is so untrue. Our goal is simple: “Bring glory to God by SHARING the gospel with as many people as possible.” But we want to believe that glory is only brought to God through embracing and accepting of the gospel. And that’s not so. God is just as glorified in the rejection of the gospel as He is the embracing of it. If that were not true you’d have to write off many of the prophets as failures. You’d have to write off even the Christ himself as a failure because he died with only a handful. Our problem is we want to believe that God is only glorified when churches are full to capacity. And when all the programs are up and running correctly. And that’s not so. Instead God is always glorified through the sharing of the gospel to others. Whether they accept it or not. God’s not just happy with the large growing churches, but also with the small faithful churches who are doing everything they can to reach the lost. And God bless those churches that are growing and may God bless those churches that are doing everything they can to keep their heads above water. I’m very thankful to be a part of a growing church. But when and if it quits growing, I must continue to share the gospel. In that God will be glorified whether it’s accepted or not. Mike,

Thank you for your thoughts. I think as a brotherhood we make the mistake sometimes in believeing that if you are a large growing church then you please God and He is glorified in your growth. If you are a small or church that isn’t growing … God can’t be happy.

This is so untrue.

Our goal is simple: “Bring glory to God by SHARING the gospel with as many people as possible.”

But we want to believe that glory is only brought to God through embracing and accepting of the gospel. And that’s not so. God is just as glorified in the rejection of the gospel as He is the embracing of it. If that were not true you’d have to write off many of the prophets as failures. You’d have to write off even the Christ himself as a failure because he died with only a handful.

Our problem is we want to believe that God is only glorified when churches are full to capacity. And when all the programs are up and running correctly. And that’s not so. Instead God is always glorified through the sharing of the gospel to others. Whether they accept it or not.

God’s not just happy with the large growing churches, but also with the small faithful churches who are doing everything they can to reach the lost. And God bless those churches that are growing and may God bless those churches that are doing everything they can to keep their heads above water.

I’m very thankful to be a part of a growing church. But when and if it quits growing, I must continue to share the gospel. In that God will be glorified whether it’s accepted or not.

]]>