The songs-feminine (lover, bosoms, breasts, feminine language)
The sermon-feminine (30-40 min. lectures)
The style-feminine (singing, listening, sitting)
The programs (MOPS, children’s Bible hour, Ladies Bible Class)

Men’s programs usually consist of a monthly breakfast on a Saturday at 6am…who’s gonna get up for that?

The more I read, the more I see our men not engaged in church and we have turned Jesus into a bearded woman. If we want to see more growth in the church, we need to find better ways for women to lead and give the men something they can connect with. Three books I have recently read back up all of this research:

Wild at Heart by John Eldredge
No More Christian Nice Guy by Paul Coughlin
Why Men Hate Going To Church by David Murrow

Now are we to suppose that these good women who seemed to Paul equal in sharing the work of the gospel and of the grace of God are to suddenly not say a word in church? Oh, I forgot, there were no church buildings. Were they to be silent when men were present in the group? That is hardly the case. Such a position defies logic.

I was roundly criticized for saying that Paul was addressing specific problems in the context where the silence of women is discussed. Who in your congregation is sleeping with his step mother? Pretty speficic I would say.

Corinth was a metropolitan hub of commerce and travel and there were many languages spoken on the city streets. And, when the brothers and sisters met together to worship Christians of many tongues assembled. One of the problems Paul addressed was languages. Another was selfeshness and being rude.

When the text deals with specifics, as in this context to the Corinthians, we learn spiritual principals hopefully. It is always wrong to be rude, selfish, gluttonous, and to drink to the point of being drunk. It is also always inappropiate for several women to dominate the speaking in an assembly.

Sadly, men have taken this text and a few others out of context and now generations of coC homes have wives who are verbally and emotionally abused all in the name of God. And, in some cases, perhaps Winkler, it went further. God always wants men to be loving, caring leaders in their homes and His church. That is never in question. However, women are not 2nd class in God’s eyes and should not be treated as such by Christian men. Barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen is not the limit of usefulness for women.

Can we today forbid a woman to “labor in the gospel”? No. I can find nothing in my Bible that forbids women serving communion, praying, and other things now forbidden. Things are changing in the coC and the day will come when most of the congregations will forsake many of the positions long held that are not supported by the Bible.

Card carrying change agent,
Royce Ogle

The NIV study comments are not inspired. I can point to other commentators who disagree. You might check out Albert Barnes for example. But my comment is based on my understanding of the passage in context.

Annie,

If that is what you think it means, then you are accountable before God to obey that. I don’t think that it includes singing. I am not violating my conscience by condoning women singing, though that does not make me innocent before God.

Our fellowship cannot “pick & choose” what women do in the assembly IF we follow Paul’s statement TO THE LETTER.

The whole context in I Cor. 14 is about NOT being disorderly! Are you kidding? My NIV study bible has this as the heading for that section of Chapter 14: “Orderly Worship”. Every verse following from verse 26 to the end of the chapter where he says “But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way” is addressing this issue. Here is part of what my NIV study Bible says in it’s notes for this section: “Paul is discussing primarily the disruption of worship by women who become involved in noisy discussions surrounding tongues-speaking and prophecy. Instead of publicly clamoring for explanations, the wives were to discuss matters with their husbands at home (v. 35). Paul does not altogether forbid women to speak in church (see 11:5). What he is forbidding is the disorderly speaking indicated in these verses.”

DU

And David responded:
> Really? You have women being disruptive in your worship service?
> You have women being disruptive in your worship service?

Check those scriptures again. You will find that Paul did not cite disruptive women as the reason for his instruction about women being silent. The reasons he did cite are still true.

We hear that rationale (disruptive women) thrown around so often, it seems like it must be there in the passage. But the text does not really say that was happening…much less, that such incidents were the reason for instructing women to be silent.

This comment was written by a lifelong feminist who has been happily married for 13 years, a stay-at-home mother of two for 6.5 of them, and who, by the grace of God, will NOT be silenced!

DU

Thanks for the kind comments.

You wrote:
> I would characterize it differently — by
> simply asking who was Paul writing to?

It seems that Paul was describing the practice at all the first century churces (at least those he was familiar with). In 1 Cor 14:33, he says “As in all the congregations of the saints…” and later:

1Co 14:37-38 “If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored”

Compare that to 1Co 11:16 “If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice–nor do the churches of God.”

If Paul’s reasons no longer apply, then we might be right to say that the conclusions no longer apply. But the reasons are as true today as they were when they were written. These instructions were not unique to first century Corinth. Note also that his justification for the commands is not specific to a single culture or congregation (the order of creation, 1 Cor 11:8-9; the availability of the message to men, 1 Cor 14:36; the order of creation again, 1 Tim 2:13-14). Paul anticipated and knew that these instructions would be controversial in Corinth, but nevertheless they were binding there.