Avoiding Counternarratives
Thanks to Richard B. for this link: Luke Timothy Johnson and Eve Tushnet, a freelance journalist who is a lesbian, take different positions on the Catholic Church’s prohibitions against homosexuality. You may be surprised.
Here’s a statement from Tushnet: “But our human experience, including our erotic experience, cannot be a replacement for the divine revelation preserved by the church. We must be careful not to let it become a counternarrative or a counter-Scripture.”
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I’m going to spend a few days here working through John Stackhouse’s wonderful Finally Feminist: A Pragmatic Christian Understanding of Gender (Acadia Studies in Bible and Theology)
Stackhouse honestly shows that the Bible is both feminist and patriarchal. It has passages that sound complementarian and those that are egalitarian (for those who are familiar with this language). And he seeks to show why that’s the case.
Here are a few words from the end:
“We are happy to affirm for the record that men are not inherently superior to women, that male and female together are created in the imago Dei. But then we act as if males really are superior — superior as topics for Bible study, superior to lead in church and home, even superior to represent all human beings (as in the so-called generic language of ‘mankind’). Where are the women? More basically, where is the female, the feminine, the not-male in the Bible, in our churches and families, and in God? We must resist contemporary extremes such as lesbian marriages and goddess worship. We must resist the loss of rich biblical truth encoded in masculine language for God in the Bible and in traditional theology. But our fear of those losses must not keep us in a masculinist extreme. We must encourage more women to undertake careers in theological scholarship. We must hear women’s voices in our churches. We men must ask feminist questions along with our more standard lines of intellectual interrogation. We must pray for God to forgive us our sexist sins, heal our blindness, motivate our hearts, and open our minds. If the women are absent in biblical and theological studies, we are missing out on half of the Story.”
Hi qb,
And good luck to you as well! Enjoy the the fetishization of God talk.
Troy and Dixie,
My aim is not to use my grief as a power play. It is only meant to tell you why I say what I say and why I say it in such a manner.
Troy, your tone is fine if its honest. If I am being an asshole tell me, I can take it. If I think women’s roles in the CoC are unethical I will use the strongest sometimes most profane words I can find because good and bad have lost their meaning due to our lack of transparency.
You should harbor no embarrassment, honesty can survive life’s ebb and flow.
Leland,
“A despairing man should have the devotion of his friends, even though he forsakes the fear of the Almighty.” (Job 6:14) I’m glad you have good friends.
I’m jumping in here–I’ve read through all the comments here–what great discussion!
I only want to say two things–I think it was Leland who briefly touched on the headcovering thing. I think that juxtaposed with what Ray says about male leadership transcending all time is kind of funny. How do we know which transcends and which doesn’t?
Second, I am of the opinion that we pretty much are a bit backward on the role of women and men in the church. Our elders, for the most part, are chosen because they are good business men and have done well in the world of business. We “relegate” women to the potlucks and teaching the little kids. They are generally the ones who provide most of the service in the church. According to Jesus, that makes us (women) the leaders.
Mark,
I am too glad I have good friends and I realize it is a huge blessing. My friend Brent has been Jesus to me and maybe one day, I will believe again because of his unconditional friendship.
I wish everyone could have a Brent as a friend. He asked me what my mamaw would do at this very moment. I told him she would lay her hands on me and pray for me. Despite my unbelief, that is what he did.
I put him in the same circle of men as my father and grandfather and neither of them were\are very religious. All three of them would run into a burning building to save me, even if it couldn’t be done.
I do not forsake the fear of the Almighty, I just don’t believe in him. I believe in people like Brent and that is enough for now.
Leland,
You and your friend Brent are two people I would like to meet some day. I appreciate you for your brutal honesty. When I quoted the passage from Job, I was assuming that forsaking the fear of the Almighty included no longer believing in him. The fact that you felt it necessary to clarify is a witness to your commitment to absolute accuracy. I respect that. It’s actually challenged me to examine the subtle semantics I use to cover up my true feelings, beliefs, prejudices, etc.
Several years ago, I studied the concept of friendship in the book of Job and 6:14 rose to the surface as the epitome of where the friends missed the boat. Since then, I’ve seen way more of Job’s friends than I’d like in Christians who think they’re offering godly comfort to the hurting. What they’re actually trying to do, in my opinion, is protect their own faith which has been shaken by the same tragic events that have devastated their friend.
It’s a rare friend who will wade into the pain with you without feeling a need to “protect God” from your outrage. It sounds like Brent is one of those friends. And yes, if you ever come back to faith, it will be because of people like him, not because of the well-intentioned folks who admonish you to “tone it down.”
My guess is that you and I are a fair distance apart generationally, philosophically and even geographically. So if I said, “If there’s anything I can do, just let me know,” that would sound pretty hollow. However, I am praying for you and your friend Brent. And I’d be open to any further dialogue that would be helpful to you. It would no doubt be helpful for me too.
Leland –
I remember when Brent sat in my house every week when he was a college student. My son (now 25, but then just a kid) loved him. God has worked so powerfully through him — whether in Africa or in the NW USA. Love the story of his father praying for him. And I love the story of him praying for you, brother.
Mike
I don’t remember who mentioned it but someone made an offhanded comment about Rick Atchley apparently manipulating the Richland Hills Church into adopting an instrumental worship service. I believe they said that he should have gone off and started his own church.
My question is, do you really think that 10 ministers, a number of elders (I don’t know how many) and an entire church really caved into only ONE person’s desire/belief for a service with instruments? I wouldn’t crucify one man for a church’s decision.
-Thank you to those having this discussion. While some, like myself, don’t jump in your processing has been a great help to me.
Kyle,
No one is crucifying Rick. However, Rick was the catalyst. My point is that Rick, 10 ministers, a number of elders, along with a large number of members are a party to creating a division in the Lord’s church, however small it might be. If one person leaves the church and loses his soul, these people may be subject to more static than I’m giving them.
The main justification for doing this was outreach. Where are the masses? What are the results? Why is the budget not being met? They want to be judged only by their intentions and tolerance. They have placed themselves above reproach. They are not accountable to results.
The quality of the info is what keeps me on this site, thanks!