Comments on: The Myth of a Christian Nation http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation Sniffing out the work of God in the world... Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:57:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Dean http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-75472 Dean Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:26:07 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-75472 I am a quarter through this book and delighted by many aspects of it. I am not a 'christian,' have no interest in being a christian, and not interested in very many things I see 'christians' do. This reaction is largely due to the hijacking of religion I perceive the Political Right has accomplished. I am infinitely more interested in what it means to be a follower of Jesus. I see "pro-life" as loving babies and old people, and not those who are killed by bombs we drop on them. All of the innocent lives lost and the only innocent lives 'christians' seem to care about are unborn babies and old people. You develop a Pro-Life platform that includes all life as sacred and YOU CAN SIGN ME UP! Just one aspect of Politicized Religion that has turned me far from any interest in participating in the Religion that has been COMPLETELY Politicized. Any thoughts? Feel free to email me at LDEANW@aol.com I am a quarter through this book and delighted by many aspects of it. I am not a ‘christian,’ have no interest in being a christian, and not interested in very many things I see ‘christians’ do. This reaction is largely due to the hijacking of religion I perceive the Political Right has accomplished.

I am infinitely more interested in what it means to be a follower of Jesus. I see “pro-life” as loving babies and old people, and not those who are killed by bombs we drop on them. All of the innocent lives lost and the only innocent lives ‘christians’ seem to care about are unborn babies and old people. You develop a Pro-Life platform that includes all life as sacred and YOU CAN SIGN ME UP!

Just one aspect of Politicized Religion that has turned me far from any interest in participating in the Religion that has been COMPLETELY Politicized.

Any thoughts? Feel free to email me at LDEANW@aol.com

]]> By: Sam K Zinnah http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65700 Sam K Zinnah Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:34:46 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65700 How has the phrase “we are a christian Nation” affected America’s relations with people in two areas of the world? Please let me know. How has the phrase “we are a christian Nation” affected America’s relations with people in two areas of the world?
Please let me know.

]]> By: Marriage Counseling http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65380 Marriage Counseling Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:37:09 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65380 At the same time, because of the fact that in America WE are the kings, Ceasers and Pharohs. God said that leaders will be held at a higher standard. Therefore, we are the leaders. While I don't believe we should legislate Christianity from a leadership position in government, at the same time, we should not give a platform or power to things that are OUTRIGHT wrong such as abortion, homosexuality and descrimination against Christians (or anyone). Christian Americans are in a position of leadership because of the way our government is set up. Therefore, we are responsible for the decisions made by leadership if we voted for them. So a vote for a Democrat for example is a vote for what they stand for (abortion, higher taxes, the homosexual marriage and agenda, etc.). My point is simply that just because we are not to try to make the government actively promote Christianity, that doesn't mean we lose our own morals and support things that are simply evil. At the same time, because of the fact that in America WE are the kings, Ceasers and Pharohs. God said that leaders will be held at a higher standard. Therefore, we are the leaders. While I don’t believe we should legislate Christianity from a leadership position in government, at the same time, we should not give a platform or power to things that are OUTRIGHT wrong such as abortion, homosexuality and descrimination against Christians (or anyone).

Christian Americans are in a position of leadership because of the way our government is set up. Therefore, we are responsible for the decisions made by leadership if we voted for them. So a vote for a Democrat for example is a vote for what they stand for (abortion, higher taxes, the homosexual marriage and agenda, etc.). My point is simply that just because we are not to try to make the government actively promote Christianity, that doesn’t mean we lose our own morals and support things that are simply evil.

]]> By: D.W. http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65328 D.W. Tue, 12 Jun 2007 04:33:57 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65328 Jim - You're right that there is certainly a growing hostility towards Christianity and a dangerous trend towards marginalizing Christians, but I tend to believe that this hostility is in direct backlash to the ignorant, intolerant and hateful attitudes of people just like Jerry Falwell. Non-Christians have a perception of Christians that is unfortunately skewed by high-profile Christian leaders who have inserted themselves into a political realm. It's no surprise that many people in America grow angry when they witness a growing and vocal group of very political Christians who hold beliefs that claim that 9-11 was the fault of gays, abortionists and feminists and that AIDS is God's punishment for a society that tolerates homosexuality. To many Americans, Christians seem like yet another hate-group. I don't really blame them for being hostile towards us when the most visible example of Christianity that they have is the intolerant voice of Christianity that shows up in the political realm. And to answer your question, I'd have to go with Rosy. At least the child would learn to love other people rather than condemn them. Jim - You’re right that there is certainly a growing hostility towards Christianity and a dangerous trend towards marginalizing Christians, but I tend to believe that this hostility is in direct backlash to the ignorant, intolerant and hateful attitudes of people just like Jerry Falwell. Non-Christians have a perception of Christians that is unfortunately skewed by high-profile Christian leaders who have inserted themselves into a political realm. It’s no surprise that many people in America grow angry when they witness a growing and vocal group of very political Christians who hold beliefs that claim that 9-11 was the fault of gays, abortionists and feminists and that AIDS is God’s punishment for a society that tolerates homosexuality. To many Americans, Christians seem like yet another hate-group. I don’t really blame them for being hostile towards us when the most visible example of Christianity that they have is the intolerant voice of Christianity that shows up in the political realm. And to answer your question, I’d have to go with Rosy. At least the child would learn to love other people rather than condemn them.

]]> By: edgar http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65316 edgar Mon, 11 Jun 2007 04:49:27 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65316 Jim Shelton said: "If faced with the choice, who would you have preferred raise your kids: Jerry Falwell or Rosie O’Donnell?" AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jim Shelton said: “If faced with the choice, who would you have preferred raise your kids: Jerry Falwell or Rosie O’Donnell?”

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: Jim Shelton http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65311 Jim Shelton Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:05:58 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65311 Well Nancy, I suppose we are afraid of different people (if afraid is the correct word). I never considered Jerry Falwell a big threat. I tend more to believe the aggressive secularists are more cause for concern than those "Christians" to whom you refer. If faced with the choice, who would you have preferred raise your kids: Jerry Falwell or Rosie O'Donnell? Call me crazy, but I would have picked Jerry. Regarding your use of the beatitude here; far be it from me to disagree with Jesus. I'm not sure why you believe using the words of Jesus is not fair, but you can take that up with Him. Yes, those who are persecuted are blessed according to Jesus. Are you saying that because this is true, we should actively bring persecution about in the form of government persecution or that we should simply be apathetic about it? I do not believe that is any more true than the idea that we should actively seek and bring about situations to cause mourning because Jesus said those who mourn will be comforted. Regarding persecution, I do not know that it will come to the extent I fear, but take a look at the culture around you. I suppose part of whether that comes about will depend upon how Christians react. There is a slowly increasing hostility towards Christianity. You can see it in the sitcoms, movies, public debate, and academia. No, in the words of Jesus, we should not fear. I'm not entirely sure that means we should also be apathetic and seem to get a little miffed at those who are not apathetic. I suppose that is the crux of the debate between those who argue we should be salt and light in the culture and those who believe we should focus on matters of the kingdom and be totally separate from the world. Well Nancy, I suppose we are afraid of different people (if afraid is the correct word). I never considered Jerry Falwell a big threat. I tend more to believe the aggressive secularists are more cause for concern than those “Christians” to whom you refer. If faced with the choice, who would you have preferred raise your kids: Jerry Falwell or Rosie O’Donnell? Call me crazy, but I would have picked Jerry.

Regarding your use of the beatitude here; far be it from me to disagree with Jesus. I’m not sure why you believe using the words of Jesus is not fair, but you can take that up with Him.

Yes, those who are persecuted are blessed according to Jesus. Are you saying that because this is true, we should actively bring persecution about in the form of government persecution or that we should simply be apathetic about it? I do not believe that is any more true than the idea that we should actively seek and bring about situations to cause mourning because Jesus said those who mourn will be comforted.

Regarding persecution, I do not know that it will come to the extent I fear, but take a look at the culture around you. I suppose part of whether that comes about will depend upon how Christians react. There is a slowly increasing hostility towards Christianity. You can see it in the sitcoms, movies, public debate, and academia. No, in the words of Jesus, we should not fear. I’m not entirely sure that means we should also be apathetic and seem to get a little miffed at those who are not apathetic. I suppose that is the crux of the debate between those who argue we should be salt and light in the culture and those who believe we should focus on matters of the kingdom and be totally separate from the world.

]]> By: Nancy http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65310 Nancy Sun, 10 Jun 2007 05:18:48 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65310 "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven...rejoice and be exceeding glad: for great is your rewrd in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matthew 5:10 and 12. While I do not agree with your viewpoint on the clear and present danger to the rights of Christians, Jim Shelton, (I feel that I have much more to fear from some "Christians" themselves) I ask you: if what you fear will happen, DOES happen, wouldn't that result in blessings being poured down on you from our Lord and Savior? I mean, look at the words of Jesus, above. (Sorry to throw the words of Jesus at you, I guess that isn't fair.) “Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven…rejoice and be exceeding glad: for great is your rewrd in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.” Matthew 5:10 and 12.

While I do not agree with your viewpoint on the clear and present danger to the rights of Christians, Jim Shelton, (I feel that I have much more to fear from some “Christians” themselves) I ask you: if what you fear will happen, DOES happen, wouldn’t that result in blessings being poured down on you from our Lord and Savior? I mean, look at the words of Jesus, above. (Sorry to throw the words of Jesus at you, I guess that isn’t fair.)

]]> By: Jim Shelton http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65230 Jim Shelton Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:49:36 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65230 Edgar, it is hard to imagine that blogs could ever been shut down for having a Christian bent. But then again, it was hard to imagine twenty years ago that states would be seriously considering homosexual marriage. The ones who forecasted such twenty years ago were called crackpots. Turns out they were a bit more perceptive at reading the signs than the ones who called them names. So, Edgar, you might have a hard time seeing how such could ever come about, but I would direct you to take a look at what the left likes to call "hate speech" and the legislation that is often proposed by the left to deal with it. Its not as far-fetched as you think. Edgar, it is hard to imagine that blogs could ever been shut down for having a Christian bent. But then again, it was hard to imagine twenty years ago that states would be seriously considering homosexual marriage. The ones who forecasted such twenty years ago were called crackpots. Turns out they were a bit more perceptive at reading the signs than the ones who called them names. So, Edgar, you might have a hard time seeing how such could ever come about, but I would direct you to take a look at what the left likes to call “hate speech” and the legislation that is often proposed by the left to deal with it.

Its not as far-fetched as you think.

]]> By: Snapshot http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65227 Snapshot Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:48:21 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65227 Judges, professors and groups such as the ACLU. You are pitifully mistaken to think this is far from happening. Visit the Center for Academic Freedom website and just see what's happening to our Christian students across this nation. People are already working hard to shut Christians up now. It's not something that's in our future, it's happening now. But (imagine this) it doesn't get media coverage. Shock. Honestly though, if you don't believe that its happening, nothing anyone can say or show you will change your mind. What's that quote "Don't bother me with facts, my mind is already made up." You might not change your mind until it happens to you. Judges, professors and groups such as the ACLU.
You are pitifully mistaken to think this is far from happening.
Visit the Center for Academic Freedom website and just see what’s happening to our Christian students across this nation. People are already working hard to shut Christians up now. It’s not something that’s in our future, it’s happening now. But (imagine this) it doesn’t get media coverage. Shock.
Honestly though, if you don’t believe that its happening, nothing anyone can say or show you will change your mind. What’s that quote “Don’t bother me with facts, my mind is already made up.”
You might not change your mind until it happens to you.

]]> By: edgar http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65226 edgar Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:12:19 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65226 Snapshot said: "Cause if you don’t watch out, the ACLU and others will find a reason to shut down blogs such as this and the ones many of us write because we are saying too much and it offends other religions." Do you actually believe this? And if so, who are you listening to? We are about as far from having religious blogs shut down as we are from embalming the body of George W. Bush and enshrining it in the Smithsonian for people to fetishize. Snapshot said: “Cause if you don’t watch out, the ACLU and others will find a reason to shut down blogs such as this and the ones many of us write because we are saying too much and it offends other religions.”

Do you actually believe this? And if so, who are you listening to?

We are about as far from having religious blogs shut down as we are from embalming the body of George W. Bush and enshrining it in the Smithsonian for people to fetishize.

]]> By: Snapshot http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65220 Snapshot Tue, 05 Jun 2007 14:33:23 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65220 Fajita said "No, I do not want to be threatened or tortured or killed for my faith, but I'm am not going to count on the constitution, incredible document that it is, to guarantee me a right that can't be taken away with our without it." Well, finally something we agree on. But I am willing to stand up, unashamed and fight for that right for myself and my children. The ACLU and others can't shut "me" up (although others might be hushed) but they can make it awfully uncomfortable for everyone. I choose to fight the fight long before they make martyrs of us. Which is why I am involved in politics. There are fights worth fighting. Politics will affect me whether I affect politics or not. Fajita said “No, I do not want to be threatened or tortured or killed for my faith, but I’m am not going to count on the constitution, incredible document that it is, to guarantee me a right that can’t be taken away with our without it.”

Well, finally something we agree on. But I am willing to stand up, unashamed and fight for that right for myself and my children. The ACLU and others can’t shut “me” up (although others might be hushed) but they can make it awfully uncomfortable for everyone. I choose to fight the fight long before they make martyrs of us. Which is why I am involved in politics. There are fights worth fighting. Politics will affect me whether I affect politics or not.

]]> By: Fajita http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65215 Fajita Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:54:09 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65215 Snaposhot said: "It’s a matter of constitutional rights as an American to live in religious freedom." It is a matter of being adopted as daughters and sons that we are free to speak of whom we belong. Making such speech illegal will not shut us up. Penalizing such speech will only make it all the more creidible. Killing us for our speech will make martyrs of us. From a kingdom of God perspective, what's the down side? No, I do not want to be threatened or tortured or killed for my faith, but I am not going to count on the constitution, incredible document that it is, to guarantee me a right that can't betaken away with or without it. If the ACLU makes it illeagal to be a Christian I'll just break the rules. Snaposhot said: “It’s a matter of constitutional rights as an American to live in religious freedom.”

It is a matter of being adopted as daughters and sons that we are free to speak of whom we belong. Making such speech illegal will not shut us up. Penalizing such speech will only make it all the more creidible. Killing us for our speech will make martyrs of us. From a kingdom of God perspective, what’s the down side?

No, I do not want to be threatened or tortured or killed for my faith, but I am not going to count on the constitution, incredible document that it is, to guarantee me a right that can’t betaken away with or without it.

If the ACLU makes it illeagal to be a Christian I’ll just break the rules.

]]> By: Snapshot http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65213 Snapshot Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:39:48 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65213 Scriptures tell us over and over again to not be ashamed. In my opinion, bowing down at the alter of the politically correct ACLU and others is allowing yourself to be ashamed of the gospel of Christ. Letting a entity such as these tell you when and where in a free country you can lawfully speak the truth of Christ is a very large problem. No one's faith can be stifled by the ACLU, but it's that direction that they seek to go in. If you shut people up long enough, eventually they'll be silent. Don't be fooled, that is their (ACLU and others) goal. I'm also of the opinion that this is not a matter of trying to overpower the political world. It's a matter of constitutional rights as an American to live in religious freedom. Christians deserve the same constitutional rights as other religious faiths. The problem is that Christians have been too afraid and too ashamed to stand up for their faith. No, my faith is not hinged on the ACLU, but my lawful ability to express my faith it is. Being against those types of organizations doesn't make me any less faithful or mean I'm trying to be powerful. But that accusatory way of thinking is a tactic some like to play along with for the benefit of the left. Questioning someone's faith because they want to stand up for their religious freedom is quite effective, it's worked for years. But, for the future of my children's right to express themselves freely, I'd like them to be given the religious freedom that our constitution grants we have. Remember we are discussing a separation of church and state. If folks want it separate, then by all means, let's be separate. Cause if you don't watch out, the ACLU and others will find a reason to shut down blogs such as this and the ones many of us write because we are saying too much and it offends other religions. You are kidding yourself if you really don't believe that this is the direction that they are headed. Sure you can still profess your faith without a blog, but as a free American citizen, you should not have to. Think ahead, think outside the box. Think "Not Ashamed". Scriptures tell us over and over again to not be ashamed. In my opinion, bowing down at the alter of the politically correct ACLU and others is allowing yourself to be ashamed of the gospel of Christ. Letting a entity such as these tell you when and where in a free country you can lawfully speak the truth of Christ is a very large problem. No one’s faith can be stifled by the ACLU, but it’s that direction that they seek to go in. If you shut people up long enough, eventually they’ll be silent. Don’t be fooled, that is their (ACLU and others) goal.
I’m also of the opinion that this is not a matter of trying to overpower the political world. It’s a matter of constitutional rights as an American to live in religious freedom. Christians deserve the same constitutional rights as other religious faiths. The problem is that Christians have been too afraid and too ashamed to stand up for their faith.
No, my faith is not hinged on the ACLU, but my lawful ability to express my faith it is. Being against those types of organizations doesn’t make me any less faithful or mean I’m trying to be powerful. But that accusatory way of thinking is a tactic some like to play along with for the benefit of the left. Questioning someone’s faith because they want to stand up for their religious freedom is quite effective, it’s worked for years. But, for the future of my children’s right to express themselves freely, I’d like them to be given the religious freedom that our constitution grants we have.
Remember we are discussing a separation of church and state. If folks want it separate, then by all means, let’s be separate.
Cause if you don’t watch out, the ACLU and others will find a reason to shut down blogs such as this and the ones many of us write because we are saying too much and it offends other religions.
You are kidding yourself if you really don’t believe that this is the direction that they are headed.
Sure you can still profess your faith without a blog, but as a free American citizen, you should not have to.
Think ahead, think outside the box. Think “Not Ashamed”.

]]> By: Matthew Morine http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65211 Matthew Morine Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:11:19 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65211 Mike, Christians must be careful of trying to overpower the political world. In doing so, it becomes a us vs them. This is not the message that God's people should be picturing to the world www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org Mike,

Christians must be careful of trying to overpower the political world. In doing so, it becomes a us vs them. This is not the message that God’s people should be picturing to the world
http://www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org

]]> By: Fajita http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65209 Fajita Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:59:54 +0000 http://preachermike.com/2007/05/31/the-myth-of-a-christian-nation#comment-65209 Let the ACLU do whatever it is they feel compelled to do. They cannot take away my faith or anyone else's. Some of the things that group and other groups do is biased and there are many axes being ground down to a nub. But who cares? When you seek to kill faith is it not only raised up stronger? Is there no ressurrection power left in us at all? My faith is not hinged on things that the ACLU can take away. If faith is hinged to things which can be legislated away or taken out of a person's hands, then it is no faith at all. We must shed all things that wed Christ to the powers of this world. We must at least strive for that. "When everything that can be shaken has been shaken, then all that is left is all that we ever really had." -Rich Mullins paraphrasing something out of Hebrerws. This is an important debate to be had and I am grateful that I have the freedom to enjoy it. Let the ACLU do whatever it is they feel compelled to do. They cannot take away my faith or anyone else’s. Some of the things that group and other groups do is biased and there are many axes being ground down to a nub. But who cares?

When you seek to kill faith is it not only raised up stronger? Is there no ressurrection power left in us at all?

My faith is not hinged on things that the ACLU can take away. If faith is hinged to things which can be legislated away or taken out of a person’s hands, then it is no faith at all. We must shed all things that wed Christ to the powers of this world. We must at least strive for that.

“When everything that can be shaken has been shaken, then all that is left is all that we ever really had.” -Rich Mullins paraphrasing something out of Hebrerws.

This is an important debate to be had and I am grateful that I have the freedom to enjoy it.

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