The Myth of a Christian Nation
Thanks so much for the spirited “audience participation” yesterday. I was coaching last night and haven’t yet had a chance to get all the way through the comments. But something good has to happen as we listen to each other.
I’d like to recommend as a follow-up to the discussion Greg Boyd’s The Myth of a Christian Nation: How the Quest for Political Power Is Destroying the Church
Here are a few words where he explains his position:
“My thesis . . . is this: I believe a significant segment of American evangelicalism is guilty of nationalistic and political idolatry. To a frightful degree, I think, evangelicals fuse the kingdom of God with a preferred version of the kingdom of the world (whether it’s our national interests, a particular form of government, a particular political program, or so on). Rather than focusing our understanding of God’s kingdom on the person of Jesus — who, incidentally, never allowed himself to get pulled into the political disputes of his day — I believe many of us American evangelicals have allowed our understanding of the kingdom of God to be polluted with political ideals, agendas, and issues.
“For some evangelicals, the kingdom of God is largely about, if not centered on, ‘taking America back for God,’ voting for the Christian candidate, outlawing abortion, outlawing gay marriage, winning the culture war, defending political freedom at home and abroad, keeping the phrase ‘under God’ in the Pledge of Allegiance, fighting for prayer in the public schools and at public events, and fighting to display the Ten Commandments in government buildings.
“I will argue that this perspective is misguided, that fusing together the kingdom of God with this or any other version of the kingdom of the world is idolatrous and that this fusion is having serious negative consequences for Christ’s church and for the advancement of God’s kingdom.
“I do not argue that those political positions are either wrong or right. Nor do I argue that Christians shouldn’t be involved in politics. While people whose faith has been politicized may well interpret me along such lines, I assure you that this is not what I’m saying. The issue is far more fundamental than how we should vote or participate in government. Rather, I hope to challenge the assumption that finding the right political path has anything to do with advancing the kingdom of God.”
I’d still like to also recommend Balmer’s book.
When we deal with the question of whether Christians should use politics to further the kingdom we must remember that the kingdom involves unity and inclusion of all people. When we make abortion illegal or use government to help the poor we neglect the fact the fact that kingdom requires at its core relationship and reconcilation. Making abortion illegal makes those who do it wrong and us right, we polarize people and make justice more about punishment than creating a heart of repentance. If we use government to help the poor we lose the gift of getting to know them.
Snapshot
I can certainly agree with that!
David: I think God is the one who made “those who do it wrong and us right” on the abortion issue (check out the Ten Commandments, where it says something like “do not murder.”) I am disturbed by a general lack of willingness to stand up for what is right. If our government allows the death of innocent babies, we lose the gift of getting to know them too.
David: Would you mind enlightening us as to the scripture that states that the Kingdom involves “unity and inclusion of all people” and its application in this discussion?
In other words, if the church is weak and ineffectual and divided, then the state will (more than happily) step in and take its place in providing for the people.
You see, that’s my point … Christ tells us that we are to strive for weakness by the world’s standards, the place of dishonor, to be like children, and only then will we be bestowed with strength, honor and respect. A theme I hear popping up among the politically involved on both sides of the aisle seems to be that the church has a responsibility to transform our culture/government (which is Niebuhr’s old “Christ and Culture” argument). The problem, though, is that to do this, the church must capture people’s attention in the same ways everyone else does — by out-yelling their detractors and rivals, organizing around issues rather than people, and even compromising core beliefs.
Basically, in order to be heard, the church must seek the place of honor and of power, while trying to be as least-childlike as possible.
The other assumption that is made among politically involved Christians is that the church is and should be in a central, publically influential position in our culture. (Sort of like how the church steeple was the central object in New England towns in the early years of our Republic.) If someone can find me a verse supporting that idea, I’d be interested to hear it. My Bible points to an exilic, marginalized community of Jesus-followers who gladly take the path of suffering over a position of power. I liked what someone above said about there necessarily being a “tension” between the church and government, but I’m not sure that takes it far enough.
There are two powers. There is imposing power and there is liberating power.
Imposing power is intoxicating and addicting. It is paranoid and hyper-protective of itself wherein the worst thing that could happen is its loss. Imposing power seeks to control the world. It is spread by force.
Liberating power spreads freedom and is disgusted by anything less. It has no fear of being lost because it can only be surrendered, but never taken. Liberating power seeks to control itself. It is spread by conviction.
Jesus was constantly tempted to seize imposing power, but he consistently chose liberating power. His power was evident in his ability not to be coerced, manipulated, or co-opted into imposing power.
Liberating power may just be best demonstrated in the refusal of imposing power.
The only thing worst than a pious “conservative” is a pious “liberal”.
David, I can think of hardly any laws we have that don’t make some wrong and some right. You are right; the law is polarizing. So is truth. So is Jesus.
Maybe we should just get rid of all law and we could evangelize the entire world in a generation. Do you suppose if we repealed the laws against incest it would help us to reach the incestuous? What about repealing all laws against pollution to help us reach those who are warming the planet to levels which are unacceptable to that vast majority of all scientists? Good ole mother earth needs laws though, doesn’t she? But an unborn child — ah let’s not say anything divisive about that. It might hurt evangelism. The same with all those other “sins” some seem to believe were never moral issues until the time of Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority. When you have to try and rewrite the moral law to justify a political position, maybe it is time to take a good hard look at the political position.
David said: “Making abortion illegal makes those who do it wrong and us right, we polarize people and make justice more about punishment than creating a heart of repentance. If we use government to help the poor we lose the gift of getting to know them.”
The only thing worst than a pious “conservative†is a pious “liberalâ€.
I think they both stink equally. Equal stinkage.
Aren’t opinions grand?
Be blessed ya’ll!
Steve for once you may be right
Steve for once you may be right
Awww, thanks, Clint. (I think) =)
Hi folks. I’m the author of Myth fo a Christian Nation. A friend told me about Mike’s blog and the discussion, so I thought I’d check it out. Just want to say I appreciate the level of discussion here. I especially enjoy the fact that so many see the danger of fusing the kingdom of the cross with the kingdom of the sword on the part of the religious right, but also on the religious left.
The Kingdom of God is as different from all versions of the kingdom of the world as Jesus is from Caesar.
Blessings
Greg
Great discussion.
I agree, Ken!
It’s interesting the history of Churches of Christ have had with this topic. We know that Stone, Lipscomb, and many others all had things to say about the Kingdom of God vs. the kingdoms of this world. It’s not a new discussion for us, just one that get supressed at times by certain leaders.
If you flip to the back of Boyd’s book (cool to see him on here!) you’ll notice the two sources probably cited more than any other are Richard Hughes’ Myth’s America Lives By (where you can find more myths than just the “Christian Nation”) and Lee Camp’s Mere Discipleship. Both are from our heritage.
I think it’s important to keep this discussion going and to keep it as one that our heritage/brotherhood is not afraid to tackle. Thanks to Mike for bringing it before so many readers!
I agree we should keep the discussion going…..
However, not everyone is being allowed to participate. I’ve been made aware that at least one commenter is not being allowed to post. Perhaps it is just a software glitch. Hopefully someone can check on it.
Allen, I read Boyd’s book last year (and it’s very good, by the way), and I noticed the frequent use of Hughes’ and Camp’s work as well. Haven’t read Hughes’ book, but Camp’s is great.
I want to agree wholeheartedly with the author but…..I can’t help but think that God might ask us why in the world we didn’t do everything we could to stop abortion. In my mind being pro-choice is idolatry because it places personal freedom above God’s will. And contrary to “a sin is a sin”, it seems to me that when people commit abortion, it’s all God can do to withhold his anger at such things. For us then to say, “well that’s a political issue and we are above politics” or to say that “being a Christian doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be pro-life”, well I’m just not seeing it. The fact that God loves us enough to sacrifice his own son, isn’t it easy to connect that killing a baby is abhorrent to him?
As for alot of the other stuff, I agree we take it too far. I don’t think there is anything wrong with being a part of the political process but we should first vow to be Christians, then fathers/mothers/children honoring our families, then Americans, then Republicans/Democrats. I’m pretty sure being Texan fits in there too somewhere although the lines may get a little blurry.
I checked into it…I don’t see any comments being held in moderation.
Perhaps some have been deleted, but if they were, I’m sure it was for a good reason, and done by the owner of this blog, which is perfectly within his rights…
Turns out it was because I used a word in the post above that refers to an inappropriate relationship between close relatives. That’s my guess as to why it was blocked.
Jim Shelton: Well said. You communicated my thoughts better than I did regarding David’s comment re abortion and polarization.
To usher in the New Covenant, the sins that caused the original ‘fall’ of man had to be purged.
Scripture defines them as:
(a) exchanging the truth of God for a lie (Romans 1:25)
(b) worshipping and serving the creature rather than the Creator (Romans 1:25)
(c) disobedience to the commands of the Creator – “as through one man’s disobedience, the many became sinners” (Romans 5:19.
Jesus of Nazareth redeemed us in the eyes of God and negated these ‘original’ sins by:
(a) insisting on Truth and exposing and rejecting lies
(b) worshipping and serving the Creator rather than the creature
(c) learning obedience through his sufferings (Hebrews 5:8) and through this obedience the many were made righteous. (Romans 5:19)
Jesus of Nazareth lived and died for truth, as is evident by his statement to Pilate. It is encumbent on all who would be his followers to put into practice these redeemer values, as he did; to confront manipulation, deception, distortion and lies whenever and wherever, as he did.
Because these values are timeless and universal, they cover every sphere of human activity.
Through each invididual emulating his example and putting into practice the ‘redeemer’ virtues, the Kingdom of God on earth can be brought into being.
Politics and Culture – Tell me more about who’s not being allowed to comment. It’s my blog, and I’d like to know. Because I’m not stopping them. WordPress does have a moderator to try to stop people from using obscene language or from filling blog comments with Viagra ads. But to say that “not everyone is being allowed to participate” is absolutely incorrect. I know one comment was caught by WordPress because it used the word “incest” — caught because of the number of pornographic sites that try to entice people through that word.
Greg Boyd – Thanks so much for your note. Love the book and hope many will get it and interact.
For a wonderful essay Greg has written, go here.
the other thing that triggers a comment to be moderated is linking to outside websites too many times within one post (because the spam comments do this). i’ve gotten caught a few times doing this.
Mike,
For a new online magazine that addresses political topics like this, as well as science and faith, atheism, and Islamic-Christian relations, check out
http://www.christianfaithandreason.com
No need to get defensive, Mike. I realize my comment sounded a bit accusatory, and that was not my intention.
But for a while someone was not able to participate. It doesn’t matter if it was due to a spam filter, or the blog owner not checking on moderated comments — his comment did not appear for a while and was somewhat lost in the shuffle because so many came after it.
I was just pointing it out so that it would be corrected.
Sheesh.
(Rex, May 31st, 2007 at 9:39 am) Rex, I am a “Christian who lives in America.â€
This mindset of the U.S. being God’s chosen nation is a very scary thing to me. How arrogant can we be??
Abortion . . . I am against abortion. But I haven’t been in that place yet either. I want to hope I’d stay true to my beliefs, but like other things in my life, I don’t know what I do in certain situations. The thing that bothers me most about folks being so adamant against abortion is that they’re so proud of the war and the war dead. How can we bo so against killing in one instance and not the other? And don’t say it’s because the military has made the decision to be there and the unborn have no choice. When I was a teenager, hundreds of years ago (1970s), preachers preached against Christians being in the military, based on the “thou shall not kill” commandment. Yet today, so many in our churches seem to glorify the military and killing. I just don’t understand. And I’m being as sincere as I know how to be – it really troubles me.
Yes, it sounded a bit accusatory. I’ll let others read it in the context of the flow of comments.
As Christians we need to share the message of Christ to everyone. We should strive to make this nation a Christian natian. Sharing our testimony. Sharing the good news. Thanking the troops who have served kept our freedom of religous possible. I remember seeing a photo of a baptism in the sands in Iraq. Praise God that Christianity is spreading even in places where we never thought possible. God is to glorified. When we take God out of everything in the country we will fall and will be Judged like countries be for us. We must not think that America us above God’s judgements but be thankful that his blessings are up on us and do what we can while we have the time He has given us to share the message of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.
bpb – one is murder. the other is sacrifice. hmm…not too hard for me to see the difference. by the way, the fact that a preacher happened to preach something doesn’t make it true. Have you read the Old Testament lately? Murder is personal. War is not. Murder is the result of selfishness or anger. War is generally the result of a desire for freedom for one’s country, or humanity in general. I see a huge difference here. There are countries (I’ve lived in one) where this conversation would cause all of us to disappear one day at the hands of the government, never to surface again. Is that what you want? Maybe you should thank God for those who are brave and selfless enough to fight for your freedom to speak your mind.
Politics and Culture: Who on earth says “sheesh” anymore? I thought that was out after 7th grade.
surpaz,
Sheesh has been replaced by the self righteous “WOW” when someone gets offended or doesn’t want to say “OH Yeah!.”
But according to JH on GKB’s blog all commenters on this blog have double digit IQs. So maybe sheesh is the best one can do with such limited resources.
Speaking as one with a double digit IQ, I may be offended at I don’t know what if I weren’t so damn stupid. Hell according to most commenters no one gets the real point Mike is trying to make any way.
I think everyone is missing the point of Boyd’s excerpt as well, by the way. He didn’t mention anarcy, or apoliticism. I hear some of you saying that we should not impose our Christian values on others, or that only the less faithful will be in the military or politics (or maybe some think that only the less faithful will resort to a line of work other than teaching at a Christian school, working at a Christian company, or being a minister). I believe (and this is just the lowly opinion of someone with a lowly IQ I am sure) that we SHOULD absolutely carry our faith, and the gift we have been given to understand the TRUTH of the incredible SACRIFICE that Jesus made for our FREEDOM to every place we happen to venture, whether it be CAPITAL HILL or THE ACU HILL. I also believe we are to fight for truth and against the mistreatment of all those who are less capable of defending themselves. Sometimes that may come in the form of political wrangling. Is there something wrong with that? I agree with Boyd, that the Kingdom of God should not be fused with politics or Americanism. Two totally different allegiances. I have not read his book (I will now) but from this excerpt, I do not hear him condemning (as some of you are) those who choose to serve in their country’s military or government. Maybe I’m missing the boat here, and I’m just not smart enough to follow this line of discussion, but it seems pretty simple to me. Jesus told us to share the truth of the GOOD NEWS to people AS WE GO into the world. He did not say to stop going. He said AS YOU GO. God may call some Christians to be involved in politics. I do not think a man must abandon truth to be a statesman. OR to be a lobbyist, or the like. If the calling is carried out in a way that is marked with the Grace of Jesus Christ (which is highly radical and polarizing, I might add) positive light will be shed on God’s kingdom and people’s lives will be changed. By the way, since some of you seem to think Christians shouldn’t be involved in politics, let me ask this. If there is a Christian candidate and a non-Christian candidate, who would you vote for?
I’d like to add that our forefathers who founded this great nation (I didn’t say God’s nation…I just happen to like the USA) founded it with God’s guidance. They actually prayed before every session, with many of the prayers being prompted by a man who normally did not pray, but realized the need for God’s hand in accomplishing such a mighty task as forming a government. I’m not saying the men and women of our country are perfect, but who is? It might not hurt this country if our leaders once again sought that guidance. God seems to like that. He likes it when any old person will seek him, including Congressmen, Presidents, and warriors. In the Bible, there are even places where God placed people in positions of power (Joseph) to carry out his plan. I think we are arrogant if we have decided that God is only pleased with certain people who are very moderate and get along with everyone without having a polarizing effect. This is what the world says…I was always taught to try not to listen to what the world says, and focus more on what God says. I am neither radical right or left, but what on earth is wrong with having radical beliefs? I think the problem lies in NOT LOVING the other side. It has nothing to do with DISAGREEING with the other side.
America is not a Christian nation. America should strive to be a nation of compassion and love (though nations fail badly at these things), but not a Christian nation.
Christians who are Americans living lives of love, joy, peace, patience etc make whatever place they occupy more Chritian. “Against these things there is no law.” They do it without the need for political co-opting one way or another.
My deep concern is that many American who are also Christians don’t really believe in love. They don’t believe the fruit of the spirit holds any power. And yet, Jesus held to no other ethic. They say “love,” but their means are political. They give in to the power structure of this world in order to make a divine end come about. We are fools everytime we mock love for politics.
How different is thinking of the USA as God’s chosen country from what the confused apostles thought about the nation of Israel?
Maybe we are more like them in their confusion than we sometimes think. Just a thought.
Kathy S
I am about to start the last chapter of “Family Man” the biography of James Dobson. I believe few people I know are more convinced that his actions are living out the ministry God has given him.
There is a great wrong being done to any catagory of christians to compare their enthusiasm to idolatry. You could just as easily say that those with a house and a car are idolatrous in their materialism. Or someone who is a sports fan is more concerned with entertainment than ministry. Any thing can take a higher place in our heart than God and we should warn each other about that. But let’s be very careful it is not our pride making us want to feel superior to others by accusing them.
It doesn’t take much reading of the old testament to see exactly what idolatry is, worshiping any other God but Jehovah. The majority of the people on this earth literally do just that. We do not need to be reading idolatry into every action or motive of our christian brothers and sisters. Satan has many wiles to snare us into destroying the unity in the bond of peace.
Thank God for the separation of church and state!!!
Think about when state and religion get tied together…. A few examples:
1) Henry VIII, as monarch, is the head of the church of England after breaking ties with Rome. He gets as many divorces as he wants, as well as getting the confiscated monasteries and other church properties.
2) Puritans in Massachusetts establish an intensely, intentionally Christian state. They require church attendance; they levy fines for swearing; they don’t allow people to wear costly clothing (see 1 Timothy 3–we don’t follow that part any more). They also, by the way, whip Quakers (heretics) through the streets and hang witches by the dozen.
3) The Taliban in Afghanistan. Everyone must observe Muslim law. No alcohol is sold. No work may be done on the sabbath. In order to prevent men from lusting, all women must wear burqas. Etc. etc. etc. Yuck.
***
Religion is to be practiced by individuals and by faith communities (churches, synagogues, mosques, etc.). It is not to be prohibited by nor meddled with by the state.
First amendment to the US constitution:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . . ”
Yep. I like it.
the only religion whose free exercise is prohibited in this nation, in this day, is ours.
Christinaity is not prohibited in America. It is under great scrutinty because there are certain sectors (huge sectors) of Christianity that have abused power and given some people cause for fear. Hundreds of millions of faith-based government dollars are going to mostly Christian organizations. I hardly call that a prohibition on Christianity.
All religion is suspect when it needs political power to assert its agenda. Religion that needs politics is problematic. When government money is used to feed hungry people and a Christian organization happens to be feeding hugry people already nd is awarded that money to do better what they are already doing, that has the chance of being a good thing.
But let me stress, no one has ever said that Americans cannot be Christian. Why the paranoia? No one can take away your faith. If they can, then that is another problem.
While some have abused their power and caused some to fear, you are sadly mistaken that this is the cause for the all out war on expression of Christian faith. One only has to watch the news on a regular basis or visit the ACLU website to see which religion is being constantly attacked and which are given open passes.
I don’t believe those of the Christian faith should be paranoid but to say they shouldn’t be concerned is as you say “another problem”.
The political left likes to use the “separation of church and state” only in specific instances that just happen to most often be linked to the Christian faith. This is not opinion….just the facts.
Let the ACLU do whatever it is they feel compelled to do. They cannot take away my faith or anyone else’s. Some of the things that group and other groups do is biased and there are many axes being ground down to a nub. But who cares?
When you seek to kill faith is it not only raised up stronger? Is there no ressurrection power left in us at all?
My faith is not hinged on things that the ACLU can take away. If faith is hinged to things which can be legislated away or taken out of a person’s hands, then it is no faith at all. We must shed all things that wed Christ to the powers of this world. We must at least strive for that.
“When everything that can be shaken has been shaken, then all that is left is all that we ever really had.” -Rich Mullins paraphrasing something out of Hebrerws.
This is an important debate to be had and I am grateful that I have the freedom to enjoy it.
Mike,
Christians must be careful of trying to overpower the political world. In doing so, it becomes a us vs them. This is not the message that God’s people should be picturing to the world
http://www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org
Scriptures tell us over and over again to not be ashamed. In my opinion, bowing down at the alter of the politically correct ACLU and others is allowing yourself to be ashamed of the gospel of Christ. Letting a entity such as these tell you when and where in a free country you can lawfully speak the truth of Christ is a very large problem. No one’s faith can be stifled by the ACLU, but it’s that direction that they seek to go in. If you shut people up long enough, eventually they’ll be silent. Don’t be fooled, that is their (ACLU and others) goal.
I’m also of the opinion that this is not a matter of trying to overpower the political world. It’s a matter of constitutional rights as an American to live in religious freedom. Christians deserve the same constitutional rights as other religious faiths. The problem is that Christians have been too afraid and too ashamed to stand up for their faith.
No, my faith is not hinged on the ACLU, but my lawful ability to express my faith it is. Being against those types of organizations doesn’t make me any less faithful or mean I’m trying to be powerful. But that accusatory way of thinking is a tactic some like to play along with for the benefit of the left. Questioning someone’s faith because they want to stand up for their religious freedom is quite effective, it’s worked for years. But, for the future of my children’s right to express themselves freely, I’d like them to be given the religious freedom that our constitution grants we have.
Remember we are discussing a separation of church and state. If folks want it separate, then by all means, let’s be separate.
Cause if you don’t watch out, the ACLU and others will find a reason to shut down blogs such as this and the ones many of us write because we are saying too much and it offends other religions.
You are kidding yourself if you really don’t believe that this is the direction that they are headed.
Sure you can still profess your faith without a blog, but as a free American citizen, you should not have to.
Think ahead, think outside the box. Think “Not Ashamed”.
Snaposhot said: “It’s a matter of constitutional rights as an American to live in religious freedom.”
It is a matter of being adopted as daughters and sons that we are free to speak of whom we belong. Making such speech illegal will not shut us up. Penalizing such speech will only make it all the more creidible. Killing us for our speech will make martyrs of us. From a kingdom of God perspective, what’s the down side?
No, I do not want to be threatened or tortured or killed for my faith, but I am not going to count on the constitution, incredible document that it is, to guarantee me a right that can’t betaken away with or without it.
If the ACLU makes it illeagal to be a Christian I’ll just break the rules.
Fajita said “No, I do not want to be threatened or tortured or killed for my faith, but I’m am not going to count on the constitution, incredible document that it is, to guarantee me a right that can’t be taken away with our without it.”
Well, finally something we agree on. But I am willing to stand up, unashamed and fight for that right for myself and my children. The ACLU and others can’t shut “me” up (although others might be hushed) but they can make it awfully uncomfortable for everyone. I choose to fight the fight long before they make martyrs of us. Which is why I am involved in politics. There are fights worth fighting. Politics will affect me whether I affect politics or not.
Snapshot said: “Cause if you don’t watch out, the ACLU and others will find a reason to shut down blogs such as this and the ones many of us write because we are saying too much and it offends other religions.”
Do you actually believe this? And if so, who are you listening to?
We are about as far from having religious blogs shut down as we are from embalming the body of George W. Bush and enshrining it in the Smithsonian for people to fetishize.
Judges, professors and groups such as the ACLU.
You are pitifully mistaken to think this is far from happening.
Visit the Center for Academic Freedom website and just see what’s happening to our Christian students across this nation. People are already working hard to shut Christians up now. It’s not something that’s in our future, it’s happening now. But (imagine this) it doesn’t get media coverage. Shock.
Honestly though, if you don’t believe that its happening, nothing anyone can say or show you will change your mind. What’s that quote “Don’t bother me with facts, my mind is already made up.”
You might not change your mind until it happens to you.
Edgar, it is hard to imagine that blogs could ever been shut down for having a Christian bent. But then again, it was hard to imagine twenty years ago that states would be seriously considering homosexual marriage. The ones who forecasted such twenty years ago were called crackpots. Turns out they were a bit more perceptive at reading the signs than the ones who called them names. So, Edgar, you might have a hard time seeing how such could ever come about, but I would direct you to take a look at what the left likes to call “hate speech” and the legislation that is often proposed by the left to deal with it.
Its not as far-fetched as you think.
“Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven…rejoice and be exceeding glad: for great is your rewrd in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.” Matthew 5:10 and 12.
While I do not agree with your viewpoint on the clear and present danger to the rights of Christians, Jim Shelton, (I feel that I have much more to fear from some “Christians” themselves) I ask you: if what you fear will happen, DOES happen, wouldn’t that result in blessings being poured down on you from our Lord and Savior? I mean, look at the words of Jesus, above. (Sorry to throw the words of Jesus at you, I guess that isn’t fair.)