Preacher Search
The most recent Christian Chronicle has an ad by a church that is looking for a preacher. “Evanglistic Pulpit Preacher Needed.”
Part of the ad says: “We are looking for a man who wants to be right not radical, a man of wisdom and understanding who truly believes the song ‘Just As I Am’ and permits the gospel to change people’s lives according to “THE faith once delivered to the Saints.” Change agents, misguided, or unlearned men who desire to forget the old hermeneutic pattern of, who is speaking, to whom is he speaking, and when is he speaking, or Command, Example, and Necessary Inference need not apply. We are seeking a man to continue these God inspired biblical traditions taught by men of faith like those listed above [G. C. Brewer, C. E. McGaughey, Rex Turner, Sr., John Henry Clay].”
Just this reflection: My guess is that if they find someone who really believes the song “Just As I Am,” he won’t get the job.
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Just a few more recent pictures:
I just wanted to clarify that I meant no disrespect to the ministers mentioned in the ad. Bro. McGaughey stayed in our home when I was a child while conducting a gospel meeting at our congregation; Bro. Turner spoke at my grandmother’s funeral; Bro. Brewer was a favorite teacher of my father’s and I have a tape of his sermon “The Twenty-Third Psalm” that moves me to tears everytime I listen to it. These were fine gospel preachers and role models for young preachers in that time frame, but these men would be the first to speak up and say “preach the gospel” to any minister who would be seeking employment.
Bobby, I had looked at the Chronicle on-line but didn’t find the ad, so I will check back for it in a few days. Thanks for the information.
Did Jesus use examples of everyday life from time to time, instead of just scriptures (which means what we call the Old Testament). I’m pretty sure he did. Man, even Jesus himself couldn’t get that gig.
Because of ads like that, is why it took almost three years of searching to find a congregation with whom I could serve in and along side of.
Now on to the more important matters…
That is one beautiful grandchild. God bless her life!
Mike, Why, why? You give us so many good blogs to inspire and encourage. Why even bring up this ad. A discussion of it will eventually bring out the worst in all of us.
I agree with Troy.
It must be very nice to be so confident in YOUR rightness that you feel so comfortable sneering at the belief system of your supposed brothers.
Or do you not consider the more conservative among us “brothers?”
I think there is a difference between disagreement and sneering. How do we (Christians) ever make progress or challenge one another without openly confronting certain ideas or methods with dissenting viewpoints? As a forum of dialogue, the internet does not privatize conflict but makes it public and open to conversation partners. I would rather someone disagree with me over the net and allow me to participate in the conversation than to be critiqued behind close doors. We must be able to make a distinction between oppossing an idea(s) and attacking the people that hold them.
“The beginning of thought is in disagreement , not only with others but also with ourselves.†Eric Hoffer
Disagreement usually doesn’t take the form of sarcasm and calling other people’s views “all that nonsense.”
That ad is really sad. Reese is precious and you and Diane both look like you are in heaven.
I LOVE that “change agent” is still being used. LOL!!!!!
I understand that some are upset when fingers are pointed but there comes a point when we have to address that restrictions and exclusivity are not what Jesus wanted from us. These restrictions and exclusions have caused pain and pushed some away from Jesus. Jesus wants us to be salt and light…people who bring hope and light help others to sit in Jesus’ lap. I know so many who are struggling because of their contact with Churches of Christ and I don’t think that is what Jesus intended when he asked us to his bride. I don’t believe that Mike intended hurt with his mention of this employment ad…only to bring it out into the light.
Just as you are asking for all of us to see the people who posted this ad in the best possible light…please give the same to my friend Mike.
“Change agents, misguided, or unlearned men who desire to forgetâ€
this is what they call people who do not agree with them. It is not their belief that is troubling it is their arrogance.
Isn’t there a line…”has broken every barrier down…now to be Thine and Thine alone”?
Looks like a few hurdles/barriers to jump over and through to me.
The ad to which Mike referred is on the lower left side of page 9 of the May 2007 Christian Chromicle.
What I love is when you see articles about these “Change agents” and what happened at the Tulsa Workshop, for example. Ever wonder how they know? Do they send out spies to these events because many times they are very detailed in their knowledge.
I am somewhat bemused (note: not amused) that a people who claim to “speak where the Scriptures speak and be silent where the Scriptures are silent” or “call Bible things by Bible names” so often resort to bandying about terms like “change agents” or “necessary inferences.”
Clint-
“Change agents” are NOT what we call people who don’t agree with us. It’s what we call people who have a hidden agenda to “enlighten” the rest of us (brothers in Christ) on spiritual issues. It’s what we call people who come into a church with the purpose of aligning with like minded members in order to split the church over worship style. It’s what we call people like Randy Mayeaux and Rick Atchley. The difference is that Randy had sense enough not to destroy a strong church in order to promote change.
Found it, Coping.
Thanks.
Whatever we think of the ad, there are appoximately 25,000 souls in that area who need Jesus. We need to pray for God to send the man He needs to tell them about Jesus and pray for the congregation to welcome that man and support him in his ministry.
“Change agents” I just love that 90s term.
It ranks right up there with “Partheans, Meads, Dwellers of Mesopotamia.”
There is a lot of “we” and “they” on both sides of the aisle.
When I read that ad, I see a group of people who fear losing something they hold precious. They fear for themselves and for their children. Right or wrong, they believe they must follow the old paths (as they understand them) in order to obey God. I for one do not doubt they love God and are striving to obey him.
Looking a little deeper, I think I see another group of people who are driving that fear. Those people likewise love God and are striving to obey him according to their understanding. They see the first group as obstructionists, as a threat to the progress they long to experience.
I wish both sides could be healed of their insecurities toward the opposite group. Why can’t we accept one another? It is not before each other that we stand or fall, but before God. And he is able to make us stand… that is, he is able to make both groups stand.
Victor, don’t feel like the Lone Ranger! Lots of us have been bemused for YEARS. I believe God has been bemused for centuries.
And He still loves us!
DU
From reading the comments and the post, it seems that it has become rather easy to criticize or critique. From a “distance.” It must be good to be so enlightened.
Thanks for clarifying that it was in the May issue. They really improved the ad in the June issue.
Earlier commenter wondered who G.C. Brewer et al were…When I hear about G.C. Brewer I always think of the original Harding library (before renovations in 1990) which had a little-used, tiny interior room called the “G.C. Brewer Room.” In it were his desk, chair, and his personal library. You could lock the door to this room, and it was a great place to make out!
Alan, I wouldn’t say us and them. I would say us…all the way…us. We are all part of the Church of Christ. It is our denomination. It is my history. It is my family. I love and honor that background…my history and my family. I acknowledge the gifts that my denomination has given me and others…a rich history of singing, passion for the Word, connections all over the world within the Churches of Christ, confidence in the waters of baptism, congregations with individual personalities, summer camps that allow youth from a region to know each other deeply and a Christian College network that educates and grounds young adults. I am sure there are more but those are off the top of my head. I have incredibly positive memories from my church growing up…Sunday school, picnics, close friends to slumber party with, adults who loved me intensely, and a wild youth group that was also deeply searching.
But I found as an adult that there were some teachings and theology that didn’t seem to mesh with the Jesus that I was encountering. I am absolutely not condemning but yes, I am challenging some of those beliefs. I am glad that conversation happens…and yes, sometimes it has to be heated discussion. There are strong passions from all branches of our family. I did say earlier that the Church of Christ is my family but my family has grown…grown to include the universal body of Christ. I still am a very committed member of a Church of Christ. I think that we all have a responsibility to look at our families honestly…we need to see the flaws and possibly retrieve a few skeletons from our collective closets.
I don’t think that is asking too much.
I will say that one of the men mentioned is actually attached to my husband’s family tree and I would love to have this kind of conversation with him.
I am shocked. An ad, or a person who is not progressive get mocked. Is it fair for the traditional/conservative side (of which I am not on) to mock us? That is the biggest issue in the church today. If your church chooses to be change agents, do it. If you believe that the “old hermeneutic (sp) is the way to go, you should not be teased because of it. Shame on both sides.
You are trying to reconcile with the Christian Church but cannot within our own brotherhood. When will we get it?
Chris,
I’m not sure there’s mockery going on, but from my personal experience, I cannot remember any “progressive” congregations that have disfellowshipped anyone because they held the more conservative views. Unfortunately, and sad to say, that has not been my experience with the ‘conservative’ congregations and individuals. Some of whom have told me I was straight on my way to the fires of Hades because I had “abandoned” the conservative, traditional, or as was put to me “right way” and “right fellowship.”
There is room for growth on both sides in extending grace to the other, but there is a great deal of trepidation, even fear on my part to seek out those that hold the conservative POV. I have been deeply hurt by some and their judgment of me and the congregations with which I have chosen to worship and and serve.
I agree with the person that wrote of the paradox of our outreach to the Christian Church but our difficulty doing the same within our own fellowship. But then, we usually find we can reconcile more easily with an acquaintance than we can, at times, with a close family member when there are disagreements. The same is true in church fellowships, imho.
I’ve forgiven the judgments slung at me, but have yet come to full rebuilding of trust in those that have repeatedly hurt me so deeply. Prayers gratefully accepted that trust be restored.
Kathy,
My issue is that judgement is coming from both sides of our brotherhood. No more should a church say “conservative, fire and brimstone (sp) preachers need not apply.” Chances are that add would not be placed, but I think we all know there are churches with that attitude. Again, I am probably more progressive in my faith, worship ect… than I am traditional. I hate, HATE,HATE the fact that we seem to sling arrows at each other. Mike was mocking the church that placed the add, as well intentioned as he may have been. My opinion is that the side that has decided to stay traditional simply gets chided for their decision.
Let me ask you this: Would you be more likely to NOT attend a church that did not have praise team (which my church has) or go a church that you fundamentally disagreed with their doctrine? I am afraid we (me included) would chose worship we were comfortable with over soundness of teaching/principals.
I guess something snapped in me today. I am sorry if I offended.
So Troy,
you agree with the rest of my statement!
I don’t imagine I will gain any friends – and will probably lose a few more – but I’ve already expressed the way I feel about this a few times: Do We Really Need Them?, and A Comprehensive Hermeneutic, and its Part 2.
And I’ll confess that my initial reaction to the ad upon seeing it was not admirable.
But I’m trying to do better.
Clint-
At the risk of being labeled arrogant, I disagree.
I would like to know the background of this church. Did a prior experience promt this ad?
In an earlier blog you wrote:
“Having my kids spend a couple hours with Landon Saunders. Move over Garrison Keillor. The greatest voice and the greatest storyteller in America is LS.”
Can you help bring me up to date on what Landon is doing know and how he could be reached? I, too have fond memories of hearing him speak. I still remember his words like no other preacher. He was way ahead of his time. I would like to interview him about his life. Please let me know how I can reach him or his agent/staff if there is such a thing.
Let me ask you this: Would you be more likely to NOT attend a church that did not have praise team (which my church has) or go a church that you fundamentally disagreed with their doctrine?
If I “fundamentally disagree(d)” with any church’s doctrine, that I feel is not in accordance with God’s revealed will, I could not attend no matter the “form of worship leader(s), instrumental or non-intrumental.
“…no matter the “form of worship leader(s),…
What? Really, I was not referring to the svelteness or lack of same of the worship leaders. LOL I’m trying to read here AND watch the Cubs vs My Padres baseball game, hence the weirdness of sentence structure. How about this?
No matter the form of worship or whether there are leader or leaders, instrumental or non-instrumental, God’s word and worship of Him is primary, Jesus and Him crucified, raised and ascended to return for us is of primary concern. The rest of congregational time together is for lauding Him and building up the saints, imho
Now back to baseball.
Mike,
Why are you looking at the job listing on the Christian Chronicle? Should Highland be worried? Just kidding…
You look at the way progressive churches place ads: Seeking minister with “people skills”, “purpose driven mindset”, or “seeker friendly”, “emerging church focused”.
So, should we be suprized to see such an ad?
I say since the churches of Christ are non-denominational, let them do what they want. I say if Richland Hills want to do something a certain way that is up to their leadership. If Highland does something different that is up to highlands leadership. If a conservative traditional church wants to things a certain way, let them do what they want to do. Let us all remember thought that Love is the essential. Love is a must! We must love our brothers whether they and I hate labels (I hope in the future we could get rid of the labels) but if they a conservative, progressive, middle of the road, we all should love. If we have not love then it all means nothing. The world will know us by our love.
I for one see nothing of riducule or derision in Mike’s statement. But I do think that we should be careful about how we speak about the “other side”. I have searched the scriptures and their meaning and as a result have changed many of the positions I was taught growing up. My parents continued in those positions. But my mother was one of the most godly people I have ever known and my father suffered from Lou Garreg’s desease and never complained, only looking forward to going home. Though their system of religion I now see to have a very devisive element in it I know they never desired to but please the Lord. I know a loving God has accepted them into paradise. Let’s be careful of our judgement of another’s servant and watchful for our own pride.
Perhaps in changing the ad the church has rethought at least the way they want to appear to others and maybe more, Kent
I just keep thinking of a quote from an earlier blog with a similar tone. I cannot quote word for word, but the general idea went like this… A conservative only loves those to his right, and a liberal only loves those to his left. We really need to try not to fall into either category.
It is much easier to accept those more conservative than yourself, than to accept those more liberal than yourself. The “change agents” need to be more sensitive to the issues of conscience that face their more conservative brothers and sisters. That’s a big part of the message of Romans 14 and 1 Cor 8. We have a lot of room to grow in that area.
Can someone tell us when (and where) the unscriptural term “change agent” began to be used and why it has found such favor with a people who profess to only speak where the Bible speaks? And are they saying they have no need of change? Isn’t authentic repentance true change?
You’re killin’ me, Mike. Hilarious comment.
And still much nicer than when Paul was when said that he wished the legalists would “go the whole way and emasculate themselves”! I’m sure some of his blog commenters would have been VERY unhappy with him.
Victor, I believe the term “change agent” was first popularized by progressive preachers in the church in the 80′s to describe their agenda to liberalize the brotherhood. It is a term used in sociology or educational philososphy. Alarmed at the opinions expressed by these voices, writers/preachers have drawn attention to the self-described “change agents” and the label now seems to be a litmus test of compatibility, if not fellowship.
BTW, I’m extremely conservative, personally know a blogger or two in this forum and want to encourage everyone to not despise those you disagree with (“speaking the truth in love” – Ephesians 4:15). Sarcasm is usually very unbecoming to a Christian and is very entertaining to an unbeliever who stumbles upon this forum.
This Sunday’s sermon (on Memorial Day Weekend) will be taken from 2 Tim. 2:8-14, where Paul tells Timothy to remember the gospel, the death and resurrection of Christ, and not to be involved with disputes that are unprofitable.
Now, let’s get with it and start taking the gospel to the world. We’ve got work to do–starting with our own neighbor.
(Judges 10:14), God told them: “Go and cry to the gods which you have chosen; let them rescue you in the time of your torment.”
I guess God is not very Christ like much less His Prophets.
Most ads have code words that identify if a church is to the left, right, or middle. Many preachers have made the mistake of thinking a church was progressive, when they were really in the middle or even the right. In the CoC, before I took a job, I would interview the elders. A preacher should not take a CoC job, until they know for sure, with as much certainty as possible, the elders are inline with the preachers beliefs.
I’m behind on my blog reading…and late with my two cents…but it looks less like they want “Just as I am” and more like they want “Just as we think we’ve always been”
I just found this blog today. When I read a blog that A. makes light of someone who is concerned with having a minister that is devoted to the scripture as the men listed and B. the open comment that the blogger wouldn’t be hired at that congregation, makes me wonder what kind of minister the blogger would be. G. C. Brewer, for example, studied at the feet David Lipscomb. Here was a man who began his ministry during very trying times for the brotherhood. Instead of ridicule and mockery, the blogger ought to address his statement that he wouldn’t be hired at a congregation that desired someone like G.C. Brewer. For that is the most telling piece that I have seen written here. Since there is no kinship between the blogger and men like G. C. Brewer, when is the blogger going to admit there is no kinship between himself and the church of Christ. For the history of the church in America springs forth more from men like G. C. Brewer, David Lipscomb, J. W. McGarvey, Roy Lanier Sr., than it does from men like Rubel Shelley, Max Lucado and Rick Atchley. I will say this for Max Lucado, he was honest enough to remove church of Christ from the sign. I wonder when Highland will.
Brian, I thought it wasn’t a denomination….Why do you care who uses the name?
Donna,
It is patently dishonest to want to retain ties with a group of people with whom you hold no kinship. If you are going to be truly “liberated” from the shackles of the restoration movement, you should fully commit to removing all outward ties to that movement. Now I don’t think I mentioned denominationalism at all in my post. But it is evidently on your mind. You are right in your assumption that I don’t consider denominationalism a thing to be desired. Nor do I think that the goal of the restoration movement founders was to create another denomination. Their aim was to recreate New Testament Christianity. They sought to break free from the bonds of their Protestant roots. They dedicated themselves to the goal of speaking where the Bible speaks, and being silent where the Bible is silent. They determined to call Bible things by Bible names. Those goals in and of themselves distinguished them from other groups. And it was a worthy aim and goal. Having said all of that, I will say that I owe no allegiance to any of those men. My allegiance is to God. As a result, those who claim to be brethren and yet feel no kinship with those exceptional men should for integrity’s sake, divorce themselves from all vestiges of the movement those men gave their lives in service. I just cannot fathom someone retaining ties with people with whom I have nothing in common. I couldn’t sleep with myself at night if I continued to live a lie. Can you?
That baby is beautiful. I’m sure you are so proud!
- Kayci Ross
Strange that what we consider sad in this day in age is true and sound doctrine. What we want is change, innovation, and that which tickles our ears and entertains…because of this, people who wish to adhere to Biblical teaching are seen as out dated and old fashioned.