Comments on: Small Issues and a Guiding Gospel

By: qb

qb — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 02:04:44 +0000

Beautiful, Patsy. I would only add that one hour out of 168 means that the percentage is closer to 0.5%. Bravo. I tire of the suggestion that “technology-driven” and “culturally relevant” are the same thing. Love never ceases to be culturally relevant, Vista or no Vista.

I have seen (and enjoyed) first-hand the wonderful fruit of loving hospitality here in this little blogosphere, and it is so much more fulfilling and suggestive of the Christ than any amount of fancy GIFs, modern MP3s or cutting-edge PPTs. Technology, progress and innovation should be our slaves, not our masters. Our master is the one of whom it is said, “God is love.” (And we don’t pretend that “love is god.”) Taste and see that the Lord is good!

By: Dana

Dana — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:58:27 +0000

I appreciate what Patsy wrote. I grew up in a church that was old fashioned in the ways they worshiped. But those were the people that taught me the wonderful stories about Jesus. Prayed for me. And were there when I needed help. We must remember the church is the bride of Christ and we must not tear her down from either side.

I go to a different c of c now and the opposite thing is happening. While people are finding their freedom to express their outward feelings of worship, the worship leaders are saying that you’re not really worshiping unless you are clapping or lifting your hands. I’m so glad God looks at our hearts.

By: Cari Bonneau

Cari Bonneau — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:55:40 +0000

Food For Thought: (pun intended)

In regards to “O taste and see…” that I believe you included in your sermon on Sunday…

Our small group made an observation about a year or so ago. (I’m sure you have already realized this….allow me to catch up.)

Of the 5 senses, it’s interesting that “taste” was chosen for this verse.

* You can sneak up on someone and make them HEAR something they didn’t intend to hear.
* You can flash something in front of someone and make them SEE something they didn’t want to see.
* The simple act of breathing can make someone SMELL something they didn’t want to smell.
* You can even make someone FEEL something they didn’t want to feel by simply putting it on them.
* TASTING, however, implies CHOICE. If you’ve ever tried to feed a 1-year-old spinach from a baby food jar, you know what I mean. You simply cannot MAKE someone taste. You can make them WANT to taste, but you cannot make them taste.

Doesn’t God choose His words wisely?

By: Nancy

Nancy — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:06:10 +0000

This response is to Dee: I concur with what others are saying; “go for it” and worship in a way that you feel led to do. Speak out. There are definitely others around you who will be strengthened by it, as there will be some who will be offended by it. You might as well put it to the test. But please, please, consider a different church or even denomination if you are that depressed about going to church. In my opinion, one of the ways the CofC meets the definition of a cult is the amount of psychological pain people are willing to endure to stay “in the fold” and the extreme disapproval from others when some sheep decide to leave for greener pastures. Perhaps that particular church really is not the place for you. Signed, Been there, done that

By: Leland

Leland — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:26:57 +0000

Well said Patsy. Thanks

By: Patsy

Patsy — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 15:52:28 +0000

I want to reflect on Dee’s comment. I grew up in those churches in western Kentucky. The services didn’t bother me at all then. After I married and was exposed to more, I became discontented with that style of worship. However, in the past couple of years, I have come to know that what happens in that hour or so on Sunday morning really has so little to do with Christianity. I go to a church that has “grown” beyond those small southern churches in its worship style. We have a praise team, and women taking public part in the worship, and freedom to break forth in clapping whenever we chose. However, when my daughter had surgery and was confined to home, no one from my church called or visited or sent a card. As I walked through the depths of depression, no one stood by me. Contrast that with my parents small country church where they have two songs, a prayer, a song and a sermon. When my mom was ill, food was brought in, visits were made. Everyone in the church knew she was ill and expressed their concern. I think we get too hung up on what happens in the building, and discount the 99% of the rest of what those Christians do with their lives. By the way, I was visiting one of those churches where you do not applaud, and when an announcement was made about something, I broke out in applause (force of habit) and after a second of hesitiation, so did the rest of that church. So maybe you could clap your hands or raise your hands, and by doing so, you might inspire others to do so also. I remember a dear friend of ours who was about 83 years old at the time asking me, “Do you think it would be okay if I raised my hands while I sing?” I told him - “You go right ahead, I don’t think God will care. In fact, I think he will like it.” And so he did, and now many of us do.

By: Scott

Scott — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 14:29:48 +0000

Help me Mike! I’m stuck in moderation!!!

By: PDR

PDR — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:39:15 +0000

Dee,
Hang in there! I agree with ReJoyce, there are probably other like-minded Brothers and Sisters in your midst. You will figure out who they are and be able to encourage each other. I too moved from a more “freeing” congregation to one that was more “restrictive”. Many Sundays I had to practically sit on my hands to keep from clapping or lifting them in praise to God. Within the last two months our congregation moved to a new building and it seems to have freed some who were holding back so they wouldn’t offend the weaker brothers. It is an exciting time for us! I hope you get to experience the joy we are reaping from our patient wait!

By: J A Pierpont

J A Pierpont — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 12:49:50 +0000

Mike - You seemed to be saying that Christians should not be seen in a pagan temple eating meat that had previous sacrificed to an idol?

A lot more went on in pagan temples than just the worship of idols. Birthday parties, retirement parties, wedding celebrations. Would Christians be invited to those?

By: qb

qb — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:32:31 +0000

Interesting question. Seems to me that we demonstrate our “gospeledness” whenever:

a) We are genuinely interested in a righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees; and

b) We find a Christlike way of speaking or behaving in response to a circumstance that is not addressed specifically in scripture;

c) We live beyond commands and necessary inferences, no longer needing prescriptive boundaries because we are living fully in the spirit of Christ; and/or

d) Our lives exemplify the kind of love that is the fulfillment of the law in every meaningful respect.

In other words, I can only demonstrate that following Christ is “good news” to the extent that I am able to make good choices autonomously, having been formed in the character of Christ, instinctively able to perceive the way of Christ and to live in it without having those choices imposed on me from without.

By: Hub

Hub — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:02:27 +0000

I guess one of the questions we have to ask ourselves is, “Where is the idol’s temple today?” To understand what it is that pulls us away from the Christ Kingdom into the World Kingdom, I will hazard a couple of guesses.
1. Walmart and Malls. How does a Christian manage their interaction with the Temples of Stuff? What is the point at which we take things in, and the point where we are taken in?

2. Sports. Having seen firsthand how many young lives are sacrificed on this altar, one must ask the question of how involved in sports a Christian should be? Mike Yaconelli said once, “Sports isn’t of the devil, it IS the devil.” I don’t go as far as that, but I do wonder if our culture worships the athlete to the point where our worship for the Lord is diminished. What is the line for sports?

By: Dennis

Dennis — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 04:11:12 +0000

I have been dealing with a typical small town church in the south where some of the same types of issues that have been mentioned above (you know, everything that encompasses “liberalism”) and the fight against it just kills the Spirit. We have definitely been majoring in the minors.
I have spoken up for the past few years in defense of freedom. At first it seemed to to make a lot of people nervous. Then, it seemed to set many people free. However, the die hards and their legalistic ways then just made things more and more frustrating to the freed people because once the freedom was discovered, the lack of it became more apparent and discomforting.
Because I was the one who spoke out about this freedom publicly, I have had to pay a somewhat of a price. The legalists are down on me pretty bad. I think they are actually scared of me. They think I’m a really dangerous person.
There are quite a few who agree with me completely, but because they don’t let their views be known publicly, the legalists accept them totally. If they only knew.
I sometimes wonder if it has been worth the hassle. It sure causes a lot of consternation and upset feelings. It just doesn’t seem right that most of my frustration for the past few years should come from dealing with my brethren.
I’m not sure it is even possible for me, but sometimes I think it would have been better to just keep my mouth shut. I just know that I’m tired of fighting small thinking and closed minds.

By: Kathy

Kathy — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:38:34 +0000

“…but it does help with survival.”

How very sad that anyone should be made to feel that survival is the best that awaits them in their local congregation. My heart aches for those congregations and for those that are struggling to survive in them.

By: Amy

Amy — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:21:45 +0000

Along with what Jeff is saying I think we should include materialism on the list of slippery slopes that we all struggle with. As followers of Jesus we are called to be giving of our money and focused on pursuing kingdom treasures rather than striving to get bigger and bigger houses, etc.

Our choosing to live modestly might encourage others to think twice before making major financial purchases that would strain budgets. Going further than just living modestly, we can grow in the grace of giving freely with a loose grip on our stuff.

People notice these things, and being human we tend to compare with each other. When we as followers of Christ are no different from the Joneses in our accumulation of wealth (hoarding) we lose a chance to be a witness.

By: reJoyce

reJoyce — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:16:56 +0000

Ah, Dee. I feel your pain, too. And, sadly those narrow-minded churches are to be found in the north, too. We found, as we moved from place to place, that eventually you will find that there are some like-minded people hidden in the group. They then become your support system, and you do the same for them. It is not the same as being someplace is not like that, but it does help with survival.