Here is a note that my friend Darryl Tippens sent out:
I am enthusiastic about a new movie that will open on Friday. “Amazing Grace” is the story of William Wilberforce, the British Member of Parliament who succeeded in leading England to abolish slavery in the British Empire, long before the American Civil War. Wilberforce was a man of deep faith, a wonderful example of how the Gospel changes lives and improves society. In a time when we promote diversity, it’s important to remember it was Christian abolitionists like Wilberforce who brought slavery to an end. A particularly interesting detail of the film concerns the link between the familiar: a hymn “Amazing Grace,” written by John Newton, and the life and work of Wilberforce.
I hope you will share the news of this film with your friends, family, and students, and I hope you will see the film yourself. Incidentally, the producer of the film is Ken Wales, a good friend to many of us at Pepperdine. If you believe in positive, uplifting movies, this is one you will want to support.
At the following web address you can watch a trailer for the film, find theatre locations, and even download study materials appropriate for classes.
http://www.amazinggracemovie.com/
- - - -
Here again is the address for Pepperdine’s “Ascending Voice” conference in June. Darryl has made it clear that this is not an attack on the part of the Christian tradition that uses instrumental music; rather, it is a celebration of the a cappella heritage in many, many churches. (They’re discovering more all the time!)
I’ll be there if it doesn’t conflict with coaching baseball. First things first.
Excellent! A movie about Wilberforce. Thanks for the heads up and link, Mike. I’ll definately check it out. Ben, Rochester, NY
I’ve seen the trailer and it looks like an excellent movie. I hope everyone supports this. The “new” Amazing Grace is great.
I’m saving my 2 Southwest passes to attend the “Ascending Voice” with my daughter. Pepperdine ambiance and lots of a cappella music should be a mountain top experience. I once lived near Wilberforce College in Ohio. First time I’d ever heard about him. Now it will be good to see the movie.
Here is this…
http://www.theamazingchange.com/
Thanks for the link Kimberly - I signed the petition. I didn’t know too much about Wilberforce an hour ago - then he was spoken about on Focus on the Family today, I read an article on Christianity Today about him a few minutes ago, and now Mike has highlighted this film as well. What a blessing - thanks.
At the National Pastors Convention, we received a copy of Kevin Belmonte’s biography of William Wilberforce that the movie is based on and we also saw a clip from the movie. Looks good. Several hundred among those attending the convention got to see the movie as well and we heard good reviews.
Peace.
Just thought I would point out that it wasn’t Richard Wilberforce–his name is William Wilberforce. You can learn more about the upcoming movie at http://www.amazinggracemovie.com.
I thought comming to the big-screen would be Mike Cope’s Singing the Classics.
The movie sounds good. I heard about it on NPR today. Funny how the movie industry has discovered the faith market.
I can’t access the url - it gives me the following:
“FORBIDDEN
You tried to access a document for which you don’t have privileges.”
I’ve tried with both IE and Mozilla, but no luck.
Suggestions anyone?
“Wilberforce was a man of deep faith, a wonderful example of how the Gospel changes lives and improves society”
The OT allows one to beat a slave as long you don’t knock his teeth out or immobilize him for 2 days (Deut). Supposedly, this decree is straight from the loving God of the gospel to Moses (or whoever).
Agreeing slavery is wrong is not peculiar to the gospel. Atheist can believe slavery is wrong based on being a decent human being.
One again Christians latch on to man’s goodness in order to self correct God and keep him\her intact. The Bible had a lot to do with keeping slavery alive. But 1785 years before and during this time the Bible was used to advocate slavery. The Bible doesn’t even denounce its practice. It just tells one to be a good slave.
Sounds like Wilberforce made the right decision because he was decent human being, who thought people were not cattle.
Man protecting God’s reputation again. God should have told Moses that people were not traded as goods, no matter how you treat them. Jesus and Paul should have denounced it. Guess it took Wilberforce to set God straight.
Country Fred, my mom once advised me not to argue with someone who enjoys it too much. But I don’t perceive you to be one of those folks.
I hope your drawn to this blog because there are Christians who post here who are willing to trade ideas with you without getting abusive … some who are trying their best to be like Christ.
That said, have you ever thought about the culture in which God’s instructions on slavery were given? It was warlike and primitive, and prisoners were often taken and sold as slaves as n act of mercy - they were not killed outright.
And as long as slavery held a place in the culture, it did serve to illustrate that we become slaves to what we serve … if ourselves, then not others; if God, then others.
And in that kind of Christ-seeking culture, slavery could not stand forever; it had to go.
God didn’t have to tell us it was wrong. His Son came to our world to suffer like a slave to show us how wrong it was.
Country Fred, be careful confusing the Bible with God.
Keith,
Thanks for your words. I do not like to argue for arguing sake. I do come here because I like the way Mike writes about his family. He gives up conferences to coach his son. I find this refreshing.
I disagree with some of what he writes and some of it (very little) and some of the comments make me irritated. I am certain no one means to irritate me. I am sure I irritate others and that is not my intent.
It irritates me that Christians believe that their is no acceptable morality apart from their faith. That God is loving is basis of morality.
The God you describe does not appear to be loving his children in this very real world. It seems to me that good people love mankind and God has nothing to do with it.
I don’t buy into that “I can’t be a good man and neighbor” unless I am a Christian.
Your arguement seems to make excuses for God. A true God would not need excuses. His\her actions would speak themselves instead of his “children” trying to craft some defense.
Larry,
It would be refreshing to not confuse the Bible with God. But it is the traditional book which Christians somehow derive God’s traits.
I would like that all would love their neighbor as they do themselves and chunk the whole religion thing. It seems to be something that good people (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic,..) can embrace on and quit fighting.
If and atheist Mother Teresa does her duty to serve mankind, why should you try to convert her?
Country Fred,
Can you envision a world where God directly protected his people in clearly visible ways that ANYONE could discern? What would that world look like? Any idiot would be able to see that being a “God person” is the obvious , logical choice. There is no room or need for faith in that scenario.
One loving thing that God did, which seems to set up some of your frustration with Christianity, is to give us free will. We must choose to love Him. Without that choice, it is not love.
Another perspective - which I suspect will be irritating to you - is that there is much more to life than the few years we have on this earth. We must “endure for a little while” before we participate the next phase of life. And how we handle this one sets up a lot of how we will get to handle the next one.
Without intending to before I started, I think I just hit the ideas of faith, hope, and love. How about that?
If I have misinterpreted or misrepresented any of what you said, I apologize.
Michael
Let me add - I appreciate you showing up here, Fred.
About 300 Bostonians (Christians and non-Christians) will see Amazing Grace tomorrow night for free, thanks to a generous donor who bought an entire theater’s worth of tickets for opening night. The event is co-sponsored by a graduate student group at Harvard and the Boston Faith & Justice Network, in which my wife and I are leaders. We will use the event as an opportunity to educate and act upon the slavery that still exists in many places around the world. Those interested in attending had until Wednesday night at 9 pm to RSVP, but the show was booked up by Wednesday morning (word went out Tuesday that the show would be free). In fact, even though I was heavily involved in promoting the event, I was first told that we wouldn’t be able to go because the theater was full. (we were able to get the last 2 tickets thanks to a friend in high places…)
Needless to say, we’re excited to see that so many people are interested in seeing how one person of faith did what he could to make huge changes in his country. It’s inspiring to think that each of us might have a similar impact in our era.
Fred, you CAN be a good neighbor and friend without being a Christian. Each of us knows a person who fits that same description.
If somebody told you that you can be a good neighbor and friend ONLY if you are a Christian, they were mistaken.
Free will is a big player in the discussion that you have initiated. It probably doesn’t make a lot of sense to you. Get in line!
Please keep questioning us. It’s good for us, and I hope it has some value to you also.
DU
Maybe God uses slavery to direct humankind to Jesus? I do believe He touched the soul of John Newton, Wilberforce, and a host of others to bring about abolition - I don’t think it just happened because these people didn’t like slavery. Thanks for the thought-provoking ideas.
I’m sure the movie is wonderful, but I too cringe when I see Christians waving flags and congratulating themselves for their advancement of diversity. The record here is not something to be proud of. Sunday mornings remain the most segregated hour of the entire week in many parts of our country. The South (the Bible belt) was forced by the courts (activist judges) to integrate our school systems. Most all of our (CoC) schools saw no problem with the segregated system at the time. Many evangelical churches still have little tolerance for the participation or leadership of women in their worship services. GLBT individuals aren’t even welome in the door.
Many wonderful things have come about because of our country’s religious history. Unfortunately, diversity is certainly not one of them.
Great to see some kind comments about Wilberforce and your recognition of this compelling time from history.
Thought some of you might be interested in the BBC Radio programmes presented by Melvin Bragg, which began today and was fantastic! Here’s the link, and you can ‘listen again’:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime.shtml
Also, many communities such as our village are beginning an interfaith Bible study through Churches Together for this season of Lent, entitled ‘Set all free’. In case you would be interested seeing what the resources are like here is the link for that: http://www.setallfree.net/
As we don’t have a lot of Christians in our village community our three churches in the parish (Anglican, Baptist, Methodist) are in continual fellowship to encourage all in the faith — Churches Together has been a great bridge to bring us together.
Blessings to all …
David U,
“Free will is a big player in the discussion that you have initiated. It probably doesn’t make a lot of sense to you.” I have heard this over and and would like your take or anyone’s on these two things:
1. Why do Christians feel the need to accept things that do not make sense? Why don’t they pursue a model where modern reality plays a dominant role? I know they are unanswerable questions but the journey should not stop at “it doesn’t make sense so I’ll accept it”. Most great things have come from women and men who refused to let this be the final statement to their problem.
2. Free will seems to me like a safety net for the Almighty. If I can chose to be evil and not follow God I can also choose good and not follow God (ie moral atheists).
Thanks David for your kind words.
2.
OT: There is a group of men who are looking forward to seeing you tonight and tomorrow in Atlanta, Georgia. My husband is one of those people. If you see a rather tall, handsome guy with glasses and graying hair, that’s him.
Fred, I’m honored you think I may be capable of answering some of your questions!
When I said “get in line”, I meant behind me.
Mike and many others are more qualified to answer your questions, but I will try and address them to some degree.
If you will email me at dunderwood@harding.edu, we can continue this discussion via email. I look forward to discussing this more in depth with you.
Your friend,
DU
Country Fred, I think most of us Christians accept things that don’t make sense because we have to … just like everyone else. Life doesn’t make sense. Death doesn’t make sense. Most of all, God doesn’t make sense. Why in heaven would He leave its glory in the person of His Son to live a difficult life and die a miserable death? It makes no sense - if the only sense you have is logic.
But He did it because free will - choice - made it necessary. He didn’t create us flawed; we chose to be flawed. To make us perfect and make us more like Him, something had to die: us. Our old selves. Our old nature. So He came as an example to us, willing to live a life full of better choices; willing to die so that we could.
It is a safety net. Not for Him, though.
For us.
Thanks Keith. We just come to the table with a different set of assumptions. And you are right, things don’t make sense even if all you have is logic.
But the things that don’t make sense to me are a mystery after I have expounded logic.
I don’t want to live in a world that makes perfect sense, but I do want to live in world where explainable things are not given to mystery.
I used to believe in a God and thought he was loving until the reality surrounding me did not reflect that idea.
I think we do agree that we should love our neighbor as ourself and I feel linked to everyone on this blog because of that; despite my disbelief in a caring God.
We do indeed agree on loving our neighbor as we love ourselves as a definite should!
What most Christians would agree on is that God deeply cares about the mess in our world, but wants to work through us to set it right again. Tidying it up in some spectacular way Himself would leave no doubt in anyone’s mind - and faith would have no purpose. In fact, neither would we.
And if we’re being both honest and humble, we’d have to confess that we’ve pretty much muddled the job so far.
I saw the movie tonight. It was excellent.
About God and slavery though, I am personally against slavery much in the same way I am against alcoholism. It’s not slavery itself, but much more that men can’t help themselves but to mistreat each other. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a slave, homeless man, preacher, banker, drug addict….We have to view each other through the eyes of Christ. I think we make too much a big deal about abolishing slavery sometimes, like this was somehow the redemption that Africans needed. It is foolish to think that we can make laws that redeem man. I think politically and morally slavery needed to come to an end because we could no longer have slaves and see them as people at the same time. It wasn’t the slavery that was the problem. It was the heart. And Fred, that is very much biblical and Godly.
Kyle, maybe so.
Maybe you, Rex, Keith and Mike got it right. I read the bible, know what’s in it and did not find anything that told me what I didn’t already know was wrong.
I have known and know when I am doing something wrong. I do not need a document to tell me and certainly don’t need one that helps me rationalize my behavior.
I’ll bet most people can’t name a single thing they thought was right deep down their heart and then read the bible and were convinced it was truly wrong.
Most people use it to confirm their already intact belief system. That is why southern Christians had no problem owning people. The bible set a precedent and never condemned it.
Maybe you are right about the bible, but maybe I am too. History seems to be on my side though.
Saw Amazing Grace Friday night, and posted a review of it here. To summarize, it’s inspirational in every way and I recommend that you go see it. Take the kids.