Nothing Worth Proving Can be Proven

To the computer experts out there: Is Vista as good as “they” (translation: Bill Gates) say? Will it match OS-X?

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I wasn’t in Fresno long this past weekend. But it was long enough to get a “fix” for my Trader Joe’s addiction. My new stash should last me until Pepperdine lectureship. Why no Trader Joe’s in TX?

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From Alister McGrath:

It is hardly surprising that many are attracted to simple solutions to complex problems. Yet these rightly cause suspicion. We have become cynical of solutions that are too neat and claim to explain everything. We are as weary as we are wary of too-confident answers to difficult questions. The world we experience is just too messy and fuzzy to fit completely into the orderly systems that some crave and others fear. We have to learn to live in an untidy world in which we are not certain of everything — a world in which there are unanswered questions. Some panic at this thought. How can we live when we cannot be confident of anything? The only certainty of our age seems to be that there is no certainty at all. Yet even this confident assertion contradicts itself — like the statement that Bertrand Russell recalled seeing written on a college blackboard: “All statements written on this blackboard are false.” . . .

We have to learn to live with the fact that we cannot be certain of many of the most important things about life. We can be certaint hat 2 + 2 = 4; but that is hardly going to give us a reason to live and die, or cause our hearts to beat a little faster with excitement. Yet with the greater questions of life, we have to learn to live with a degree of uncertainty. Tennyson captures this dilemma perfectly in his poem “The Ancient Sage” (1885):
For nothing worthy proving can be proven,
nor yet disproven: wherefore thou be wise,
cleave ever to the sunnier side of doubt.

For Tennyson, anything that was worth believing could not be proved with certainty. It involved a leap of faith — a recognition that the clues to the meaning of the universe do not provide an invincible case for a meaningless cosmos or one brought into being by a caring and loving God. Perhaps we can give up and walk away from the big questions that are raised. Yet in the end, this does not really satisfy us. Might not we be missing out on something important — and even exciting?

46 Responses to “Nothing Worth Proving Can be Proven”


  1. 1 Christopher Smith

    Is Vista as good as “they” say

    I would say “heck no”. None of the improvements (and I freely acknowledge that improving Windows is no difficult task…) are anything you can’t get already in OS X or Linux, and there are many significant downsides to “upgrading”. I recommend the BadVista.org site for details.

  2. 2 Beaner

    Did you get any ‘2 Buck Chuck’ while you were there?

  3. 3 Mike

    Beaner - It was a nuts and dried berries trip. “Two Buck Chuck” doesn’t fly well.

    By the way, here’s an interesting article that works on this principle: “Don’t eat anything your great-great-grandmother wouldn’t recognize as food.” Great premise.

  4. 4 Terry

    They have opened quite a few “Trader Joes” in the Atlanta area.

  5. 5 Richard

    I remember many years ago when I was a teenager and our church was strongly influenced by teachers of logic and syllogisims. It was a surreal would to me. This one guest preacher would come and preach and every point would be in the form of a syllogism, but one statement that was made seemed simple enough. “If you cannot prove the existence of God then humans cannot be held responsible for that which they cannot know.” It was basically an attack on Pascal’s Wager. I have wondered about that over the years.

  6. 6 Mike

    Terry - I’ll be in Atlanta in three weeks. Maybe I’ll have time to feed my addiction again. :)

  7. 7 Steve Jr.

    We’re lucky enough to have 5 Trader Joe’s in the Boston area, though we don’t have any that are too convenient to where we live (ironically enough). They’ve really mastered the concept of good “food” — not “nutrients” — that is not astronomically expensive. It’s really an amazing place.

    Oh, and I had read the “Unhappy Meals” article this past weekend and was very impressed. It was enlightening. It’s hard to exaggerate the heavy-handed influence that politics and corporations have on the food industry — and thus Americans’ health. Case-in-point, the change in wording from “eat less [red meat and milk]…” to “eat more [low-fat foods].”

    It’s hard to imagine a sector of our American culture in which corporations do not have a powerful lobby.

  8. 8 TWD

    I’m telling people the same thing about Vista as I did about XP and 2000 and every other Windows version before: wait until Service Pack 1 comes out. I hear they’re already working on it.

  9. 9 Beaner

    I didn’t say it had to leave Fresno!!!! BTW - When you’re in Atlanta, buy yourself a tub of the mini oatmeal cookies - they’re excellent!!!

  10. 10 GKB

    Mike,
    Why settle for Vista, when you could have OS X, which is what the M$ engineers tried to rip off!

    Just wait for Leopard…

  11. 11 ZZPuck

    Great quote, Mike.

    Mac rules, PC drools! You’ve seen the Mac Vs PC ads in American. Check out their British counterpart.

    http://www.apple.com/uk/getamac/ads/

    Peace.

  12. 12 Happy

    We have Grapevine Market in Austin but alas it’s no “Trader Joe’s”. Though with Central Market and Whole Foods I think we can make it without “TJ”. Vista is a bunch of code (stating the obvious). Most of us who use our computers for work should have switched to Linux & Open Office but try telling the head office that. So we lumber along in XP & probably Vista in the future using only firefox as the means of living outside the box.

  13. 13 Richard

    I still remember the day I was saved. I mean the day I started using a Mac. Macs rule!!!!

  14. 14 clint

    I can prove that God loves me if I can prove that he exists. I can prove that God exist if I am able to stand up and walk. But if I stand up and walked I no longer walk by faith. Without faith it is impossible to be pleasing to God. Can proof and faith coexist?

  15. 15 Mark

    The McGrath quote is interesting. There are definitely some problems that require complex solutions. On the other hand, sometimes I think solutions are more simple than people want to admit. When Jesus said, “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”, that sounds pretty clear to me. Sometimes when we seek complexity, I fear we’re seeking a way out of doing the obvious good we ought to be. That having said, there are some unanswered questions.

    It seems that God has given us ample evidence of his existence and his will, but we have no undeniable “proof”. I used to struggle a lot with the existence of unanswered questions, but I’m getting to where the mysterious things about God are the ones that strengthen my faith in him. How can God be one and three? At first it appears to be a stumbling block. However, if a person asked me to “describe the aroma of coffee in such a way that someone who’s never smelled it before can know exactly what it’s like”, I couldn’t do it! If I can’t even explain the aroma of coffee, how could I explain “that-than-which-nothing-greater-can-be-thought”?

    It really makes more sense for things of God to be deep and complex. If I could easily comprehend God and explain him with a sentence or two, he wouldn’t be much of a God. I prefer the God who continues to be too grand for my comprehension; who can somehow be three and one; who is inexplicably filled with infinite compassion for fallen human beings who will likely hurt him again and again.

    Trusting God takes a leap of faith, but so does denying him.

    —————–

    I don’t know this Trader Joe’s you speak of. It sounds potentially dangerous for me to try it.

  16. 16 Kathy

    Things I miss about San Diego: [other than friends and weather]

    *Trader Joe’s
    *Costco
    *Windmill Farms
    *Whole Foods
    *Hills, Mountains, Valleys & the Pacific Ocean
    *Colorful vegetation

    Things I love about Abilene [other than preachermike.com, of course] :)

    *Highland
    *Friends
    *HEB’s green grocer
    *Big, beautiful skyscapes
    *Colorful sunrises and sunsets

  17. 17 Alex

    “Is Vista as good as “they” (translation: Bill Gates) say?”

    From everything I’ve seen, I have to say no. It’s an improvement over XP, but it’s “evolutionary rather than revolutionary.” It’s a bad sign when one of the biggest new features they’re advertising is the new Alt+Tab program switcher. They had originally planned a variety of new features, but many of them have since been dropped.

  18. 18 Jordan Hubbard

    I switched. Macs just work.

    Richard, I want more about your last post.

  19. 19 Sean

    As many computer experts have said, “It’s like Microsoft put Mac OS-X on a bulletin board and told their programmers, ‘Copy that’.” Only it’s not that good!

  20. 20 T.C.

    Oops…. didn’t close my link on that last comment. Silly me.

  21. 21 Jeff

    We don’t have any Trader Joe’s here in Ashland, Ohio…..

    I’m a Windows user, and I can say confidently that Vista will, in no way, measure up to OS-X. I’m sticking with XP until I can get a Mac.

  22. 22 AtlantaBob

    Just having Trader Joe’s come to Atlanta was fabulous enough.

    But - get this: They have only been in my community for 2 months and they are already the #1 supplier of perishables to the food pantry.

    It’s too good to be true…

  23. 23 Alan

    Ok, to blend the various topics in this article… There can be no certainty about your operating system. Doesn’t matter which one you pick. WinXP with service pack 2 isn’t bad as operating systems go. If you have that, I’d suggest waiting until you buy your next computer to move to Vista.

    Personally I generally use Linux.

  24. 24 kerry

    My experience when I was in a firm with three windows machines: over $500.00 per month in “nerd” consulting.

    My experience since I started my own firm four years ago with three macs: not one crash, not one virus, not one spyware program, not one minute of downtime.

    Having used both platforms for extended periods of time, for multiple business and personal applications, I can say without a doubt that Mac OSX tops Windows in every single category. I will NEVER turn to the dark side again.

  25. 25 JAW

    Every August, the LA Times Sunday magazine (”West”) publishes what it calls the Power List, ie, the most powerful 100 people in Southern California. Last year, #9 (I believe) was not an individual, but a group of individuals, all pictured wearing TJ’s bags on their heads. Dubbed “The Anonymous Taste-Testers of Trader Joe’s,” they were ranked so highly because their last and every taste whim determined what was served on a high percentage of California dinner tables.

    How does one get that gig? :)

  26. 26 Matt Worthington

  27. 27 Matt Worthington

    Ok… so I tried to just post the video… but you should check this video out.

    It’s from the NY Times.

    It’s a really sarcastic look at the Vista and OS X Debate…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDNuq94Zg_8&eurl

  28. 28 Alan

    On paper, the new security features in Vista surpass OS/X. Here is an interesting comparison.

    http://www.matasano.com/log/611/gunar-petersons-os-security-features-chart/#comments

    It still remains to be seen whether Microsoft has implemented those things correctly.

    OTOH OS/X still holds the ease of use by a wide margin. And it still suffers fewer attacks than the combined set of Windows versions.

  29. 29 Alan

    Here’s a better source for the operating system security comparison. See slide #41 (or all the slides if you really want the technical background)

    http://rjohnson.uninformed.org/toorcon8/rjohnson%20-%20Windows%20Vista%20Exploitation%20Countermeasures.ppt

  30. 30 Todd

    If you decide to come back to your roots, we have a Trader Joes in St. Louis. I’m going there right now to pick up some stuff for lunch.

  31. 31 john zebedee

    Move out to Oregon and you can get your fill of Trader Joes!

    http://www.jesusisnowhere.blogspot.com

  32. 32 Brad

    Ya’ll are just a bunch of Windowphobics. ;)

  33. 33 Tammy Marcelain

    I LOVE my MAC! It makes me so happy. I am counting down the days to the Leopard release!

  34. 34 Marilyn

    About the Vista - No, No, and No!

  35. 35 Kathy

    I’ve had MACs, I’ve had PCs - I’ve learned to be content no matter the circumstances. ;)

  36. 36 Amy

    Wow, I’m really out of the loop over here. Never heard of Vista, OS-X or Trader Joe’s (or McGrath, for that matter)! So…I’m not really sure why I’m commenting on this one, just thought that was funny.

    Through my weakness he is made strong. Does that apply to ignorance as well? :)

  37. 37 Homer

    Trader Joe’s, why no Trader Joe’s in Texas? After reading the book (Adventures in Shopping The Story of Trader Joe’s) I learned that Trader Joe’s is owned by Aldi in Germany. Aldi is Bentonville’s worst nightmare, since they sell it cheaper and stack it higher than Bentonville Alias “Wal-Mart”. Trader Joe’s is in population areas of high wealth, diverse groups, LOTS OF PEOPLE, lots of different people, but mainly LOTS of people (mainly Blue State People, my own analysis) who seem to appreciate organic, unique , private label goods. They rent low out of favor retail space–which we have plenty to choose from in Texas—especially Abilene, and they do about $1200 per ft in sales per yr vs 400 in Wal-mart.
    My guess: Austin would be there first location. Then Houston.
    Aldi might be sooner, closest Aldi’s is Okla City. Yes some are raving fans of Aldi’s. I am of Trader Joe’s.
    $2buck Chuck may one day make it to the Lone Start Longneck State.
    Nothing Redmond or Bentonville can produce can beat OS-X, the new version will be years ahead of Redmond.

  38. 38 KentF

    How do people have time to live AND stay current with computer junk?

  39. 39 Roland

    I have no reason at all to switch to Vista. XP works just fine for me. I agree with Jeff up there that I will stick with XP for another 5 - 8 years until I finally get a Mac.

  40. 40 Amy

    Oooohhh. So Vista is replacing XP. I finally got XP this past summer when my ME version died. You should see my van.

  41. 41 Kathy

    Mike :)

    I just sent an invitation email to Trader Joe’s to come into Abilene and occupy some of our empty buildings in the restored city center. How ya’ like that for pro-active? LOL

    http://www.traderjoes.com/contact_us_selection.html

  42. 42 MH

    If your a fan of Trader Joe’s you will probably appreciate this site:

    http://www.mouthrevolution.com (scarred my second grader and her friends to DEATH with this clip:)
    Might also add: Meatrix .com

    The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. Albert Einstein, What I Believe, 1930

  43. 43 vynette

    Mark, you said: “There are definitely some problems that require complex solutions. On the other hand, sometimes I think solutions are more simple than people want to admit.”

    Most issues to do with Christianity are quite simple. Only the mysteries taught in theological colleges give the impression of ‘complexity.’

    The Bible places before us God’s great plan from the time of Creation to the time of physical rebirth in the Kingdom of God.

    It works methodically through several phases toward the realisation of the ultimate ideal - the Kingdom of God on earth.

    The unscriptural doctrines of the Trinity, Miraculous Incarnation, etc, serve no purpose other than to make understanding of the Kingdom plan quite impossible.

  44. 44 Rob

    I know that I exist with certainty, and to me, that is worth believing. Tennyson would have better said: “For not all worthy proving can be proven…”

    This was written on a 17″ MacBook Pro Core Duo.

  45. 45 Rob

    By the way, if you want to learn about a mathematical proof that demonstrates that not all that is true can be proven, see the works of Kurt Godel, one of the greatest logicians in history.

    Incompleteness
    by Rebecca Goldstein

    Godel’s theorem is at once complex and beautiful. Struggling through it will make you realize just how wonderfully complex the mind is and how complexity is required to understand truth. To say that most issues associated with Christianity are quite simple takes for granted the complex nature of the system that can even say, erroneously, that most issues associated with Christianity are quite simple.

  46. 46 Timelord

    Actually, christianity is absurd. Deism makes more sense.
    See http://www.deism.com.
    However, even so, I suspect god doesn’t exist anyway.

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