1. I don’t get most church television advertising. Who’s the market? People of other churches? Nonchristians? (”Honey, I just saw this church that said they’re friendly and have fun. I know we don’t believe, but why don’t we try it out?”) Lapsed Christians?
2. I don’t get walking around in Target or HEB or 7/11 with a Bluetooth earphone. They look goofy. And I don’t like seeing the number of people lined up in the restrooms at the airport who never even pause in their phone conversations.
3. I don’t get the “boys only club” mentality of many churches. A couple times Paul put restrictions on women because of the culture. If we planted a church in Kabul, we’d want to be mindful of that culture, too. (Remember when the CNN reporter was told that if she wouldn’t wear a burka they’d bring her home and send someone else? She suddenly got enlightened about the appropriateness of a burka in Afghanistan.) But here in America — where women share in all levels of society? What must people think — that they’ve entered the “preserve 1954 society”? Church is transformed when we hear the voices of daughters, wives, grandmothers, sisters. In baptism we’ve said that your voice doesn’t get excluded just because of your skin color (a mistake we’ve now admitted) or because of your gender (a mistake we’re still waiting to admit).
4. I don’t get the fascination with dispensational premillennialism. There are some genuinely good things “out there” with which we should be interested. This is not one of them. (I know, put up or shut up. I’ll write more later.)
5. I don’t get Aggie fever. Could that be because I was a baby on the UT campus, from which both of my parents graduated? Apparently my first words were “hook ‘em horns.”
6. I don’t get why so many rich white kids like gangsta music. Driving from the country club to the suburban home listening to obscene music about the difficulties of poor urban life. (So . . . is this how our parents felt about CCR, Steppenwolf, and the Stones?)
7. I don’t get Michael Richards and his vomiting of racial slurs at a comedy club. There’s even a Seinfeld episode where he helps Jerry understand that handling hecklers at a comedy club is part of the business.
I DO get:
1. Dr. Phil. I’m not usually a pop shrink fan. But the constant asking of “How’s that been working for you?” just makes sense. (Truthfully, I’ve only seen him a couple times. But both of those times and in a piece he wrote he kept asking this good question.)
2. Old hymns. Please, let’s don’t make it an either/or. Bring in the new. Keep the best of the old. Don’t you still feel the majesty when you sing “All Hail the Power of Jesus’ Name” or the peace when you sing “Be With Me, Lord”? Sure, give me almost everything Chris Tomlin puts out. But don’t let go of “O Sacred Head,” “O Love That Will Not Let Me Go,” and “It Is Well With My Soul.”
3. John Madden. You either do or don’t. I do. Bam!!
4. New little league rules for pitching. Finally, it’s going to be harder, thanks to the mandatory pitch count, for coaches to ruin the arms of kids.
5. The value of a great teacher. Not a value measured in dollars, apparently. But you can change the world — one challenging child at a time.
6. The dad dying of hypothermia as he was hiking for help while his family waited in the car. As it turns out, he’d have been saved if he’d stayed with them. But I still get it. Whatever you thought you could do to give your family a chance to survive.
7. Grandparenting. I’ve always thought grandparents were a little over the line. I’ve, ummm, reframed my thinking on this one.
Nice post, Mike. It’s fun to be able to “see into someone else’s world” for just a moment.
Blessings to you and the fam!
I came to yours from Technorati and the watchlist for culture.
Interesting post and interesting blog in general!
Hello from Norway:-)
Is it strange or not, you from Neosho, me from Michigan living in Georgia and I did nothing but shake my head up and down as I read your post today. The idea of culture and tradition getting entangled with church theology. I was thinking the other day how we, sometimes look at Muslims and Jews and ask “Why don’t THEY get it.” And we, meanwhile, limp along too.
Welcome, RennyBA. It’s a long way from Norway to Abilene, TX — except in this little world of blogging. Thanks, Chris and Terry.
Thanks Mike and hello Norway! I don’t get Christians that think it’s reasonable to consume more calories than a small, third world country daily, but alcohol is sinful. I don’t get elders that claim they’re not control freaks, but they then write a memo in the bulletin stating all decisions the elders won’t make must to go through the decision making committee - which answers directly to the elders weekly.
Ditto on your “don’t get” #3. And, ditto to KentF’s wondering about elders.
Neat post. Be warned I may pilfer the idea if life slows down enough that I can add another post to my blog.
I am really waiting for you to say more about the premil. stuff. That is a big one that I don’t get, and I especially don’t get why tons of our folks have devoured the “Left Behind” books. The series theology is almost as bad as the writing. I would like to be where you are with the role of women, but as powerful as you are as a preacher I wasn’t convinced by listening to your sermon on the topic, and I promise I listened with an open mind. I even read Osburn’s book, and to me he seemed to go off the deep end in the last chapter, but I will still keep studying. I admit that I am a slow learner. I also don’t get why Christians get so bent out of shape over Michael Richards, which they should, but have little if any concern when the names of Deity are used in the most profane ways.
My family has adopted the neat little ‘Lost’ catchphrase: “Live together. Die alone.” Should be true for brothers & sisters in Christ too.
I’m with you on Madden - that guy just makes sense. (And I love that he’s afraid to fly so he takes his tour bus everywhere.)
Michael Richards & Kramer. Actors do not always resemble their characters. Most actors are attracted to parts that are UNLIKE themselves (it’s a form of escapism), but it IS a little ironic, considering that one episode!
You won’t get Aggie fever until you go there and get infected by it. Deep tradition, school pride, excellence in learning all make for quite a school. And the Aggies For Christ program at the A&M Church of Christ was awesome when I was there, thanks to a man named Bob Davidson. Gig ‘em Aggies.
Still writing from Grant’s computer (in Jamaica!!!!)…
Mike…. I always knew there were lots of reasons we get along so well! Some of your points just made me laugh because I’ve thought the same things! Ha!
A little off topic, but the Bluetooth thing reminded me of it…. if you haven’t heard the comedian, Brian Regan, YOU MUST! We have the CD and DVD…. you can borrow it if you want.
I agree that the blue tooth looks dorky Mike. However, it is so easy to use. I just converted my wife to the technology. Try it you might like it.
I still struggle with the womens issue. I agree that Corinth was a cultural issue. I am not so sure about the others.
As far as the one poster about the control freak Elders. Cut them some slack. It is a scary and intimidating job. Unless you have walked in their shoes I would be very slow to criticize.
The old songs are wonderful. One of the many new songs (at least to me) that I have come to love is “As the Deer Pants for Water”. Hated it the first time I heard it. Love it now. Ya’ll have a nice day. Weldon
Oh, and yell leaders. A&M doesn’t have any namby, pamby cheerleaders. We have yell leaders and yell practice, where you get to go the night before a game and practice yelling. And when they turn the lights down for you to practice kissing your girlfriend, that wasn’t so bad either.
Hi Mike
I realy get the father walking to save his family. I was in a situation many years ago when my youngest was an infant. The family was traveling to the DC area on Christmas eve that year to be with Janey’s family. We had been having car trouble the whole way because the weather was so cold that the automatic choke kept opening and flooding out the car. The temperature was below zero with a strong wind blowing. About midnight the car stalled once again but I was unable to get it started again. I was 24 years old with a wife and two small children, one just turned 2 and the other about 6 months. I was wonderin what on earth I was going to do. We had not seen another vehicle in an hour or so and there were no house lights in sight. Remember it is Christmas eve. I considered trying to walk for help. Gratefully after praying for God to take care of the situation I tried once again to start the car with imediate success. The wave of relief that I felt was over whelming.
I continualy am amazed at the way He shows his presence in our lives.
Rinn - Then you really DO get the drama of that story!
Brad - while I don’t get the Aggie fever (that borders on being another world religion), I definitely get Aggies for Christ. I’ve been thankful for that group so many times.
And Richard: thanks, brother, for giving the message a hearing. I love that openness of spirit — even when don’t wind up convincing each other!
I’m with you on a lot of these things. On #1 of the “don’t gets”, there’s a church in Searcy that televises their services. Their preacher really cracks me up. In the intro, he always makes a point to say, “Dress however you want…God doesn’t make a big deal about it, so neither do we.” When he preaches, he usually wears black pants, formal black shoes, black dress socks….and a bright Hawaiian shirt! There’s just nothing about this guy that says “Let’s party!” I really don’t see what would be so harmful if he dressed the top half of himself to match the bottom half. He’s not fooling anybody. Is wearing Hawaiian shirts the new key to effective evangelism? Maybe he’s figured something out that I haven’t…
Can we take #3 of the “I do not get…” list to its logical conclusion? I don’t get churches that do not *allow* women positions of leadership such as preacher, deacon or elder but *allow* (I HATE THAT WORD) women to represent all other roles. Just doesn’t make sense.
Mike, re #3 - I’m so thankful to the LORD for bringing me to Abilene and Highland - to be accepted as a fully invested member of Christ’s church before my homegoing to Him, not just a shadow “allowed” to have a role in the men’s organization.
May God continue to pour out blessing upon blessing on the Elders at Highland, the staff and members who have reopened the doors of the Church to everyone; no matter race, ethnicity, gender, generation, social status. You have all blessed me with your including love and faithfulness to God’s desire for each of us in His Church.
As to #7 - welcome to the cheering section! There’s nothing like grandparenting! [and, btw - great grandparenting as well. LOL]
Joe - You mean like the Manhattan Church? They went through a significant period like that. Then further steps were taken. It’s a big jump from understanding the issue to coming to terms with transforming change. Like it or not, time and baby steps may be involved. It’s very easy to stand on the outside with an “all-or-nothing” philosophy. It’s much more difficult to slowly but courageously press forward within a family of believers.
It seems it would be better to say that Paul’s prohibitions in 1 Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2 were “situational” rather than “cultural”. If they were cultural, you would be saying that women keeping silent was the norm of the culture, but that wasn’t true in the Corinthian church with women “praying and prophesying” in ch. 11. There seemed to be some situation in ch. 14 where some women were disrupting the assembly, as were many others like the tongue speakers and prophets stepping all over each other to exercise their gift. Telling the women to be quiet was his way of dealing with that situation, not reflecting appropriate cultural behavior of women.
The 1 Tim passage looks to be dealing with the situation between a husband and a wife, where it seems the wife is forgetting her husband is her head. (Same problem in 1 Cor 11 where the female prayers and prophesiers were stripping off their veil, the sign of submission to their husbands). She is not allowed to rip away from him (usurp) what rightfully belongs to him, headship. The prohibition is not against teaching or having any authority or doing any type of leadership thing, it is in trying to wrestle those things away from her husband and becoming his head and reversing the order of things God established with Adam and Eve.
Or not.
It only doesn’t make sense when you fail to factor in issues like conflict resolution, disagreements about what passages mean, feelings buried under the surface, etc. This sinful world didn’t get to patriarchal rule overnight. I’m so very thankful for small steps being taken by churches. To you (I see that you’re in NYC) that may seem ridiculous. To those who are in the Belt, it’s a necessity. Call it hypocrisy if you want. I’m choosing to be thankful. Is it the last step? By no means! But is it a necessary, courageous step? Absolutely.
Do you really not “get” these things or what? Do you want to “get” them? One is just as fundamentalist as the greatest fundamental when he is limited in the ability to “get” the fundamentalist.
Aren’t the things we don’t “get” the sources of our greatest limitations in ministry and life - since we can do nothing about them until we “get it” - whatever “it” is…
of course this does not apply to anything to do with Aggies…but has everything to do with the LSU Tigers?
Dr. Phil made me shave my mustache. Alana made me grow it back. Last week a man had his picture taken with me in Jim’s. Dr. Phil should have to shave his mustache this time.
Post script. Only women and girly men like Dr. Phil
All right, Jeff. I don’t know whether you’re kidding or not. I’ll assume you are. I’m not sure what “One is just as fundamentalist as the greatest fundamental when he is limited in the ability to get the fundamentalist” means.
But not being able to grasp why someone is drawn to fundamentalism doesn’t make one a fundamentalist. It makes someone a person who doesn’t understand the fascination with fundamentalism. Or in this case, gangsta music by rich white kids, bluetooth earpieces, etc.
Do you ever say, “I just don’t get it”? That doesn’t mean you’re a fundamentalist or a person who has no INTEREST in getting it. It means you’ve thought about it, and you don’t understand the attraction. Or perhaps, in this post, it’s also intended with a bit of a grin.
I’m assuming you’re grinning, too.
I am grinning too… I get the post…
but I do want to grow in my own capacity to get 1, 3, 5, & 7 - it makes for a much more peaceful mindset.
The darkness and arrogance that has insecurely existed in my own soul is what makes me get these things.
Getting humanity increases our ability to love it and lessens our potential to mess it up more severely.
About the fundamentalist thing - forget it - It would take too long to explain what I was trying to say.
Believers who hold, based on Scripture and their own life experience, that men and women have “different roles in the church” do so in faith, and are to be respected and not despised, even if disagreed with. The worst motives of “hold down, suppress, discriminate” should not be attributed to these brothers and sisters.
Believers who conclude, based on Scripture and life experience, that there are few if any “role” distinctions, rather, that all should be free to exercise their God-given gifts, do so in faith, and are likewise not to be despised. The worst motives of “conforming to the world” and “disregard for clear teaching of Scripture” should not be attributed to them.
Thanks largely to the consistent voice of one man, this is the approach taken by our congregation in Houston, applying the principles of Romans 14. While it has not been easy, a major fracture was avoided, as we learned that convincing the “others” that we are “right” is not the answer.
Hey Emily, as you explained to Jeff, I’m saying, “I just don’t get it.”
I don’t get:
1. Baseball Obsession. I realize I’m flirting with heresy in this space by saying this, but…while I can sit down and enjoy the occasional game, I just don’t get the memorize-the-stats-and-talk-about-it-all-the-time obsessiveness that I encounter from time to time. Don’t get me wrong. If you like the game, I’m glad you find joy in it. But, once I’ve reached my tolerance level, baseball is just really, REALLY boring…
2. End Times Intolerance. In a sense, I “get” the dispensational premill thing, inasmuch as I understand where it is based in scripture and why it is so alluring to folks. What I DON’T get is why the Left Behind crowd tends to be so intolerant of anyone who buys into end-times interpretations that have been around for more than 200 years. Is there not room for us to hear the voices of the church fathers and modern amill/postmill scholars on these issues?
3. Public cell phone use in general. Particularly in airports. If I have to listen to one more loud-mouthed exec or sales person publicly beat his/her chest over some silly issue of office politics, I may go nuts.
4. Michael Richards specifically and racial intolerance generally.
I DO get:
1. Madden. Best football color guy. Ever.
2. Mike. I count it a blessing every week to have a preaching minister that is well-grounded theologically and exegetically. Getting to read this blog every day is a bonus.
3. Creation/Covenant theology. I have a lot of friends who still struggle with it, but for me, the most sensible way to approach God/scripture is to see it as a narrative about how God has covenanted to, and is moving to restore creation. Much different from the Left Behind approach, where we all can’t wait to ESCAPE creation.
A thought on Michael Richards’ tirade: I think had the people been bald and white, he might have gone on an out-of-control verbal tantrum on the uselessness of bald people, and how they should all wear hats. Much in the same way a child will take something they see that is outside of “standards” — a freckly-faced kid, an overweight kid, etc., and when they get angry make fun of that one thing (does that make sense?).
I think that’s what happened, and why afterwards Michael Richards could say (and feel he was being honest) that he was not a racist.
Mind you, I think that there must be some deep-seated hatred inside him to have that bile come out. It makes me examine myself, for I fear that there may be some dishonesty inside of myself, and that I will only discover my own hatred and prejudices in my most angry moments, as Michael Richards has done. I pray that God’s Spirit inside me has made me a loving, not a hating person, but I am still a sinner saved by Grace.
There but for the grace of God go I.
Oh, and the Bluetooth? The first step on our way to becoming the Borg, I think.
Joe and Emily -
My point is that humanity makes alot of really bad decisions in regards to that which they understand the least. making critical judgements in our hearts about things we don’t understand is what leads to some aspects of fundamentalism.
Isn’t the problem with the “boys only club” mentality that people don’t get the original intent of creation theology? I get the boys only club but I don’t like it - I guess that’s what Mike was saying.
Isn’t the problem with the “disp. Premil” mindset that it has a very shallow position on the reign and rule of Christ now and that the kingdom of God is fully manifest now through the spirit. I get the dispensational minset of the “age” that we’re in and the “age” that they’re longing for.
Understanding this helps me to lead 200 of them in my own congregation toward a hunger for the kingdom to come now - on earth as it is in heaven.
“Getting them” enables me to lead and minister to them more effectively.
I don’t get the aggies though - sorry.
And Joe - if you’re the guy I remember being in the band of brothers gathering in Dallas - before you moved to Brooklyn - I just want to say thanks for the work you’re doing there - and all that you’re going through to reshape the culture.
If you’re who I think you are - I met you once - and i’ll never forget your rare tenacity for the kingdom and the brilliant mind the Lord gave you.
keep up the great work
I should add… I DO get little league and the way parents love to coach and watch youth sports.
(Quote) “I don’t get walking around in Target or HEB or 7/11 with a Bluetooth earphone. They look goofy.” (Quote)
They look beyond goofy. Like something straight out of a Star Trek flick. I told my wife, if I ever get one of those and want to walk around town with it in my ear, she has my permission to slap me.
Mike–
I agree that it’s a little much to wear a bluetooth piece out in public as you walk around shopping or what not. But it sure is helpful while driving!
Last year, I was visiting on the phone with an elderly woman at church. I was still writing myself a couple notes from our conversation as it came to a close, so I didn’t immediately hang up the headset. The line was still active, but we had both said goodbye. Then, I heard a toilet flush. I will never look at this woman the same!
mchris - Great, mature words, my friend. Makes me very thankful that you’re one of the leaders where my son and daughter-in-law are members. We’ll loan you your daughter back for the break, but we want her back in January!
Matt - I’ve told many people that I could sit in your Bible class at Highland any day. (And there are lots of great teachers in our Bible classes.) A lawyer who gets N. T. Wright and creation/covenant theology. Makes a big smile form on my face.
Joe - I knew something would draw you out into these comments, my friend.
Hope Ira is doing well. I’ll zip over for an update. Blessings on your whole family and your wonderful mission in Brooklyn! You and Laura are two of my young heroes.
RP - Can I work that story into your wedding somehow? (It’s December, but March is coming!!)
JP - Thanks for your help Sunday night. How do you feed that many middle school kids without taking out a loan? Answer: Domino’s Pizza.
Love what you’re doing in leading that church, Jeff. You’re an amazing man of God.
Don’t mean to ignore the others of you. But I have to run . . . .
Mike, I have to tell you that I truly look forward to visiting this blog. It’s always a breath of fresh air. And I know that I speak for lots of folks when I say “Thank you expanding your ministry of the Word in this way.”
A guy with two bright-and-talented daughters, I’m grateful for everything in and of the church that will point them (and everyone) to the grace and truth revealed uniquely in Christ Jesus. And, of course, not every part of my church culture (southern Churches of Christ) was what it should have been before God. So I’m glad for a good number of recent changes in “our” outlook, actions, emphases, etc. (while I’m more suspicious of “progress” than ever before).
Like Richard, I’m not fully convinced by the ideas you have already put forward under your first point #3 here. For example, any accomodationist interpretation of 1 Timothy 2 runs up against the fact that Paul ties his instruction to creation in verse 13. Also, such a view insists that the people who could say things like “We must obey God rather than men” suddenly became people of convenience in this case. And it’s not just two passages. Fourteen apostles; fourteen men, etc.
Something else–and I admit this is a minor point–I think you’re off-base in your use of 1 Timothy 5:9 as a showcase for contextual interpretation. Paul does not say, “Don’t help those under 60.” He says, “Don’t enroll them.” It’s a Christian-widow social security (and work?) program he’s governing, not general assistance from the congregation (which he’s all for).
Again, I do appreciate your teaching, your questioning and probing, your commitment to the Word which has been given. God has entrusted you with a lot. Keep using it for good.
But perhaps I should add this after a couple brief comments about dispensationalism (and before a more in-depth look). I don’t get the fascination with this fairly recent teaching.
But I, like Jeff, deeply appreciate the spirit of people who are eagerly seeking to follow Christ. This isn’t an issue of fellowship or value.
But there are matters at stake like our view of creation, our understanding of the cross, the nature of the Jew/Gentile church, etc. That’s why it’s worth fellow believers discussing it — even while affirming the Spirit of Christ in one another.
I think it is very difficult to determine what was cultural in Paul’s comments and direction on women. A church that determines to abide by 1 Cor and Timothy is often looked down upon as being closed minded. How can that be when they are following what the New Testament says? No more than other can be 100% confident that an interpretation of culture is correct. There is no indication in scripture that culture has anything to do with it. The direction is under the topic of order in the church. It is true, however, that the first century church patterned the direction of Paul.
I guess my biggest issue is with those that determine their church will interpret these issues differently suddenly decide those that do not are closed minded Pharisees. Neither side should be judgemental and rude about their views. The 1950’s Good Housekeeping article on a “Good Housewife” is no longer accurate. It is a very different topic alltogether to say that what a inspired writer said in scripture no longer applies. I hope I am not closed minded.
Jeff, I’ll forgive you for your “fundamental” LSU comment, as in you fundamentally can’t compare LSU to A&M. I mean, c’mon, you don’t even have a Corp of Cadets, or a Fightin Texas Aggie Band, or a huge bonfire built by people with “pots” on their heads, or a president who will be the next Sec Def of the US, or a fight song that has the words “hullabaloo coneck coneck” and “chigger rigger rum” in it. I accept your apology that I’m sure is forthcoming.
(Though, to be honest, I still don’t know what it means when we sing, “We’re going to beat you all to chigger rigger rum, chigger rigger rum, rough stuff, tough stuff, Texas A&M”)
Here in Oregon, the lost Kim family has touched our community in profound ways (my latest blog post processes some of my surprising grief over it). Just a little adjustment to your observations…They knew where to search for his family’s car because of his footprints, so his trek out to find help did save his family.
It just runs deep in me.
I signed with LSU in 92 - my first time running out of the shoot in tiger stadium was in front of the aggies and while I was running out - the spooky spirit of the Aggies jinxed me and I tripped and fell on my face leading 10 of my teammates down with me.
They thrashed us.
Then in 93 - my first trip to Aggie land - they thrashed us again and Sam Adams almost knocked me out. They beat us again in 94…
Today - it’s a different story.
whoop whoop? What’s that - seriously?
Regarding the end times stuff this is my take, speaking as a psychologist who has studied some of this stuff.
The fascination with the end times is a form of existential defensiveness. The world is a big, scary place. It seems out of control. End times scenarios makes it all less scary. Hurricanes, tsunamis, and wars are not scary in the end times configuration. No, rather than feeling scary they are actually transformed into something comforting because they are a “sign.” All is well, despite all hell breaking loose. The whole belief system, even though it gets dressed up in biblical argument, is really about solace and theodic fears.
Here’s an extended response to your points (this was fun):
What you DON’T get.
1. The Mormon commercials are pretty good, though, and they have the missionary apparatus in place to work with contacts. The Brazilian channel I watch on Dish Network (Globo) frequently plays church commercials, and I really wonder if they work.
2. I work for a cell phone company and think blue tooth is weird, so there..
3. The church I attend is extreme on the boys only thing. Women influence their husbands, but EVERYTHING has to go past the men first.
4. Dispensational premillenialism is a novel fraud.
5. I don’t get your “Aggie fever” either.
6. “I don’t get why so many rich white kids like gangsta music.” They’re wannabes…but they don’t want the problems for real.
7. The character gave the advice, not him. I get what happened, because Scripture tells me about the nature of sin.
What you DO get:
1. I get why people like Dr. Phil…multitudes of people need direction in their lives.
2. I like old hymns too, along with new. I kind of wish churches could go farther back into Latin and Gregorian worship too.
3. Don’t get the Madden thing.
4. I’m not familiar with little league rules.
5. My best teacher was in third and fourth grade (small school, same teacher for both grades). In reality she probably didn’t do anything more remarkable than take me seriously.
6. I understand the dad dying of hypothermia trying to save his family, but there are SO MANY THINGS he did wrong to get to that point. It REALLY puzzles me. Then again, I’m from the country, and in all honesty there are some basic skills that seem like common sense or second nature that a strictly urban upbringing won’t provide.
7. No comments on grandparents.
Kristi - Thanks so much for that part of the story. I had missed it.
Clint - Ha! Women and girly men, huh?
Jeff - It gets worse. My understanding is that at the A & M church, you hear whoop-whoops at baptisms. Is that scriptural? (It is, I would say, good cultural sensitivity!)
Frank - You can well imagine that I’m sitting here wanting to respond.
But let me say this: I appreciate your spirit and your willingness to take a look at this.
TAMU is at its best a great univeristy. But at its worst it is a cult which demands allegiance from its members to an really unhealthy level including cultic rites, worship, masochism (the squeeze), speaking in tongues, and unrealized eschatological hopes (national championships in the past 50 years) Its just over the top when it really gets bad. True story- The AFC singing group came to our congregation about 3 years ago and one of our members got up to pray for the group after their performance. When he said “Texas A&M” during the prayer(!) Aggies in our congregation began to whoop. That’s when I thought it was wacked out.
I am a big fan of AFC and my Aggie brothers and sister, though.
And it wasn’t pass interference in the end zone.
I don’t get people who finish their Christmas shopping in July. Why miss out on all the mad dashing around, long check-out lines and creative budgeting?
I’ll turn my link back on for awhile - I’ve been anti-social! Guess I’m catching the Christmas spirit in all my mad dashing.
Who’s CCR? Isn’t that what the Russians wore on their hockey jerseys. just kidding of course. Cool is the opposite of whatever your parents are… thus white suburban kids turn to gangster/hip hop music rather than polka music and Barry Manilow. I guess it’s part of “the grass is always greener” principal.
Polka? Barry Manilow? To what generation are you referring?
The greener grass theory is right, though, and I sort of cringe when I think of some of the stuff I listened to. In the late 60’s and early 70’s, a time which must have been scary for my folks trying to raise kids anyway, the protest songs we listened to and sang probably irritated or scared them. And I mainly liked them because of the music, not the words. I imagine the same is true with my kids, but I don’t like a lot of the words out there right now, either.
Mike, thanks. Few things in this life do I take more joy in, than my daughter’s situation at ACU and Highland (just as well if she doesn’t read this).
I did want to clarify that the “one man” I mentioned is NOT myself. I wish I had been so wise, rather I was one of those more concerned with being “right”.
In no way do we belittle the earnest desire to be “right”, to hold and to teach sound doctrine and sound theology, to avoid error. It’s just that we mustn’t confuse “rightness” with “rightEOUSness”, which God reckons by faith. And reading Romans 14, I’m not sure he doesn’t reckon “rightness” by faith as well. Else what does it mean, “Let each be fully convinced in his own mind… if he regards it as unclean, it is unclean”. (I am really not comfortable with relativism!)
I figured out that Clint is the Clint whom we knew at Gateway in Portland. We’re talking about little Sylvia, if you can believe it.
Michael
Aggie fever…you don’t get it? Who wouldn’t want to smooch their better half after every TD. Score, Score! Blue Tooth earpieces in Wal-Mart and in Fred’s drives me crazy. I might could warm up to it if I were a stockbroker at an office but walking around the big box stores discussing which deodorant to buy with your significant other? phleease. I love to hear women pray in public. They are so in tune. Chris Tomlin is a genius. Love him. Fun post Granpy Cope.
Thanks for posting about the gender issues. As a life long C of C, Jeanine Reese rocked my world with questions of gender in her women in christian service class. I still struggle with what I have termed the voice veil, or how most c of cs will not allow a woman to speak in an assembly on a regular basis or teach a class above all girls in junior high or high school. I frequently feel sad about how my daugther has never seen a woman speak a word in church. Thank you for your openess on the issue. It gives me great hope.
“Hey honey, what was discussed on Mike’s blog today”?
“Oh, not much really - another typical Friday…..You know - Aggies; Bluetooth; gangsta’ rap vs. 60’s R&R; men vs. women; Dr. Phil; dispensational premillennialism, hmmm, and Mormon commericals.”
“Ok, glad I didn’t miss anything interesting like instrumental music.”
Sublime day.
They call it Blue Tooth and it is hooked to your ear? What is that all about?
To Weldon who loves “As the Deer”–do you prefer the NIV version- “As the deer pants for the water so my souls longs after Thee” or the KJV “As the deer panteth for the water, so my soul longeth after Thee”? Imagine my surpise when I left my conservative CoC congregation where we sang the NIV version and visited an Assembly of God congregation who sings the KJV.
Either way, it’s a scripture song and I love it, too.
At our church As the Deer is a combination of the NIV and KJV. Drives me bonkers.
Well, first ROLL TIDE!!! My husband is a lifetime Texas Ex though.
I don’t get the idea of women participating in worship services . . . I’m from North Alabama but it’s just not done around here.
As for the songs . . . it seems to go to the extreme. We tend to sing all the “new” songs and forget about the old ones. The Old Rugged Cross is one of my favorites . . . my grandmother used to hum it all the time. It brings back so many precious memories. I don’t care at all for all the one-liners . . . reminds me of something you’d write on a Sunday afternoon between church services . . . “thank you thank you Lord . . .” They just don’t seem to have any meaning — anything that helps me reflect . . .
Michael, i would love to catch up. my email is logueclint at yahoo com
reJoyce is a Gateway alumnus also.
I just read, this past summer, Ernest Becker’s The Denial of Death. I read it mostly because Tony Campolo said it was book every preacher should read.
This book does not speak to dispensational premillennialism, but it does give a great summary of man’s search for otherness and meaning in the midst of his fear of death.
Becker claims that it has been “scientifically” proven that the only way for man to deal with his fate, to achieve his innate heroic need, is to give his life up to something greater than the physical, call it God or whatever you wish. Thus he merges psychology with religion, in an interesting way.
He purposes that the denial of death is the key to understanding people’s deepest neuroses–not sure I totally agree there.
Well, perhaps this post is a bit off topic, but how can you be off topic in today’s post?
Peace.
Wow, I’ve never before felt I was in the minority in the church. There is faulty theology in the Left Behind series in my opinion, however I also believe there is faulty theology in the amillenial/postmillenial view.
I do get the premillenial (I wouldn’t say dispensational) fascination. If you grew up in the church of Christ, you’ve probably not studied this view much. Maybe it stems from our split with Disciples of Christ. It isn’t true (at least for me) that this view downplays the cross or the kingdom of God. If anything it elevates it.
I do get the struggling with women’s roles in church. I believe we could have more prominent roles for women , but I don’t correlate the racism that has existed and still exists in the church (very offensive) with our history of limited roles of women in leadership roles. One has been a complete disregard of what the Bible says. The latter has been an attempt to adhere to principles in the Bible, even if it is imperfect.
I don’t get women elders.
I highly recommend the “Ray Walker Songbook Series”, a collection of the old hymns on several CD’s. Ray leads the Prestoncrest CofC in congregational singing. They can be ordered from Dallas Christian Sound, and no I am not connected to the company. If you ever heard these CD’s you would never really want to hear a praise team again, in my opinion. The purpose as stated on the inside cover is to “preserve, secure, and protect, for historical purposes, memories of a time that some have referred to as “the way we were”-a period when all worshippers put a full measure of control, energy and emotion into singing the four-part harmony contained in these songs. These enduring melodies and messages will forever live in our hearts, and these recordings allow all generations to know and research them”.
Mike,
Totally agree with you on the pitching limits in little league.
Feel sorry for the guy who said he doesn’t get the baseball obsession-
statistics,etc. Boxscores are one of life’s greatest pleasures.They tell
you in depth how well or how poorly someone did on a particular day-
wouldn’t it be interesting if every job had their own version of a
baseball boxscore?
And what I totally get is the enjoyment of this blog! It encourages deep thinking and that is always a good thing.
A happy SW Florida Christmas greeting to you!
Preaching to the chior when it comes to this list and me… Especially #2 on the do get list. Why does it alwasy seem to be an either or? I long for a church that has both in one service.
And you know even though Kramer is fictional, he isn’t as funny after what real life Richards did.
I would get the CD’s Chris is talking about, but I am currently jamming out to Zoegroup and thinking about how I never ever want to hear congregational singing ever again just like Brandon Scott Thomas and all of the members of all praise teams everywhere feel.
Obviously, I am just kidding!
Having done a lot of pastoral and clinical counseling/therapy myself and having watched just a little bit of Dr. Phil I feel like making one observation. If I remember Dr. Phil right it seems like he asks “How’s that working for you” to show people that what they were doing is just silly and doesn’t work well. That is not normally the case in most therapeutic situations. Normally behavior is adaptive and functional. Normally we do something because it does work for us in some way. Psychopathology normally starts as normal behavior that become maladaptive when it is no longer needed. So while I like his question, it is not the norm. Behavior is normally done because it works in some way shape or form. The alternative, and this is where Dr. Phil catches them is that it used to work and is now maladaptive and they just haven’t broken the pattern yet. In that case you show them why they started doing it, how it used to work, and why it no longer works that way. Anyway, just my two cents on Dr. phil.
“I don’t get the fascination with dispensational premillennialism.”
The fact is, Mike, Churches of Christ have been more preoccupied with knocking down everyone elses theories on eschatology than we have actually building our own coherent version. I’m afraid that the void that we’ve left has created a vaccume that can be filled by just about anythingthat comes along. Dispensational premillennialism just seems to be the flavor of the day. Are we going to knock this down too or are we going to actually start teaching something?
You don’t know me, but I’ve heard you preach before and I found your blog as a link from Dusty Rush’s blog. Given the comments about old and new songs, I thought some of you would enjoy this explanation about praise songs and hymns if you’ve never seen it. It makes me laugh every time I read it.
Praise Songs explained…
Not long ago a farmer went to the city one weekend and attended the big city church. He came home and his wife asked him how it was. “Well,” said the farmer, “It was good. They did something different, however. They sang praise choruses instead of hymns.”
“Praise choruses,” said his wife, “What are those?”
“Oh, they’re okay. They’re sort of like hymns, only different,” said the farmer.
“”Well, what’s the difference?” asked his wife.
The farmer said, “Well it’s like this - If I were to say to you:
`Martha, the cows are in the corn,’ well that would be a hymn. If, on the other hand, I were to say to you:
`Martha Martha, Martha, Oh, Martha, MARTHA, MARTHA,
the cows, the big cows, the brown cows, the black cows,
the white cows, the black and white cows,
the COWS, COWS, COWS are in the corn,
are in the corn, are in the corn, are in the corn,
the CORN, CORN, CORN,’
Then, if I were to repeat the whole thing two or three times, well that would be a praise chorus.”
Hymns explained…
A young, new Christian from the big city attended the small town church one weekend. He came home and his wife asked him how it was.
“Well,” said the young man, “It was good. They did something different, however. They sang hymns instead of regular songs.”
“Hymns,” said his wife, “What are those?”
“Oh, they’re okay. They’re sort of like regular songs, only different,” said the young man.
“Well, what’s the difference?” asked his wife.
The young man said, “Well it’s like this - If I were to say to you, `Martha, the cows are in the corn,’ well that would be a regular song. If, on the other hand, I were to say to you:
Oh Martha, dear Martha, hear thou my cry
Inclinest thine ear to the words of my mouth.
Turn thou thy whole wondrous ear by and by
To the righteous, inimitable, glorious truth.
For the way of the animals who can explain
There in their heads is no shadow of sense,
Hearkenest they in God’s sun or his rain
Unless from the mild, tempting corn they are fenced.
Yea those cows in glad bovine, rebellious delight,
Have broke free their shackles, their warm pens eschewed.
Then goaded by minions of darkness and night
They all my mild Chilliwack sweet corn have chewed.
So look to that bright shining day by and by,
Where all foul corruptions of earth are reborn.
Where no vicious animal makes my soul cry
And I no longer see those foul cows in the corn.
Then, if I were to do only verses one, three, and four and do a key change on the last verse, well that would be a hymn.”
(author unknown - from an email circulated a few years ago)
That’s classic Mary. But in a COC you’d have to announce the hymn number before singing it!
I agree with #3. I don’t get it. I have two daughters, have been raised the church of christ my entire life and still can’t explain to them why a woman can’t say a prayer in church. Sometimes, in the church of christ we confuse what’s scriptural with what’s traditional. Certainly, there are references in the bible to men leading worship, being the head of the family, etc., but there are other references where women do more than lead by example. Frankly, it’s a little disconcerting to tell my daughters they can be what they want to be -president, a doctor, a lawyer, a teacher, a police officer - but not a preacher? As someone who is trying to bring her children up with a belief that they are strong and can accomplish much, I can’t explain why no women leads singing, no women says a prayer, etc. I’ve read the scriptures over and over and just don’t see the justification for excluding women in the way we do from the worship service.
My daughter worked in the A&M admissions office while her hubby was getting his master’s there. She produced a lot of the propaganda that went out to prospective cult me… er, students. She found it all quite hilarious, how seriously people took stupid things. She sent me a news clip about the 4,000 people who showed up for the funeral of the retired mascot–a dog!
As for bluetooth: I made a comment about bluetooth users in a sermon recently. I said that I thought they were the first step toward becoming the Borg in Star Wars. Of course, I meant Star Trek, but I was roasted alive by the Trekkies anyway. I would have received less flak for naming Elvis as the fourth member of the Trinity.
Speaking of misspeaking: a couple of weeks later, I made reference in a sermon to Mel Brooks’ movie, The Passion of the Christ. Couldn’t figure out why people were snickering at a serious point in the sermon until my wife told me later what I had actually said.
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luogo grande:) nessun osservazioni!