Knowing now that a granddaughter is coming . . . and awaiting word on what her name will be, I’ve been curious about names.
I can’t even remember exactly how Diane and I settled on names for our three children. Somehow, Matthew just fit the first one, as did Megan the second and Christopher the third.
We didn’t go far outside the box, I guess. I noticed that the three most popular boys’ names in the 90’s were Michael, Christopher, and Matthew. That covers the three guys in our family. (Of course two of us weren’t born in the 90’s!)
I believe the most common girls’ name in my class at ACU the past couple years has been Brittany. Lots of Brittanys were born in the 90’s. It was the fourth most popular name. Last year it wasn’t even in the top hundred. (Could that have anything to do with a less polished image of a famous Brittany/Britney? Does stuff like that really effect babies’ names?)
Whatever her name is, she will be eagerly welcomed by two parents, four grandparents, eight great grandparents, two uncles, two aunts, and two older cousins.
- - - -
Wow! Big coverage of Farmer’s Branch today. Surely the arguments of the people pushing for anti-immigration legislation (including making English the official language of their town) aren’t what they’re being depicted as in the media. Especially in light of what scripture says about how to treat aliens (Lev. 19:10, 33-34; Jer. 7:5-7; Ez. 22:29; etc.). Too often such debates have pushed emotional buttons of racism and of “there’s not enough for all of us” and “they’re taking over our town.” (I’m not at all saying that’s what has happened in Farmer’s Branch. I’m guessing it has more to do with the process and the problems of ILLEGAL immigration. The folks I know in that city are avid Christ-followers who I’m sure have a concern both for the struggling alien and for the legal process.)
While some focus on keeping illegal aliens out, I love hearing of churches that are figuring ways to care for them and to draw them into community: providing basic needs, language assistance, teaching, and friendship.
I try to imagine what I’d do if I couldn’t even feed my family and I knew that there was a place I could go work so that food, clothes and shelter could be provided for my children.
- - - -
An example of how bad theology can impact international policy.
- - - -
An amazing report on wholeness in a city (in this instance, Dallas) is available here from the J. McDonald Williams Institute.
Popular culture absolutely has an impact on popular baby names. A fairly recent example was the skyrocketing popularity of the name Emma, which was Ross and Rachel’s baby’s name on “Friends.”
Have Matt & Jenna considered Paris or Hillary for the impending little one? Bet those are high on the list in 2006…
———–
How’s this for bad theology?
I guess that open border thing is what bothers me. Those who seek to harm us could just as easily come in. I do think we just take for granted that we are protected. Do you lock your doors before you go to bed at night? I’ve gotten yelled at my whole life because I don’t, just don’t think of it. My husband always does that. We know nothing is ever a sure thing, but we do try and do the best we can for our families. I’ve always remembered those coming through the lines in New York as they got off the ships. Coming to a new land to make a new life. They tried to blend in and be one of us and it worked. Now we are suppose to be alright with those that bypass the honorable lines to tell their names and say they want to be one of us. We are suppose to change everything so they don’t have to speak as one of us. Scrimp and save to be one us, but have the government give them a prize because they snuck in. A reward for bypassing the rules. It is like saying we love the sinner but not the sin. No one wants to harm the people, but they do want them to play by the rules America has installed for everyone. Line jumping is not a popular thing in this country.
Early Prediction: 100 comments on this post, Mike
Talkin’ ’bout acceptin’ dem ferners might get you put on the FBI watch list.
I’m on your side, though, Mike. As Christian “exiles” whose kingdom is not of this world, this immigration stuff is not our call to make.
I’m glad my parents didn’t name me Brittany or Britani or any number of other variations. There’s nothing so confusing as sharing a name with half the class.
Couldn’t stop myself from posting, this is too important. As Christians who cross paths with the needy, we must help them, but we must also follow the law. I believe that’s still biblical isn’t it?
In this world of modern day terrorism, “this immigration stuff” most certainly is “our call to make”. Our borders should be more secure and that doesn’t make anyone who defends the borders less Christian. It is called using the mind God gave us for the good of those around us.
Mike, how do you reconcile the desire to help the aleins among us with Romans 13?
How is caring about Israel bad theology? Psalm 122 and Romans 11 say otherwise.
You don’t have to be a premillenial dispensationalist to support Israel.
Aren’t we suppose to obey the law of the land? Shouldn’t we report illegals?
Living near the boarder I have had to report several that I have seen. The boarder patrol is busy.
This is going to get out of control in a hurry
Snapshot, and others, will tell you they just want people to come in through legal channels. The problem is, if anyone tried to loosen our immigration policies, they would go bananas. Why don’t we open up legal immigration, charge maybe 100 bucks a person to immigrate, check them for disease, and let them go. If it would help any, we could say they must get a job within 6 months of coming in or they loose their citizenship? I mean, I’m not even that smart, and I came up with that in 30 seconds.
The problem isn’t terrorism and it isn’t the “legality” of it. The problem is people don’t like groups that don’t look and sound like them coming into their country and competing with them for jobs. Illegal immigration is all smoke and mirrors. And its disgusting to hear some of the things that “christians” say about hispanic people, illegal or not.
ftwskies - are you serious? how is supporting israel when they are carpet bombing a nation that has a large minority of christians good? How is supporting anyone who is constantly warring Christian?
Later prediction……..MORE than 100 comments.
DU
Justin-
That is how you see it, but don’t presume your thoughts are my thoughts. I stated my thoughts and said so. My daughter-in-law is hispanic and did go through the proper channels and did obey the rules and is a citizen today.
Justin,
I think your comment that those who support enforcing the laws that have been in existence for many years are racist is telling.
Instead of debating the merits, impacts, or morality of no boarder control and ulnimited immigration, you just suggest that “people” (I presume you mean those who want our laws enforced) don’t like others who look and sound differently. Why didn’t you use the word “racist”?
I don’t think many Christians are against helping those in need. It’s just that some of us like to think more than 20 seconds ahead. Unlimitied immigration will ultimately destroy our economy. Is that OK with you? And, are you advocating allowing all immigrants from any nation to come with no controls or limits?
In some ways the economy is like a farm. You can choose to rape the land and take all of its bounty for a while, or you can build a sustainable ecosystem that will produce good crops for years. Immigration has been a key component of the economic and societal development of this nation and should continue as such. But unlimited, uncontrolled immigration is not sustainable.
Justin I fear you are being a little naive. Most anyone could pick your solution to the immagration issue to pieces in a hurry. You wouldn’t do a check for criminals? Wouldn’t you have a problem with letting in child molestors? How long would it take to do a medical check. How are you going to track them for 6 months to see if they actually get a job? Often the simple solutions aren’t quite as simple when you actually try and put them in practice. Your idealism is good but in the real world it doesn’t always work. Ya’ll have a nice day. Weldon
Justin
A country constantly warring? You mean a country constantly having to defend itself? Yeah, I support that. Absolutely. They didn’t start the Six Day war, or any other war that’s been dropped in their lap since 1948. And for all their unwillingness to embrace Christ, God still loves ‘em as His chosen folks — that’s irrevocable, just like Paul said.
“Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:
‘May those who love you be secure.
May there be peace within your walls
and security within your citadels.’
For the sake of my brothers and friends,
I will say, ‘Peace be within you.’
For the sake of the house of the LORD our God,
I will seek your prosperity.”
Pay heed the tree to which you have been grafted.
I have one minute, and that’s the last time I can check until late tomorrow night.
FtWskies - I’ll try to come back to that. You’ve asked a good question. Yes, I believe it’s bad theology, built largely upon poor understanding of biblical texts.
Others - I’m guessing that most people here have both: (1) a concern for the law (keeping in mind that it’s not our highest authority); and (2) a love for the poor, the homeless, and the alien. I don’t think everyone in this debate has both of those concerns (fear and racism drive much of the discussion); but I’m guessing about everyone who drops by here does.
So now what’s being discussed is this: How do we express Christian compassion in the face of such desperate needs and our country’s laws? What a great question for us to address — while assuming the best about each other.
The Civil Rights Movement required a fair bit of law breaking. Some laws are unjust. Our citizenship is…
russ,
i beg to differ. the united states actually has a very accomodating process for citizenship. having just relocated to the UK, i can vouche for the fact that trying get a visa, let alone becoming a citizen, is extremely difficult.
…anyone have any thoughts about what happened to the name Brittany?
…just asking…
I agree with Mike, immigrations is such a hot button topic. Living in Texas, specifically the metroplex, I have heard many debates and discussions about how it is horrible for our nation. Here is my take on it. I wish that Christians would not be so vehemently against it to the point of denying a place to live or a job so illegal immigrants can feed their families. It just feels wrong. My reason is this. We were all illegal aliens at one time; illegal aliens who were not allowed access to the kingdom of God because of our sins. But Jesus died and because of his death, we are now citizens of heaven. It feels weird to not approach the topic of illegal immigrations with a similar mind set. I usually hate it when people argue that Jesus died, so you should feel this way or that way. I am not saying if you phone in and report illegal immigrants, you are not a christian. I am saying that if we don’t approach our fellow man with compassion and love, we are not Christian. So, if you want to ban illegal immigrants from getting housing ect., then I do think that is wrong. I also think that when we talk about protecting our nation or protecting our economy, we are not acknowledging our citizenship to a bigger, better kingdom. Although I would not speak to the motives of the flower mound city counsel, or anyone but myself (that is God’s job), I hope that they were motivated by love.
There have been attempts by the populist bigots to ban churches from housing/feeding poor illegal immigrants. Its sickening.
Israel, for the most part, does defend itself. But many times they use overwhelming force to destroy infrastructure which causes death and destruction for many who are not involved in either side of the debate. Lebanon is a great example. From a Christian standpoint though, I would say that they shouldn’t spend their time weilding the sword, but more time beating the sword into a plowshare. From a secular point of view, sure, they are doing what any nation would do in their situation. But for Christians to support Israel over Palestine and to support one side of an ugly situation is borderline heretical. We are to love EVERYONE and believe that their lives are worth something. If we truely believe in the ressurection, we’ll stop worrying about our lives and start worrying about others because we have faith that we will be raised in the end.
If we make legal immigration easier, it will raise funds for our government as well as bring labor in to do jobs that americans won’t take because the work is hard and the pay is lower than what we’re used to. If you think capitalism works, and you want to help people, less stringent immigration rules is what our country needs.
There are no good arguments for making legal immigration easier.
Having relocated to this area of the country (New Jersey, basically suburban NYC), I have been surprised at the number of immigrants I come in contact with daily. I am the manager of the night crew where I work. There are a total of 12 people I have responsibility for. 3 are immigrants. While number-wise that is not a lot, the 25% is small when compared to the rest of the store. Around 40% or more do not claim the US as their country of origin. I am glad so many people from so many countries have found a home and places where they can work and support their families.
My problem is with those who are in this country illegally. Perhaps the solution is to completely open up our borders. Until that time, however, illegal immigration does create a number of problems. It is not just about the fact that “they” come into our country and take “our” jobs. It is about the fact that many people come into this country illegally and are willing to be exploited for their work. They are overworked, incredibly underpaid, live in terrible housing situations, and suffer from medical problems (probably due to overwork and poor living conditions) that they cannot afford to pay for. This does create a financial burden for those of us paying for our own health care and also paying for the unpaid health care costs administered to those who have no coverage.
Ultimately, allowing illegal immigrants to stay and continue coming into the country is NOT Christian; for we are allowing a large number of people to be exploited and not cared for properly. So as the church, what is our duty? To call for open borders? To create some sort of illegal alien underground railroad? Open medical centers and create jobs specifically for people who (according to government records) aren’t in the country to begin with?
Just random ramblings from someone who has never really wanted for anything (home, money, love, freedom) in my life.
BTW, popular culture does definitely affect naming of children. Just look at how “Jezebel” has never made a comeback.
Well, the illegal immigration issue is way to multifaceted (I think that’s how to spell that word…) to give a wave at right here and the issue of Israel…. well, let’s just write a discertation! Yikes! Hot button central! I think I’ll stick to the surface topic! I LOVE names! I loved choosing my kid’s names and I love hearing what other people choose and why they chose it. Can’t wait to hear about this little one!
From the comments it appears that most have the same opinion, care for the needy while adhereing to current law and lobbying for additional change to make things more safe for everyone. Seems most just word it a bit differently than others.
I believe the first step in safety for everyone- citizens, illegals, visitors and those who wish harm on us is to secure the borders. Even God himself is open to everyone, but requires some things of us. It appears that the open border is pretty secure around heaven.
FtWskies et al,
The tree to which we have been grafted is NOT a country that was founded in 1948. There is a difference between the modern political state of Israel and the people that have descended from Abraham. In fact, God promised Hagar that Ishmael, having been heard by God, would be made into a great nation. Does that mean we ought to use the American political system in a way that will strengthen Israel’s Arab neighbors (Ishmael’s descendents) to ensure that God’s promise to Hagar is fulfilled?
Israel continues to disregard international calls, the U.S., the UN, even the Red Cross, and many other organizations in their tactics against the Lebanese and Palestinians. Their rules of engagement do not treat noncombatants (women, children, religious and medical facilities) with proper caution. As Christians, we ought to be concerned with Israel’s lack of concern for social justice and the welfare of its neighbors and Arab population.
Moreover, let’s not kid ourselves that Israel is somehow a Jewish state. The majority of its citizens, although they may have a Jewish heritage, are not practicing Jews. Tel Aviv, the population center of the country, is a secular city like most eastern European cities.
Mr. Hagee’s theology is indeed a bad one. His push to rebuild the temple won’t bring about the return of the Messiah. I don’t think God needs our help to bring about that event. Rather, MR. Hagee’s wish would induce WWIII, since the Dome of the Rock would have to be demolished.
I’ll stop here…
Hey Mike,
I like both parts of your post!
On the former, I think we definitely do name our children based on people we like and admire, staying away from the names of those we don’t. You don’t meet too many Jezebels today. It’s also not often that I meet many Bertha’s who are under age 65. Since I was a kid, based on people I went to school with I determined my sons would never be named certain things. In Tennessee a few years ago, we had a slew of babies named “Peyton”.
On the latter, immigration is a subject close to my heart. My wife is from Mexico. We met at Harding, dated, and got married in ‘04. This continues to be a touchy subject for us. She has never worked, entered, or done anything illegally. We have been completely honest in all of our dealings, yet the immigration process is unbelievably difficult, even for us. I had to hire a lawyer just to figure it out, and we still had some kinks and issues. (We got featured on the Little Rock news a few months ago, which was cool) Though I don’t approve of a person entering illegally, I’m very sympathetic to the plight of these immigrants. I’ve gotten to know several of the ones here in Searcy. I know they’re illegal, and they’ve told us some really heart breaking stories about what they go through just to get here and what they leave behind. It’s pretty unthinkable.
I would ask for everyone’s prayers for my congregation in Rose Bud, Arkansas. Next month, we are about to begin an outreach to the numerous Latino community around us and try to plant an Iglesia de Cristo if all goes well over the coming months. We are very nervous about how to move forward, but we’re convinced it is God’s will for us to try. God has already answered a lot of our prayers about how we plan to work around the language barrier, but we’ve got a lot of work ahead of us still. Thanks for a good post, and please be praying for us.
I like the name Claudia…
There is an apartment building on my street that houses some hispanic families and I don’t know if they are here legally or not. One day, I saw one of the mother’s pushing a stroller down our street, shaded with glorious trees and I was glad that at least for a time, she was able to live a peaceful life with her children.
I’ll comment on the names. My oldest daughter is named Megan, her name would have been Mathew if she was a boy. Our second daughter is Macey. She would have been Kyle, go figure. Here in east Texas, there are a lot of Dakotas and Cheyennes. I think there is now a trend to have a fairly common name and just spell it weird. In the metroplex, there are a lot of little girls names Isabella. I like the name, but, when your names are Bob and Cindy, and you name your kid Isabella, it just sounds like you trying to hard. There are a lot of Brittany’s, Jessica’s, Jennifer’s, and Megan’s currently in high school. All the Ashley’s have moved on to college, and all the Kaitlyn’s are in Jr. High.
And, Tho, Susan never had any issues with other girls named Megan over the past decade - other than the 6 other Megans on her softball team one year. Made for some interesting cheering from the bleachers.
I always loved the Steve Martin bit about a name that was appropriate at 1, but, not at 30. “Well, let’s take a look at your resume Puddin’ Head”.
I always find myself quite affectionate toward the names of my kids’ friends. My boys in particular have some wonderful little friends at their public school who have stolen our hearts. They have names like Carlos, Luis, Cesar, Pedro, Jodwan, Jose and Ernesto. Sweet, sweet boys.
matts tying things together for us here
Naming my two girls was really a simple process. With the first one her father wouldn’t entertain the idea of having a girl and insisted on the name Gregory for the boy he demanded. I, on the other hand, had not one doubt she was a girl and planned to name her after her paternal grandmother’s maiden name, Sherrill [now Sherri], with middle name Diane simply because I liked the sound of it with Sherrill. [btw-when her father remarried - their first child was a boy and yep, he named him Gregory. I've been around some strange people in my life. LOL]
My second girl’s name followed the pattern of a family tradition - she’s named for her great grandmother - Nancy Kathryn.
I liked the idea of bringing previous generations together with the present one through family namesakes. But like I said, I’ve been around some strange people in my life, starting with me.
Justin, et al — there’s an important distinction between supporting something and understanding why something happens. I hate that innocents are inadvertently caught up in conflicts like what we saw in Lebanon this year; we all do. But I also understand how it happens. And when an enemy provokes you and makes it necessary for you to take action to defend your people, and in the process someone innocent inadvertently gets hurt, the blame rests with the enemy that provoked, not on the one who did their duty by responding. If my car gets wrecked by a police cruiser who’s pursuing a criminal, I blame the criminal who made the pursuit necessary, not the cop who was doing his job.
I understand that one is a Jew if one is a Jew inwardly, in the heart. Nevertheless, those who are ethnically decended from Abraham — even the branches “broken off”, as it were — inherit the promise to Abraham; it’s irrevocable. And they are loved in a special way by God on account of the fathers, regardless of whether they keep Torah or acknowledge God at all. Thanks be to our God, who is faithful even when we are faithless! And part of the promise they inherit as “ethnic Jews” is God’s promise of the land of Canaan. And so in that sense, 1948 wasn’t the beginning of anything, but merely the rest of the world getting on board and recognizing what had been true all along. If God says that land is theirs, who’s any one of us to draw the map otherwise? For 2,000 years they lived scattered from that land, but that never made it any less “theirs”, any more than their absence during the exile did. Because it isn’t just theirs by fact of them living there and controlling it; it’s theirs by promise (Ex 13:11, Neh 9:7-8).
And God keeps His promises.
Eschatologically speaking, NOTHING rides on the state of Israel.
Matthew 3:9
“And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.”
God doesn’t need Israel OR America.
But He sure can use them Richard.
Snapshot,
No doubt about it. I just think a little eschatological humility is a virtue.
“And they are loved in a special way by God on account of the fathers, regardless of whether they keep Torah or acknowledge God at all.”
sign me up for the jewish/atheist train to glory then.
Richard, I would disagree conditionally. God did make promises to national, physical Israel that have not yet been realized. They at some point will be realized, or God is not God. For almost 2,000 years, it appeared that national Israel was out of the picture, then they were reborn in what I see as a fulfillment of Ezekiel’s dry bones vision. I think to say that NOTHING (all caps–anger?) rides on the state of Israel is to indicate that you have all the answers. (Eschatological humility is a virtue, remember).
I don’t say I have all the answers, but no one does, IMO. I believe that Occam’s Razor is in play, and the scriptures to which FtWskies is referring would be the most simply explained in exactly the way he interprets them, IN MY OPINION, again.
That said, I do agree that it does not depend on Israel (what I think you said), but on God’s word to them. He even says that he will fulfill his promises to them even though they are disobedient, and to show his own faithfulness, not because of theirs.
As far as our forming foreign policy based on scripture, I don’t know whether that is a good idea or not. IF I AM RIGHT (huge qualifier to this statement), Israel will survive until the final battle no matter what we do or don’t do. I am not concerned for Israel’s survival, as I believe it is foretold that they will go through tremendous difficulties in the near future, but will be delivered. So from that standpoint, it does not depend on America nor on Israel to do anything for the promises to be realized.
Above all, our job is to be Jesus to our neighbors, and to Israel, and to Palestine and Syria and Lebanon and……. I find that is hard enough to do on a personal level, much less trying to get national adherence to what anyone’s view of that is.
Richard,
You are one of my favorite people!
Don,
The caps were emphasis. My comment was hyperbolic to make a theological observation. I’m not angry. I don’t have a lot of horses in this race.
However, reading you comment I was unclear about this phrase:
“Israel will survive until the final battle.”
I’m unsure what this means and how this fits in, I’m guessing, to God’s “promises to Israel.” Could you elaborate?
Richard, sorry to have misinterpreted the caps. I have stated before on this website and elsewhere that I believe the pre-millenial viewpoint to be quite plausible, and I have found some of our “tribe” to actually get angry when talking with others who disagree with any viewpoint on this issue (two local preachers here that I can think of offhand), so I thought that was occurring, as well.
It does not anger me that others think differently about this, and I only report what I believe, but don’t think less of anyone for believing what has been “our” historical postion on this, which falls somewhere between a-millenial and a-millenial. Then, there’s the a-millenial position, if you want to take that.
My statement is based on my belief that the world situation is, indeed, shaping up pretty much the way the pre-milennial folks have been telling us for the last 50 or so years that it would, and that may be an indicator that they are on to something. The end-times scenario envisions Christ returning at the last minute to save Israel from the armies who have gathered against it, and is supported by scriptures which I have seen, but can’t quote offhand, and would have to look up to go further into this. Right now, my two kids are in the room needing me to take them to different functions, and I simply don’t have the time, nor do I think Mike really wants me to take up the space on this, so will just say there is plenty of material (don’t count the Left Behind stuff–that’s not serious discussion of this, and I haven’t even read any of that) available a click away for anyone wanting to look further into this.
Thanks for the response, and again, my main point is that our responsibility is to Jesus’s instructions to us on how to treat our neighbor. This other stuff will unfold as it does, no matter what I think.
I’ve gone to the immigration center with my daughter-in-law and sat almost all day till our number was called. Made about 6 trips like this and always needed another form or something, but being my son was in the Army and that also is an inconveniece not a problem if you are young newlyweds. The time my father and son spent defending this country, like all our soldiers and their families. But where would our country be but for their service. Sometimes we are inconvenienced, but patience really is a virtue. I think that is what many of us don’t understand, why don’t people go through channels and apply to get in the country. Yes, it may be hard, but if their country is giving them a hard time with it, change the rules of their country first.
Are we defending our borders because we pride ourselves at having a strong economy and good people on our land. If so, we’re lying to ourselves. It’s all smoke & mirrors. We’re not a great, grand nation with the best economy in the world. We lie to people daily telling them one day we’ll repay the billions of dolars that we put out on false IOU’s.
If the US Government doesn’t have to follow the law, why should we ask people crossing our borders illegally to go through the bureaucratic process, when the people leading this nation don’t have to. If the people running our government don’t obey the laws, the people who aren’t apart of our country don’t have to obey the laws.
I know we’ve all heard it hundreds of times, but remember- you’re only here because someone long ago left their nation (quite possibly illegally) and came here, slaughtered the people here, took everything that was worth anything and claimed it as theres, and killed most of the animal life. Sounds like we were really doing things in a Godly, legal fashion.
I’m with Justin- I think we need to find a solution to the problem. People want to be here, we want to be here, we shouldn’t be a closed nation. If we want to think we’re elitist because of our great language, our good economy, our strong families, our great morals… We’re lying to ourselves every time we wake up! Don’t lie to yourselves.
Fight for people’s freedom, not just yours. Maybe it means sacrificing a little so that someone else can enjoy a life that is in a place where they can work hard (with people from Farmer’s Branch paying them less than minimum wage and not wanting them to live in their city), put food on their families table, take care of their families, love their families, provide for their families.
Mabe we need to let people flood in, because the Mexicans could teach US a little something about families. Maybe it isn’t they need to learn everything this “great” nation has to offer, maybe we need to step back and say.. China & India & Iraq & Mexico & Cambodia have something to teach us.
May God’s people open up their homes and land with hearts full of hospitable compassion, love, a desire to create peace and hearts willing to know that God’s sending people who are open to His word.
Don,
Thanks for answering. And I appreciate you transparency. I myself, although a lifelong C of C member, haven’t thought much all this. I’m more curious than anything. So, one more question, if you don’t mind:
Is there an antichrist in this scenario and how does he/she/it fit in?
I can’t resist following up Matt’s comment with the sweet names of some of our precious friends: Morelia, Rafaela, Rosa, and Quinita to name a few.
Morelia reminds me so much of my daughter Rachel, and they have developed a bond through our tutoring program at church. Rachel is the tutorer, but I think she is getting the bigger blessing each week by the friendship that is blossoming.
There are so many challenges these Hispanic families face. I can’t imagine what life must be like for them. They come here without jobs and are migrant workers living in bare minimum duplexes. The parents do not know English. And this life they have chosen is a big improvement over their homeland. We are so blessed and can be so blind to our abundance. I admit my lack of knowledge on immigration laws, but it sure seems like we have plenty to share over here.
The Southwest Central community is about to burst its buttons we’re so excited about your granddaughter. We’re spiffing up the nursery - one baby due any day, the Cope sweetheart in March and Josh and Kayci Ross’ arrival in May. The line is forming to work in the nursery!
Yaa Hoo!
Justin,
That cop in the police cruiser does get a good portion of the blame if he goes about his pursuit carelessly, wrecklessly, and without discretion.
Hagee’s dispensationist dual theology is at best a poor interpretation of scripture. At worst he leads people into a an undiscriminating financial support and acceptance of a nation who seems to be unconcerned with social justice, a principle that Jesus championed. My understanding of scripture leads me to think that God is concerned with our behavior towards each other here and now. For His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven, we need to be concerned for each others welfare. Christians ought not blindly support countries that don’t concern themselves with such things.
I don’t think we ought to be pro-Israel or pro-Arab. I think we ought to be pro-God and be about the business of promoting the values that God cherishes.
Sorry Justin - didn’t mean to direct that comment at you.
Mike…I read your blog after dinner tonight…at a dinner where I waxed on and on about the futility and out right racism of the Farmers Branch ordinance. Let me share a quote from one of the folks quoted in the Fort Worth Star Telegram…Robin Bernier ( a Farmer’s Branch citizen) said, “They end up with five or 10 people in a house and five or six cars outside.”
It’s just not right. We don’t want them renting to illegals.”
Whoa…that really sounds like someone is more worried about property values than human rights. Let’s fix this problem from the top down, not from the bottom up…especially when it effects children…which this ordinance will.
What I really wonder about is if any of the FB folks were checking immigration documents when their McMansions were being built at an incredibly good price…hmmm-likely not.
I’ll plead ignorance about a lot of this discussion, but here are a few things I’ve been thinking..
1. Unless you’re a Native American; someone in your family immigrated to this country. People immigrate. They always have, especially when their is such a huge disparity in socioeconomic levels.
2. As far as using up our country’s resources… It seems to me that our wealthy country has more to share than anyone else. And we’re not even having babies at a fast enough rate to maintain our population.
3. I don’t think it is realistic to believe that we could ever possibly have “secure borders.” I don’t think there is any amount of military presence or government policy or long fence that can keep people who intend harm to our country out.
4. I don’t think anyone who has actually been through the process of “legal immigration” would say it was easy… maybe the occasional Canadian.
5. We need to be careful not to prioritize our personal safety and security over the principles that Jesus taught about loving our neighbors (and our enemies).
6. I’m a law-abiding citizen, but If it comes down to taking care of the poor and oppressed and following our government’s laws, I choose the poor and oppressed, and I think Jesus would too.
7. It’s easy to assign people to their “proper places” when we are always thinking about them as “they” and “we.” It’s a little harder when you get to know the “they’s” stories, and find out that “they” crossed the border illegally, so that their 8 y/o daughter could get the only treatment that could save her life.
Israel is like the spoiled brat that gets a slight shove and then throws a tantrum for several hours. Seriously, they overreacted with Lebanon. What bothers me is that we turn a blind eye to everything they do in the region, but we slam everyone else. I think we have some closet-Zionism going on. If Israel (the nation) really is that important, look at the Old Testament. God was constantly having to put the nation in its place and punish it. Who’s to say that’s no different from today.
So yes, we have a responsibility to hold Israel accountable for their actions. Being the chosen people of God doesn’t give us a blank check to do whatever we want.
I think securing are boarders is very important. “Something there is that doesn’t love a wall.”
History’s full of lasting and effective walls: Berlin, Jericho, China, Hadrian’s — well, at least for awhile.
Speaking of Israel and how premillenialism impacts foreign policy, has anyone read Sam Harris’ Letter to a Christian Nation? One of his (and others’) main arguments involves how the religious faith of evangelicals impacts US relations to Israel. I know his vindictive attacks on faith aren’t pleasant reading for Christians, but it might be a good intellectual/spiritual exercise. I’m actually attending a home study on Wednesday nights where we’re reading through Harris’ book and discussing his views, and it’s been rather interesting. Sometimes those you disagree with the most can be the most enlightening to read.
Isreal a “spoiled brat!” A history lesson might be in order. The Germans were not the first people who tried to wipe the Jews from the face of the Earth, nor were they the last. People have been trying to do that for many years. Remember, the Germans did not come up with the requirement of the Star of David having to be worn by Jews so that they could be more easily identified, and therefore persecuted. The English did! (Interestingly enough, the English also came up with the idea of the concentration camp). Hard for me to criticize a group of people who have had to fight for their existence for such a long period of time, to now be surrounded by people who want to destroy them, after having just recently gone through the nightmare of the Holocaust when the majority of the world, that’s right even the “Christian” world did not lift a finger to prevent it. After that type of history, including the indifference of the christian world, I might overreact also. Does that make it right or ok? No. Does that make it the reality that they deal with, supported by history? Yes. Spoiled brats indeed! My, how the world has pampered them so!
The immigration debate can become very simple if you keep one fact in mind. The immigration we see in this country is caused by the fact that there is no comparable support system in the countries these people are leaving. We are the welfare system and the medicare system for Mexico and Central America. Until something is done to correct the problems in those countries, we will continue to have to deal with this situation. That is exactly why Mexico does not want us to close our borders. They do not want to take care of the problems. They want us to deal with them. You want to remedy this problem, make those countries take care of the problems instead of relying upon us to do it. Better yet, go down there and fix the problems of poverty and inadequate health care and unemployment. If you do not want to do that, then accept the reality that the U.S. is going to have to subsidize these countries.
charlie s.,
I never said Israel IS a spoiled brat — It was analogy to explain the overreaction. The U.S. needs to stop saying, “your actions don’t bother us… We understand you’ve been oppressed.”
You may be on to something there with the borders. If we stopped wasting money on walls and border protection, and started using it to spur development in nearby countries who have been ravaged by our economic policies, then people might have less reason to come here. (I don’t mind “them” being here, though.) The pen IS mightier than the sword, after all.
Israel - It’s basically the “teach a man to fish” principle. I’m down with that. It’d be nice, though, if America would take more interest in developing countries for reasons NOT connected to our own interests (but because we both have and expend more resources — natural and otherwise — than any other nation on earth, plus it’s the right thing to do).
What I’ve observed in the immigration debate is this: few people are willing to ask the “why” questions. As in, “why are they coming over our borders.” Is it to terrorize us? No. Is it to take jobs and benefits away from “hard-working Americans”? Of course not. They come because they want a better life for themselves and their families, and America obviously offers them something they cannot get in their own countries.
This is where Israel & Charlie’s suggestion of spending more money developing these nations (teaching people to fish) is a good start.
Isreal,
I do not mind “them” being here at all either, and I resent the implication. It is misplaced, especially considering my family and the ethnic roots of same.
What I do resent even more is the comment that it is our economic policies that have ravaged these countries. There is plenty of corruption in these countries that has nothing to do with the U.S. A trip to Mexico easily proves this. That is a country with abundant natural resources that could easily support its population, yet will not.
I am not advocating one position or the other. I am merely pointing out that the reality is either these countries fix their economic problems for the benefit of their citizens, or we will be left to do it. This country needs to plan accordingly. (of course, we will not, since it would take a political course of action that would not be popular in this country)
After having gone back and re-read my prior post, it is obvious that the “them” I refered to was the problems of the countries, not people of those countries. Do not be so quick to try to mischaracterize or miscast what I said.
Mike, when the legal process devours the struggling alien, the person of faith will gravitate toward the struggling alien, at least that is how I see it. As for serious Christ followers. . .all I know is some of the attitudes at work today in Farmers Branch likely make the Lord we say we seek sick to his stomach.
kelly~
You didn’t catch my meaning. “Our citizenship…” was a quote from sacred writ. When it comes to law breaking I am most concerned with God’s will, not our governments’.
There is a difference between “alien” and “illegal alien.” I think that’s the whole point.
Mike wrote: “I try to imagine what I’d do if I couldn’t even feed my family and I knew that there was a place I could go work so that food, clothes and shelter could be provided for my children.”
Mike’s sentiments are real, and I should know — I am a middle-school ESL teacher in the Houston area, and have spent a lot of time with immigrant children (and their parents). In the couse of my job, I have had many opportunities to hear for myself the stories of what life has been like for these familes, some of whom are here illegally. Feeding and clothing their children is an issue for them, but safety can be pretty high on the list, as well.
The following is a true — and not untypical — story about a family I knew from Colombia:
Daniel (who was 11 when I taught him a few years ago) was from a well-educated family who lived in an upper middle-class neighborhood in Colombia, where the homes looked a lot like my “nice” middle-class home (I saw pictures). His father had an important, well-paying white-collar position with a corporation in Colombia.
Daniel’s parents personally knew many families whose young sons had been taken by the rebel military, and they also knew that Daniel, at ten, could very possibly be taken soon, as well. It was not unreasonable to think that they would never see their boy again, if that were to happen. An additional concern was the shootings in their “nice” neighborhood, which were becoming the norm; as a matter of fact, Daniel saw a man shot and killed right in front of their house.
Daniel’s parents felt that they needed to get out of Colombia, and soon, and although I do not know for sure if the family immigrated here illegally (the schools don’t ask, and that’s fine by me!), I had my suspicions. I do know that they gave up everything they had and left all that was familiar to bring their family to the U.S. Daniel’s dad, whose lack of English was not a problem in Colombia, ended up washing rental cars for Enterprise, because jobs like the one he held in Colombia require one to speak English here in the U.S.
Daniel’s grandfather, back in Colombia, was shot near his own “nice” home a couple of years after the family came here — and the family was unable to return to help care for him during the weeks that he suffered before he died, nor were they able to return for the funeral. Daniel was fearful throughout his grandfather’s illness, and was inconsolable when he died.
I’m guessing that Daniel’s parents would do it all over again to keep their kids safe, and I’d be willing to bet that most of us would do the same for our kids, too, if legal channels failed us. If you’re not sure about that, go in and watch your children sleeping in their nice, warm, safe beds — what would you do to keep them safe from people who might come in this very night and take them away?
I’m in awe of the courage it takes for many of the parents of the kids I teach to come here, then go to work at demeaning jobs — sometimes two or three jobs — to take care of their families.
Jason, I’m sure you’re right — there is a difference between “alien” and “illegal alien”. I sure can’t tell what it is by looking at the kids in my classroom, and I’m betting you couldn’t, either.
Wow.
Ruthie, I live in Farmers Branch and I should know as well. I humbly respect your story and your experiences. But there is a story HERE too. My compassion for people and my wrestling with this issue is why I was running for Farmers Branch City Council in May 2007 and now why I am not. I’m not comfortable running on this platform and the voters in FB will vote in a Councilman in unwavering favor of the ordinances.
Micah 6:8 calls us “…to act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Mike may more clearly address “justice” because it can be defined as moral principle just as well as lawfulness. Or should our moral principle lead us to lawfulness?
The city government of FB is taking a stand. Not a stand against a certain people, but a stand for the law. The beneficiaries of this stand are the taxpayers of our city and state. The result of the lack of a stand are the US citizen children who suffer at the hands of our public school systems inability to meet the demands of such a diverse student base. The absence of tax dollar revenue from those here illegally hurts everyone, including ALL the children we seek to serve.
So you’ll only stand for the alien if it doesn’t hurt your tax base? If it doesn’t affect you? If it’s consistent with the law? What if it is the very laws and governmental structures that create an unlivable situation for the alien?
A solution to the tax revenue problem would be to push for the legalization of these immigrants so that they can pay all the taxes, not trying to keep them out. (Notably, many illegal immigrants pay into Social Security using false numbers, and other types of taxes, but do not necessarily receive the same benefits as citizens, so your blanket assertion that keeping illegal immigrant out is better for the economy is unsupported.)
Are there not many situations where acting for justice and mercy-acting on behalf of aliens- may require us to break specific laws that are themselves unjust? How about participating in the civil rights movement when it involved deliberately disobeying unjust laws? Or helping slaves on the underground railroad?
FB isn’t requiring illegal aliens to leave, they are requiring them to get legal…or leave. Is that an UNJUST law? I think not. And if you don’t think economic factors are a variable in this, then you are a bit unrealistic. It’s very realistic for those of us who own homes in FB and send our children to public schools.
Jason- Semantics. Is there really a realistic way for them to become legal all of a sudden? Or is your law more or less forcing people (and their children) to leave your school district because they have no other option? I’m afraid your concept of justice (which seems to pertain wholly to following and enforcing the law) and mine (which is concerned with equality, social justice, and a preferential option for the poor) are likely too far apart to be reconciled in a simple conversation..
I’m certain that economic factors are a variable in this- I’m merely saying that the economic effect of illegal immigration has positive economic effects as well as negative ones.
As for taxes, I’m not familiar with FB’s particular local tax base, but I would guess illegal immigrants pay sales taxes, and that those who rent properties indirectly contribute to the property taxes their landlords pay. Is that correct?
And if it’s really about the tax base for your school, why stop with illegals? If your schools should only be giving education to the children of those who contribute monetarily, why don’t you get mad about legal children whose parents are poor or don’t own property, and therefore don’t contribute more tax money to your schools? Why are they benefitting from your tax base…
The purpose of our public schools has been and should be to provide an education for all in order to equalize opportunity and integrate people into society as citizens, not merely to benefit those who are capable of contributing to the tax base.
Jason, the wording in your post sounds as if you yourself are conflicted as to how illegal aliens should be treated. On the one hand, you defend your home-town government’s stance, but admit you couldn’t wholeheartedly stand behind it, which is why you chose not to run for office.
In other words, it seems to me that you couldn’t look into Daniel’s eyes and explain to him why he can’t stay here. You wouldn’t want to be the one to drive him and his younger brother to the airport and put them on the plane back to Colombia, but you hope that someone else will do that distasteful job for you.
I admit the issue of illegal immigration is a huge one that affects many areas of American life, from economics, to education, to national security. I am the first to admit I do not know how to solve all the resulting far-reaching problems. I must honestly admit, as well, that illegal immigrants make a huge, unmeasurable contribution to the American economy — especially in Texas where conservative estimates put them at 1 in 6 of the total number of our workforce. I must also honestly acknowledge that they hold many of the jobs that most of us don’t want.
All in all, though, knowing there are so many things I can’t “fix”, I think I am much more comfortable imagining myself standing in the presence of Jesus, knowing that I loved and tried to educate the Daniels in our midst, than if I tried to chase them back to the place they came from.
I like this but I think the name Brittany is coming back. In everyone of my classes there is more than one Brittany I wish every day I couls change my name well bye.
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