Yesterday someone, in the comments section, asked a good question about divorce.
There are few “issues” more vexing to church leaders than this one. We’re wanting more than anything to be faithful to Christ. And we’re working with hurting, broken people.
There are two things that cause so much pain:
1. Marriages so broken that they wind up in divorce; and
2. Marriages equally broken where forgiveness, service, compassion, and love (basic Christian tools of ministry) seem absent.
Here are some practical things:
First, let us continue to place marriage within the realm of Christian discipleship. That’s what Mark’s gospel does. Right in the middle of teachings about what it means to follow him, we’re told that what God has yoked together people aren’t to pull apart. If there is anyplace where we need to practice the tools mentioned above, it’s here.
Second, let us be honest with our children and young adults about marriage. Let’s continue to remind them that marriage is not a state of ecstasy. It is a place where we commit ourselves despite the disappointments that may come. It is “for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health.”
Third, let’s continue to encourage all the communication and discussion we can before the wedding date — through premarital counseling (which our church requires for any ceremony performed by one of the ministers or elders) and through mentoring with older couples.
Fourth, let’s do our best to get people into small groups where they are safe to share their struggles. We need others in our lives who are for us, who can listen to us, pray with us, comfort us, and encourage us.
The teachings on divorce are difficult. You can sense the early church wrestling with the words of Jesus as they dealt with real, live people. (Let me recommend again the section on divorce in Richard Hays’ s The Moral Vision of the New Testament: Community, Cross, New Creation, A Contemporary Introduction to New Testament Ethics
It seems to me that the church is too easy on divorce and too hard on divorced people.
That’s the gist of these words from Hays:
“The collapse of cultural strictures against divorce has left the church in serious need of fresh theological and pastoral reflection about divorce and remarriage. The pain and complications of divorce cast their shadows across almost every congregation, yet the church often fails to address the issue forthrightly. In some churches divorce remains a taboo, and divorced persons are ostracized. In other churches, however, divorce is treated almost casually, and members are not in any serious way held accountable to their marriage vows.”
He adds this:
“In some cases, the church’s practice of accepting divorce has become so lax that the New Testament witness must be read primarily as a word of judgment on and correction for the church. In other cases, the church’s rigid legalism in applying the New Testament teaching must be challenged by the New Testament’s own modeling of flexibility in adapting Jesus’ word to new situations.”
We must continue to encourage people to keep their marriage vows.
Of course, there are lots of ways that marriage vows can be broken. When we fail to love, to support, to cherish, and to serve — in what sense have vows been kept?
So while divorce is a tragedy, so are damaging marriages. The church has little time for the selfish ways in which some swap partners because they’re more sexually attracted or because they “just weren’t happy.” But the church also knows that there are times when people come broken and hurting.
It isn’t our job to step on the hurting. It wasn’t the way of Christ. Divorced believers share in the fellowship of Christ the way all of us do: by his incredible mercy. They aren’t second class citizens. They aren’t “balcony Christians.”
So the church continues to nurture marriage and it continues to call for endurance of marriages as a part of discipleship. But it also recognizes that in this fallen world, there are marriage failures. That isn’t the unforgivable sin.
In an earlier blog, I made these brief suggestions about ways we might encourage our marital relationships:
1. By faithfully holding marriage in the realm of discipleship (i.e., we keep our vows as a part of living out the deep inner goodness that comes from following the Way of Christ — Mt. 5:31-32);
2. By refusing to make marriage a place where all needs are supposed to be met (which is idolatrous and forces it to bear a load it can’t);
3. By learning to be more open with one another — confessing, sharing, and praying — so that we aren’t afraid to say “we need some help”;
4. By fostering a greater sense of “first family” where the church — married, divorced, single, children — is seen as our primarily relationship;
5. By reminding each other that we relate to each other in marriage as brother and sister in Christ as well as husband and wife;
6. By offering whatever resources are available for prevention and intervention: wise elders, insightful therapists, caring friends and guides;
7. By encouraging each other openly to resist materialism and out-of-control debt;
8. By opening ways for conflict and conflict resolution that involve true listening, affirming, exploring, and forgiving;
9. By helping people to pursue a path of spiritual formation, expecting people to change through time into the image of Christ; and
10. By keeping alive and open the stories of older believers who can share their journey, thereby offering hope and guidance for troubled times.
My husband of almost 10 years had been having an affair for almost a year before I found out. I was hurt, humiliated, and ashamed. I begged him to stay but that wouldn’t have been a marriage that God would’ve been pleased with either.
My church family was very good to support me but I still see that look in some of the eyes… they think I’m not quite good enough anymore.
I hope that I’m just imagining that but perception is reality.
Great thoughts. I have noticed that whenever we think a divorce is so obviously one sided, we just don’t have a clue. Years later it could be something as one person was always trying to get help and the other thought they didn’t need it. It made the marriage so lopsided, that the weaker could never get stronger. And the stronger was also very selfish. A formula for disaster.
Mike,
Great thoughts. One other area where I believe the church falls short is recognizing that premarital counseling is not the only form of counseling. I’ve married my fair share of couples, and I require not only premarital counseling but “post honeymoon” counseling. As a licensed psychologist, I’d rather do preventative work than emergency room work.
I like the last point you made:
“10. By keeping alive and open the stories of older believers who can share their journey, thereby offering hope and guidance for troubled times.”
We need people that have been through the struggle and have survived to rise up and share their stories. We need them to become spiritual & marital mentors by making themselves available to join other people on this sacred journey.
This could be a separate discussion because you’re specifically talking about marriage, but singles are almost worst than second class citizens at some churches - instead they’re often pitied, as if they haven’t been able to find anyone.
The way of Christ was bachelorhood, yet in 37 years, I’ve never heard anyone suggest - from the pulpit or blog - that remaining single was at least an equally legitimate choice, much less a superior one.
Thanks for this, Mike. It hits home.
It’s also good to realize that the pain of divorce seldom completely goes away.
My own divorce was almost 15 years ago. But now that I am getting to an age where I am beginning to consider the possibility of serving as an elder one day soon, I am realizing that if God calls me to that, it may not be at the church I have been a part of my whole life. The lingering mistranslation of “husband of one wife” has hit me squarely between the eyes, even though I consider my family to be fairly enlightened.
Just one more way divorce continues to hurt, and we continue to hurt the divorced.
“It seems to me that the church is too easy on divorce and too hard on divorced people.”
Exactly. The whole post is good but the above sentence is the conviction the church needs to “fix” this issue.
We need to be marriage evangelists AND we need to love and care for those left in the wake of divorce (each spouse, kids…).
That last line was a bit of hyperbole. Mike, I’ve heard you defend being single. And after 15 years with me, I’m pretty sure my wife would strongly recommend it.
God created man and woman to desire relationship with one another so that we would better understand His desire for relationship with us. He created marriage as a living metaphor for His relationship with His people. Throughout the OT, Israel is the bride of Yahweh; in the NT, the church is the bride of Christ. What if modern ideas about marriage began to effect how the church sees it’s relationship with Christ? What if modern ideas about the church’s relationship with Christ began to effect how the church sees marriage?
For the record, I am glad that so many churches require premarital counseling, but I look back on our own experience with ambivalence. In our church, if you dared tell someone that you and your boyfriend were experiencing conflict, the standard answer to the problem was, “you need to break up”. My husband and I learned to be very private about what was happening in our dating relationship because we had no intention of breaking up. This continued through our engagement and our premarital counseling and it’s a big shame. If we had been able to honestly share our conflicts and have older Christians show us how to work through them in a healthy way, we would have saved ourselves an enormous amount of heartache during the first several years of our marriage.
This is a great post that I believe will generate some useful discussion. In my early days as a minister all of the discussion seemed to center on the technical discussion of the meaning of certain verses, but the effect of divorce on the lives of people was seldom considered. I have come to realize that we must do more to help each other have great marriages. You mentioned older people sharing their own stories. That made me recall a fantastic ministry started by Dr. Ed Gray at Harding Graduate School. His web site is http://www.12conversations.com He has put together one of the best mentoring programs that I have ever seen. I hope that your readers will check it out. I think it is something that every church could use. We need to use the people in our churches who have great marriages to help younger couples to know how to have a great marriage themselves. I look forward to hearing what others have to say.
Mike,
Great post.
I totally agree with you.
One of the best retreats I ever attended was a Couple’s Retreat that Terry and Charlotte Smith led. The two of them just laid their relationship out there for the group to see - warts and all - because they understood the power of the testimony of their perseverance and God’s grace.
The importance of the story and the transparency of couples who have been there/done that and ultimately flourished should not be minimized.
Terri~
I am so sorry about your husband. The stigma is certainly not on you. You can’t help that he chose to have an affair. The problem in the church would be accepting him if he re-married. Am I not right here? Can he re-marry and be accepted? I take that as knowingly living in sin day after day. Yes, we sin everyday. I agree. But……..what if I stole money everyday and asked for forgiveness every night but continued day after day to steal money until I died? This is what the church refuses to comment on. Mike, you had an awesome post, but I still don’t get an answer for those who cheat, re-marry and continue fellowship with a church. Are they not living in sin? Please someone answer. This has directly affected my family and torn apart so many. Thanks for this open discussion.
I have two sons getting married within a month of each other next summer, so this really hit home. This will be required reading for both young men. Thanks for sharing.
DU
I agree with Richard. There is such a wealth of wisdom floating in limbo, largely neglected and under-utilized, in the older members of our churches. How did they make their marriages last, or if they are single, how did celibacy work for their spiritual good? How did they resolve conflict? How did they serve their spouses? How were they served? What allowed God to work in those marriages? What hindered his working?
Our society has become so obsessed with youth that we have made “older” an almost degrading term, when it should be complimentary. Older couples who have experienced a lot of living should be a source for learning. If we, as older church members, could be more open with our own struggles, and we could learn to LISTEN to the struggles of others, how many marriages could be turned away from divorce and toward healthy life? (I know this requires relationships, etc., etc.)
I’m thankful that my parents had a marriage of both love and commitment. They were certainly not perfect and their marriage was not perfect, but they loved each other, and either worked out their differences or resolved them in their own minds. Divorce was never, NEVER an option in their minds, so they just HAD to work it out. They were a model of marriage to me and, of course, I didn’t realize it as a kid. I don’t claim all marriages can be like that, but I wonder how many marriages could be saved with that attitude.
I also wonder why we don’t seek out those golden anniversary couples to teach our High School and Middle School students what marriage is “about”.
Good words, Mike. I lift up Olan Hicks as a hero in this area in calling a lot of people out on what Scripture has to say about divorce and remarriage, challenging the old view that frustrated so many people. He took a lot of heat but really has had an impact for a better understanding of the Word in this area. He got me started on a different path.
Also, thanks for your words on #2 about the erroneous thinking that marriage should be a place where all needs are met. I used to counsel and teach some of Harley’s ideas on this, but you’ve opened my eyes by several comments that you have made that this is a vain pursuit. I had never thought of it as an unbearable load nor idolatrous, but you’ve convinced me. Thanks.
I agree with Lee. I would love to hear some insight from those here on the questions that he has asked. As an example, years ago my sister was told by the elders she could not remarry a good christian man with whom she was engaged to until her unbelieveing ex-husband marries and “releases” her (he was not unfaithful, he just decided he didn’t want to be married to her anymore). What do you say to those in similar situations?
I cannot separate the word marriage apart from the word covenant. These words are entwined in the inter fabric of meaning for me. The symbolism reaches far back and shows the joining of two lives in unity to one heart and one mind. Like the covenant of marriage, the covenant the Lord shares with us is one in which he will be there, in sickness and health. He pledges much like we do in marriage, to exchanges his strength for our weakness. We vows that death will never do us part, but in death we will see him.
The exchanging of the rings is much like the symbolism of the Old Testament covenant where two covenant partners would exchange robes. If I have a special jacket that I always wear and I wear this jacket all the time people will associate that jacket with me. Now if I give you this jacket people will stop and say “there is Keith, oh no that is someone with Keith’s coat,” That is the reason for the robe. People would see that the robe that the covenant partner is wearing was worn by him. A robe can also be a status symbol. It strikes the core of my soul when I see Paul mention things like how in baptism we put on Christ and clothe ourself with him.
All these things are to say, in our culture today I feel we have lost the symbolism of the COVENANT of marriage. We forget that symbols play a major role in how we view the world. The symbol of the cross reminds many of the sacrifice Christ made. The symbol of the ring on the left ring finger means one is taken in marriage.
Marriage is a covenant between two people, that no matter the cost we are working together in love.
I will leave with this final thought.
The true test of a relationship is to disagree and still hold hands.
Fantastic post, Mike. Thank you for putting this together.
Going back to Terri’s comment: As someone who’s had a similar experience I can say that one of the toughest things for me to deal with was the assumption, which became obvious here and there, that the husbands and wives who were still married for the first time were necessarily better partners than I had been because, afterall, their marriages were still intact and mine was not. This compounded the pain of my divorce many times over. In my church, I felt judged as well as pitied. It was hellacious, and I found myself wanting bad things to happen to others, for a fall to follow their pride. When someone would meet a minor or not-so-minor tragedy, I found myself feeling vindicated. Did I really have the power to call down curses? I hoped so, but discovered that I didn’t have much of a batting average. The bad thing was, I sometimes rejoiced over evil. I learned how to hate in ways that scared me, bothered me, depressed me, compromised who I was and what I wanted to do with my life.
All of this to say, It’s important to remember that just as love covers a multitude of sins, meanness and pride tends to create a multitude of sins. So be good to the broken; and be especially good to those who have gone first in your behalf. And Ken, thank you for being the friend who stays closer than a brother.
Mike,
A great post!
And a great line…“It seems to me that the church is too easy on divorce and too hard on divorced people.” I strongly agree.
Like you, I have found much help on this (and a few other matters) in Richard Hay’s book, THE MORAL VISION…
Thanks.
My husband and I have been married for nearly 6 years, and we know we both still have much to learn. I came into our marriage expecting that all of my needs would be met in him…and wound up turning him into a parental figure. We’ve had some therapy sessions with a counselor, and we both readily admit we hid a lot of things during our premarital counseling.
Only when I began to seek mentorship from one of my Elder’s wives did I begin to let myself off the hook and enjoy my marriage for what it is. Her sharing led me to feel so much less alone! Praise God for transparent mentors!
Lee -
Here’s my pastoral answer. Obviously I don’t answer it as the Q&A guy for the church, but as one of the church leaders of a local congregation.
I would not split up another marriage just because there was already a ruined marriage. Do we continue the cycle — even when there may be children of this marriage? Do we demand another divorce because there was sin involved in the first divorce? (For those who are wondering what I’m talking about — follow Lee’s question from yesterday and today.)
My assumption is that when someone is forgiven by God, they are truly, genuinely forgiven.
In my humble opinion, it is not like someone who continues to steal every day. This person (in your scenario) doesn’t continue to act in self interest every day, ruining relationship after relationship.
You may not agree with my answer, but does that at least answer the question you have asked? Perhaps I’m still missing what you’re asking.
Yes, thank you so much for your answer. I appreciate your blog today in how we can help our youth. I have two daughters and it scares me with the divorce rate as it is today. I just think we have made it way to easy to divorce. I’m not suggesting staying in an abuse marriage or not divorcing because of an affair. I know there are certain grounds for divorce. I just know of far too many divorcing because they “got tired of one” and lusted after another and then married the one they were “in love with”. In my family situation the spouse said “I just don’t love them anymore, he was a great person and was never bad to me, the love just isn’t there anymore.” Again, in these situations I just don’t see how the one who cheated and re-married can think that is OK in the eyes of God.
Thank you Mike for your post and your response. I truly appreciate it and your last comment did make sense to me.
thanks
I don’t believe it’s accidental that Matthew’s gospel places Jesus’ teaching on divorce in the context of the Sermon on the Mount between lust/adultery and oaths. It seems that the emphasis of the teaching in this context is on the covenant of marriage and the seriousness of sin. One of my teens spoke responded saying that no one should ever enter marriage unless they’re certain of their willingness to commit.
Lee,
The reason why someone might not be “OK” in a subsequent marriage is not in the fact they are married to another person, it is in the condition of their heart that led them to walk out on the first and violate their “covenant” oath. Scripturally, as far as I can tell, there is no sin in the “fact” of being married, whether it is your 1st or 5th. The sin is not being a man or woman of your word when you walk out on your covenant partner.
And, contrary to popular opinion, there is no being married “in God’s eyes” to a first wife after you have divorced and gone on to a second. When people get married, they are married. When people get divorced, they are divorced. God doesn’t determine whether we are married or divorced, we do. He blesses marriage. He invented marriage (”what God has joined together”), but it is strictly a covenant between a man and a woman. The fact that they are in a 2nd or 3rd marriage is not what makes people guilty. They are guilty of “tearing asunder”. The problem is in the divorce and not the remarriage.
To repent of divorce would be to do all in your power to keep it from happening again.
So, are you saying it’s like “daily sin” We gossip, lie, divorce, etc., just ask for forgiveness? It’s OK if you divorce, remarry, divorce, remarry, and so on…. as you stated 2nd, 3rd,4th or 5th marriage just TRY real hard not to let it happen again? NO WONDER OUR DIVORCE RATE IS SO HIGH. I don’t know if I am in agreement here Brad!
Anyone agreeing with me here or am I the only one on this side of the fence?
I would just hope and pray if my daughter comes to me someday tired of her husband and tells me she’s leaving him for selfish reasons I don’t say, It’s OK honey just ask for forgiveness and better luck on the next marriage! C’mon~~ we have to have some Right vs. Wrong here don’t we?
I want real bad for this discussion to stay on the path of prevention. When we focus on divorce it seems like our emotions get real high. As the father of two children, one married I want to do everything in my power to help them stay married. That was why I mentioned earlier the material by Dr. Gray. We need to give every ounce of effort into prevention. I personally think that far too many young couples go into marriage with far to little training to equip them when trouble comes. One reason why I love Dr. Gray’s material so much is that it puts and older successful couple in the life of a young couple. It makes a powerful statement when a young couple can actually see how a marriage works by getting feedback from people who have been there. The church can do so much to help young married couples.
I really like your comment:
“It isn’t our job to step on the hurting. It wasn’t the way of Christ. Divorced believers share in the fellowship of Christ the way all of us do: by his incredible mercy. They aren’t second class citizens. They aren’t ‘balcony Christians.’”
That’s the difficulty isn’t it. We all have “our” issues that we each want to grab a tourch and shout out loud about. We want to be pure and Holy, but things happen too.
One of the chaplains I work with here at the hospital is fond of saying, “A healthy life is lived in tension.” Always seeking to provide pastoral care to patients, families, and staff in ways that emphasize “balance.”
Mike,
Can you give a more detailed posistion on what you were saying when you responded to Lee. Your answer did have some clear logic, but I think there was definitley some fringes and relativism being used.
Maybe it’s my background, but I think there’s definitley some black/white answers with God’s moral plan for marriage. Just as He has some black/white answers to some others. Yes, I agree there are a lot of grey areas, but I’m not clearly hearing you either.
Thanks!
To followup on what Richard said above, my wife and I lead the Marriage Mentoring program at the White Station church in Memphis. It has been a blessing for us to have a mentor couple to support us, as Mike mentioned the small groups for support, and to see other couples find the same support. We have five mentoring groups and will add ten in January. We are excited about having a proactive program to support marriage, rather than trying to intervene (often too late) in troubled ones.
It seems if the church is to really be of assistance in forming and maintaining healthy marriages, the help must start very early on - even before couples begin dating.
It is a huge battle to overcome the nonsense input from the media - the romantic “I must feel good and will stay as long as I feel good” junk bombarding our senses every moment, it seems.
When couples begin dating, is the church mentoring them, surrounding them with wholesome friends and families, including premarital, indepth counseling and mentoring?
And once married, how do we help those that are going to need it BEFORE they need it?
One church I know of has a good sized single parented family ministry. One of the major suggestions for young couples is that they volunteer in that ministry for at least a year. It doesn’t take long for them to see what a struggle it is to be a single parent, giving them more resolve to work at a healthy marriage. This particular church had an amazing zero divorce record one year that I know of, and may well have had several since then.
The only way to address these difficulties and problems, to avoid and prevent, help and heal when they do occur is to roll up sleeves, dig in and work with these young people. Like all successful assistance, it takes commitment, long term commitment if we are to help them.
Richard,
I agree that prevention of divorce is very important, and if we focused more on it, then divorce likely wouldn’t be the problem that it is. It certainly would be more helpful to a married couple to receive training on how to have a successful marriage than it would be than to give them a list of when you can and can’t get divorced and the potential ramifications of doing so.
That being said, there are some people who have gone through a divorce or are faced with the issue, and for those people, prevention may no longer be an option. In those cases, I think discussion over divorce and remarriage and the ramifications thereof (living in sin? one time sin? no problem? etc.) is healthy and needed.
But once again, I agree that prevention is the big thing. If we had focused more on that in the past, maybe divorce wouldn’t be such a big issue today.
Building on what Kathy said, I think it’s so critical how we handle the topics of dating and marriage in our youth groups. A lot of times I see our churches taking a laissez-faire, “kids will be kids” kind of attitude, and we’re not doing enough to reinforce right ideas about modesty, flirting, dating, sex and committment against the deluge of worldly ideas our kids are drowning in. Maybe we’re intimidated by the subject, or just plain scared to cut against the tide of teen culture, but if we don’t get smart I fear the statistics will just keep piling up. The sophistication of the theology and advice I was presented with by my church when I was their age (not all that long ago) was suitable for a Disney movie. Dating is not just “going steady” with a pricey ring and “legal” intimacy! Thankfully at OC we had good teachers on the subject, including Dr. McMillon, who ran a premarital course on campus for engaged couples. It was well attended, insightful, and in our case, effective.
A couple of observations:
1) It seems to me that what is prohibited in scripture is not divorce itself but remarriage after divorce.
2) In my reading of the various passages on divorce, it seems that the heart behind all the passages is to leave open the door for reconciliation. Remarriage by either party closes that door, and therefore is sin. At that point, the toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube. Humpty cannot be put back together again.
3) I think Keith hit the nail on the head. The marriage / divorce / remarriage question is all about covenants. God takes covenants very seriously. Our redemption from sin through Jesus is based on a covenant made by God. Our marriage covenant is the same kind of thing, and is holy because it also is ordained by God.
4) Divorce is not the unforgivable sin. Neither is remarriage after a divorce. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is sin.
Great post Alan.
That is a bit difficult to accept,. Alan. For a guy to walk away from his wife and family for no good reason, and we tell him, “Well, it’s OK as long as you don’t remarry. There’s no sin here until you try to get another wife.” That doesn’t scan with anything I read.
Sometimes positions change when one finds themselves in the situation we’re discussing here. I won’t say anything is right or wrong. I know it hurts. I know it changes lives forever. I hope that none of you ever have to go through it.
I knew how I thought I would act and feel if I were to ever divorce.
I was wrong.
I am divorced. I hate it. I know why God hates it.
The situation that Mike described in his response to Lee; is my own…
My mother was my father’s second wife. My father was and is a minister in the Church of Christ. The year I was born my parent’s moved, and the eldership at the church my father was working at basically said that my father and mother were living in sin, and something had to be done.
So my father and mother were at that time both convinced that the only way to fix the situation was to divorce (at least until my father’s first wife died, at which time they felt they would be “released” to reunite.)
As a result, I grew up without a father at home. My mom was a single mom, raising two children, my brother and I, with little to no help from my dad. I speak to my dad about twice a year. He didn’t attend my wedding, either of my graduations, or any school activity I participated in. The stigma of divorce and remarriage led to the secret keeping.
We became the secret family. I have half brothers and sisters who don’t know my brother or I exist. My mom never once talked with me about what happened with my dad, until my sophomore year of college. My brother and I only talked about what happened for first time last year. My mom is so wounded, that at times I can hardly stand to be around her.
I praise God because it is only by his grace that I am who I am now.
Divorce is serious business, and should never be taken lightly, no matter the circumstances. People who are married should keep their promises. And clearly the church has a call to both help married people keep their vows, and also to hold them to their vows. To casually dismiss any sin, I’ll borrow Lee’s list, gossip, lying, or divorce, would be a failure to recognize sin for what it is.
But once the divorce is happening or happens, to me it is equally clear, that it is the church’s duty to offer help and healing, and fulfill our calling as ministers of reconciliation.
Now for the issue of divorce and remarriage, and the one that destroyed my family. In my situation, I think the premise the eldership used for their argument, was a legalistic reading of Matthew 5:31-32. (I thought this would surely come up in someone’s comment, but it hasn’t at least not directly.) The verb “commits” (in this passage) in Greek communicates that this is a one time act, not a continual committing of sin. I think that if I were counseling someone who had been divorced regarding remarriage, I would advise them against remarriage (though not in every circumstance). Obviously, prayer and pastoral discernment should be used.
Encouraging a married person to divorce, regardless of whether it’s their first or second or third marriage, etc; is wrong. And quite frankly, to me this seems obvious. The cliche’ “two wrongs don’t make a right” comes to mind.
Ultimately, sin, no matter how you wish to categorize, rank, or name it; is a heart problem, and can only be cured by the grace of God, and it can only be withstood through the power of the Spirit. So let the people of God, be the people of God. May God give us, his church, power through His Spirit to keep our promises, to take sin seriously, to encourage the weak, and to heal the broken.
My situation is also similar to Kristen’s in that my dad had been married before, and my mom had not been. My parents stayed together with my dad thinking that he had the right to remarry since he had not been a Christian before, but my mom convinced they were living in sin once she found out he did not technically have that “scriptural reason” for divorce, based on her understanding.
All of this was kept from me by both of my parents until I was in my late teens and my dad told me about his first wife who was still living.
Every marriage has difficulty, but when one partner becomes convinced that the continuation of the marriage is sin, there is little reason to ever solve problems. At that point, my mom was so full of guilt over being married to a divorced man that their relationship had fallen apart.
I had heard sermons over the years about divorce and remarriage, advising couples with children in that state that in order to make things right, they needed to “live as brother and sister” in separate houses, preferably next door to each other so that the children could still have the benefit of both parents. And then, I find out that this little formula for avoiding adultery might have a bearing on my parents. I was absolutely devastated, especially when my mom decided that she could no longer sleep with my dad and that they had never actually been married in the sight of God in the first place.
Nobody in our church knew our little secret, either. The theological question I grappled with was whether or not my siblings and I were illegitimate. For the first time, this whole thing about divorce and remarriage was no longer purely academic.
I honestly think that those people delivering those verdicts believed that what they were saying was God’s Will. I don’t condemn them for being true to what they believed God’s word said. After all, there is that sticky little passage in Matthew 14 where John the Baptist tells Herod that it was not lawful for him to have his brother’s wife. As I recall, John lost his head over that one. And to the extent that this passage has any bearing on the divorce, living in sin, or remarriage issue and God truly requires something like that, regardless of how painful it is, we must live by His decrees.
Yes, I have heard the argument that this passage had to do with a brother taking another brother’s wife, without the benefit of divorce, but still the santity of marriage was the issue, whether or not one could one could wrangle a comparison between that passage and the issue of one being divorced and unscripturally remarried. It has often amazed me that one generation’s legalism will be overridden by another generation’s legalism, while the spirit of the passage is totally dismissed.
Still, I am grateful that many church leaders are approching the remarriage question with less formula driven answers and more of a supportive, and prayerful stance.
After my parents divorced, my father never remarried. He always felt that he had been in the clear to marry my mom, but not to marry after their divorce, since there was not a “scriptural reason”. Instead, he spent his remaining years involved in ministry. I respect him for being true to his convictions and placing what he believed was God’s Will in this situation above his own desire for companionship. But it was a decision he believed God required, not a decision someone else believed God required of him.
I also respect my mom for teaching me about the sanctity of marriage and the importance of my vows before the Lord. When I married, I chose someone who like myself, was a Christ-follower and who had never been married. This is not to stand in judgment on someone who marries a divorced person or a non-Christian, but it is to say I believed these two things, were foundational to creating the best environment for my marriage and future children.
Kristen and Lee-
These are not easy stories, not easy at all.
Kristen, I am sad over what divorce has done to your life and family. I believe you know better than I how much God hates divorce, and why. I hope that there is both forgiveness and compassion in you heart for everyone who made mistakes in your past.
Lee, as I believe we discussed once before, you struggle with the church’s proper response to a man who had an affair, got a divorce, and married his “other woman”. He wants to be a church member, and how should the church respond?
Let us assume that divorce begins with sin; maybe on both parts, maybe on one part. (Whether the sin is abuse, an affair, selfishness, greed, whatever) The elders, in a case of an affair, at least, should know the truth if they are involved in the lives of the couple. If the man desires to be a part of the church, particularly in the same town or church his former wife attends, it seems that the first step should be an admission of sin and a search for forgiveness, even from the wife he cheated. Can he make things perfect? No. Can he make things better? Yes.
One of the things we have not done well in the church is confession. Maybe we have been legalistic for so long that we just couldn’t bear the reactions. If we could truly be the body to each other, someone in the church would have been in his personal space about the affair before it came to divorce. I think that if the man you talk about was asked by the elders to answer for his infidelity before the divorce, some of the issues would have resolved. It would have been painful and awful, but there is at stake an eternity for at least one soul. That didn’t happen. So now, what to do?
Two divorces can’t make one divorce right, as someone else has already said. Sweeping it under the rug is also not the answer. Not knowing the people or the church, I can’t begin to give you all the answers, but I wonder…
Scripture is clear about going to someone you have offended and being reconciled before you bring your gift to the altar. Why? Isn’t it because our relationship to God is inseparable from our relationship to men? In that light, it would seem that the man has such a responsibility to his ex-wife and her family. At the risk of sounding like a control freak, I would say the elders should probably be involved with that, and there should be repenting and forgiveness all around. I believe the man should repent and actually ask forgiveness. If that does not happen (or if it does happen), you must concern yourself with how YOU will respond, and the effects YOUR response have on your family.
It seems that the ones really hurt and offended are the ex-wife and those who love her (family, friends, etc.). Sometimes, I think forgiveness should be as public as the sin, so what would happen if that group got together and decided to forgive the man and his new wife, openly, personally, prayerfully, no strings attached? It may be that the greatest power we have on this earth is to forgive freely, before we are asked, because free forgiveness can never be paid off. Isn’t that grace? Can we be compassionate with someone who has really hurt us? I hope so, because there is little we can experience to compare to what Jesus and his Daddy experienced in our behalf. What will that open forgiveness tell your children about sin, compassion, and Jesus? What response might it have in a man who has made some really poor choices, and the woman who is now his wife? May God bless you in your struggle with this, and give you peace.
To Paul and others who made reference to “God hates divorce”:
We assume that we understand why God said that, and we are probably correct in many ways. However, a couple of years ago, I came to a new understanding of that verse in Malachi.
I have been a marriage and family therapist for 14 years. I have had clients in troubled marriages, clients going through divorce, and clients already divorced. One theme has emerged (from these clients) through the years that goes something like this: “I know that God hates divorce, but I have never sensed His Presence like I do during this divorce. It seems strange to me.”
One day, after hearing this so many times, it suddenly hit me–this may be the greatest verse on God’s love in all the Bible!
Think about it. If you had a child and saw that he/she was in a nasty place (maybe jail?) you would try to have contact with him/her and be of help and support through the crisis because of your undying love for him/her–no matter what.
God said “I hate divorce” knowing that some of His children would go through it. He wanted them to understand beforehand how detestable it is to Him so that when we felt His Presence strongly during that time, we would GET IT–understand that He is willing to go wherever He has to in order to be with us!
Paul, try to remember those specific times when you felt/feel God’s Presence in a very strong way. He was/is showing His GREAT love to you.
I think that too often we subconsciously translate “God hates divorce” to “God hates the divorced” in our minds. How can anyone ever recover who thinks that about self? And how can anyone who thinks that ever love and support those who are divorced?
Brad wrote:
> That is a bit difficult to accept,. Alan. For a guy to walk away
> from his wife and family for no good reason, and we tell him,
> “Well, it’s OK as long as you don’t remarry. There’s no sin here
> until you try to get another wife.” That doesn’t scan with anything
> I read.
I’m not saying that is not sin. A lack of love and a lack of providing for the family is sin. But isn’t the situation a little different if a wife is regularly beaten by her husband? I can’t in good conscience tell her she has to stay and take it. But if she leaves I think she needs to remain separate or else be reconciled to her husband (1 Cor 7:10-11)
If we could look at each other with God’s eyes, that may also explain why He hates divorce. We are His children. When your children hurt, you hurt. If two people who decided to wed and brought children into the world could look at each other like God looks at us. He never promised us a rose garden, and marriage does bring out the thorns. We are so patient with others, but sometimes take for granted those we live with. I am old enough to have talked to old friends that went through with divorce, the number 1 thing they say, is if we had tried a little harder when we were in that marriage, I don’t think we would of ever gotten that divorce. I traded one set of problems for another. Or I married the same person all over again.
Alan: “But if she leaves I think she needs to remain separate or else be reconciled to her husband (1 Cor 7:10-11)”
Iow - you are of the pov that the victim is to be punished for the sins of the other. So if, for instance, a battered woman who leaves to save her children’s lives as well as her own, is then to be restricted in her life because of the sins of the husband/father? I don’t think so.
Yes, every effort must be made to get the proper help for the abusive spouse, but when there is NO repentence on his part, I’m convinced she is freed from the covenant that HE has broken by threatening her life and those of her children.
Paul tells us to keep the peace with others as much as it is in our power to do so. I doubt seriously he’s saying that you must put your life on the line and those of your kids in order to preserve a false peace and a broken marriage that the abuser has broken apart.
My two cents -
First, neither of the Gospel accounts (Mark 10:9 & Matt 19:6) on divorce deals with the question,”What do we do in real-life situations?”
This is a very important point because we have traditionally approached these texts as if they gave instructions on what to do when people sin. They do not.
Second, if we want to know how to deal with people who do not live up to the ideal — who sin, in other words — we should turn to the multitude of other places in Scripture which teach us how to deal with sinners, keeping in mind the difference between sin and sinners.
We must preach perfection, as Jesus did, but we cannot require it any more than he did.
The call here is to help prevent divorce and to help bring healing to hurting people. But some can’t see that more hurt is piled on when we tell people that it is somehow OK for their mate to have walked away from the marriage for no good reason, as long as they didn’t remarry and that, oh by the way, you can’t remarry either. Good grief! (or as my wife’s grandmother says, “Oh my conscience!”)Ask someone who has been left by their mate if that helps or hurts. That theology destroys and is not from God.
Alan - The primary sin of a divorce is not in there being a lack of love or a lack of providing for family, though those things are sin. The primary sin of divorce is “you broke your word”. It is best said by Malachi:
Malachi 2:13-16 You flood the Lord’s altar with tears. You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. 14 You ask, “Why?” It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant. 15 Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth. 16 “I hate divorce,” says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,” says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
The primary reason God hates divorce is because it is “breaking faith” with your covenant partner. When I married my wife, I entered a covenant with her, promising to love, honor, cherish, protect, serve, be faithful to her as long we both shall live. If I were to just walk away, I have dishonored my word and been unfaithful to the covenant promises that we made.
To me, a theology that doesn’t see divorce as the primary problem is what promotes more divorce. “Hey, just don’t remarry and everything will be OK.” Tell that to the wife and kids that were left with no means of support or protection that everything is OK, and that “oh, sorry, you won’t be able to find another husband until the weasle that left you decides to marry again, if ever.”
Thanks for the post Mike. I would recommend anything written by Olan Hicks for folks dealing with the issue of divorce and re-marriage. For years Olan was they only voice “crying out in the desert” concerning this issue that has devastated so many lives and unfortunately, some of that “devastation” was inflicted by fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.
Lee,
I will freely admit that this response is my way of reconciling what divorce has done to my family. The way I have coped with my parent’s divorce and my sibling’s divorce is framing my comment.
I feel the Christian response often fails to distinguish earthly consequences with eternal ones. While divorce has long-term and far-reaching consequences, it does not mean it is a continual sin. In your example of theft, I could steal from a friend or a bank. My friend likely would not send me to jail, and he may eventually forgive me. My bank theft certainly would land me in jail. The earthly consequences have considerable differences, but is the sin not the same?
The other thing that the church does not recognize is that there is not always an innocent party in a divorce. There are times a partner chooses to cheat because love and respect are not present in their marriage. While that does not justify an act of cheating, is the other partner not partly responsible for the deterioration of their marriage?
My parent’s divorce was one where the relationship went to complete apathy. My dad has chosen to remarry, and my mom has remained single. I do not feel like my dad is in continual sin. He now loves his wife and treats her with respect. He does not defame my mom in any way, and he understands the importance of her role in my life. My mom has always supported my desire to stay in a relationship with my dad.
As a child of divorce I do not resent my parents for the act of divorce. What bothers me is they felt their relationship to each other was not worth maintaining. Their sole motivation was for the children. While that is an admirable motivation to work towards healing a marriage, if there is no commitment to each other the marriage would still be destined for failure. The children will not stay in the house indefinitely—the partner will stay till death.
As a church, we need to teach that love is not a feeling. Mike chose the word “ecstasy,” and I think that is appropriate. I choose to love my wife, and she chooses to reciprocate. That is a choice that we make regardless of how we “feel” about each other in any given day. Satan has made our vision of love too “Hollywood,” and the church needs to reclaim it.
Sorry for my lengthy response. Unfortunately, divorce has touched my life in many ways. In some respect I consider myself an expert.
Eric
I may be opening up a can of worms, but going through a divorce right now, I wonder what God meant to define adultery. Can addictions (whether it be gambling, drugs, alcohol, etc.) be defined as adultery? That was/is my case. I feel that addictions completely take over one’s life and becomes their first priority. Can anyone relate?
Kathy wrote:
>Iow, you are of the pov that the victim is
> to be punished for the sins of the other.
I don’t think that at all. Perhaps she made an unwise vow, but it was a vow nevertheless. I’m not trying to paint absolutes but I think we should consider the seriousness of breaking a vow, even an unwise vow.
Ecc 5:4 When you vow a vow to God, do not delay paying it, for he has no pleasure in fools. Pay what you vow.
Ecc 5:5 It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay.
Deu 23:21 “If you make a vow to the LORD your God, you shall not delay fulfilling it, for the LORD your God will surely require it of you, and you will be guilty of sin.
Deu 23:22 But if you refrain from vowing, you will not be guilty of sin.
Deu 23:23 You shall be careful to do what has passed your lips, for you have voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God what you have promised with your mouth.
“It seems to me that the church is too easy on divorce and too hard on divorced people.”
That says it all.
I confess to not taking the time to read everyone else’s comments, but wanted to add a book recommendation for any marriage:
“Sacred Marriage: What if God designed marriage to make us holy rather than to make us us happy” by Gary Thomas
great post
Bonnie,
Adultery as used in Scripture is a broad term meaning “unfaithfulness to a covenant agreement” and is used to describe several ways in which covenant partners can violate the terms of their agreement, sometimes seen in a marriage, sometimes seen in Israel’s relationship with God.
Matthew 19:9 says divorcing and remarrying results in adultery.
Matthew 5:32 says divorcing by itself results in adultery
Matthew 5:27 says lusting is adultery
Jer 3:9 says Israel committed adultery with stones and trees (idolatry)
James 4:4 calls those seeking friendship with the world by abandoning God “adulterous”
Matt 12:39 Jesus calls those craving for a sign adulterous.
The common theme of all these uses of the word adultery is covenant unfaithfulness. Divorcing your wife that you promised to be with forever and marrying another is adultery, as well as divorcing your wife and not marrying someone else. Lusting after someone other than your wife or husband is unfaithfulness to your promise to love, honor and cherish only your mate, so that is called adultery. Israel seeking another god when they were covenant bound to Jehovah God was adultery. Friendship with the world was seen as an abandonment of God and therefore adultery.
So anything in a marriage that goes against the words of promise made at the beginning is adultery, not that those sins make the covenant void, but are violations against it. I think addictions would fall into that category if they become the sole focus of a person at the expense of all others. They may be grounds for dissolving the covenant, but don’t have to be if those who have offended repent and seek to be faithful. That’s where the fruit of patience, love and gentleness can come into play to save the marriage, if the offender wants to make things right. On the other hand, as someone mentioned earlier, a person who is married to someone who has no interest in remaining faithful in their marriage is not bound to chase after that person for the rest of their life. (1 Cor 7:15-16)
(Sorry I’m writing so much on this particular post. I’m a bit passionate about it. I’ve seen too many people destroyed by having a yoke placed on them that is impossible to bear. Thanks for the civil discussion.)
G’ampa C,
Confession and Forgiveness.
Amen and Amen.
I appreciate your wise words.
First, “except for adultery” was added into the King James Version (that so many churches base their entire beliefs into) to accommodate King Henry VIII. In the OT, God “allowed” a writ of separation. In Malachi, it says God hates divorce. What God joins, man can’t separate.
That being said, I have two divorced children. If a spouse wants to divorce you, they can. It doesn’t matter how much the other party doesn’t want it. My son fought it tooth & nail. The divorce ripped out his heart. I honestly didn’t know it he’d survive it. And he wasn’t a child by any means. Somehow, we have to stress to our children - they HAVE to understand - that it not only matters how they feel about marriage and divorce, but how their mate feels about it.
These past two days I have read comment after comment describing the pain and anguish suffered by those touched by divorce in one way or another. How can we learn from this? Some of you might be willing to talk about things you have learned which might keep others out of divorce. I should not open that ball game on Mike’s site, but if you want to share, go to http://www.gampac.blogspot.com (Sorry, I have not been successful in making a live link)
I think someone here asked about Paul Faulkner’s contact information because he has some great materials on divorce (and remarriage, I presume). Well, I have tracked down said information, and you may obtain this information by e-mailing me.
Twenty eight years ago, my divorced mother moved her 4 children to a new town so she could start a new job. Even though she was not a regular church goer, she wanted to start attending church with us, to establish a “family” and become involved. After a few weeks at this church she noticed the men were just friendly enough but the ladies were quite “stand offish”. After approaching the minister and his wife to let them know of her frustrations, she was told that, frankly, the ladies were threatened by her and her single status. Looking back, it is almost laughable. If only they knew how exhausted she was from raising four kids alone, they would have known she had no interest in pursuing a man, especially a married man. Oh and guess who was NOT raised in church? I am thankful things have changed in the church now.
Also, divorce does not impact only the couple and their children. It impacts the grandchildren as well. I will never forget when my 4-year old asked “why doesn’t Grandma Irene have a grandpa at her house?”
I am almost forty years old and still face the burden and pain of my parents’ divorce almost daily, especially now that one of them is suffering from a serious illness. But perhaps that is for another post.
I think the church has fostered the wrong attitude about divorce. We seem to approach the Bible on the subject of divorce with the question, “For what can I get divorced?” The biblical question is rather different: “How can I stay married?”
Excellent thoughts, Mr. Mike.
After 24 four years of marriage, my husband decided that he did not love me anymore…we were very active in the church…our kids were blindsided and because he likely felt so guilty, he totally incapacitated my children by accusing them of contributing to the divorce ect….It was and continues to be very crippling for the boys. I am remarried to a wonderful man but that divorce will NEVER be out of our minds and lives…it will effect my children and grandchildren and who knows how many other generations….If my husband could have been more supportive of the kids, I think it might have been better….None of my children attend the CoC anymore…my youngest is attending a Baptist congregation….and very happy…the two older boys are barely functioning…Divorce is bad…is it my imagination or are C of C divorces the worst?! The ones I have experienced with other friends seem to bear that out….
Alan -
I was particularly struck by something you had to say, and I’m going to quote it here and then ask about it.
*****
1) It seems to me that what is prohibited in scripture is not divorce itself but remarriage after divorce.
2) In my reading of the various passages on divorce, it seems that the heart behind all the passages is to leave open the door for reconciliation. Remarriage by either party closes that door, and therefore is sin. At that point, the toothpaste cannot be put back into the tube. Humpty cannot be put back together again.
3) I think Keith hit the nail on the head. The marriage / divorce / remarriage question is all about covenants. God takes covenants very seriously. Our redemption from sin through Jesus is based on a covenant made by God. Our marriage covenant is the same kind of thing, and is holy because it also is ordained by God.
4) Divorce is not the unforgivable sin. Neither is remarriage after a divorce. But that doesn’t change the fact that it is sin.
*****
My husband is wonderful. He’s a godly man with beautiful ideas for the Kingdom and a humble heart that searches for the Spirit. He’s an amazing father, and he’s a very loving man. He’s a good husband. God has blessed our marriage more than we could have asked or imagined. It’s not perfect, but we love eachother, and our commitment is real. We have a beautiful daughter, and I can see God’s love when I look at my husband and the way he loves our daughter. And that’s as it should be. He loves the Lord, and he loves his family.
But he’s divorced. He married very young. Fortunately, they had no children together. His wife chose to break their covenant by having an affair. He caught her, forgave her, and took their marriage to counselors, both secular and in the church. After two years of counseling, she was still cheating. He chose to leave, with scriptural reason to do so. His ex-wife has now been re-married and divorced THREE times. The problem is HERS, not his.
According to you, my husband is living in sin by his marriage to me?
This makes me cry, and I can barely see to type this! My husband is not perfect, but he loves the Lord, and he loves me. Am I to believe that God would see our marriage as sin, then? Is our beautiful daughter a by-product of his SIN? Should he be asking forgiveness everyday for his marriage to me?
For us, divorce is not an option. Like my grandparents and my parents before us, we don’t even view it as a possible way out for problems. No matter what, we have made a commitment, both to each other and to God - that we will remain in our marriage, and remain faithful to each other. How can a scripturally based commitment be sinful?
So then, does my wonderful husband contine to sin until the day he dies, simply because he is married to me? Have my parents sinned, by “giving me away” to a man this is divorced? Is our daughter born into our sin because her father was once married to a cheating woman?
I’m so upset! How dare someone say that my husband is sinning by being married to me! I think people are TOO hard on divorce. Yes, God hates divorce, but isn’t it the SIN that leads to divorce that He hates? Doesn’t God love His children, who choose to be faithful to Him, even when others around them are not?
Where is the love, kindness, compassion and patience in your voice? The fruits of the Spirit are not manifested in cold, hard words of pride, but in love and in truth and in kindness and in FORGIVENESS. I have seen God’s hand in our marriage, and believe that God brought us together to serve HIS purposes. It’s impossible to think that our Christ-centered marriage is a SIN.
When we married, we dedicated our lives and marriage to the Lord. We then moved halfway across the country to VOLUNTEER with a small church, because we believed the Lord was calling us to do so. We quit our jobs and moved much too far away from my family because we were following where the Spirit led us. He has blessed us SO richly since we have been here. I can feel His Hand leading us, guiding our marriage and lives to where He wants us.
Please explain to me how our marriage is a sin? Is God against us? Your words have wounded me deeply.
My apologies about the clipped web addresses. Just go to http://www.biblicalresearchreports.com, click “Divorce and Remarriage: Why Didn’t We See This Before?” and then check the following links:
“What is the Act or Action that is Adultery in Remarriage?”
and
“Why divorce is not adultery”
After reading Laura’s post, I feel I have to speak up. I grew up feeling that divorce was one of those really BIG sins. Divorced people were outsiders, bad people, people who were too lazy or uncomitted to do what it took to stay married. I think I still believed all of this on some level two years ago when my husband decided after 6 years of marriage to leave me. I screamed, cried, and begged God to just take me up to Heaven so I could leave behind the pain. It seems crazy now, but I begged God not to hate ME for what my husband had chosen for us.
After two years of pain, acceptance, and healing, I refuse to believe that God will not bless me in the future, whether I decide to remain single or not. Are we so shallow as to believe that God places limits on His love and grace, especially when it comes to people whose lots have been chosen for them?
God hates divorce, this is true… and no one can better understand why God hates divorce than a person who has been through one. I guarantee that almost any divorced Christian will tell you that divorces are not good things; however, I also can tell you that God reveals so much of His goodness in the face of agonizing pain, and churches lose out on amazing testimony when they box off divorced people as second class citizens.
Joel,
I went to the link you posted. Ugh! Don’t believe all that. It is poor exegesis, poor application and destructive in bringing healing to broken folks who have been divorced.
The Church, Marriage, and Divorce…hummm…where do I start? Descirbe me as a child of divorced parents [Dad once, Mom 7 or more times, lost count] and married a divorced person with children. No children for us together. One sister divorced 4 times before age 23. One sister divorced after 10 years, now going on 4th or 5th boyfriend since divorce. One sister married at 17 and still married in her 40’s. Her husband was divorced before he was 19. Brother divorced after two years, never remarried. One brother never married. …if you are still reading, yes this is all true. The rest of the details are too painful to try to organize.
I may or may not be a “whole” person.
If I can’t come into a church, where can I come in to?
About a year or so after my wedding, my husband was asked to carry the contribution tray during service on Sunday. From there the “ministries” he was invited to serve in gradually increased. Not sure if we are fulll fledge members yet.
I ask the Lord to help me treat every other person as a “full” member and maybe the same acceptance will be returned.
All I can say is please pray for me and I would like to pray for you, too.
I’m 20, twenty, years old and I’ve been born again at the age of fifteen and love my walk with the Lord. I’ve been reading through almost all of these posts. All this talk of divorce is serious business, and it brought me to tears just a few minutes ago. I completely broke down. I experienced divorce when I was five years old after my father was having an affair with another woman. Needless to say, my mother and I were heartbroken, and at five, and from that point on, I’ve tried to be there for her and look out for her. Two men have left her after they were married and she has been treated worse than dirt at times. All that to say this. I realize, I think, that marriage is for better, or worse. For richer, or poorer, in sickness, (cancer, alzeimer’s disease, stroke, brain damage, etc), or in health, forsaking all others until death do you part. I want to give my heart, body, mind and soul to another person, but with all this talk of divorce this, divorce that, I’m ready to give up hope of ever committing to marriage, no matter how bad I want it. Although statistics don’t tell everything and are pretty much not reliable, From the divorce rate being so high, IT just seems that marriage isn’t worth it. Maybe it’s my emotions that I’m running off here when I say that I want to share my life, my very being with someone and I want to give them all the love and support that I can. I don’t know. But it just seems from all the divorces going on, marriage just isn’t worth the risk, no matter how badly someone wants to share themselves, body, soul, mind, spirit, joys, sorrows, hopes and dreams with another person in a long-lasting committment for life. Any thoughts?
P.S. Lorah, I read your post, and I think that Allan was saying that if one spouse leaves the other, it is a sin for the spouse that has left to marry again. You were not the one at fault and I don’t think, in my humble opinion that you should feel guilty. That’s just me, though. Please, somebody, share your thoughts with me, as I am really hurting and depressed about this whole subject of marriage and the committment it takes. So many people tell me it’s worth it, and those people have long lasting, Godly marriages and many of them go to my church. Then, there are so many others who say well, it’s not worth it. And so I’m stuck. And just for the record, I’m not planning to rush into any relationship any time soon. I’m waiting on God’s timing and his provision for a woman.
Jeffrey
This is great. You should also look at TrueMarriage.net where they are working on helping people to bind themselves more carefully according to their Church’s view of marriage. Very exciting.
I must say after reading alot of these posts I am disgusted and pleased at the same time. I am not Church of Christ and frankly don’t want to be but as an outsider I can say part of your problem is your religion itself.
If you think even for a second that you are still married to someone you have been divorced from you are either A. indoctrinated B. delusional C. both. It’s impossible to commit adultery with your spouse. It’s like being a married bachelor. This is the same now as when Jesus walked the earth. Doctrines like some of your people espouse make him sound like an idiot. The ideal is for marriage to be good and lifelong, reality paints a different picture.
What reason/evidence could you possibly have to think otherwise? I appreciate Brad as he has both a common sense approach that matches a real world ethic that Jesus would have espoused. I think Alan is rather disgusting in his views and much harm can come from them. Not to mention the fact that he actually is encouraging divorce. In essense he is not pro-marriage at all. A guilty person has as much right to another try at marriage as an innocent. What kind of forgiveness do you folks practice over there?
Why shouldn’t a guilty party marry again? You folks are saying Jesus can forgive all sins but marriage destruction. What a load of BS. If you destroy a marriage and ask forgiveness the sin is gone. I simply can’t believe there are people dumb enough to think divorce is ok but marriage post divorce is the problem. Utterly and completely backwards. Trash existing marriages to reform trashed marriages. Only religion and bad religion at that can make people do such ridiculous evils.
Marriage is an instituiton for men. It does not have a religious origin but does have religous meaning to many. Many marriages are not founded on solid ground and pretending these people need to stay together is as harmful as divorce. Is a girl who becomes pregnant out of wedlock and marries because of it in a ’sacred’ union? Is a woman who marries for money? There are 100’s of other scenarios.
I feel a special sympathy for the couple above who actually got divorced based on what some folks from a podunk church think they read in the bible. This is not a flaw of these people but a flaw in the religion they follow and frankly it is disgusting from any rational viewpoint. Their religion ahs increased the pain in the world not decreased it. What a reflection on Jesus. Any God who would punish people for mistakes in marriage is one who may not be worth worshipping.
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