“I am of Christ.”
That sounds like such a nice descriptor. Others may claim to be of Paul, and others of Apollos (two influential teachers in Corinth) — but I am of Christ.
So why does one have the feeling that Paul didn’t have warm feelings about those who made that claim (1 Cor. 1:12)? Because there were schisms in the church in Corinth: maybe within the house churches, maybe between the house churches, perhaps when they all came together. And behind the schisms, there was a lot of pride at work and a dearth of love.
There were fracture lines appearing, partly because they were attached to their teachers in unhealthy ways (but ways that would have been familiar in Corinth).
But others, dripping in pride and exclusivism, were only “of Christ.”
That resonates with me. Because for part of my life I took pride in not being of Wesley or Calvin, of Luther, and certainly not of the Pope. Just a Christian.
The desire to be “just a Christ-follower” can be very healthy. But it must not become a source of separation from others whom we don’t deem to be just as pure; and it should not ignore the fact that we’ve been influenced by many men and women and of faith. None of us is completely objective. None of us is reading scripture without bias. None of us finds our place in the family of God by being perfect–either in living or in biblical interpretation.
As I lived in those words of Paul last week, it reminded me of how subtle and dangerous spiritual pride is. It is so well disguised, masquerading in costumes of restoration and humility.
Beware anytime there is a church or a group that thinks it has cornered the market on spirituality, interpretation, or missionality. Let us follow the leading of God’s Spirit as he helps us live for the sake of the world; but let us recognize that there are many, many other followers of Jesus who may worship differently, talk differently and think differently.
Thank you so much for this Mike. You have convicted me.
Mike, oh my………..didn’t you mean to say “worship in error, talk in error, and think in error”?
DU
even if you have the truth and have not love, you have nothing. a hard lesson for me.
Mike: Interesting that you post this today. I was rereading the 1st chapter of “More Jesus, Less Religion” last night. It talks about having an unhealthy faith and believing that we cannot associate with anyone but “our own kind” so we stay clean and uncorrupted. A healthy faith allows us to associate with other folks and lead them by living Christ. Who were the ones that complained about Christ & what he practiced and who he associated with? Wasn’t it the religious “rulers?” The ones who thought they had the corner on the market and they believed that he shouldn’t be associating with the “sinners.”
Great post! Thanks!
Holy Cow…..I love this stuff.
It’s funny (in a sad way) that we could become Pharisaical in our anti-Pharisaicalism. I’m pretty sure I just made that word up, but you get the point.
Cory,
But isn’t that the way it works sometimes? You become what you focus on.
What? No St. Louis Cardinals post? Oh, I get it. Just a quiet confidence, like you were going to win all along…
Great stuff on “cornering the market”. It has become clearer to me that that mindset has been a part of our heritage. Great motives at first, “of Christ”, but moved toward “we are the only ones of Christ”.
I find it interesting how many people in our movement claim that we were founded at pentecost and have no knowledge of Stone or Campbell and the restoration movement.
Its kinda cultist, really.
As a lifelong Christ-seeker (and only part of them as a CoC member), AMEN!
My husband comes from a family tree who goes WAY back in CoC history, and he used to pridefully say, “I’ve never been to a church service other than a CoC one!” I just prayed that the Lord would show him the absurdity and pride existing in such a claim.
Then, one day…he was on the phone with his mother and I overheard this gem: “Mom, I used to think CoC Christians were going to be the only ones in Heaven - I don’t think that at all now.”
It’s not that he wasn’t a believer, but on this topic, 1 Peter 3:1-2 was true to life
Thanks so much for today’s entry, Mike and the expanded version yesterday.
One of Oswald Chambers’ daily devotionals proffers the following thought:
“When we become advocates of a creed, something dies; we do not believe God, we only believe OUR belief about Him.”
Slowly but surely, God will out - His truth will surface, our attempts to confuse to the contrary. He will unite His Church, again our attempts to the contrary. /o\
Years ago I remember someone asking an older friend of mine if we should fellowship brothers and sisters who are “in error?”
My friend answered - without missing a beat - “Are there any other kind?”
Yes, thanks Mike! I have been a Pharisee in so many ways during my faith life–as I grow in understanding, I seem to want to congratulate myself as an “anti-Pharisee” (I like your new word, Cory). I find I am constantly slapping myself awake AGAIN to repent of such pride. Thank the Lord for His indwelling Spirit; I depend on His supernatural reminders!
When I went to Baylor in the late 80’s, one of my goals was to convert the school to “true” Christianity. My shock was that I discovered that they loved the Lord and pursued His mission as much, or in my case, even more than I did. It opened a huge door to the Body of Christ for me that I never believed existed. It showed me that there were many, many other Christians doing their best to serve Jesus through the lenses of their own backgrounds and experiences. Unfortunately, I keep having to learn this lesson as I encounter more and more Christians from different denominations, races, cultures, political parties, and even close friends in my own small group! But when I take my gloves off, I realize that diversity within Jesus is such a beautiful thing.
[ ...for part of my life I took pride in not being of Wesley or Calvin, of Luther, and certainly not of the Pope. Just a Christian. ]
FWIW, I grew up attending the Church of Christ, and have been worshipping at a Methodist church for the last 14 years. My experience is/was folks in the CoC were much more “of Paul” (or Campbell, or Lipscomb, or some particular preacher or “brotherhood paper”) than any methodist I’ve ever met is/was to John Wesley. That was certainly a wake up call to me, since I had been taught that “we” were loyal to Christ and “they” followed Wesley, Calvin, Luther, etc.
In 1984 20th Century Christian published Rubel Shelly’s “I Just Want to Be a Christian.” Rubel wrote, “I just want to be a Christian! I want to acknowledge every other person in the world who is a Christian as my spiritual brother or sister.” I believe that book was a watershed moment in churches of Christ. I believe Shelly’s plea is still valid today.
Victor, that book certainly meant (and means) a lot to me. I used to read and re-read that book constantly.
“Beware of any church or group that think it has cornered the market on Spirituality, interpretation or missionality.” Is this not the reletivism that we see in American society today. Are we not saying, well be carefull of the those who say the know the truth? No one really knows the truth? Your okay. Are we trying going to the extreme of not offending others? Are we not to show Lutherians, Calvinists, Catholics the truth? Or do we say well, God’s grace is big enough for everyone, doctrine doesn’t matter. Does doctrine matter? If not, how can we expect the Church of Christ to grow when everyone else is okay? I believe the Church of Christ has got to get over this Barney Church mentality of “I love you, you love me, we’re one big family” if we are to grow. Did Christ offend for the sake of truth? The message sounds pretty good “you can be a Lutheran, Calvinist, Catholic, everyone’s okay, doctrine doesn’t matter.” Are we trying to win the approval of men or God? Did everyone love and accept the message of Jesus? As the a follower of Jesus I see his Word as inspired, living, active, and true. His church is to let the world see the truth.
Preacherman, not wanting to pick a divisive squabble with you, but could be clearer on where the “Lutherans, Calvinists and Catholics” stray from true doctrine? I recognize that there are some ‘window dressings’ that are so totally different than the CofCs, but where are the core doctrines different?
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. Titus 3:10
Kathy,
I appreciate your Christlike attitude in this discussion.
I am a follow of Jesus.
Salvation, first.
I don’t believe Salvation is multiple choice.
Calvins believe the T.U.L.I.P doctrine which isn’t in the Bible.
Total Hereditary Depravity: that the babies inherit the sin of Adam and are depraved of responding to the Gospel of Christ. Original sin. OUt of this doctrine comes the practice of infant baptism which is clearly not authorized in the word of God.
Unconditional Election: that God has a list of those that will be saved and there is nothing that can be done to change it.
Limited Atonement: Christ only died for those on the “saved list.” The Presbyterian Church -”Christ’s redeeming work was intened to save the elect only end actually secured salvation for them…” (David N. Steele, Curtis c. Thomas; The Five Points of Calvism, Defined, Defended, Documented: Presbyterian and Reformed Pulishing Co., 1975, p. 17)
Irresistible Grace: God sends the Holy Spirit, only to those on the saved list, which removes their depraved nature inherited from Adam and creates with them a saving faith in Christ. The Holy Spirit thereafter guides them directly to understand and corretly interpret the Bible (so even they claim to have a corner on Spirituality, interpretation and missonality.)
Perseverance of the Saints: Once a child of God is saved they cannot fall away. Which if you look at Heb 10:26-30; Romans 6:1-2; Galatians 5:4; Gal. 6:7-8; 1 Cor. 9:27; 1 Cor. 10:12; 2 Peter 2:20-22 goes against this teaching.
Many believe in the sinners prayer. The sinners prayer is not in the Bible. Or that Faith only saves. Many believe in differenct way of baptism (sprinkling, dipping, pouring). Baptism is immersion. Many practice infant baptism which isn’t authorized in scripture.
The way prayers are prayed would be a doctrinal issue I believe. The bible gives example or authority to praying to the dead, St.’s, objects, etc. How the church views Mary the Mother of Jesus would be a doctrinal issue. How the churches view the Holy Spirit would be a doctrinal issue. What is the creed in which they follow, man made or God’s word?
Ephesians 4:4-5″There is one body (not many that make up one) and one Spirit- just as you were called to one hope wehn you were called- one Lord, one faith (not differnt faiths), one baptism(not different kinds); one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”
Hey all,
I was thinking. Pride is basically, a sense of one’s own proper dignity or value; it’s the complete anti God. The sin of pride is a preoccupation with self. It is thus very fitting that the middle letter in the word is “i.” Pride is all about “me, myself, and I. I know that is quite a loaded statement but let me explain, pride is the complete anti God because it seeks to venerate and glorify self rather then build up and love others and God. C.S Lewis says it the best, “Unchastity, anger greed and all that, are mere flee bites in comparison, it was through pride that the devil became the devil. Pride leads to every other vice; it’s the complete anti God.
Pride is essentially self-worship, it’s not a respecter of person and it draws us back to the earliest temptation, to try to be and speak for God. Pride in essence tries to get us to stop being the creature and start being the creator, to know all good from evil, to tell my life “Life I know what you need.” This of course is total ignorance on our part but alas it’s something that we do day in and day out. Pride lead Lucifer to become Satan, it was pride that first lead Eve to eat the forbidden fruit it was the pride of the Jews that killed Jesus. In all these things pride corrupts everyone and everything we are. It leads us from dependence into our own independence.
Coming to the realization that the New Testament was descriptive rather than prescriptive was one of the most defining moments in my life as a follower of Jesus. It freed me from focusing on issues that really were minor and encouraged me to focus on what was important. It also broadened my church family considerably and now I have some deep relationships with other Christ followers that don’t necessarily have the same views on “spirituality, interpretation, or missionality”.
Mike, as usual, good thoughts, well expressed. It doesn’t dilute your point(s) at all to ask if there really was a “Christ group” at Corinth. Could it be that Paul is saying, “Hmmm. Followers of Peter, Paul and Apollos. Got any Christians there at Corinth?” Hard to say. But I wouldn’t put it past him.
Unfortunately, that “I’m of Christ” thing among Churches of Christ led to a certain pride in knowing little or nothing about folks like Stone and Campbell. (”If you’ve read nothing by Campbell, then it’s harder to be convicted of being a Campbellite,” was the thinking). Some have said, and I think they’re right, that it is the traditional attempt to be a traditionless tradition that made the constant reinforcement of Christ of Christ traditions the norm in our churches. Exhibit A: Ask any auditorium class, “What should we study next?” The two most commong answers? The Book of Acts and “First Principles.” Recognition, and even study of, Church-of-Christness can be such a good thing for us.
uh, . . . make that “Church of Christ traditions”
Mike,
I never thought about the “I follow Christ” part of 1 Cor 1:12 as being a divisive line. I always thought he was basically saying that those who were of that opinion had the right answer. What you said in your post gives that an interesting twist - what is our attitude when we say we only follow Christ? That we are solely focused on Christ whom we say we follow? Or that we say that to sound and be superior as an end of itself? Following Christ was never meant to be used as a bargaining chip that helps us beat up other people, especially other Christians. Thank you for that twist because that clearly fits the context of division Paul is trying to dismantle in that verse. God bless
I liked Victor Knowles’ quote from Rubel Shelly. The problem is: I do not always know who a true Christian is. If I remember correctly, around 80% of Americans call themselves “Christians”, but according to Barna, only about 14% try to follow the teachings of Christ in the Bible. Disobedient hearts can be confusing to beleivers and non-believers alike.
Wow, preacherman. On the one hand, I know what you’re saying might seem to make sense–it certainly feels like it ought to make sense, that we ought to be outraged. I suppose that’s the same thing those apostles felt when they saw others casting out demons in Jesus name. “Hey, we’re the guys hanging out with him. You guys can’t have what belongs to us…”
But Jesus said such divisiveness wasn’t appropriate. That’s why his last prayer for us was for us to be ONE. I think it’s important for us to be working and growing towards truth, and I think it’s important for us to hold our fellow Christians–regardless of their affiliation–accountable to that–and also to have them hold us accountable. We’re in this together. But if there’s grace for me when I don’t quite get it right, then there must be grace for others as well. That’s perhaps disturbing for us from the worldly standpoint of ego, cliquishness, even human reason. But it’s that grace and the good news of ending divisiveness under the lordship of Christ that will truly bring people to the kingdom…
Now we see in a glass darkly–it’s hard for us to discern. “Christians only, but not the only Christians” can, indeed, be the kind of trump card Mike is critiquing here, but it doesn’t have to be. It can be the thing that heals wounds, frees captives, and spreads the good news.
Because some at Corinth wrongfully, pridefully claimed to be “of Christ”, did that mean it was right to be “of Paul” or “of Apollos”?
Good message Mike.
Paul tells us we will know who our brothers and sisters are by the fruits (of the Spirit) that show up in their lives. [not by propositional beliefs to which they have ascribed]
Do they look, smell, sound, act like Jesus?
Then they are my brother/sister.
Preacherman and others like him are the reason I no longer associate myself with a Church of Christ. How sad such an attitude as his is.
At age 25, I lived overseas in a country where most of the buildings were built before the signing of our Declaration of Independence…or even before the pilgrims arrived. And that was just mere buildings, not philosophical and religious thought! That simple fact brought me to a convicting realization: we don’t have the Truth hemmed in our corner with us as His only access. Rather, He is our only access…just like everyone else.
Bravo on the post. No two of us even chew gum exactly alike. How arrogant to think ours is the only way to be “of Christ.” How subtle the temptation is to disassociate ourselves in order not to be “like them” and in the process end up being like “them” anyway!
Thanks for your excellent thoughts Preacherman.
A Christian can say “I am of Christ ” and be loyal to sound doctrine. It is not cultic to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and be an advocate of healthy teaching. To let scripture be our standard for all we teach and how we live is not to be unloving. Scripture does teach us that those who love Jesus will obey his commands. Just because someone is dedicated to obeying the Lord is not to say one is a Pharisee. A disciple of Jesus can still love people and disagree when a clear teaching of scripture is violated.
Paul was dedicated to the Lord Jesus Christ but was against the heresy in Colossea that trying to replace our sufficiency in Jesus. Read his opening words in Galatians and you know he was opposed to those who were trying to add to the Gospel.
Just because we stand for the truth of scripture is not to beat up on people.
So, I guess we can be One if Preacherman is not one of us. Hmmmmmmm.
Personally, I never cared for the style of John the Baptist or some of those extreme prophets. But apparently God didn’t feel that way. And I think we, too, ought to be very careful who who judge as not worthy of our association.
If I had a nickel for every time…. I was in a class or devo. setting discussing how Jesus handled a situation, or what He was about to his world, and someone said “yeah, but he also drove the money-changers out of the Temple”.
Is that code for something? It is to me. But, it’s like no one really bothers to see with their heart what Jesus was doing in that situation, it’s just a reaction to throw out when they feel uncomfortable that Jesus could possibly be leaving their myopic field of vision. Hopefully that didn’t come across condescendingly - it wasn’t meant to be.
Scripture has taught us a bunch over the years… how its ok to have slaves or how to burn “witches” at the stake… how to try and take back the holy lands or how to determine who’s in and who’s out of salvation.
Scripture is important, but it must be translated communally. You can’t just sit down, read the bible, and come up with “the way”. We all read scripture through the lenses of our culture, heritage, family, etc and we can’t divorce that. Its a sticky situation to be sure, but the main test must be seeing fruits of the spirit, not whether or not the right sign is on the building or they worship “correctly”
Mark2 - May I suggest we’re all on the same seeking/learning path? When we explore the core values within preacherman’s post, we realize that there are many areas in which the ‘window dressing’ is obscuring a unity of belief.
Preacherman, I once heard a very well known Presbyterian preacher explain predestination by saying, “if you’re worried whether you’re one of the preordained, it means you are. So don’t worry about it.” I know that sounds flippant, but there is a core truth there somewhere. If you know who Jesus is and want to follow Him and accept to do so, there’s no question about predestination - you are one of His.
The evangelical preacher in my former San Diego congregation was a full-fledged Calvinist, but spent about five 65 minute sermons dismantling the T.U.L.I.P. pov. He also repeated that just because he was a Calvinist didn’t mean everyone needed to believe the same, that is was his point of view and didn’t have to be ours too. As long as we believe who Jesus is, what He did, and have Him as our Savior, Calvinism is a side issue.
The differences in approach to adult baptism is, imho a matter of semantics. Just as Jesus said in what we call the Great Commission, believe and be baptised to be saved, believe not and be saved not. iow, if you don’t believe to begin with, no amount of water is going to save you, it is the declared belief in and obedience to Jesus as the Messiah/Son of God/Savior that saves us.
This could go on forever, but just a couple of examples of other points of view.
As Jesus said to His disciples that were complaining about the guy not in their group performing the same miraculous acts in the name of Jesus, “by their fruits you will know them.” “If they’re for us…”
But this has gone on entirely too long on a blog that isn’t mine. Sorry Mike for being so long winded, but then, what a surprise, right? lol!
Ray -
Could you define “healthy teaching” and “stand for the truth of scripture,” as you understand those phrases?
Because my guess is that for you (and Preacherman), those phrases mean “a traditional Church of Christ hermeneutic.”
Do other conservative Christian heritages not value “healthy teaching” and “the truth of scripture?” Could it be possible that not every human on the planet has to come to the same conclusion on every book, chapter, verse? Where does grace (both on our part and God’s) enter the picture? Like I said earlier, where do the fruits of the Spirit in a person’s life come into play as “proof,” if you will, of someone’s dedication to the way of Christ?
Honest questions all, I promise. Blessings.
Somewhat related to the “I follow Christ” claim is a trend that seems to be creeping into Christian circles. So many scoff and frown on days gone by when Christians felt compelled to follow a list which resulted in a works based faith. However, some of the same people who object so strongly to works based lists have now created a new list system. It seems to be more “things to do”. Much of this is cloaked in language that speaks of living out what exactly Jesus would want us to do in this world. The problem is that the new list is still just that…. a list that is all about what I do. Instead of checking the box for going to church on Sundays and Wednesday nights, baptism, attending a Bible study, etc… the new checklist appears more interested in social justice– helping the poor, stocking the food pantry, etc. It seems like Paul recognized that pride will always make us seek a list so we can see how we compare with others. Even the statement, “I follow Christ” ignores the fact that Paul says in Ephesians that even our FAITH is a gift. Paul reminds in Romans that there is no room for boasting! Donald Miller has a great analogy to this comparing list mentality in his book Searching For God Knows What. It has been convicting me as to what might be on my list… and better still, how I can get rid of a list mentality!!!
Amy, I think you are on to something. I only wish I had said that.
My understanding of passages like 2 John 9 says that, in this case, a person cannot actively deny the humanity of Jesus and be a Christian. Again, according to 1 John 4, spirits denying that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh are not from God.
Years ago, I got tired of every little opinion being placed in the category of “the doctrine of Christ.” But it is also a mistake to suggest that Christian unity has no propositional basis. It does. In the words of Acts 2, it’s a good thing to be committed to the Apostles’ teaching.
Mark2,
I who are you to judge my attitude. Isn’t that a double standard. I can’t judge those who are Lutheran, Methodist, Catholic but you can judge me. Are you really progressive? I am. I am progressive in thought and practice. As a follower of Christ I am open minded. I understand that people will have different beliefs and oppinions. On the essentials there must be unity. One mind.
I am saying is that if I say I am of Christ, I follow His word and believe that His word is inspired. His word is truth. The Bible does tell us about false teachers and false doctrines. The Bible is my creed.
As Christians we are teach others the truth. The word of God. The truth hurts. The truth offends. The truth corrects. The truth changes hearts, minds and attitudes. All you have to do is look at Jesus’s teaching to see the evidence of that.
So when we say it doesn’t matter where you worship, how you worship, what you think, we are all of Christ; weakens the authority of scripture. And if no church of group has a corner on intreptation then how are we going to be effective in making disciples? Are we sure what we are saying is right? We go back to well no, because no group really knows. How weak. And how can we expect our own people (Church of Christ) to stay and worship when we have the attitude of it doesn’t matter where or how you worship or what you think or feel. Everyone okay.
Steve Jr. ….My point is that it just seems to me we are in a new time of reverse legalism. If I try to my best understanding to submit to God’s word that for some reason now is being a Pharisee.
I am not sure what you mean by a church of Christ hermeneutic. My allegiance is not as some say, to a restoration interpretation of scripture , meaning that my loyalty is not to Stone or Campbell , but Christ and the scriptures.
No, I am sure that some will not agree with me on every point of doctrine. However , just because they do not agree with me does not make me a legalist.
Healthy teaching is just another way of saying sound doctrine which Paul mentions in his letters.
There is no doubt that the fruit of the Spirit will be produced by those led of the Spirit .
Steve, Jr. - where does God’s grace enter the picture? Hopefully very, very early.
My head-scratching (due to contemplation, not dandruff) gets back to these little minor issues that we - the Church - used inspired Scripture to promote true silence for our women (no singing or speaking) up to around 1870, to support women’s lack of voting rights up until 1920, to support slavery and racism, and to support segregation.
Well, are we right now and wrong then, or vice-versa?
KentF, I believe we are all wrong all the time. “There are none righteousness, no not one.” That’s why I love the words that come next, ”But NOW there is a righteousness from God apart from (having to get it right) has been revealed.” We try our best to get it right, but we never will get it all right. Some will get closer than others, but no one person or group will ever get it all right all the time. Every group and every person constantly stands in a position of deserving God’s wrath when compared to his righteousness as expressed by his Law. We all should constantly be learning, but we must do it together, being tolerant of those who don’t see things as we do. I left the CofC because I found in other groups a spirit of inclusiveness and tolerance that I could not find among people that I love dearly but who find fault with those who don’t see things the way they do. Plus, my brethren in the CofC let me know that thinking outside their box was not acceptable. And I’m not even from the Bible belt. I can’t imagine what that might be like.
KentF,
Is there a difference in using the inspired Scripture to promote those things and saying we can show others the ways of Christ and so that all men may be followers of Christ and say “I am of Christ” instead of Luther, Wesley etc. If the church is to be ONE we must be one in thought, purpose when it comes to the essentials. What message do we send when we say it doesn’t matter how you worship, where you worship, think, ect. Shouldn’t as followers of Christ go to the Word to see what he thinks? How he feels? etc.
I know we are all “in error”.
Just answer me this please…………..
Sinning vs. “living in sin” intentionally is where I get confused…….
anyone?????
I still have a problem with those who divorce for selfish gain and re-marry. We all know this happens. Mike had an excellent post of our marriages being in trouble. This scares me. I have so many close friends in their 30’s and 40’s divorcing right and left. The church accepts them in because hey “we ALL sin don’t we?” I have a problem again separating daily sin ~ sincerley asking for forgiveness and “living in sin” intentionally knowing somehow “we all sin” and it’s OK. Please someone address this. Anytime I bring up divorce I never get any responses.
thanks
lee
Preacherman,
On one level, I don’t think anyone’s disagreeing with what you’re saying. Yes, our belief in Christ is important. Yes, people can clearly subscribe to false and destructive doctrines. The ones described in the Bible have to do with failing to see the humanity AND lordship of Christ or with trying to split flesh from spirit (both are gnostic positions). The nature of Christ was considered essential. Jesus himself said that the essentials were to love God and love neighbor. That’s essential. The problem comes after that.
For example, I’d like to see anyone accurately describe 1st-century worship. True, we might cobble together a variety of practices by looking at several biblical books–but that ain’t the same thing. We know much about the worship of the Corinthians, but what we know is that they were getting it mostly wrong. So are you suggesting that their improper worship practices made them not Christain? Paul didn’t seem to think so–and he even suggests that though unsound building on the foundation of Jesus Christ is problematic and will be burnt away on “the Day,” those who did the building will still be saved (see 1 Cor 3:15)…
That should give us pause–you for me, me for you, us for others. Because it’s easy to become so concerned about policing our fellow Christians (something for which we have few skills) that we lose the key commission to spread the gospel into the whole world. Who are we, after all, to judge the servant of another? That’s what the master’s about…
I once thought long and hard about all the ways people could screw things up, but as I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized how simple the biblical picture of essential things is: love God, know Christ, love neighbor. Is there anything else to add? Isn’t this our yardstick for measuring those within and outside of our churches? And if we’re going to cut slack for ourselves–and even for those Corinthians–what are the implications for the people worshipping in other ways in other places?
Essentials are important, but let’s let God determine what those are; let’s let his Word guide our efforts. We’re accountable. We’re one through commitment to Christ and one another. We’re parts of the body who are different and each necessary, unified under the headship of Christ. But our unity is not uniformity.
Some of you should be ashamed at your attacks against preacherman. I have been around the block a time or two and I just don’t see the bad attitude that some of you appear to see in him. Someone used the term “reversed legalism.” I think that person was dead on. I grew up in an ultra conservative “we are the only one’s going to heaven” church, but as I have gotten older one thing has become very clear to me. I don’t want to throw out the baby with the bath water. Sometimes I love this blog and sometimes I don’t, and today I really don’t like it. There is much more that I would like to say, but I, myself, want to keep a good attitude.
“Is this not the reletivism that we see in American society today.”
No. It’s humility. Big difference between relativism (which claims no ultimate truth) and humility (which recognizes that none of us is infallible).
I’m surprised that a few of you think Preacherman was roughed up in the comments. Did I miss something in reading through them? (I’ve been out today.) One person said that his comments are why he left Churches of Christ. All right, that probably hurt. Others disagreed with him (even as he disagreed with me). But that’s hardly roughing him up.
Preacherman is a part of this blog. He’s earned his say. I disagree with some of what he’s written today, but I’m all right with that. He doesn’t have to agree with me to post. But, he also has to be prepared for people to disagree with him. And I’m guessing, based on his comments here through the months, that he’s just fine with strong disagreements.
So Preacherman, keep it coming!
“They will know you are my disciples by your love”
Then again so much of Christianity has nothing to do with Christ.
Mike~
Would you please respond to my above question on divorce?
This has hit home with family members and close friends and I really want to understand why it is so acceptable in our churches today. G’ampa C is the only one on here who has ever cared to answer me.
Thanks!
Mike,
I think it is great that brothes can disagree and still be brothers.
I want to thank you letting me know the difference between reletivism and humility. I as a follower of Christ I am still learning. I am still growing. I am striving to be more like Him everyday. I am of Christ!
I enjoy your blog and your thoughts. I love your books. I agree with you alot of the time. I understand that Christians aren’t going to agree about everything. I know that not everyone is going to agree with me and I’m okay with that. Like you said I am fine with strong disagreements. I didn’t feel roughed up. Like you I enjoy making people think. If you look at my blog that is what it is all about.
I want to thank you for your blog and for making all of think and strive to be more like Christ. You and your blog have helped me have that Holy Hunger.
God bless you brother.
And yes I will keep it coming.
We have been busy the last few days celebrating the baseball Cardinals World Series victory in St. Louis. As I watched hundreds of thousands of fans celebrating something so worldly and transitory, I was struck by the theme that if one celebrated we were all part of “Cardinal Nation”. If the harlots, the sinners and tax collectors are going to go into the kingdom before those who are convinced of their own self-righteousness, I see a principle here. What Jesus was seeking were those who would rejoice and celebrate the good news of the kingdom. We don’t want to end up like the older brother in the parable of the lost son. We hear the music and dancing; but, we are stuck in the field feeling sorry for ourselves because of the redemptive love of the Father’s grace. It is time for Christians from all over the world to unite and celebrate the Lordship of Jesus Christ and become one nation. Unity will never be based upon knowledge. It must be founded upon on relationship. Wherever God has a child, we have a brother or sister.
And, how about those Cardinals!
Preacherman, Yes keep it coming. Your comments have always been very encouraging.
Reading through these comments has brought much emotion. I love that real discussion is happening. I love that family can converse and not always agree but still keep conversing. I love that. But I mostly love that all of you talking are seeking Jesus and his righteousness.
Lee, I really don’t wish to put my comments about divorce on this blog, but I would take the time to discuss this with you via email. If you would be interested, please post your email.
I realize that I am not Mike and that you don’t know me from Adam, but I am here.
Preacherman,
I did visit your blog and was quite impressed with your attitude and facilitation.
Blogs are a good tool to keep the mind moving. I don’t feel good about embracing the divorce issue as accepting so easily in our churches either. I know of many that could of been saved, some rather easy. I see many children that are so hurt. The issue is just very sad.
I do remember upon hearing about Mother Teresa’s death, it was said in a prayer by someone at church, Thank you for her life. Some older woman took offense and loudly proclaimed that woman is only going to burn in hell. I just shuttered. Unity became a turning point for me that morning.
I feel so blessed to be able to read and study and be able to express my thoughts–and be a woman.
Lee - regarding divorce. Paul Faulkner has some of the most enlightening and well thought out dialogue on divorce/remarriage within the church that I have heard. I wish I could tell you how to speak to Paul or obtain this information from him, but I didn’t find much help in my research. Sorry, maybe someone else knows how to contact Dr. Faulkner.
Kent - I’m working on getting you Dr. Faulkner’s e-mail address. I’ll e-mail you with the information when I get it.
Lots of interesting thoughts here, Mike.
I’m wondering about all the discussion over right and wrong, scriptural or not scriptural, and correct interpretation.
I guess I have come to a point in my walk where I have accepted a fact:
I am living in a constant state of being mistaken about scripture. What I thought was clearly black and white when I was 18 is not so sharp a distinction now. Many scriptures I interpret so much differently now than even 5 years ago. If I could get the whole intent of the Bible right in the first reading, I wouldn’t need to study it over and over, right? Isn’t that an admission of error, so to speak?
So, as I study, the Spirit takes me deeper into my walk, and with faith I am walking toward Jesus and not away from him. The whole right and wrong issue in scriptural interpretation is more of a journey than an arrival… so I am in a constant state of being wrong about some issues, issues upon which the Spirit is waiting to enlighten me, when I am able to receive it. It is humbling to know I have been wrong about so many things in the past, and had the pride to stomp on someone else who was struggling. I just don’t have a corner on the market of “correct” interpretation.
Wow, G’ampa C — amazing comment. Thank you for that.
Jesus does have high expectations for His church. He does expect us to live a holy and righteous life. We cannot allow the world around us to lower the high and holy standard of moral behavior and the relentless pursuit of studying the great doctrines of scripture and to mainatain a commitment to doctrinal purity.
” Dear children , do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous , just as he is righteous. ” I John 3 : 7
” But just as He who called you is holy , so be holy in all you do : for it is written : ” Be holy , beause I am holy . ” I Peter I : 15 and 16.
” What you have heard from me , keep as the pattern of sound teaching , with faith and love in Christ Jesus. Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you - guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us. ” 2 Timothy 1 : 13 and 14
I’m a day late on this one, but was compelled to post a comment anyway. I think one way pride sneaks in is to make us lazy about our faith. We’re in, we figured everything out in the 50’s, so what’s left to ponder?
I am in a group where one of my friends is Hindu and the rest would probably claim they are of Christ. Ironically, this Hindu friend of mine seems much more devout in her faith than many of those who are “of Christ”.
I spend a lot of one on one time with this friend as well as some time with another lady who was raised in the “right church”. To be honest, if I were a seeker of faith my Hindu friend’s attitude and lifestyle would be more attractive than the one who is “of Christ”.
I’m not trying to suggest (what’s that word?) deism. Actually I am praying about how to share Jesus with my friend because I believe he is the only way to the Father. I’m merely suggesting we take following Christ seriously. We don’t have the market cornered on faith, unfortunately there are many faiths out there.
Not deism, pluralism. Knew it was an -ism.
And sorry if my comment was a tangent!
Preacherman is an excellent thinker. If you don’t believe me, read his posts. Find someone who agrees with you on 100% of the issues and I will say you just didn’t ask them about enough issues. We will all disagree on some things.
Instead of “read his posts” I meant to say “see his blog.” This string of comments has probably hit a hot button issue for him.
IF we all believe in the same thing, why are there so many different churches? Why do we go to “foreign mission fields” and preach? There is already Christianity in most countries, just not our “brand.” It seems here - on Main Street U.S.A. - we believe that we all have the same goal. But when it comes to exotic locations, we need to preach to the lost.
One example: the idea of preaching the gospel in Russia. I’m not talking about the Ukraine or Georgia. I’m talking about Moscow, St. Petersburg, etc. Most people there are members of the Russian Orthodox church, or as they refer to, “the true church.” When my husband relocated to the U.S., he chose to worship at a church of Christ because it was most like the Orthodox Church.
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