<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Community and Mission</title>
	<atom:link href="http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission</link>
	<description>Sniffing out the work of God in the world...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Stacey</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-55303</link>
		<dc:creator>Stacey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 22:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-55303</guid>
		<description>Is Jesus pro-life or pro-choice?  I read he said to choose life.  Hmmm....

I love Ann Coulter.  Someone said it brilliantly, 'don't mistake Ann's sarcasm for hatred.' 

PS   Whoever votes pro-choice has the blood of Gods' children on their hands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Jesus pro-life or pro-choice?  I read he said to choose life.  Hmmm&#8230;.</p>
<p>I love Ann Coulter.  Someone said it brilliantly, &#8216;don&#8217;t mistake Ann&#8217;s sarcasm for hatred.&#8217; </p>
<p>PS   Whoever votes pro-choice has the blood of Gods&#8217; children on their hands.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jennifer Applegate</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-41229</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Applegate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-41229</guid>
		<description>Google is the best search engine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google is the best search engine</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15382</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15382</guid>
		<description>JT, I am all for moving towards Jesus but is there anything wrong with reasonable and sensible debate?  I'm not talking about Nancy Grace debate where you get shouted down (sorry..screamed down) and belittled and not allowed to speak (O'Reilly debate).  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JT, I am all for moving towards Jesus but is there anything wrong with reasonable and sensible debate?  I&#8217;m not talking about Nancy Grace debate where you get shouted down (sorry..screamed down) and belittled and not allowed to speak (O&#8217;Reilly debate).  <img src='http://preachermike.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15377</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 04:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15377</guid>
		<description>For some reason, the web address got stripped out of my last message. Check out the media study at 

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some reason, the web address got stripped out of my last message. Check out the media study at </p>
<p><a href="http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15376</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 04:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15376</guid>
		<description>Tim, I'm a bit stumped by you. On the one hand, you say that the sacred and the secular should be kept totally separate. It's how you justified torture and why you said the government ("govco," you called it) has no place in "charity" on that thread the other day. But then here you selectively decide that in SOME cases, you expect "Christian values" out of people on the secular side--praising Rush because he's theoretically pro-life (except when it comes to war, of course, or capital punishment, or the poor, or....) and then slamming Katie Couric because she's "pro CHOICE." 

So what's your story? It looks like you're merely justifying your own biases by selectively decrying "immorality" when you disagree with somebody's politics and saying "it's totally separate" when your folks violate ethical standards (for example, Rush's drug use, cheating on his various wives, illegally tampering with prescriptions, etc.). I'm sorry to be so confrontational here, but I'm tired of seeing the pretense of moral indignation that keeps masquerading as theological or ethical concern in these threads. So what do you really believe? I just want you to be honest about when you're applying a standard and when you're willing to let it slide. And, by the way, I'd also like to suggest that a double-standard is no standard at all. 

And what Belinda wrote is true: according to a non-partisan study by the University of Maryland, those who got their news from Fox were more than 3 times more likely (80% of viewers vs. 23% in the most extreme example) to hold inaccurate perceptions of the facts of the Iraq war (for example, they were more likely to believe that weapons of mass destruction had been found; they haven't according to all of the military commanders) than those who got their news from other media sources. Fox viewers were twice as likely to hold inaccurate perceptions as those who got their news from CNN. The people with the most accurate perception? Those who got their news from NPR/PBS. You can check out the study yourself at . 

Why should this difference in perceptions occur? Could it be that Fox really isn't delivering the same quality of information as the other sources? Nah. That can't be it. It must be some liberal conspiracy...

Do you want to know the real story? CNN, Katie Couric, and the rest are generally "moderate" (though understandably next to Fox they look "far left"). They may not hold the same moral values as all or even as most Christians. But Tim, you said that we needed to keep those things separate on that other thread. So I'll hold you at your word on that. If you want to keep Jesus out of it and just talk politics, let's do that: Rush is not a moderate. He's on the right (though not the traditional right since he's unconcerned about spiralling deficits, mismanagement of government resources, the rule of law, and most of the other issues held by traditional conservatives; technically, he's a "neo-conservative," but my guess is he'd throw that over too if it didn't make him cash). And he does have a counterpart on the left--but it's not Dan Rather. It's Michael Moore.

(And, by the way, to all of you suggesting people should just listen to Rush for 6 weeks to "get him," I'd like to make a counterproposal: I'll do it if you'll watch all of Michael Moore's movies one-per-day for that same period--though my guess is that neither one of us will really benefit from that since listening to people at the outer poles of an argument rarely brings people toward consensus in the middle).

But here's an even better proposal: Unlike some here, I don't think you can keep the sacred and secular separate. I believe that Jesus is lord of all things--including our politics, our government, our structures of justice, our culture... everything. So I'm not content to apply standards only sporadically. Here's what I propose: Let's situate Rush and Michael (and Katie and Dan and Fox News and CNN and the Republicans and the Democrats and everything else) next to the witness of Jesus for 6 weeks and see how THEY hold up. If they don't equally make us more sensitive to the poor and disenfranchised (remember what James identifies as "true religion"), more drawn to Christ's model, more able to recognize our neighbors among those we despise, more loving of our enemies, then maybe we should try something else. Maybe instead of using Jesus to justify our particular biases we should situate our biases next to the model of Jesus and see what happens...

Rush and Michael Moore share a lot of the same gifts. Both are great at making comfortable people feel more comfortable. And both are great at making people more aware of distinctions and differences and less certain of their opponents' shared humanity. Jesus wasn't so good at either one of those things... But he was good at calling people--some to his grace and mercy, some to account for their hypocrisy, and all to a radical reenvisioning of themselves through lives of service and sacrifice. Sometimes his message was beautiful; other times, it was pretty hard to take. He told people what they needed to hear (as opposed to what they wanted to hear). He calls us to do the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I&#8217;m a bit stumped by you. On the one hand, you say that the sacred and the secular should be kept totally separate. It&#8217;s how you justified torture and why you said the government (&#8221;govco,&#8221; you called it) has no place in &#8220;charity&#8221; on that thread the other day. But then here you selectively decide that in SOME cases, you expect &#8220;Christian values&#8221; out of people on the secular side&#8211;praising Rush because he&#8217;s theoretically pro-life (except when it comes to war, of course, or capital punishment, or the poor, or&#8230;.) and then slamming Katie Couric because she&#8217;s &#8220;pro CHOICE.&#8221; </p>
<p>So what&#8217;s your story? It looks like you&#8217;re merely justifying your own biases by selectively decrying &#8220;immorality&#8221; when you disagree with somebody&#8217;s politics and saying &#8220;it&#8217;s totally separate&#8221; when your folks violate ethical standards (for example, Rush&#8217;s drug use, cheating on his various wives, illegally tampering with prescriptions, etc.). I&#8217;m sorry to be so confrontational here, but I&#8217;m tired of seeing the pretense of moral indignation that keeps masquerading as theological or ethical concern in these threads. So what do you really believe? I just want you to be honest about when you&#8217;re applying a standard and when you&#8217;re willing to let it slide. And, by the way, I&#8217;d also like to suggest that a double-standard is no standard at all. </p>
<p>And what Belinda wrote is true: according to a non-partisan study by the University of Maryland, those who got their news from Fox were more than 3 times more likely (80% of viewers vs. 23% in the most extreme example) to hold inaccurate perceptions of the facts of the Iraq war (for example, they were more likely to believe that weapons of mass destruction had been found; they haven&#8217;t according to all of the military commanders) than those who got their news from other media sources. Fox viewers were twice as likely to hold inaccurate perceptions as those who got their news from CNN. The people with the most accurate perception? Those who got their news from NPR/PBS. You can check out the study yourself at . </p>
<p>Why should this difference in perceptions occur? Could it be that Fox really isn&#8217;t delivering the same quality of information as the other sources? Nah. That can&#8217;t be it. It must be some liberal conspiracy&#8230;</p>
<p>Do you want to know the real story? CNN, Katie Couric, and the rest are generally &#8220;moderate&#8221; (though understandably next to Fox they look &#8220;far left&#8221;). They may not hold the same moral values as all or even as most Christians. But Tim, you said that we needed to keep those things separate on that other thread. So I&#8217;ll hold you at your word on that. If you want to keep Jesus out of it and just talk politics, let&#8217;s do that: Rush is not a moderate. He&#8217;s on the right (though not the traditional right since he&#8217;s unconcerned about spiralling deficits, mismanagement of government resources, the rule of law, and most of the other issues held by traditional conservatives; technically, he&#8217;s a &#8220;neo-conservative,&#8221; but my guess is he&#8217;d throw that over too if it didn&#8217;t make him cash). And he does have a counterpart on the left&#8211;but it&#8217;s not Dan Rather. It&#8217;s Michael Moore.</p>
<p>(And, by the way, to all of you suggesting people should just listen to Rush for 6 weeks to &#8220;get him,&#8221; I&#8217;d like to make a counterproposal: I&#8217;ll do it if you&#8217;ll watch all of Michael Moore&#8217;s movies one-per-day for that same period&#8211;though my guess is that neither one of us will really benefit from that since listening to people at the outer poles of an argument rarely brings people toward consensus in the middle).</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s an even better proposal: Unlike some here, I don&#8217;t think you can keep the sacred and secular separate. I believe that Jesus is lord of all things&#8211;including our politics, our government, our structures of justice, our culture&#8230; everything. So I&#8217;m not content to apply standards only sporadically. Here&#8217;s what I propose: Let&#8217;s situate Rush and Michael (and Katie and Dan and Fox News and CNN and the Republicans and the Democrats and everything else) next to the witness of Jesus for 6 weeks and see how THEY hold up. If they don&#8217;t equally make us more sensitive to the poor and disenfranchised (remember what James identifies as &#8220;true religion&#8221;), more drawn to Christ&#8217;s model, more able to recognize our neighbors among those we despise, more loving of our enemies, then maybe we should try something else. Maybe instead of using Jesus to justify our particular biases we should situate our biases next to the model of Jesus and see what happens&#8230;</p>
<p>Rush and Michael Moore share a lot of the same gifts. Both are great at making comfortable people feel more comfortable. And both are great at making people more aware of distinctions and differences and less certain of their opponents&#8217; shared humanity. Jesus wasn&#8217;t so good at either one of those things&#8230; But he was good at calling people&#8211;some to his grace and mercy, some to account for their hypocrisy, and all to a radical reenvisioning of themselves through lives of service and sacrifice. Sometimes his message was beautiful; other times, it was pretty hard to take. He told people what they needed to hear (as opposed to what they wanted to hear). He calls us to do the same.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JT</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15366</link>
		<dc:creator>JT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15366</guid>
		<description>Oh man... the things we "debate" over must truly be laughable to God above.  Either that or so so sad... either way, could we rise above this and move towards Jesus together... from both sides of the aisle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh man&#8230; the things we &#8220;debate&#8221; over must truly be laughable to God above.  Either that or so so sad&#8230; either way, could we rise above this and move towards Jesus together&#8230; from both sides of the aisle?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15362</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15362</guid>
		<description>Belinda, let me rephrase that for you:

"Chis Matthews scares me. As does Dan Rather. And CNN. Ever notice that folks that regularly listen to these folks and this network are adamant about only listening to them. It’s like if they listen to another network, they might hear things (truth) that they don’t want to hear."

What truth are you talking about?  The "truth" that Dan Rather and CBS came up with that was proven false?  Sure, Fox does lean to the right.  They are ONE network.  One.  How many others are out there?and just about all of them lean to the left so take your pick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Belinda, let me rephrase that for you:</p>
<p>&#8220;Chis Matthews scares me. As does Dan Rather. And CNN. Ever notice that folks that regularly listen to these folks and this network are adamant about only listening to them. It’s like if they listen to another network, they might hear things (truth) that they don’t want to hear.&#8221;</p>
<p>What truth are you talking about?  The &#8220;truth&#8221; that Dan Rather and CBS came up with that was proven false?  Sure, Fox does lean to the right.  They are ONE network.  One.  How many others are out there?and just about all of them lean to the left so take your pick.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Belinda</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15357</link>
		<dc:creator>Belinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15357</guid>
		<description>Rush scares me.  As does Ann Coultor.  And FOX news.  Ever notice that folks that regularly listen to these folks and this network are adamant about only listening to them.  It's like if they listen to another network, they might hear things (truth) that they don't want to hear.  

And why does everyone take a "right" or "left" approach these days?  You're right - it didn't use to be that way.  It's very sad when politics is so rampant in the church.  One of my favorites is "Morality Matters - Vote Republican."  That makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  This is from a website of a christian.  I find it very offensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rush scares me.  As does Ann Coultor.  And FOX news.  Ever notice that folks that regularly listen to these folks and this network are adamant about only listening to them.  It&#8217;s like if they listen to another network, they might hear things (truth) that they don&#8217;t want to hear.  </p>
<p>And why does everyone take a &#8220;right&#8221; or &#8220;left&#8221; approach these days?  You&#8217;re right - it didn&#8217;t use to be that way.  It&#8217;s very sad when politics is so rampant in the church.  One of my favorites is &#8220;Morality Matters - Vote Republican.&#8221;  That makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  This is from a website of a christian.  I find it very offensive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15343</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15343</guid>
		<description>Sorry...that was supposed to be that Katie joins in Pro- CHOICE marches.  Brain going too fast once again.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry&#8230;that was supposed to be that Katie joins in Pro- CHOICE marches.  Brain going too fast once again.  <img src='http://preachermike.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15342</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Sep 2006 23:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15342</guid>
		<description>...and let's hope we don't take up Katies causes of joining in Pro-Life marches and helping to set up legal defense funds for Andrea Yates.

JM, I thought the same thing when Mike posted that about Rush.  It's quite funny how people would blast Rush then go on to praise people like Rather, Couric, NPR and the like as if they can do no wrong either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and let&#8217;s hope we don&#8217;t take up Katies causes of joining in Pro-Life marches and helping to set up legal defense funds for Andrea Yates.</p>
<p>JM, I thought the same thing when Mike posted that about Rush.  It&#8217;s quite funny how people would blast Rush then go on to praise people like Rather, Couric, NPR and the like as if they can do no wrong either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: KentF</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15338</link>
		<dc:creator>KentF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15338</guid>
		<description>Well, if Ann Coulter said it -  it must be true.   Let's just hope we don't see churches implementing Ann's evangelism methods - you know, shoot all the radicals and force everyone else to be Christian by gunpoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if Ann Coulter said it -  it must be true.   Let&#8217;s just hope we don&#8217;t see churches implementing Ann&#8217;s evangelism methods - you know, shoot all the radicals and force everyone else to be Christian by gunpoint.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JM</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15335</link>
		<dc:creator>JM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15335</guid>
		<description>Katie Couric was promoted here, so why not Rush?  Katie is as liberal as Rush is conservative.

Regarding Couric, one observer noted: "Katie Couric is the perfect fit for a newtwork that condones fabricating news to fit their agenda."

Ann Coulter was right when she referred to Couric as the “affable Eva Braun of morning TV…she hides behind her Girl Scout persona in order to systematically promote a left-wing agenda.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katie Couric was promoted here, so why not Rush?  Katie is as liberal as Rush is conservative.</p>
<p>Regarding Couric, one observer noted: &#8220;Katie Couric is the perfect fit for a newtwork that condones fabricating news to fit their agenda.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ann Coulter was right when she referred to Couric as the “affable Eva Braun of morning TV…she hides behind her Girl Scout persona in order to systematically promote a left-wing agenda.”</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: KentF</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15314</link>
		<dc:creator>KentF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15314</guid>
		<description>Certainly sorry I even typed Rush two days ago -- and I thought we were talking about Terry Rush! - now there's someone to talk about.  Rush Limbaugh seems to be a miserably unhappy person to me.  Numerous failed marriages, weekend jet-set trips with a full bottle of Viagra - he certainly needs prayer - as do we all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly sorry I even typed Rush two days ago &#8212; and I thought we were talking about Terry Rush! - now there&#8217;s someone to talk about.  Rush Limbaugh seems to be a miserably unhappy person to me.  Numerous failed marriages, weekend jet-set trips with a full bottle of Viagra - he certainly needs prayer - as do we all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Field</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15312</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Field</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15312</guid>
		<description>At this rate, we can only hope so, Mike...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At this rate, we can only hope so, Mike&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15310</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Sep 2006 13:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/09/22/community-and-mission#comment-15310</guid>
		<description>Rush Limbaugh promoted on my blog.

The eschaton must be near.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rush Limbaugh promoted on my blog.</p>
<p>The eschaton must be near.  <img src='http://preachermike.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
