My friend Ryan Porche introduced me to this picture of the new statue in front of a Memphis church. The Statue of Liberty holding a huge cross with the words “liberty through Jesus.”
My response? First, I’d have to say that I don’t know anything about the church, and I’m sure it’s made up of people seeking the Way of Christ in this world.
However, I’m not sure it could be said better than Randall Balmer does in his excellent new book Thy Kingdom Come: An Evangelical’s Lament
I came to Texas in search of Baptists. What irony! There at the heart of Baptist country, Baptist principles regarding the separation of church and state have all but disappeared. What was once a proud and mighty — and defining — tradition of ensuring that government did not interfere with religion and religion did not meddle with government has withered beneath the onslaughts of misguided individuals who seek to impose their own views on the rest of society. The gospel is compromised, American Protestantism is imperiled, and the republic itself suffers from the massive disappearance of Baptists from the American landscape.
Never in my life did I think I would say this, but America needs more Baptists — real Baptists, not counterfeit Baptists like Roy Moore or Rick Scarborough or Richard Land or Jerry Falwell, all of whom are Baptists in name only. Our nation loses something very crucial as Baptists vanish from the American landscape. “The Baptists were the first propounders of absolute liberty,” John Locke once observed, “just and true liberty, equal and impartial liberty.”
Christianity itself needs more Baptists, women and men willing to reconnect with the scandal of the gospel and not chase after the chimera of state sanction. We need women and men prepared to stand on conviction and articulate the faith in the midst of a pluralistic culture, not by imposing their principles on the remainder of society but by following the example of Jesus and doing what Baptists have always done best: preaching the gospel and not lusting after temporal power and influence.
Wow. Words fail me.
I like that last paragraph.
No matter their reason for erecting the statue, it’s too much for me. The whole church/state in bed together thing is too much for me. We have enough on our heads to try and just be the church without adding in the attempt to try and run the state with the same ideals/principals, etc.
Personal opinion - I believe Jesus would walk up to it…and push it over, and tell these Memphisians to go shelter the homeless, feed the poor and befriend the oppressed.
Off the subject . . . but a couple days ago a great link got buried in the comments section. Thanks to Stephen for leaving it. It’s about little league baseball and the decision one team’s coaches made. (It should be pointed out that this decision was undoubtedly made without much time to really think about it.) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/rick_reilly/08/07/reilly0814/index.html
Balmer hit this one out of the park!
Symbols are so powerful and are so easily distorted. As a piece of art, it is interesting to not that Lady Liberty is proportionally so much larger than the tablet representing the “Ten Commandments” or the “cross.” The statue is out of context. O
Mike - I keep looking at your banner & thinking “What if all those people walking to the cross finally got there, only to find that if they looked down the hill, they would see that statue instead?”
Ooops. I hit the wrong button!
The statue is out of context. On Ellis Island the Statue of Liberty welomes the world to New York. In front of the church by holding a cross almost like a weapon, she looks like she is about to become Carrie at the prom.
Balmer’s book is a real gem. I especially liked his chapter on Evangelicals and the environment. He is going to be a regular blogger on a new web site called Faithful Democrats that will be rolling out soon.
Hey Mike, I posted this picture and the facts surrounding it on my blog back in July. The NYTimes did a piece on it. I smarted off in my comment about “how I miss the South.” The comments to follow in my July 5 post are interesting.
Funny…I was just writing about how the “religious right” has been using the leglislative process to their advantage (imho DISadvantage) yesterday….
Very, very timely.
Just one small note - some people use this same argument of separation of church and state to say that faithbased groups should not receive federal, state, or local gov’t funding. If that thinking held up, our county would not have any homeless shelters. hmmmm?
Based on the following, extended excerpt from Balmer’s recent column in the Chronicle of Higher Education, he seems to be just as caustic, mean & gratuitously pugilistic as the ones he purports to undress with his arguments. Is there not another way to serve as an apologist for political independence of the church than to adopt the in-your-face posture that Michael Moore and Ann Coulter have made so infamous? Balmer revels in being the Wheaton Baptists’ bete noire, it would seem, out of a seething, subcutaneous contempt for the religious right (or some caricature thereof):
“I doubt very much that I will be invited back to Edman Chapel. One of the benefits of being reared within evangelicalism, I suppose, is that you understand the workings of the evangelical subculture. I know, for example, that when my new book on evangelicals appears, the minions of the religious right will seek to discredit me rather than engage the substance of my arguments. The initial wave of criticism, as an old friend who has endured similar attacks reminded me, will be to deny that I am, in fact, really an evangelical Christian. When that fails — and I’ll put up my credentials as an evangelical against anyone’s! — the next approach will be some gratuitous personal attack: that I am a member of the academic elite, spokesman for the Northeastern establishment, misguided liberal, prodigal son, traitor to the faith, or some such. Another evangelical friend with political convictions similar to mine actually endured a heresy trial.
The evangelical subculture, which prizes conformity above all else, doesn’t suffer rebels gladly, and it is especially intolerant of anyone with the temerity to challenge the shibboleths of the religious right. I understand that. Despite their putative claims to the faith, the leaders of the religious right are vicious toward anyone who refuses to kowtow to their version of orthodoxy, and their machinery of vilification strikes with ruthless, dispassionate efficiency.”
Aside from the deep ironies, Balmer just sounds bitter and hateful.
qb
QB - I didn’t think the tone of the book ever had a Coulter/Moore tone. Perhaps I don’t know the whole story.
Balmer is an editor-at-large for Christianity Today and is widely respected (if not always agreed with!) for his Christian views and character.
Has anyone read his book with Lauren Winner called Protestantism in America?
I think I’m gonna be sick. As Bill Maher said, I guess the giant statue would come in handy against a giant vampire.
MommyHAM: do all shelters in your county really rely on gov’t money? Sounds like a job for. . . SUPERCHURCH!
MommyHAM - A good question. Maybe Larry James, who lives in the world of faith-based initiatives, can weigh in here. (By the way, there is some helpful guidance in Balmer’s book.)
The statue is certainly over the top, and that church is doing itself, and our faith, a great disservice by displaying it so prominently.
However, the concern of many Christians (including those Balmer seeks to denigrate in his book) is that the fight for separation of church and state is becoming an infringment on the free exercise of our faith. I am not an advocate for the Ten Commandments in state buildings, or crosses in schools. But when a young lady is silenced because she mentions Jesus in her commencement speech, things have gone too far.
I agree with qb — Balmer seems to have a genuine hatred for evangelicals on the right. He complains about their personal attacks, intolerance, viciousness and ruthlessness. And then he turns around and does the same thing. Jesus had a word for that.
If Democrats who are Christians, create all of these coalitions (I am aware that many exist already), will not they become the very thing they detest? I think many Christians on either side of the political spectrum are fighting the wrong enemy.
Mockery is the word that comes to my mind! This statue makes a mockery of the foundation of our faith, the Cross of Jesus, as well as a mockery of the symbol of American spirit. Neither is served by this silly statute and both are denigrated by it, imho.
Falwell and Robertson, in particular, have become huge stumbling blocks for those we’d pray to reach with the true gospel. They are held up as “model” Christians - off putting to so many that they cannot hear the truth of Jesus and His love for us. This statue isn’t going to help us any at all, imho.
Mommyham is correct, as is in my experience always true! Not all, but most shelters depend on some public money. The notion of “SuperChurch” swooping in to save the day is one we need to get over. Churches can play a role, but people who continue to believe they will solve the problems or even adequately address them at this scale are not in touch with the realities of poverty. Besides, we are the govt! Why would I not want some of my tax dollars flowing back to my community through the hands of local folks, many of them doing what they do because of their faith? Makes no sense to me.
Question: wonder what the majority position is in that Memphis church on immigration policy. Let’s not forget the meaning of Lady Liberty. “Send me your tired, etc. . .”
Balmer nails it. And, I might add, what we need are not only true, free church Baptists, we need to find a bunch more solid, Nixonian Republicans! Maybe then we could get on with the work of building a more just America and at the same time find creative and sensible and humble ways to talk to the world, including our enemies.
I’d better stop!
As a citizen of Memphis, I think the statue was a bad idea. My reasons have nothing to do with the separation of church and state or right wing evangelicals. Most members of the church that erected the statue are NOT right wing evangelicals. My problems with the statue is that Memphis is one of the poorest cities in the country and $250,000 would help a lot of those hurting people.
As a “member of the Church of Christ” I find it almost as bad of an idea that the largest C of C in the city is leaving the middle of the city and moving to the suburbs so they can build a $10 million dolloar building. What ministries could be done with $10 million?? Why not do a church plant and still keep a church ministering to the city? Doesn’t the city need the church too?
Thanks Larry, for backing me.
Yes, in Larimer County Colorado, home of Ft. Collins - Money Magazine’s #1 “Best Place to Live,” (I sound like an ad, don’t I - it’s just REALLY funny to me but I digress) we have a couple of different shelter options, and with the exception of our Domestic Violence shelter, they are all Faith Based Groups.
We have:
Catholic Charities Northern
Loveland-Berthoud Interfaith Hospitality Network
(IHN is a nat’l model, also called “Family Promise” in some places and is the closest, imho, we’ve got to what a lot of folks envision churches SHOULD be doing)
and the Open Door Mission (this one to date, operates w/o public/tax dollars, but that’s hugely apparent in the treatment of persons staying there)
So, let me rattle off the different types of public aid these folks receive that I’m aware of:
ESG = HUD’s Emegency Shelter Grant program; Federal $
CDBG = HUD’s Community Development Block Grant program; Federal $’s awarded to municipalities on an entitlement formula, which is then awarded out by the municipalities (this is what I do for a living for the City of Loveland) - also our current President has tried to radically reduce and/or eliminate this program for the past 3 years. Thanks be to Congress’ check and balance for keeping it existing.
HSC = Human Services Commission Grant Program; municipal grant program funded by the City’s general fund (sales tax revenues) - again I work this program
EFSP - Emergency Food and Shelter Program - The County doles this out, but I forget what source it comes from, state or federal.
There are many, many more public dollar ties to these operations - If ya’ll would like more information, let me know
Oh Griffith, hear hear!! I said pretty much the same thing this morning on my blog in response. Sad, isn’t it?
Personally I think the statue is a good thing. It gives the terrorist a target in which they can “get two birds with one stone” and no one gets hurt.
While I find many of Balmer’s points justifiable and worthy of further discussion, his tone often undermines his ability to make his points among those who most need to think through his arguments.
If you want to change a Baptist’s mind about something, maybe it would be easier if you didn’t start out by punching Richard Land or Roy Moore in the face!
Once again we find that having good content is not enough. Presentation is important as well.
The statue is in my opinion some pretty funky art. Too bad resources were used in such a fashion. In Modesto, our most consistant Homeless Resource is faith based, but the two others each rely on government funding to survive. One is funded by the city and ran by the Salvation Army.
Mommyham mentioned IHN. Our IHN week starts Sunday when we welcome 11 homeless to our building for the week. What a great program. We could not take care of these folks all the time ut we can take care of them once every ten weeks. Helping alongside other faith groups was uncomfortable at first, but all have a common goal. letting Jesus be seen through hands on touch.
sorry for forgetting the b in but above.
1. The statue is a deperate act indicating the end of something is near. It appears that perhaps what we are seeing is that republivangelicals have finally overplayed their hand.
2. The little league baseball story: Yes, walk the guy and you’ve got good baseball strategy. However, at 10 years old, I think that there are more important lessons to learn. Keep the strategy for at least teenagers.
Furthermore, in an “everyone hits” league, strategy should not be a primary motivator. If strategy is your goal, don’t play ball in an everyone hits league since everyone hitting is bad strategy.
I think the statue is a barrier to those who may hold different political views. It is already intemidating for people to go to church. The great things about our liberty is to right to disagree. The right to express and have differing views, oppions even in Christ. I wonder if the church that has this statue is stictly republican? I wonder if they would welcome the imigrants, the poor, the tired, those with differing polotical oppinions and beliefs.
I think it is sad that so many Christians make other Christians feel like they have to have the same oppions and views (especially polotically) to be a Christian.
If Paul were speaking to the church today his message to the church might sound like: “For there is neither slave or free, male or female, white or african american or hispanic, jew or arab, democrat, or republican for we are all one in Christ Jesus.” Now that is liberation in Jesus Christ. Understanding that God’s love and grace looks beyond social class, race, and even polotical lines is a wonderful thing for us as Christians to understand as we experience ture liberation in Jesus.
I am so thankful that we do have seperation of church and state because I don’t want the government telling me what I can and can not preach. That is the great thing about living in America. Freedom of expression and speech isn’t it a great blessing we enjoy.
Of course SuperChurch is a myth, but so is SuperGov’t. It would be great if more gov’t money went to alleviate the effects of poverty, but as of now, we are spending billions on quite possibly the stupidest war in US history. (And anyone who is naive enough to think “we” are the gov’t, needs a history lesson and a current events lesson!) And when did people of God begin relying on gov’t (or the church’s business management team) to do good works? If gov’t money is there use it, if it’s not don’t rely on it.
And no, churches won’t solve the problem of poverty and neither will gov’t.–God hasn’t even solved the problem. When is someone going to admit there is no solution to poverty? As a wise man once reminded us, we will always have the poor. Doesn’t mean we aren’t moved with compassion to alleviate pain. But perhaps those organizations in the best position to alleviate that local pain is our million dollar-budgeted megaplex churches.
I thought the statue was trying to communicate the idea that real liberty is found not in a country, but Christ. Much thanks to those who’ve discerned this church’s nefarious and ulterior motives.
I think Paul addresses such a brazen rush to judgment in his epistle to the Memphisians (mem FEEZ yuns). I forget the exact chapter and verse.
I will, however, agree with the majority opinion here that the $260,000 could’ve been used for better purposes, such as a tank of gas.
Still, that statue is not the creepiest image on the Memphis skyline. The oblong billboard along I-40 featuring St. Michael disemboweling a demon or somesuch reminds me of what the art lover on Seinfeld said when he first saw the portrait entitled “The Kramer” - “He is a loathsome, offensive brute…yet I can’t look away!” For the record, the actor who plays Kramer? MICHAEL Richards. Coincidence? You decide.
If you’ll excuse me, I have some other blogs to hijack.
Hey Grant -
In your judgment of labeling us judgers and putting us in our respective places, let me rebut with Mike’s words (which most of us implicitly agree with):
My response? First, I’d have to say that I don’t know anything about the church, and I’m sure it’s made up of people seeking the Way of Christ in this world.
Don’t think that Paul would have a problem with that. We’ve not made a judgment on the church itself, but rather have commented on the feelings elicited by such a statement as that statue.
Art, on the other hand, is subjective, which by definition includes a judgment call made by the person viewing it. People are going to have feelings about it, and I think it’s a good critical thinking tool to examine all possibilities of how something could be perceived. After all, aren’t the possible perceptions of our actions to be considered before doing them? See Romans 14:13, 1 Cor.8:9, 2 Cor.6:3, and 1Thess 5:22 (particularly the KJV, with “appearance” being in there).
Just my reading of the whole post, and comments, for what it’s worth
Naw…that ain’t reals.
This is just your photoshop joke.
Right?…right?
Agent B, unfortunately it is for real. The church, World Overcomers Outreach, calls it the “Statue of Liberation Through Christ.”
My issue with the statue is not so much the separation of church/state issue as it is what a quarter of a million dollars could do in this community. I see it as a terrible waste of money that could have been used in much more beneficial ways.
Funny I just finished Baptist History in America from Jerry Fallwell’s School (Liberty University) and not a single time did the professor mention Balmer or the fact that Falwell was not a real Baptist. I wonder if Falwell even knows that he is not what he claims to be.
I know it’s a little dangerous to quote the prophets these days without incurring massive misunderstanding. Even so, this syncretic monstrosity reminds me of Daniel 2, and not in a good way.
Jeremy,
Did Falwell mention that the Teletubbie’s or Bert and Ernie are gay in his class? Did he talk about how 9/11 happened because of America’s exceptance of homosexuality? I believe statements that he has made and makes, makes Christians look stupid in the eyes of the world. We should strive not to be a good baptist’s like Balmer mentions or whatever denomonation your from but Christian men and women who glorify God and make a difference in his church and the world. Statues aren’t going to change people or make a difference in the life of a person. What changes lives is Jesus Christ lived out of the individuals that make up his church. Christian’s showing God’s grace, love, mercy to the world one person at a time.
Who is Art and why are you accusing him of being subjective?
Art isn’t what’s being judged here. It’s the hearts/minds/theology of those who built it.
It seems to me that you can’t say “I’m sure they’re nice people,” then proceed to rip them.
While I appreciate the spirit of the passage quoted, I don’t believe we are going to attain those goals while tossing labels (counterfeit) onto the spotlit folks with whom we disagree. If we are going to articulate our faith to others, we can scare afford such judgmental monikers lest our selfish imposition of our displeasure distract from the REAL scandal of the Gospel.
I wonder whether it wouldn’t help evangelicals to be at peace about this issue (and to stop confusing church and state symbolism in such horrendous ways) if we stopped focusing so much on the separation or non-separation of church and state, about wanting a Christian nation, etc. and instead focused more on being Christians.
To a degree, separation is desireable to preserve religious freedom. To a degree, non-separation will happen because Christians cannot split their spiritual and public personalities. What else, truly, is there to say about this?
I don’t know about everyone else, but to me this discussion seems mainly to have become an excuse by either side to feel superior.
Perhaps it would help if instead we came up with a proper, thought-through understanding of how Christians should act as citizens of a state in a way that combines the necessity of atheism of the state with the necessity of being a Christian actively, even politically involved in that state, but not trying to be Christian via the state.
Grant,
Is it that we Christians want America to be a Christian nation so bad that we are trying to force our views on others, by statements such as this statue?
Theological matter, definately.
What if passages from koran was on the building of our court houses, how would that make us feel as Christians? Or hindu verse, what if you walked into a government building that had statue of budda as you walked in? How would that make you feel? As disciples we learn from Jesus a man who wasn’t in your face or trying to force his views but demonstrated it by love and grace of God one person at a time. Healing the blind, deaf, crippled, offering hope to the hopless, forgiveness, acceptance, value one person at a time.
We are a nation that is built on freedom of religion, separation of church and state is a must in order for that to occur.
Hmmm. This whole thread has made me rethink our church’s plan to build a 72-foot statue of Jesus holding a copy of the Declaration of Independence.
I’m always amazed when Mike posts anything political. It truly brings out the worst in bloggers! People use “Christian” words in a tone that comes across as very “unGodly”. Which might be just as confusing as this statue.
As for this piece of art???? It’s odd, strange, has some proportion problems, hopefully went way over budget (surely they didn’t know it would cost this much), BUT also causes one to think (I’ll agree that some of the thoughts aren’t positive). So bottom line is that this church and it’s leadership will ultimately have to answer to the “reasons” when they meet God Almighty face to face. Ultimately not my problem…..weird art, but not my problem.
It always bothers me that everyone starts “typing loudly” about helping the sick and the needy and looking to the government to do that. We’ve had so many years and so many generations of proving that the government is simply not capable of handling this part of life on such a grand scale.
Here are the questions I fear we will have to answer one day. “Why didn’t you use the money I gave you more wisely?
Why did you keep insisting that the government care for the needy and poor when it was obvious that they couldn’t or wouldn’t?
Why did you give that control over to the government?
Don’t you know each of you had the ability to help one?”
We want a seperation of church and state, yet we want to insist that the state do the work of the church. God didn’t give a charge to the goverments of the world to feed the hungry and the needy. He gave that charge to us…His followers. We want to complain that the government isn’t doing enough, yet we waste our time complaining about it instead of just doing it ourselves. We spin our wheels organizing this group and that group isn’t nearly as effective as doing what Mother Teresa said, “Feed one.”
God help us to be more attentive to the needs of the needy and less attentive to our own desires to be right….or left.
Mark, hahahah - thanks for the humor
Grant, again, I see what you are saying, but I still don’t buy what you’re selling.
If we are not able to have discourse (including disagreements about how a church is/isn’t doing something), why then was Paul quoted so many times as calling the Judaizer “Christians” this name or that? Seems to me he didn’t mince words and it seems to me that had I been in that party of thought, it would have come across quite judgmentally. He could have thought these Christians were “nice people” all he wanted, but when it came down to it, they were adding/deleting to the gospel of Christ and he was very heavyhanded about saying so. I see a parallel that perhaps you don’t.
Jody, I too agree that content should be weighed heavily when “packaging” it, lest it all be for naught. Sure things can be toned down, but then again, does it lose its shock value, through which many conversations are initiated? A fine balancing act I say.
Jonathan R. - totally agree with your comments!
It bothers me when folks say “well, we’ve spent all this money on poverty over the past 50 years, and, we still have poverty - what a waste”.
I guess my reply is.. we’ve collectively spent hundreds of billions of dollars on church buildings over the past hundred years. Are we any more spiritual?
I believe the point is that we’ve over looked ways to use God’s money more effectively. You are right, in implying that money does not solve problems. But it sure can be a tool in solving the problems. We just have to join the money with other effective tools, which in my opinion don’t include the government. I believe with one comment that we will probably always have poverty, but it’s up to Christians to seek God’s will for effectively using the wealth he has given us and truly helping the needy.
The excessive usage of money for an object that won’t provide the needs of the people of Memphis bothers me. The huge monument being constructed in front of ACU’s campus also bothers me. I’m not sure who is paying for it, hopefully not the school which has had financial difficulty keeping instructional departments open (industrial tech?) the past few years, but I am not sure building monuments to ones own accompllishments (I was told it is to commemorate the schools 100 years of existence) is the proper thing to do.
Yes I am an ACU grad and I liked my time there.
Kelley,
Do you know how hard it is for people in need to ask for it? And when they do to have the church turn you down or judge you because of it. How many churches are judgemental to those who do need help. Making comments like: benevolence why do we need more money on benevolence when all they do is take advantage of the church. Poor people are just a bunch lazy bums, why don’t they just get a job. Be a man, take care of your family. I can’t believe those people don’t have money for diapers but they have money for smokes and drinks. Why should we pay their bills, do they really need electricity? All they do is sit at home and watch tv all day anyway. These comments and attitude of Christians in many churches across the country. Not all (and I repeat not all churches and christians) thank God but many Christians and churches have this mindset.
And how many ministers are on government assistance because the chruches don’t pay enough or can’t. How many domestic missionary’s have sought funds and have been turned down from churches who’s budgets are $50,000 a week and committees, elderships at churches don’t want to spend on domestic missionarys or preachers because they fail to see America as a misson field?
While some ministers make $100,000 a year others are in desporate need making way below the poverty line, so they can do what they have been called.
We need to realize we aren’t the church in Acts. We aren’t give and having everything in common. Taking care of each other. We are 21st century Christians who live in a materialistic society of prideful people who aren’t willing sacrifice for the sake of the brothers and sisters in need. Time forget about it I have baseball. Money no I have to provide for my own family or go to this entertaining event.
So we must not criticize the government for what they do. We must not treat those who are recieving government assistance as 2nd class christians. I have known some Christians talking about welfare and how bad it is not knowing that the person they were speaking to was on the assistance because the church failed them or wouldn’t meet what need needed to be met.
As Christians we should take care of the poor, needy, widows, orphans, hurting, and those who need hope, espcially to the household of faith.
I went to the church’s web site and found this list of FAQ’s about the statue. Whether you agree with the method or not, I think reading this we get a clearer picture of the church’s heart. Not a bad picture either.
FAQ’s. Read the entire document before you comment on it.
http://www.thestatueofliberationthroughchrist.org/q&a.swf
Church site: http://www.worldovercomers.org/
How sad and sinful. No wonder generation after generation of people have become dependent on the government for ineffective help. We Christians haven’t answered the call.
And please remember that there is a difference between criticizing the government and realizing it’s limitations. And I certainly don’t criticize those who need help. I’ve needed help myself from time to time. Being critical of the government is certainly not being critical of the needy. For me, it’s being mindful of them.
I am of a mind that if Christians were allowed to keep control of more of money they earn, then we’d have more money to effectively give.
do WE take care of the poor? We say it’s not the responsibility of the government, but actually, how many of us actually are either financially or physically able to do it?? Same idea in stopping abortion. How many “christians” adopt children?? They adopt BABIES from everywhere, but not the older children. And killing only somes sinful when it’s in the womb. Killing soldiers in an unjust battle doesn’t seem to count. Oh dear, I’m getting on my soapbox. . .
the Bible says there is ONE church . . . if we believe that, how are we so accepting of worshipping at the church of your choice? I was raised in the CoC and used to believe we were the only ones taught that, but as I’ve gotten older, I realize it’s taught in almost every church. That’s why the CoC is losing members.
Martin F., take a look at Deut. 15:1-11–the text Jesus quotes when he refers to the “poor being with us always.” The cause for that reality is simple: the people of God don’t obey his commandments about the poor and, even more, about how to structure an economy. The goal is to have no poor among us and it will be possible according to Yahweh “if we are careful to obey all God’s commandments.”
The real question is…
Am “I” doing all I can, or just being critical?
Only we can answer that question of ourselves.
Over the years I haven’t always done all I could do. I am ashamed and have asked God’s forgiveness. I have made changes in my own life to try to do more and have asked God to open my eyes to those in my own family and circle of contact. I can’t feed the world, but I can help those who I have contact with. Isn’t that what God calls us to do?
If just those of us who discussed this today each helped one, we’d be doing a lot.
Quotes from Mother Teresa that have helped me…
~The first step to becoming is to will it.
~When a poor person dies of hunger it hasn’t happened because God didn’t take care of them. It happened because neither you or I wanted to give them what they needed.
~In life we cannot do great things, we can do small things with love.
~If you can’t feed a hundred people, then just feed one.
~Do not wait on leaders; do it alone, person to person.
Our Hispanic Minister Walter Leonard has been admitted to a local hospital in Modesto, he has had a stroke. He is attentive but having problems with muscles not working from the waste down and has acute droopiness on the left side. We covet your prayers for him today and in the coming days
I personally would have preferred to see Lady Liberty bent over bearing a cross on her back…
I live in Memphis. For what it is worth this statue was put up by a church known for its support of generally liberal Democrats. To me it is their business how they spend their money, but to me it is just plain ugly and pointless. I am far more concerned by the desertion of the largest Church of Christ in Memphis for the burbs, and that their preacher who pushed the move is now teaching at OCC. I am sure there are good reasons, but I haven’t heard them yet.
Richard, Maybe because ministry in the burbs isn’t as messy as it can be in the inner city. But I join you in your concern. It is to the inner city folks that Jesus went to the most frequently. The absence of God’s light in the heart of our cities cries out for the presence of His Church. I’m sorry to hear about the defection and the huge amounts of monies that will be sent on new buildings. Is that really any worse than this statue? Our buildings, this statue et al can turn into 21st century idols if we’re not very careful, at least imho.
HaHaHa,
Grant got rebutted! Judge not less you be rebutted. A cyber rebut I might add. Or an “e-but” if you will.
Give me a rebut or give me death.
Give me cricket…
What about building a 4 million dollar building on the 400 block of Highland.
Some people find this offensive, a waste of money and not on message.
Preacherman (If that is your real name) ;’)
No Jerry Falwell didn’t teach the class, so there was nothing about Teletubbie’s or Bert and Ernie or 9/11 or even Balmer.
I am not defending Falwell or anyone else, heck I am not even baptist. But what does it matter if someone else make a joke out of Christiaity. I am not responsible for them I am responsible for the way that I make Jesus look. I believe that you can call people names, gripe about people, or help people.
It is a tough choice but I choose the latter.
Leland,
How many missionaries and preachers would that support across the world and america?
How many men could be trained to preach the gospel?
Have you been to Abilene, there is a church on every corner in that city.
Baker Heights, Highland, North Park, North 10th and Treadway, 5th and Grape, Westgate, Woodlawn, Hillcrest, Southern Thrills (I mean Hills), Minda street, Minter Lane, New Life, Northwest, Oakland Dr, Oakridge, Oldham Lane, 17th and Mesquite, Slavic World, South 14th and Willis, Hope church of Christ, University, Wylie, Tye, Abilene Christian church, Not to mention new churches of christ goes up all over the place, and all the anti-churches who think it is wrong to advertise.
Also not listed is the many Christian churches and every denomination you can imagine.
Churches in Abilene remind me of fast food a McDonalnds goes up and Burger King goes across the street.
A church of Christ goes up and a baptist or non-denomination church goes up across from it. Or another church of Christ doesn’t agree or like the one on the street and so another church of Christ goes down the road.
Does Abilene need a 4,000,000 dollar church?
Personally, when I heard out the statue on the local TV news, I reacted like the Charismatic preacher in the movie The Apostle when he enncountered the Episcopal priests blessing the shrimp boats. This is not my way of doing God’s will. I wouln’t have done this. But we re all flawed humans trying in various ways to present God’s word the best we can. God bless all those whose hearts are even turned a little bit toward Him.
God bless those people in Memphis who are at least doing something, I may not agree with what they are doing but I am thankful that they are attempting to respond to the mesage.
John the Baptist was criticized for speaking against the culture as an outsider, Jesus was criticized the same way for being a cultural insider. Jesus didn’t speak against John but he did have some words for those who were doing the criticizing.
I said it was their money, but I didn’t say I liked. To me it looks silly and above all very tacky. After I have slept on it I realize that I was probably too hard with my words against the big Memphis church that is moving.
Leland, by way of explanation, IIRC the “”4M church was an expansion of a long-established church whose Elders and members decided best to expand in the needy neighborhood where they had been located for 3-4 decades - rather than moving completely to a new facility in the more affluent southern part of the city.
Also, that congregation has been faithful in utilizing the expansion for services to the neighborhood, including feeding over 600 every Wednesday and assistance to the needy whenever the opportunity allows, drug and alcohol rehabilitation, outreach by neighborhood walkers, just to name a few. This particular congregation, if we’re speaking of the same one, does not limit its monetary assistance to those ‘of the faith’ - rather to anyone that comes asking for help. I’m happy to announce I’m a member of said congregation!!
Kathy,
Many churches are doing this without the 4M expansion. The old gym of Highland CoC would have continued to serve this purpose nicely. 4M could have provided real “pay it forward” assistance to the neighborhood. Like job re-training, education, housing, etc.
Why not a 1M renovation of old classroom section which was falling apart?
You said:
“I’m sorry to hear about the defection and the huge amounts of monies that will be sent on new buildings. Is that really any worse than this statue? Our buildings, this statue et al can turn into 21st century idols if we’re not very careful, at least imho.”
Why doesn’t your statement implicate Highland?
Mike, on the faith-based initiatives and separation of church and state, there is no necessary conflict. It all depends on whether the community organization plays by the rules of law on the matter. We receive public money–federal, state, local–but we don’t use it to make converts or impose our faith in any respect or in any setting. In our case, this would be ture whether we received public monies or not. We are thoroughly “Franciscan” here–preach the gospel at all times, use words only when necessary.
I do take issue with how some groups carry out programs with this public money. These funds, in my opinion and in the various relevant statutes, should not be used to “establish” any religion or faith system at the expense of tax payers.
The White House Office on Community and Faith Based Initiatives has distributed relatively very little in the way of hard dollars since it was established. The funds that have been awarded have gone to organizations that work on capacity building in other community based organizations. This in my view has been a good use of these funds.
Leland, there is a huge difference in the statue and in a new building dedicated to serving a community in decline. Just re-doing such a facilitiy sends a message to the declining community that hope is still alive! I’m not into buildings, but the fact is churches don’t have members who will give $4M to social justice outreach or compassion and banks certainly don’t make loans for such!
What is important to discern is the heart of a person or a group. In this case, if I understand what you are saying, you need to look a bit deeper.
The folks who built the ridiculous statue don’t understand the Gospel, America or the work of the people of God. Their message is the point here, far more than the money. The same can be said of a compassionate church doing its best to hold its ground in a part of the city that everyone else is easily abandoning.
I know what I’m talking about here. . .our work in Dallas is largely necessary because of just such fearful flight. Thank God for those who are willing to stay, rebuild and open wide their hearts and doors to the surrounding poor.
By the way, who says the poor can’t enjoy or don’t deserve quality facilities and opportunities?
Remember that verse about Judas questioning the woman for pouring the expensive perfume over Jesus. Questioning others motives for doing things when you aren’t doing anything but being judgmental can be a problem too.
I know the Lamb will win in the end and that is all I do know.
This started as a post about nationalism, but became more about how much churches are spending that could be spent elsewhere (another good topic).
Leland, you’re right. Forty of the most godly leaders I know prayed about that very thing.
“Experts” told us to leave the center of Abilene and move down around where Beltway is. Makes sense in some ways.
But we decided to stay put in a neighborhood with great needs (as, I suppose, all neighborhoods have). Lots of poverty, illiteracy, and drugs.
What most homeowners know is that if you keep your house long enough you’ll need to pay out for upkeep. The classroom building (which dates from 1929) was not considered fit for restoration. Part of it had been condemned and closed off.
You may not like the decision that was made. Fair enough. But I thought then — and still think — it was a pretty wise one.
I am from Memphis, and have been following the story of the statue since it was announced earlier in the year. As many of you do, I find it ugly, tacky, embarrassing, and downright wrong. However…
The church that erected this statue is mostly black, middle to lower income, DEMOCRAT oriented (like many of you here), and very “COGIC” in nature (i.e. elevating the preacher and his wife to near “pope” status). I hardly think the statue is an homage to President Bush and the war on terror.
We can make fun of the statue all we want. Many here on this board, however, have not judged the STATUE, but the MOTIVES of the people behind it. Like Terry, I was instantly reminded of Judas and the other apostles questioning the anointing of Jesus with costly perfume. Their words were verbatim the comments expressed here.
I thought all of you on the liberal side of the Church of Christ were so proud of your “non-judgmentalist” attitudes… I think the church in Memphis is as wrong as can be about this statue, but they did it for the glory of Jesus (I hope). When is the last time any of us spent a quarter million dollars for the sole purpose of bringing glory to the name of Jesus?
67 comments and still going…well, Mike, thanks. One of the things I appreciate so much about this blog is that ultimately even those who comment, sometimes vehemently, on opposite sides, can arrive at the place where, on an individual level, the posts become more and more about confronting the portions of our own lives that need the scandal of the Gospel.
4 million, the Crystal Cathedral, a borrowed classroom in Eastern Europe, or under the stars in Zambia…Jesus’s words about money, power, love, sex, commitment, sin, possessions, idols…well, they’re countercultural everywhere…
Sidenote: Since I go to Highland, I can frankly say that I was even a bit surprised to see the decision to “recycle” the older buildings to be reincorporated into the new design…surprised, and thankful. As a recent recipient of literally hundreds of prayers from our elders at Highland, I would challenge any critic to come get down on his/her knees with these men in prayer before forming any further opinion…
Sidenote #2: Might the folks at Lady Liberty Brandishing Cross Church feel the same way?
I’m finally at a place in life where I’ve decided that it’s difficult to point fingers when I’m on my knees. My Lady Liberty Brandishing Cross could easily be made of all the food in the frig that I don’t eat and throw away…or the mounds of garage sale items…or the boxes of clothes on the top shelves of the closet, or the stack of unwatched DVDs or unread books, or the volume of cool air pouring into my house, or the number of chocolate shakes I’ve bought in a lifetime, or the time I waste in a day…or…or…or…
PS: Just in case mounds of junk are your Lady Libertys too, Highland has great garage sales that benefit mission teams and mission efforts around the world…and serve to challenge us to reexamine “my” hold on “my” stuff…
My thoughts in a nutshell? “Let he who is without sin cast in the first paycheck.”
Whew, that ought to bring everyone a sigh of relief!
Mike,
It did start out as post about nationalism. Then turned into motive questioning (Not by you).
I was trying to point out some people do the same thing to Highland without knowing those 40 godly men. I was trying to point out that some people might view the Highland building as a “Lady Liberty” waste of money and misplaced motive.
It is now obvious that Highland does not appreciate it.
I would say the church in Memphis doesn’t either.
How many of those 40 Godly men live within two blocks of that church? How many big contributors live within 5 blocks (not on Sayles in big house) The church building didn’t move away but did the church?
Mike,
I know that the statue appears to be making a statement about Christianity and nationalism. Perhaps it speaks that to you. But how do you know that this was the intent of the church that put it up? With all due respect, it sounds like you are using this as a touchstone to gripe about the Religious Right.
All,
“How many of those 40 Godly men live within two blocks of that church? How many big contributors live within 5 blocks (not on Sayles in big house) The church building didn’t move away but did the church?”
Was too over the top. I apologize. Please forgive.
Leland,
Apology Accepted.
Well…
My wife and I lived near the corner of Russell & Santos (1 block from Highland) for 5 years. During that time, the new building was built. I remember the months of construction very well
And I must confess…I wasn’t a fan of the new building back then. I’m not a member of Highland, so I have no right to criticize. But I did so in my heart, so please forgive me.
My wife & I live/serve as missinaries and the neighborhood around Highland is where we “cut our teeth” so to speak. We know that whole area like the back of our hand and in some ways miss it dearly. That soil around there is extremely rocky. We tilled it for 5 years, to what seemed like no avail. We saw very little fruit.
But I’m so glad Highland didn’t run for the Beltway, because that neighborhood needs yall. And when I heard a year ago that you guys were doing some sort of mass feedbag every Wed pm, my heart was overjoyed. Thanks for opening your doors and serving the neighbors.
…and don’t get discouraged if you can’t “see” any fruit yet. I’m sure it’ll come in due time.
URL: http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/state/article/0,1406,KNS_348_4818531,00.html
Church unveiling its own version of the Statue of Liberty
By Associated Press
July 3, 2006
MEMPHIS - A Memphis church on Tuesday will unveil a 72-foot-tall replica of the Statue of Liberty, except this Lady Liberty holds a cross instead of a torch.
World Overcomers Outreach Ministries Church is planning to unveil the statue that mixes Christian and American themes during a special ceremony at its 12,000-member church.
The Statue of Liberation also replaces the famous inscription with the lines “Give me your tired, your poor … ” with Roman numerals representing the Ten Commandments.
A tear falling from her right eye represents her concern for America, church pastor Apostle Alton R. Williams said.
Church members said that the Statue of Liberation shows “America belonging to God through Jesus Christ.”
The $260,000 statue isn’t welcomed by all.
Evelyn Douglass, 11, said she walks the long way home to avoid seeing the “big green thing.”
But across the street from the statue, Mapco Express manager Mary Preyer said she is looking forward to seeing it unveiled.
“I like the idea of the Statue of Liberty holding a cross representing freedom through Jesus Christ,” Preyer said.
Copyright 2006, Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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Mike,
I appreciate your post about nationalism and my husband and I are very excited about that topic being addressed at Lectureship this fall. I have been very concerned the last several years as I’ve really questioned the idol of nationalism in my own heart, and, consequently, I have had to take what might be considered some very drastic steps to uproot it.
I personally have been convicted about ideas of “my citizenship is to another kingdom” and that we seem to push using political means to accomplish Kingdom goals while I see neither Jesus nor any of His followers using that route. Paul often used his Roman citizenship to get audiences to higher-ups to spread the Gospel, not his Christian agenda. He never asked Rome to change it’s laws to reflect his morality or wrote to his followers which way to vote.
I worry a lot that Opening Chapel at ACU always concluded not with a giant cross or even the Christian flag, but with a giant US flag being dropped to cover all the other countries flags and a pounding rendition of the Star-Spangled banner, as if being in the USA is what united all the students at ACU (which, by the way, would have offended me if I was from say, Tanzania and my puny little flag was swallowed up by the giant Stars and Stripes).
I seriously question the appropriateness of Christian’s “pledging allegiance” to anything but Jesus Christ. I believe we are told in scripture to obey the authority set over us insofar as it does not contradict Christ, but we are never commanded to pledge our allegiance’s to anyone. It reminds me too much of Daniel Ch 3 and also the Christians during Domitian’s reign who were asked to bring sacrifices to the Roman gods, not to acknowledge them as true gods, but just as an act of Roman citizenship. I don’t want to get into a debate about whether or not America is a “Christian nation”. What it reminds me most of is Rome, right But I won’t plege my loyalty to any institution that might someday ask of me something against my conscience, and which boldfaced stands against God in several areas already.
Ironically enough, I don’t have a problem with govt support of the poor. I do believe it is the church’s job to take care of the poor, and having relinquished a lot of that to the govt has lost us some ground, BUT Paul did avail himself of his rights as a Roman when they served God’s purpose.
I am not judging what other people are called to do. I believe God calls each of us to what we need to do in any given situation. One elderly lady where I live, said that during both Clinton administrations she had prayed and asked God who He wanted her to vote for and both times she felt Him saying, “Clinton”. That went entirely against her understanding, especially on his abortion stance. But she was obedient both times and felt like God had told her that Clinton was to be in power as a judgment against America. Now, I didn’t come up with this and you can take it with a grain of salt. My point is: I believe Christians often vote based on their morals or beliefs and in order to support those and further those whether they be taking care of the poor or against abortion. But are we really listening to what God is asking us to do as aliens and strangers in this nation with our citizenship elsewhere. My father is a huge “good Christians vote and vote Republican” supporter. I love him dearly, but we have had many an argument about this issue. I asked him, “Did you vote for Clinton?” Which he of course answered no. So I asked, “Do you believe Clinton could have become president apart from God letting it happen or even willing it to happen?” Again, no. So then I asked, “So, you voted against God’s will?” Silence. I don’t know the answer either. There’s all kinds of crazy theological arguments tied up in that. But I have to consider it.
Maybe some of us have dual-citizenship, but after much praying, I realize I do not. It’s still a struggle though and a VERY touchy issue.
So the problem du jour in the church is nationalism. Regardless of how one feels on the issue of whether Christians can still be patriots (and participate in whatever activities patriotism would require), the propensity to point fingers appears to be timeless.
In March of 1940, an essay by C.S. Lewis entitled “Dangers of National Repentance” was published in an England periodical . In this article, Lewis discussed the tendency of the young intellectuals (especially those in the church) to “admit their own share in the guilt of England” regarding the country’s involvement in the war– by pointing fingers at everyone else. The article still seems to be relevant today; simply replace “England” or “government” with “Christians”, “The Church of Christ”, “Republicans”, “the Religious Right” or whichever group one feels is most worthy of censure:
“…When we speak of England’s actions, we really mean the actions of the British Government. The young man who is called upon to repent of England’s foreign policy is really being called upon to repent the acts of his neighbor. And repentance presupposes condemnation. ***The first and fatal charm of national repentance is, therefore, the encouragement it gives us to turn from the bitter task of repenting our own sins to the congenial one of bewailing - but, first, of denouncing - the conduct of others.*** If it were clear to the young that this is what he is doing, no doubt he would remember the law of charity. Unfortunately the very terms in which national repentance is recommended to him conceal its true nature. By a dangerous figure of speech, he calls the Government not “they” but “we”. And since, as penitents, we are not encouraged to be charitable to our own sins, not to give ourselves the benefit of any doubt, a Government which is called “we” is ipso facto placed beyond the sphere of charity or even of justice. You can say anything you please about it. You can indulge in the popular vice of detraction without restraint, and yet feel all the time that you are practising contrition. A group of such young penitents will say, “Let us repent our national sins”; what they mean is, “Let us attribute to our neighbor (even our Christian neighbour) in the Cabinet, whenever we disagree with him, every abominable motive that Satan can suggest to our fancy….”
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