“God’s definition of a real man,” Donald Miller told 900 high school guys a few years ago, “is a person with a penis.”
That’s where he landed after spending years trying to figure out — not having grown up with a father — what it means to be a man.
He kept running into definitions that left him or others out. The Promise Keepers rally he attended (much of which he liked) sold bumper stickers saying “Real Men Love Jesus.” That was just typical, he thought, of views that leave some guys out. What’s the message we’re sending to young men in our society if they don’t (yet, perhaps) love Jesus? Are they not really men?
“The rally taught me what a man does, and how loud a man must cheer, but apart from shallow bumper-sticker logic, Promise Keepers didn’t define the term. I found myself looking for a general definition. Because, if I had a general definition of a man, I would know whether or not I was one.”
He went to a men’s group at his church, but that threw him into further despair. It sounded like being a real man meant liking war movies, NASCAR, and football analogies — which he didn’t. “I couldn’t sit through men’s meetings anymore without rolling my eyes, or, at the end of prayers, sarcastically replacing the common phrase Amen with a loud and guttural Git ‘er Dun.
Here’s the tragic part of all this:
“I spent a lot of time believing I wasn’t a man because I didn’t like football analogies, or because I didn’t want to put a cheesy bumper sticker on my car, or, well, because I didn’t have a father. In a way, the guys who are promoting this approach to manhood are pretty innocent. I realize they are just trying to keep guys from yelling at their wives. But when those tactics hit my insecurities, they created a twinge. Tell a guy who grew up without a father that he is not a man unless . . . and he will automatically assume he isn’t one. I didn’t need manipulation. I needed affirmation.”
So he kept exploring: What does it mean to be a man? And he came to that simple conclusion: A real man is a person with a penis. If you have a penis, he insists, God has spoken.
You don’t have to like certain movies, you don’t have to be from Mars (or Venus — whichever it is), you don’t have to go deer hunting, you don’t have to be able to overhaul a car (whew!), you don’t have to coach baseball.
Any time we tell people that REAL MEN are a certain way (they love Braveheart or they hate shopping or they love Jesus), we are creating an environment where young men — and some not so young men — are left questioning whether or not they really belong to the group.
So there it is: a real man is a person with a penis. That’s not all it takes to be a GOOD man, for sure. But for a young man searching for his identity, it was critical to realize that God has (in the biological evidence) spoken. Trust him. “If God has spoken, then I have within me whatever it takes to do the things a man needs to do, to become a good man for a woman, for some kids, for an office, for whatever it is God wants me to do.”
(Quotes taken from To Own a Dragon
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Check out the writings of my buddy Grant Boone at www.pga.com. Move over, Rick Reilly!
A couple more great quotes from the book:
“That is the thing with kids, isn’t it? I believe God made them small and cute so we wouldn’t forget to feed them.”
(On his refusal to set an alarm clock and his preference for sleeping in): “God made the brain so it would wake on its own, and as a follower of Jesus, I am a strict adherent to His system. Call me a fundamentalist if you want.”
According to my spam, it takes more than an average penis to be a real man.
In other words, there will always be someone to say thay you can not be a real man unless….. Kind of like you are not really saved unless you…..
A few years ago I went through several retreats using the Wild at Heart theme. I tried to learn to be that warrior and have a valient heart. I am not that kind of man. I do, at least, fit this definition.
I learned a lot from the Wild at Heart about myself but part of it is just in accepting that I am to be what God made me to be and learn to be happy with that…no matter what anyone else thinks!
Glad to hear you are not swallowing the stereotypes. I have always felt the same about books and people who try to define what a woman is. I do not fit those descriptions. I hate to cook, have a graduate degree in NT, and do not think my goal in life is to marry and have children. God has something else in mind for me. He is leading me to find out.
I don’t like those comments about who real women are either. The only women who aren’t real are drag queens.
Penis and Boone in the same post…
Man, I love this blog!
I think I understand all this, but…….what do you say to my nephew who has decided that he is a homosexual. Can he say he is a real man because he has a penis? I’m not so sure. And from what I am reading in the comments, does it mean that he should accept who he is, (homosexual desires et al) while God is leading him to be what he wants him to be? I am having a hard time with all this! Can you tell?
Maybe it is because I am not a man and have not struggled with who I am as a man. I don’t know, but would like some help here.
Great post, it really does sum up a lot of things. Too many of us do get caught up in trying to live up the worlds expectations of us and lose sight of who God intended us to be.
In Max Lucado’s book “No Wonder They Call Him The Savior”, he has a chapter called “Miniature Messangers”, about the tears that where present at the cross. “Peter a burley fisherman strong enough to yank a whole net out of the sea…Now look at him, weeping, no waling, would a real man be doing that?…” John, even Jesus. “They came in the garden, I am sure they were present at the cross.” If any of you men have the book, go back and read the chapter today. Think about what Jesus has done at the cross and what makes us real men. I love how Max makes you think about the emotions that men have, how it is okay to show our emotions especially when it comes to the cross.
Mike thank you for your post.
I hope that as men we will find who we are not in the eyes of the world but in they eyes of the cross and of Jesus himself.
Peggy-
Your nephew is still a man even if he has decided that he is gay.
It’s a pleasure just to be nominated, Joel.
Is a man complete without God? If we (man or woman) are called to be in a relationship with God by following in Jesus’ footsteps and loving all people, when we don’t do that aren’t we incomplete? Perhaps it’s all a matter of language.
Mike,
I agree that the definition of a “real man” is often narrow and harmful to many. I grew up in a single family home with my mother and brothers and if it wasn’t for the church providing godly male role models I would have been in big trouble.
I think there is another issue that is more prominent and that lies underneath the questions we have about sexual identity: who and what are we? It seem like our culture is confused about who and what human beings are. This is why there is so much heated debate over abortion and stem cell research. It is also why so many little kids are fatherless and so many people are addicted to pornography. Your post caused me to write a post related to these issues–you can check it by clicking my name. I’d love to see what you think. Thanks for your thoughts.
Mike,
There was a great book growing up that was required reading for any boy in Texas. The author’s name is Shaw, and the name i=of the book was “Meat on the Hoof”. Shaw had played football for the University of Teexas back in the late 60s/early 70s and the book is about his experiences there. It was sold as a book about football. It was (and is) a book about the definition of a man. Still rings true today.
The point was and still is that you are a man by birth, not by act or deed or degree of toughness, etc.
Peggy,
Maybe he didn’t decide. Maybe he was made this way. And yes he is still a man.
Thanks for the post. Some of my thoughts…
The answer to the question what it means to be a “male” might well be answered with penis, but let’s please not settle for something so shallow and ridiculous in answering what it takes to be a “man”. The question is not about maleness, it is about what “kind” of male I should be. And though many people woefully try to express what it means to be a man, God has done a pretty good job. We should let Him speak on what kind of “male” we should be. In regard to God, a humble seeker of His heart. In regard to a wife (if he has one), one willing to love and serve sacrificially. In regard to children, one who brings them up in the Lord. In regard to business, honest and fair. The list could go on and on. God defines manhood. Let’s point people to Him in answering that question. A penis??!!
About this quote:“If God has spoken, (by giving men a penis) then I have within me whatever it takes to do the things a man needs to do, to become a good man for a woman, for some kids, for an office, for whatever it is God wants me to do.” To become what God wants me to be does not lie in the fact that I have a penis. Not all penis bearers have what it takes to be what God wants them to be. (I can’t believe this is an actual discussion!! I’m almost blushing
Try the organ a few feet higher, between the lungs.
And one last thing - real men do love Jesus! If that statement leaves some questioning whether they belong, then that is a godly discomfort. I’m not going to stop saying it because it may leave someone feeling incomplete that doesn’t love Him or isn’t sure. People need to know whether we love Jesus or not is on the final exam.
Peace!
A real man or real woman is what God created. It’s up to us to decide what kind of men and women we will be. Still doesn’t take away from being a man. I’m uncomfortable with other men and women determining who gets to be a man and who gets to be a woman based on their own assumptions or prejudices.
I’ve mentored so many young men who agonize over the definitions of “real men” floating around. They suffer under all the limitations that people try to force. “Real men _______” (love football, love Braveheart, love Jesus, etc.).
That’s easy for me. I love football . . . and Braveheart . . . and certainly Jesus.
But Miller’s insight comes from the perspective of one who searched and searched to see if he belonged. Because he didn’t fit into the stereotypes, and he didn’t have an adult male in his life to tell him that he belonged.
Maleness and femaleness is a matter of creation. God has spoken.
Is it possible to be a shallow man (or woman)? a bad man? an ungodly man?
Absolutely. That’s not what this chapter is about.
It’s about the fundamental search for gender identity. And it gave him lots of comfort to know that God has spoken. He is a man — whether any adult male every told him so or not, whether he ever developed a love for football analogies or not.
It’s so misleading to say “real men love Jesus.” That’s just not always true. Because there are lots of real men who don’t love Jesus. There are lots of real men who don’t even know about Jesus. It’s kind of a trite, Southern, fundamentalist ploy.
When a man gives his life to Jesus, he doesn’t become a Real Man finally. He is a real man who is now a Christ-follower. He is, in Paul’s language, “new creation.” He now reflects more fully God’s intentions for men and women.
“God has spoken” and it’s great.
I too am not a fan of the Christian’s good intentions to use cultural definitions of personhood. I had someone give me an excerpt from Wild at Heart which just turned me off to ever reading.
What is interesting is that in the corporate workplace I have been given the opportunity to interface (hopefully as salt and light) to a growing number of homosexuals (male and female).
To connect with Peggy’s post about her nephew, I cannot help but wonder if the church has unwittingly contributed to the rise of homosexuality by embracing the culture’s definitions of personhood?
Could the church also be a contributing factor to divorce rates, women’s views of beauty, etc. by our well-intentioned adoption of these definitions?
“God has spoken” and I’m not so sure he wants to “hear us roar” so much as he wants to hear us and us to hear Him–to be in relationship.
I love Donald Miller. Although I haven’t read To Own a Dragon yet, I’m pretty sure I get his point and that basically agree with it. And if you use the KJV, you can quote at least six passages to back up his defintion of a real man. 1 Samuel 25:22, 34; 1 Kings 14:10, 16:11, 21:21; and 2 Kings 9:8 refer to him that “pisseth against the wall” as a synonym for “male.” I am happy to report that after a brief search this morning, I was able to reassure myself that I am a real man.
However, I have to agree with Brad. I think Miller sometimes tries too hard to show us that he’s an outside-the-box thinker. Writing in a way that seems shocking to the ordinary pew sitter is just what he does. But while I resent being jammed into anyone’s stereotype of true maleness, I do not want to be reduced to a body part either. The excerpt you quoted left me with that impression, whether or not that was the main point of the chapter. Maleness is a whole lot richer and deeper than that.
Mike,
Thanks for the article! A few years ago a student at my university gave a speech in which he described how a youth minister publicly ridiculed him for being a bit effeminate and not liking some of the things “real men” are supposed to like. He frequently called the kid a sissy and even asked questioned his orientation. My heart broke for the young man. Thankfully, he came through all of this with his faith intact. But how much better would it have been if the youth minister had acted with kindness and love? Your article is a good reminder to all of us to be careful about labeling, defining and stereotyping.
JMJ
Your point is more valid and makes more sense to me if the discussion is about “gender identity” rather than what kind of man you are. I get what you are saying. But t-shirts and bumper stickers that proclaim “Real Men Love Jesus” is not a statement about gender identity. It usually is about a man proclaiming that he is not afraid to be a believer in the eyes of the world, not afraid to have faith, not afraid or ashamed of being a servant or slave of the Master, countering the long-held stereotype of men who didn’t need anyone, could do anything on their own, never show emotion, never show weakness, etc. To me it never said if you don’t love Jesus you are not a male.
Thanks for your thoughts. The dialogue is a blessing. Peace!
Thanks, Brad. I understand.
Miller is writing as one who couldn’t figure out what it means to be admitted to the “guy” club. He kept feeling like a failure because he didn’t fit in any of the circles. So, as one who’s tried to help a lot of young men in such a struggle, I like what he said.
But what you said is certainly true as well. We have to get past thinking that there is something inherently inferior about taking your faith passionately!
Stephen,
“To connect with Peggy’s post about her nephew, I cannot help but wonder if the church has unwittingly contributed to the rise of homosexuality by embracing the culture’s definitions of personhood?”
I also wonder if the church has contibuted to more left handed people? More people with brown eyes? More people with blonde hair?
I read this book in march. I’ve grown up without a father for the past 8 years. He abandoned me in middle school and I’ve never seen him since. I guess what I wonder is now that I’ve got all of this confusion about what is appropriate behaviour for a man, and what isn’t appropriate (i.e: How to interact in relationships with girls, how to control your temper, how to deal with the sins of your father, etc.)… but am I supposed to have learned all of that by reading a book? My guess is “No”. In fact, I think Donald Miller might agree with me. I say that because I don’t think that Donald Miller learned it from reading a book. But what about all of us 20 year olds who are in College on our own, and for the life of us we don’t know what it’s like to be around a healthy relationship? Because I think it’s great that Donald Miller had John MacMurray, but how is that going to happen to the rest of us? Is someone going to take me in and let me live with them to see what an emotionally healthy family functions like?
Nevertheless, I thought it was a great book, but this is how I felt after reading the book. In so many ways I agreed with Donald Miller, but in a lot of ways I felt left out like he had something that only very few are offered the opportunity. Are the rest of us just suppose to figure it out ourselves by reading books?
I don’t want to sound like I’m angry at him, because I’m not. I guess I just wonder what I’m supposed to do. Does this make sense to anyone else?
Mr. W.,
I am so sorry to hear that your father left you — and left you when he did. What a jerk! Having a “FatherLoss” (Chetnik) at any age is painful, however, men are affected differently. Chetnik’s book may be helpful to you.
To answer your question of “what am I suppossed to do?” Find an older man to be a mentor to you. Find a man who is a great dad. He may even be an elder. Find someone that you really hit it off with, and then build a relationship with. Also, savor stories of men who have had wonderful and effective fathers. There is so much to learn from these stories. Observe, observe, observe! There are so many young dads who are in love with their kids and their wives. It may be that they had a great dad, or they were also in a situation like yours. Sometimes the greatest advice someone could give is, “I decided not to raise my kids like I was raised!” I imagine there are some great dads and husbands on blog world that can give you some great ideas! By the way, Mike has been a pretty decent Dad himself!
Mr. W-
I’m 41 years old. I am a dad now, and I had a great dad. I won’t even begin to say that I know what you’re going through - and you should take this only for what you think its worth. But….
I think the best thing you can do is to find a father who is a few years older than you who you admire, and just ask him to spend some time with you - ask him questions, pray with him - let him tell you about fatherhood and dads and sons, HIS struggles, etc. You might not get to move into his home, but a lot of what Don learned from living with MacMurray can be learned in this way. You just have to have the courage to reach out and ask someone to take the time to talk and listen. (I don’t know where you live, by the way - but - with any luck - you will be able to find several guys that meet that profile in your faith community.)
Doing this stuff will never make up for what you’ve lost, of course - but it just might make the journey ahead a little easier.
-Matt
does that go for transsexuals also?
Ahhh…. a Donald Miller book and questions of gender identity - things that can draw a comment out of me. >>>> It is hard to say why I have found myself having issues with my own gender identity. Perhaps it has to do with my Dad’s shortcomings, or perhaps it has to do with the fact I was molested at age 6. Regardless, as a Christian male who struggles with homosexuality, I was comforted by Miller’s “penis” statement when I read his book. First I laughed, and then I shed a coupla tears. This kind of relief is hard to explain, but I’ll give it a shot since there seem to be several who are misunderstanding this.
Although I took a lot from Eldridge’s Wild at Heart, and although the Promise Keepers’ goals are to be commended, neither provides anything clear cut to the guys of my generation (currently in college) who are growing up with no direction as to what makes them a man.
Today, many I know ask the same questions as I do, even though they don’t share my same battle. Am I real man? And the question from Wild at Heart, Do I have what it takes? No one is answering this question for us, and when the Iron Man or Warrior definitions fall through, there is nothing for us to do.
It is for this reason that I applaud Miller. He captures the heart of the question. Because, in the end, loving Jesus or Braveheart are issues of maturity or personality or both. Maybe even pre-destination, to some degree.
However, having male reproductive organs is an issue of the way we were created. Just like the fact that we are human makes us all children of God (whether or not we ultimately reject him), this is all it takes to be a man - checking your shorts. This is the club in which any guy can be a member, and it is what tells us that we DO have what it takes. Any manly thing I want to do with that maleness - like being a GOOD man, for example - is now within reach if a penis is the only qualification to be a man.
-TW
PS - Peggy, your nephew is still a real man. He has some choices ahead of him and some choices behind him, but this has nothing to do with with his gender, nor the strength of his identity.
I think TW hit an important point. Miller’s audience he writes to is mostly 18-24 year olds. If you have seen him speak or heard him, you will see who he is passionate about speaking to.
Gender identity is difficult. We are growing up in a culture where our choices are wide, where when most boys use to go outside and play baseball all summer and swim at the local pool with all the other guys, now you’ve got boys sitting at home playing video games, watching HGTV, learning to cook with the Food Network and calling their friends of both genders on the phone without fear of the boy-girl weirdness.
Also, another good look at the cultural differences in view of gender with my age group (I’m 21) is the fact that we find our “can’t visit gender dorms” rule ridiculous. While I absolutley love living in an all male dorm, it’s amazingly fun, probably a good 50% of the people I hang out with or talk to are females. I graduated and my closest friends were 70% female, because I was so involved in musical theatre and vocal performance.
The world has asked us to become more gender neutral, not just in judging each other, but in how we see each other. It’s why the church will deal with gender roles, because we will begin to wonder how we’re so much the same, yet some people limit us so much by saying things that we don’t see with our own eyes.
Mike - Help! My previous comment is stuck in “your comment is awaiting moderation” purgatory. What pennance must I do to free it?
Frankly, the guy sounds like a weenie to me.
I think what he’s getting at is that the church has bought into the culture’s definition of what a “real man” should look like instead of relying on God for our identity. This is a real struggle. How does the church challenge the popular culture of what role men play in society? I’m afraid that the conservative church has defined the role of men down so specifically that those who do not fit that mold are simply made to feel shut out. By saying that “real men do such and such” we play on their insecurities in order to get their behavior in line with what we feel is “proper” for a man to do. We are so afraid of being feminized that we have created a hyper-male image as our ideal.
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