The landscape of Churches of Christ looks very different today than it did back in 1992 when Wineskins magazine was launched. Here are five signs of hope:
1. Churches all over are struggling with their identity, trying to break from being defined by what we’re not. (Not Catholic, not Baptist, not Presbyterian, etc.) And for many, the language being used has to do with being missional: living out the Way of Christ in a world that God deeply loves and seeks to repair. There is more focus on kingdom language, echoing the dominant theme of Jesus’ preaching. I hear less discussion, e. g., of how our understanding of baptism is better than everyone else’s and more interest in what the implications are of baptism. Also, many more are talking about salvation as an on-going way of living — the continual process of God peeling away layers of selfishness that would demand our own way.
2. There is a revival happening in many of our Christian colleges and campus ministries. Just ask anyone who’s been to the Gulf Coast Get-a-Way in recent years. For a weekend in February, nearly 2000 university students crash in Panana City to be challenged and to challenge one another to live for Christ on their campuses. At Lipscomb, the wise, courageous leadership of Randy Lowry is showing quickly. Look for them to become a leading school in the next decade. At Pepperdine, Rochester College, and ACU (under the leadership of Andy Benton, Mike Westerfield [and before him Ken Johnson], and Royce Money), these schools have opened dialogue beyond our own small world and have built strong Bible faculties to help form students theologically and missionally. The books that have been coming from “The Heart of the Restoration” series from ACU have been insightful. (Check them out: The Crux of the Matter: Crisis, Tradition, and the Future of Churches of Christ
3. The Christian Chronicle continues to bless Churches of Christ. Fifteen years ago the editorial tone of the journal was often harsh. “Young reformers” were encouraged to leave. But no longer. The Chronicle has a very responsible way of reporting and encouraging. Right now I find them to be a great rallying point of unity.
4. The response of Churches of Christ after the tsunami and after Katrina has reminded us again that there is a hurting world that isn’t interested in our internecine discussions. Churches large and small have cooperated to pray, to give, and to send workers to help.
5. The focus of “worship renewal” has changed for the better, INMO. The language I’m hearing at Zoe conferences, Stream in the Desert, the Tulsa Workshop, Pepperdine, ACU, etc. — would indicate that we’re thinking more holistically about worship. While some time needs to be spent praying and planning for the corporate times of gathering, even more important is that those times of gathering allow us to stir one another on toward love and good deeds (Heb. 10:24f). We come together to remember who we are as Christ-followers, and we send one another out, freshly commissioned to live worshipful lives of service throughout the week. Praise, thanksgiving, confession, and lament permit us to remember that God, despite outward appearances at times, is in control and that he is blessing us to be a blessing.
There are many other signs I could have included in this brief list, such as the shared discussions this year with Christian Churches and the growing sense that the family of God is much larger than our streams of the “Restoration Movement.”
I have no crystal ball. I have no idea if there will be a major split in Churches of Christ in the future . . . or just a growing, informal split . . . or maybe a renewal of unity around the old idea of being Christians only but not the only Christians.
Mike,
Thanks for a really positive and encouraging post. I think too many people spend too much time trying to point out our weaknesses and shortcomings. I personally think we still have a lot of great things going. In a world that is more and more inclined towards a non-denominational approach, we have a lot to offer (even if we haven’t pulled it off 100% perfectly). I’m not able to attend a lot of these conferences and events that you are, and it makes me feel good to hear about all this stuff you’re noticing. Thanks for sharing.
Internecine–”destructive to both sides in a conflict”. Good choice of words. This word has an interesting history.
In its first recorded use in English, in 1663, it meant “fought to the death.” The Latin source of the word, spelled both internecnus and internecvus, meant “fought to the death, murderous.” It is a derivative of the verb necre, “to kill.” The prefix inter- was here used not in the usual sense “between, mutual” but rather as an intensifier meaning “all the way, to the death.
I hope we can get beyond our need to burn bridges and “fight to the death” over matters that divide us.
Even though it is unavoidable with a rigid, fight-to-the-death mentality that demands agreement on “doctrinal” issues like baptism, instrumental music, who’s in who’s out etc., it still breaks my heart every time brothers and sisters draw lines, labeling each other and severe relationships that have been intact for years.
God save us from ourselves!
We must rediscover the power of God’s love to bridge the gap betweeen us. God is always more accepting of people than we are. Why can’t we be more like him.
I love the Casting Crowns song, “Love Them Like Jesus” that expresess this thought in a powerful way.
The love of her life is drifting away
They’re losing the fight for another day
The life that she’s known is falling apart
A fatherless home, a child’s broken heart
You’re holding her hand, you’re straining for words
You trying to make - sense of it all
She’s desperate for hope, darkness clouding her view
She’s looking to you
Just love her like Jesus, carry her to Him
His yoke is easy, His burden is light
You don’t need the answers to all of life’s questions
Just know that He loves her and stay by her side
Love her like Jesus
Love her like Jesus
The gifts lie in wait, in a room painted blue
Little blessing from Heaven would be there soon
Hope fades in the night, blue skies turn to gray
As the little one slips away
You’re holding their hand, you’re straining for words
You’re trying to make sense of it all
They’re desperate for hope, darkness clouding their view
They’re looking to you
Just love them like Jesus, carry them to Him
His yoke is easy, His burden is light
You don’t need the answers to all of life’s questions
Just know that He loves them and stay by their side
Love them like Jesus
Lord of all creation holds our lives in His hands
The God of all the nations holds our lives in His hands
The Rock of our salvation holds our lives in His hands
He cares for them just as He cares for you
So love them like Jesus, love them like Jesus
You don’t need the answers to all of life’s questions
Just know that He loves them and stay by their side
Love them like Jesus
Love them like Jesus
Peace.
Right on! I too am encouraged by the directions that many Churches of Christ have taken in recent years. I wonder, however, if the new directions are “too little too late.” What I mean is this: The Christian scene in the world is becoming more and more post-denominational every day, with Christ-followers rejecting walls that separate and turning to the missional way of Christ. My wife and I are a prime example of this. While we have been impacted greatly by our times in Churches of Christ (me being a “lifer” and Chrissy relatively new to the movement), we are now in a place where the stark distinctions of our movement don’t make sense to the rest of the world (and especially the Christian world). The mission field (in our case, Boston) serves as an amazing reminder of what truly is important. Instead of, as Mike put it, defining ourselves by “what we’re not,” we know that we need to place our identity in the person of Christ and join with whomever else does the same. All for the sake of God’s glory, the church, and the world.
Mike,
Thanks for paving the way for many of us who are able to step into a more healthy environment. I have not given up on Churches of Christ. God has great things to be done in our fellowship and it is exciting to see the many great things being done to extend ourselves in service for the kingdom holding hands with others outside of our tradition.
The universities are doing a great job of forming students into forward thinking ministers. But more than that, I have been transformed more into the image of Christ by my experience at ACU.
I am excited about our future. I am prayerful that God will use the next generation in powerful ways to redeem his humanity. May his kingdom come and his will be done here as it is in heaven.
Wineskins started just before I got my first job in ministry. Someone gave me a copy, and I couldn’t send in the subscription card fast enough. I really miss Image Magazine.
Barna’s book “Revolution” has me wondering how much of our current institutional structure will be around 50 years from now. Perhaps there will be a lot of empty church buildings, and a much more vibrant church.
Mike, fantastic post! Like you, I believe there are wonderful signs of hope. God and His spirit are working and moving in the lives of His people……….in lots of different fellowships.
Thanks for sharing your observations………..they are cherished and valued greatly!
In HIM,
DU
Mike, your optimism is laudable. When it comes to predicting the future state of any group or movement, one can only speculate and pray for the best.
I think any person’s opinion of the future of churches of Christ is largely shaped by their spiritual surroundings and people they hang with. If you are a speaker at ZOE conferences (I’ve been to one) or write for Wineskins (I used to be a regular reader), you will be in touch with many who pat you on the back and praise the “new direction” the church is taking. The critics out there become a little softer in your mind when you have some loud applause.
The church I left a year ago was the largest CoC in my state, at about 250. Since my departure (not because of it) the attendence has dropped to about 200. The two deacons of worship resigned and have left the church. The youth minister resigned (not a fresh out of school guy, but a seasoned man). Others have departed. The budget is a mess.
Most (if not all) of the families leaving were those who wanted the church of Christ to be relevent, but discouragement stole the vision. We have all gone our separate ways to the Christian church, E-Free, community church … even home church. We care deeply about the church we left behind, but would not sacrifice another minute for it. For Christ’s church, yes. For this “church of Christ,” no. We also care deeply about each other. We are brothers in Christ to the end, even if not in Sunday worship with one another.
That’s the story for most of the 70 churches in a more rural state like mine. I’ll bet that outside of the most populous coC states, the story I relate is more representative of reality than your story of hope. I wish it were not so. Spend a couple weeks visiting on churches in Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, N/S Dakota, Minnesota and the like, and your optimism might fade. (Better yet, don’t … the Apostle Paul pleads with us to dwell on the fruit of the Spirit, not eat of the fruit of despair.)
Brian - Fair enough. I preach at Highland, I teach at ACU, and I minister through Zoe conferences and Wineskins. However, when I speak at places like the Gulf Coast Get-a-Way or the Tulsa Workshop, there are people from all over — not just a few large Texas churches.
I think church will look VERY different in many places in the future. Follow the link from Steve Jr.’s post (above), and you’ll see what many young, bold leaders in Churches of Christ are thinking about “organic churches” in the future. Talk about something to give you hope!
Less focus on the denomination known as Churches of Christ and more focus on Christ and his work in this world!
Your optimism gives me hope. Your writings give me hope. Unfortunately, the congregation I am a part of still majors in the minors. I love these people and try to help us change our focus, but some days it is very spiritually draining. This site helps me on those days!
One comment about the emerging church. I pray that as we move away from being “not-Baptist, not-Methodist, not-Catholic” we do not move closer to being “not-Church of Christ”. I have seen churches that have changed their focus dramatically, but not towards being christ-like but toward “doing” church the way they want to. I pray that we focus on christ and only change our forms if they help us function better as instruments of Christ.
My response was somewhat similar to Brian’s. How I wish that was true here. Having just been through a 12 week class supposedly on “what our baptism means” that turned out to be 12 weeks of proof-texting with jabs from the class attendees at other people who do not understand it the same way as the C of C. Talk about discouraging.
It is wonderful to see that the shift is taking place, but I despair at times wondering if it will ever happen anywhere near where I live. (There are a few people at church who would hope for such changes as well. We tend to find each other pretty quick and get what encouragement we can from each other. And, in fairness to Michigan I should say that some of the things I hear they are doing over near Detroit at the Rochester church are very encouraging, but 3 hours is a bit far to drive for church. )
Mike,
I thank you for post. I would challenge your thoughts on two points. Christian Universities and worship. I am excited about the future on both of these points. I know you have your issues about Harding, all I can tell you is that I get to come back and be a part of Uplift which is 3 weeks and be a witness to the birth of many christians. This camp is hosted by Harding, but I believe showcase what we suppose to be about. The teens are challenged and are convicted about their faith and their response is shown each week with different campers. I love all the Universities and what they are attempting to do. i am also glad they are not the same. Which brings me to worship! We have to do more to make our assemblies ethnic friendly. I still have the hope and the dream that both white, black, latino, and etc will be able to one day meet and worship under the same roof. This is our challenge. Worship styles, praise team or not, Lord supper,and other issues should not be what we are fighting about. It should be where is my neighbor and how can plant a seed for Jesus. I grew up a bus ministry kid, and attended private christian schools from 7th grade to the completion of my Maste’s degree. The church can be stronger when we give the others the benefit of the doubt. I believe there is too much good going on to think that one institution or worship preferences should dominate our view of the future. Thanks again for your post. I have learned a lot from you and others while I attended Harding. God blessed. Terry Davis
I appreciate your comment about HU and the students that it continues to send out. I graduated from HU two years ago and moved to DFW with several others. I consider us all to be those who have been challenged by Cox, Fortner and the like to “live radical lives of discipleship on behalf of the world”…
I have felt disspointed over the last few years in HU in some of the ways you describe in this post… HU was great every single day I was there in ways I cannot express….but, here’s to prayers that HU will come along in ways that other schools and churches are doing so in their ideas and understandings about the Kingdom.
I read your blog almost every day. Thanks!
I’m with Steve (zzpuck.notlong.com) in his sentiment: “God save us from ourselves!” I believe it at an ACU Lectureship years ago that I first heard a speaker state something like: the Church of Christ is the only army that shoots its wounded.
I’m also with Steve in his musical choice. May God give us the courage to seek out ways of living into the positive vision you’ve painted in this post!
Mike,
You missed mentioning a wonderful Christian University under the leadership of Dr. Ken Jones. Lubbock Christian University. As a graduate of Lubbock Christian University I am encourage about their leadership and their Biblical Studies Department. Dr. Steve Joiner has done a fantastic job leading that department. Scholarly staff: Dr. Jesse Long, professor of Archaelogy, O.T., and preaching; Dr. Stacy Patty, professor of Theology, World Religion and Ethics; Dr. Brandon Fredenburg; Dr. Charles Stephenson; Dr. Guy Brown; Jim Beck missions who does just talk it but lives it by serving as minister in an inner city church, Carpenters Church, focusing on the poor and disenfranchised of the community. Soon to be Dr. David Fraze who has done a fantastic job training youth ministers. Many other adjunct profs who are top notch in their feilds. I was bless by many of these men as well as Dr. Leon Crouch, and Dr. Kenneth L. Cukrowski who was at LCU before moving to ACU. Dr. Cukrowski inspiried his students and gave new life to the text. Lubbock Christian University is doing a fantastic job training ministers and youth minister for ministry. I thankful each day for these men and Lubbock Christian as I minister to God people.
Thanks, Preacherman. I just don’t know much about LCU, but I have a lot of confidence in Steve Joiner!
Mike,
Thanks for sharing with us what is going on across the land with regard to missional efforts among christians; especially on the christian campus’s you named. I heard Jeff Walling at Pepperdine after not being able to do so at Harding for the last several years, and was impacted and encouraged again. I laughed and cried and prayed during his sessions and thanked God for his talents as he shared Jesus with us each day. I hope the admin. at Harding will bridge whatever gap that exists between them and Jeff; and you! Thanks for sharing each day. Your words are indeed an encouragement to me.
Keith
I also appreciate your posts. I think I would be considered part of the older generation that sometimes resists change, but I have been influenced greatly by listening to you at ACU lectureship and reading your posts. I have known Jeff since he was a teenager and worshipped at Mission Viejo when he was the minister there. He also performed the wedding ceremony of my aunt and uncle when they were in their 70’s. In other words I think he is very special. I am saddened to hear that anyone would not want to listen to him.
Mike,
Thanks so much for the insight. Your vein of thinking in this post is so similar to what Rick Atchley has been preaching recently in his “United Kingdom” series.
The Churches of Christ have certainly exuded an insular attitude over the years. It is encouraging to see so many waking again to the idea of “christians only.”
I would encourage and challenge all in this area:
As we grow in our knowlege of what it truly means to be disciples of Jesus Christ, we must not become elitists. The temptation is certainly there, especially with those who are “left behind” in more conservative, divisive Churches of Christ. Remember, just because someone attends a church like that doesn’t mean that they aren’t earnestly seeking to follow Jesus. It’s just that they are constantly inundated with false teaching.
We must not only reach out into the hurting world, but also into the church, where there are also lost and confused people. As we turn our attention to embrace those on our left, we must not forget we have brothers to the right, too.
Mike,
Thanks for posting this. Over the last year the conversations with my friends over this topic have increased. More and more I am seeing my fellow bible majors desiring a church that is not defined by its theological tracts, but by its actions of love and unfailing selflessness.
The church, not just church of christ, is redefining itself. Scholars are even redefining the word Christian. Fearfully seeking a deeper, intimate relationship with our creator. Nothing new, just closer to the vine.
Yet as a bible major preparing to enter into full time ministry. I am terrified. This hope, is mixed with terror, but these discussions need to take place. Thanks for every thing that you do Mike.
Readers -
If you want to know what’s driving a lot of the imagination of university students I get to hang around, read the posts today by Steve Jr. (which I already pointed to above), Collin, and BJ.
Makes me smile.
Mike
It’s all very well to be “missional” but I fear in the process sound doctrine is being sacrificed in many ways.
Mike,
Thanks for the post. One thing I fear for the C of C is that the current Bible Churches, specificially churches with gifted pastors like Tommy Nelson at Denton BC, have sprung up carrying the mantra of C of C’s from when I was young. When I went to seminary at Trinity (in Chicago), all of my professors had a great deal of respect for ACU and the C of C saying, “Kids coming out of that heritage always know their Bible.” I am somewhat fearful, now recognizing that we may not still be known for our rich heritage of strongly educating our children in the Word. This scares me. IMHO, the Bible Churches are now the ones that people look to for strong education in the Bible. I love that the C of C’s have made a transition to a more personal relationship with Christ, but I also worry that we are starting to lose our grip on a strong command of the Word.
So, I continue to look to you and to my own pastor (Charlie Middlebrook) to keep us tethered to the anchor while we venture forward in our faith.
Blessings,
Kyle
Chris,
Jesus, in Matthew 25, shows me that though I CAN be forgiven for making mistakes… doctrinal or otherwise, there is no forgiveness if I refuse to be the kind of person who will reach out to those in need, spiritually or physically.
As I learn to be Christ to those in need, I believe I’ll also be drawn closer to being what he wants me to be by his spirit. I’ll be “transformed” by the renewing of my mind as I offer myself as a “living sacrifice.” (Romans 12) That same section also tells me that this offering of my body IS worship… and it IS how I come to know the “good, pleasing and perfect will” of the father.
It seems the best way to pursue “sound doctrine” is to pursue being “like Christ” in my actions.
Do you have some specific ways that some are sacrificing sound doctrine in order to be missional?
maybe a renewal of unity around the old idea of being Christians only but not the only Christians
Shouldn’t this be the goal of ALL of us?
I think we too often fixate on the “sound doctrines” and forget to just join hands and perform the work Christ would have us do.
I look at how God illustrates the story of the Good Samaritan; where hospitality was offered to the wounded traveler, with NO strings attached. No cramming the Gospel down his throat while he was a captive audience, no hell-fire and brimstone tactics. We’re to serve because we are being obedient and reflecting the love of Christ - right?http://www.nihn.org/ihn/ihn.html does great works, across the nation, with the help of numerous churches, of all denominations. Even those of the non-Christian faiths. It’s a scary idea, but the fact that we’re scared to join interfaith groups such as this misses the boat in a big way. “They’ll know we are Christians by our love,” but if we hinder where we feel ok to express that love, the greatest examples are often missed.
As for other Christian churches involved in projects like these:
Matthew 10: 40″He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. 41Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward.”
Mike, I remember going to Lynn Anderson’s “Worship That Makes Sense” seminar at Preston Road in Dalas backin 1992. It was so refreshing to hear for the forst time that there actually were people who thought about the church in the same way I did. I think we realized for the forst time that there really was a future for us in the COC. Lynn, Rubel, you and many others have given us hope and a home that we never hought possible. It’s amazing to see how far many of our churches have come over the years.
I think that there is an informal divide developing mong the COCs. I don’t think that there will be a formal divide, but there is a slim chance that it could happen by way of our colleges. Instead I see churches taking different directions. Some a re keeping to the “old paths” while others are charting a new course.
Thanks for the encouraging words. Being a Lipscomb graduate of many years ago, and knowing Randy on a personal level, I was thrilled to hear of his selection as president of DLU. I agree that he will do wonders for the school.
Hope can carry us far! You’ve reminded us battle-weary preachers there is hope.
Great post, Mike! I was just talking about this idea this morning with a mortgage lender here in Dallas. He was talking about how important his church community is to him and to his family. Then he said, “I was raised in the Catholic Church and I am still there, but I am a CHRISTIAN! I am not led by the Catholic Church, I am led by Jesus Christ.” Wow! It’s not only changing in our neck of the woods, but across Christendom. I echoed his sentiment and told him of my heritage and how we are finally identifying the enemy as Satan - not other believers!
I agree with Scott - “It seems the best way to pursue “sound doctrine” is to pursue being “like Christ” in my actions.” Great comments!
Say, Preacher … when’re you gonna favor us with something like this on New Wineskins again?
I love you here, but I miss you there!
Yeah, Keith. That’s a bit of a problem. I wrote in EVERY issue of Wineskins beginning in 1992. I’ll have to return there soon.
Mike, I love this post. I love my heritage but I also hate it. I, too, am so encouraged by the fresh air blowing through the Churches of Christ. I can also relate with so many of you in small churches who are struggling and frustrated…been there. I don’t have any answers…only observations and experiences. But I do believe that when we turn our focus onto mission and off of being right, then we are so much closer to getting it right. God always seems to turn it all so upside down for us…I love it.
This has been a most interesting post. Sometimes I think it is just me heralding a change in the church. But I know Christ is who is working in us. I think for me it all started back in the early 90’s by knowing the Holy Spirit is all we have today to guide us. I had always thought because of what I was taught in the church, the Spirit had left when we got the Bible. Yikes! I think each generation needs to read and pray and discover what the Spirit wants us to discover. But the heart of it all is love, when we loose that , we loose everything.
If it is the case that significant change is occurring, the Chronicle is helping to report these changes with integrity. It has a wide readership and keeps congregations in “print fellowship”.
As others have pointed out, all of us however find ourselves rather isolated in our streams. So there are huge cross sections in CoCs who know nothing of Wineskins, the Tulsa Worshop, Zoe etc. . . Example, when I was growing up, the only think I knew was that Mike Cope was a “liberal.” I was probably 10 or 12 at the time. Nobody sat me down and gave me a list of who was liberal and who was o.k. or explained to me why one might be considered “liberal” and another all right, but it was communicated to me nevertheless. This sort of thing is passed down in the religious DNA of folks, not always intentionally. It can become as much the part of a person’s religious self-understanding as generosity, loyalty, etc . . . I tend to believe that there is less of the sectarian stuff being passed down, but maybe that’s because I live in a different stream now and don’t really know how that works anymore.
As it changes, it will continue to be very slow, and it will mostly happen in churches (house and traditional) that are off the radar.
Kevin
Mike, great post! My heritage in Churches of Christ runs pretty deep too. Also, having been a former bible major at Harding as an undergrad, I know firsthand the importance of Cochran, Cox and Fortner. They seem to really stand out as “beacons of light” (Lord of the Rings reference) on that campus, as ones integral to keeping that community moving forward spiritually. What a challenge for them! Maybe continuous prayers for them should be offered, in light of the fact that they likely face criticism from insiders and alumni. Plus, my little sister will be a freshman there in the fall. So, my care for the school remains an important part of my life.
When I came to ACU as a grad student, I did catch quite a bit of criticism/grief from other faculty members from Searcy, as well as from personal relatives and friends. What a disappointment by some of the brotherhood and sisterhood when Christian education and spiritual formation becomes more about competition and jealousy. My hope is for a renewal of unity and peace. Jesus prayed for it. May the Spirit intercede among our shortcomings.
As much as I become saddened by others, my hope remains strong for what is happening around the world. Remember, churches are emerging more in numbers in places like Africa and Asia. And, this generation of college students and young people care less about our attachments to 50 years ago. They want faith now, in action. So, aided by their fervor, we will see something special in the years to come. As the poet Bob Dylan still reminds us, “the times they are a changin’”. Let’s be about the work of reconciliation and kingdom living.
Mike,
I have a few questions for you? This Movement you started after your little girl passed away,( so sorry about your little girls) Why did you start it! It is a movement as you referred to it above! How can you as a preacher of the word assumes so many things! All the years you taught and you believed the bible and truly followed the scripture! What the problem is with the Cof C is we have too many guys like yourself and guys with Phds that say I believe I see I know, and it does not even matter what you say or how you believe it, it is what is written in the SCRIPTURE! How do you preach for so many years against everything you do at Highland and over the past five to 7 years total switch your beliefs! That scares me knowing that the guy who preaches to many people is so unsure about his religion and truly does not know what he believes. To me you are lost in what you believe! You are on the fell good movement and making people happy! How can you look at your brother in Christ and truly believe in your heart you are doing what is right! You know what revelation says about adding and taking away from the word! You know about women’s rolls and you also know that a split in the church is not good! This is a way the devil has come into the church and is tearing the church apart. People are following you and not God, People think you know what you are talking about! Their are still many great CofC out there, please don’t assume like you did above and say all churches are changing! You are right about taking the CofC of the Highland building would be great! Because you do not believe the same thing we do as C of C! I believe I am called to talk to my brother in Christ when they are not doing as God called as to be! I am not doing this out of hate or rage I am doing this out of Love! I do not see how a guy who baptized me 12 years ago, could change his beliefs totally from what he preached to me 12 years ago! God Bless Your Brother in Christ
A continual prayer of mine is that if ever a ‘split’ occurs, it would resemble more the folds of a great and loving quilt, falling open to enfold the rest of the world, welcoming them to come inside where life is warm, cosy, friendly, and where diversity is celebrated and encouraged by the love of Christ.
Why a quilt? Because quilts are creations of different patchwork designs: made from pieces of imperfect fabric that oftentimes get a second chance at being connected to wholeness; stitched and re-stitched; capture the imagination; soothe the weary spirit; and passed down through the ages.
Thanks, Mike, for this thoughtful post.
Jeff Walling banned from speaking on Harding’s campus? Yow-za! Wouldn’t of thought that 10 years ago as a student there. That speaks volumes about closed doors. Jeff, in my opinion, has always been seen as a “bread and butter” speaker at events across the country. Churches of Christ have also wanted Jeff on their wishlist of conferences, seminars and lectureships. I’m sorry, how can you ban Jeff? If preaching Christ Jesus with passion, compassion and a sensitivity to our heritage gets you “marked”, then I guess most of us are guilty too. Ban Jeff? Come on. Did Jerry Falwell recently become a board member?
To: God Bless
Thank you for your comments made in love. I know you will also understand I’m coming to you in love. Please open your eyes and your heart, so you can see that Mike has never “switched” his beliefs. In fact, his beliefs are actually coming to the forefront — out from behind the old C. of C. curtain of traditions and legalistic tendencies that were held up as doctrine for decades.
Also, you say “the devil is coming in and tearing the church apart”. Can you please give your definition of church? Do you mean C. of C’s, or are you referring to the whole community of believers?
I was going to comment on the awesome things going on and the faculty at LCU, but preacherman beat me to it!! So…I will just second it-as an LCU alum, I was blessed by many of these people that have been mentioned, along with a great environment that invited discussion and whose main goal is to change lives.
David Fraze is actually Dr. David Fraze now, and he is doing a wonderful job of training youth ministers. He is one of my heroes of the faith, and I appreciate his passion and vision. There is also Kirk Hayes, who is the campus minister and professor of missions (and was a missionary in Kenya for 12 years beforehand); and he has an absolute heart of gold and passion for students and for prayer. There have been quite a number of awesome ministers and missionaries who have come out of LCU, and are now doing ministry in various places. It has been so encouraging to continue to watch that happen and to work alongside those people.
I know that God is continuing to work in that place, and I am proud to call myself an alum. I am so thankful that I have been able to be a part of the missions of both LCU and ACU-what a blessing!!
TO: C
I am referring the the Cof C! You can look at your own church and see that the devil is pulling things apart! People have been leaving there finding a new church home and Elders of highland for many years and left and resigned to move on to new churches because they do not believe in the Cope Movement! By the way Mike cope used to preach on womens roles and where women where suspose to be in the church!
God Bless
PS What happened to the Deacons in the Church Let me quess new Doctorine was found!
If he did not change his beliefes then why are women in the
Wow, God Bless. I don’t even know where to begin . . . .
I guess I should say I’m sorry that I was so unclear about communicating to you what I believed 12 years ago. I haven’t changed. What I preached 12 years ago at Highland and 20 years ago in Searcy are the same today. I’ve become more open about the ministry and giftedness of women (which I mention because you did) since coming here. But it’s the same thing I believed in Searcy days.
God Bless, Your comments set very heavy on my heart because you are proclaiming an ideology that I was raised in and my parents still hold firmly to. I have grown in my understanding of scripture and love for it, which has led me to a much different interpetation than that I was raised with. It is for this reason that I have to defend Mike (who I don’t even know) and the members and leadership at Highland. It seems to me that the”many” you refer to that are leaving are simply going to another church that they feel more comfortable with, and places like Highland are continuing to grow with lost people who do not know how to “do church” the way you and I were taught as young people. It seems if the way we did church was that impoortant, Jesus would have spent a lot more time on it, but that is for another day. I have found those that leave places like Highland and SW here in Jonesboro are really not leaving for “scriptual” reasons, but as one friend I have said recently, “he feels like this is the church he grew up in, in the 60″s and is not nervous about surprises every Sunday” I am thankful that churches exist for people who need that level of comfort, but I am also thankful that churches like Highland are reaching unchurched, dechurched, and many others. I would hope that you too are very excited about those being added to the kingdom becasue of the work at Highland and others like them across our country and the world. Also I hope you have the courage to let Mike know your idenity and email or correspond in a different venue than this so that some of the misconceptions you have can be talked through and prayed through together.
Peace
All I know about “women’s rolls” in the church is good. I love it when they bring them to a church potluck dinner.
To God Bless:
Next time you want to make a point in a public forum, you might try brushing up on your grammar and spelling. Since no one else will say it here, I will. You are an idiot. You and your ilk turn believers against believers and alienate non-believers. In short, you do more harm than good for the cause of Christ.
Victor, I was thinking the exact thing you posted when I read “God Bless”s comments. This is a good opportunity to tout “Sister Schubert’s” rolls—they taste as good as Mom’s, & they’re ready to buy in your grocer’s freezer. However, “Sister Schubert” is NOT CofC, so her calling herself “Sister” could lead one astray. She may be a false prophet.
Victor - You whacky ICC guys! Hope to see you in Louisville in a couple weeks.
The Dude:
How do you know I am turning believers away! You are a good assumer these days! I can not believe you would call anybody an idiot as a Christian! All we are having is good talk about the kingdom of God. We might have different beliefs, but we still believe in the same God! Good Job judging me buddy! I am glad God gave you the job of judging people and not spreading the gospel! I have just stated what is on my heart and you go off calling me an idiot and assuming everything! I guess you must be better then me! God Bless The Dude and his tongue! Amen
I think I’m very confused about this whole “judging” thing. My understanding is that we are supposed to leave entry to heaven up to God. That we should never try to interpret a person’s heart or motives in a manner of assuming whether that person will be entering the pearly gates or not.
Yet, many times when someone is disagreed with, or even called an idiot, they pull out the “who made you judge” card. That has never appeared to be “judging” to me. Any other thoughts?
Easy there C. and God Bless.
You too, Dude.
Well. I don’t know about all you guys, but I cannot stop lauging at the comments made by my good friend, Annie, and the Sister Schubert rolls. Maybe it’s a “woman issue”.
However, when I first read the godbless comments, my initial reaction to the “women’s rolls” was that I surely do hope they wear pants when they do that!
And I thought of rolls of tummy fat….
Kathy -
Wow… my congregation is just now starting to make progress on “clapping”. I don’t think “rolling” will ever happen — even with the men!
[I, too, got a chuckle out of the "women's roll" comments... sometimes you have to laugh...]
Mary
How well I know that these differences can bring deep pain to all involved. Some of us are more acquainted with the harm done by spiritiual slavery than others. It is difficult for some men in particular, to understand the grip of that slavery, to recognize that women, like men, have God-given gifts that God will call us to accountability about their use, as He will men and their gifts.
Paul writes that in Jesus there are no racial differences to separate us, no economical nor political either, AND there are no gender differences in the LORD, we are all equal and co-heirs in Jesus. Yet most of my life, the men leading the spiritual body we call the Church have spent their time trying to separate us along all of the above lines. The last to go seems to be women’s spiritual slavery in the church.
Women are told to sit down and be quiet - to keep their ideas to themselves should they be bold enough to disagree with what the men are saying. How brutal it is to be told and taught that you have NO rights in the men’s church, except those and only those the men deign to dole out. To be told, for instance, that your talents must be limited to teaching only children, that you may NOT have any part in adult teaching can be frustrating and is certainly demeaning.
Yet, women continue to be the majority of faithful workers in our churches. Strange, to say the least. I suppose one might say that due to this spiritual slavery women have learned how to serve their LORD rather than the church.
This lack of acceptance of women in the church can often been seen in physical activity. May I suggest we begin to notice, for instance, when a man and woman are talking in a church setting and a second man approaches them, rarely will he excuse himself for breaking into the conversation. He will just take the first man’s arm, and turn him away, or he might even position himself between the woman and the person she was speaking to, cutting off her participation in a conversation, as he interjects his own.
Guys, Jesus traveled with women as much as He did men. He appeared first to women after He arose, giving them the first preaching job about the risen Savior, of teaching the apostles [all men ya' know lol] about His resurrection.
In short, Jesus didn’t hold women in spiritiual slavery, He freed us! Praise You, LORD!!
I’m thinking that one of the sisters needs to just stand up and start speaking…”I have a dream…”
Institutionalized discrimination does not die. When it is exposed it scurries away into the shadows from whence it awaits an opportune time to reemerge. Before we are free from the bonds of the past, we must eradicate the vestiges of discrimination in the present. There is no “bug bomb” sufficient for the task. Broken and contrite spirits, combined with a willingness to bring forth the fruit of repentance is the need of the hour. May God’s Spirit work deep within the hearts and minds of men helping us become more of what God wants us to be.
God Bless,
I will not call you an idiot for your poor grammar, but if you are going to offer a challange like you did proof reading is a very good idea. We would all do well to remind ourselves that many of us a long time ago were right where he is today. I remember when I actually made a clandestine visit to a “liberal” church to hear a well known “liberal.” That night changed my life. God Bless, keep studying and keep and open mind, and develop a thick skin. God’s grace is wonderful. I live in it ever day.
Mike,
Please, take your “I love my brother more than God” garbage and everyone that follows the will of man first and maybe God next and GO “JOIN” YOU LOCAL NEIGHBORHOOD christian CHURCH ’cause I want MY GOD’S Church BACK!!!! This movement that has been dreamed up and implemented by the likes of Rick Warren, Lucado, Shelly and the like has nothing to do with THE Church at all. If we SUCK so BAD, go join them! LEAVE US ALONE. We are commanded to flee from spewers of false doctrine so we do. This is a free country still and your DREAMS of religious genocide are not only damning, but illegal. Please, for the sake of my family, GO AWAY!
Mike,
I do agree that we need “worship renewal”, but not in the way you are suggesting. We must worship in spirit and in TRUTH! There are many examples in the Old Testament when people who claim to be christians fail to do as God comands, and the outcome was not pleasant. I do not want to be counted in that number. The Bible warns us that there will be false teachers who will secretly introduce strange heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. It also states that many will follow. 2 Peter chapter 2. There seems to many who do follow this movement to stray away from the teaching of our Lord, and that saddens me. It is my prayer that people like yourself will seek the old paths. Jeremiah 6″16 states, ” Thus says the Lord, Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, and you will find rest for your souls.” The people refused, and disaster took place. The right path for living is ancient and has been marked out by God. We face the same decision today, going Gods way, or following a new path of our own choosing. Dont be misled. The only way to find peace and rest is to walk on Gods path. If we stick to the teachings of God and do as it says, the Church will grow, but in the right way. Stick to God’s path.
Mike,
I do agree that we need “worship renewal”, but not in the way you are suggesting. We must worship in spirit and in TRUTH! There are many examples in the Old Testament when people who claim to be christians fail to do as God comands, and the outcome was not pleasant. I do not want to be counted in that number. The Bible warns us that there will be false teachers who will secretly introduce strange heresies, even to the point of denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. It also states that many will follow. 2 Peter chapter 2. There seems to many who do follow this movement to stray away from the teaching of our Lord, and that saddens me. It is my prayer that people like yourself will seek the old paths. Jeremiah 6″16 states, ” Thus says the Lord, Stand by the ways and see and ask for the ancient paths, and you will find rest for your souls.” The people refused, and disaster took place. The right path for living is ancient and has been marked out by God. We face the same decision today, going Gods way, or following a new path of our own choosing. Dont be misled. The only way to find peace and rest is to walk on Gods path. If we stick to the teachings of God and do as it says, the Church will grow, but in the right way. Stick to God’s path.
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