A blog repeat:
The whole area of Christian participation in and support for war has been a vexing one for me. . . .
But regardless of how one comes out on that dicey issue, we have all benefitted from the courage and sacrifice of those who have fought for freedom. Part of why I have the liberty to sit at my desk today and hack away at this blog is that many have fought against what they believed were forces of evil and injustice.
One of my closest friends, Dr. Charles Mattis, grew up fatherless. When he was young, his father was shot down in Vietnam.
One doesn’t have to be a huge supporter of Vietnam to appreciate the sacrifice that was made-–not just by the young pilot but also by his widow and her two small children.
So today I “remember” this man whom I never knew–along with lots of other men and women I never knew.
And I double my prayers for the kingdom of God to continue breaking in. We pray for God’s rule that will cause humans to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. We long for the time when “nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore” (Isaiah 2:4).
Amen
Yesterday at church an elder prayed, “God thank you for those who have sacrificed for our freedom.”
I thought to myself, “Amen.”
then he continued, “and Lord, please end the war.”
I spoke up loudly, “Amen!”
Then, later in the service, an intern thanked God for sending Jesus.
I thought to myself, “Praise you God.”
Talk about freedom…
Talk about peace…
Talk about a day to remember!
Hi Mike:
Could you please explain what it means when you wrote “And I double my prayers for the kingdom of God to continue breaking in”? I’ve seen you refer to this event before, but I have no idea what you mean. I thought the kingdom was here.
All the best,
John
“The whole area of Christian participation in and support for war has been a vexing one for me. . . .”
Sorry Mike, this statement sends cold chills down my spine and cuts to my heart as I mourn my husband and remember him this day.
As a submarine sailor during WW2 and the Korean war, I know what it cost him in the way of health, both emotional and physical. But truly, because of men like Mitchell, our country’s language isn’t either German nor Japanese - the same holds true for most of the world, as truly a matter of fact.
So I give thanks in his memory for a Christian that held it to be his duty and honor to fight against the horrid evils that were attempting to dominate the earth, evil that probably would have succeeded had it not been for men like Mitchell.
Thank you, Mike, for your thoughtful post this Memorial Day.
You are correct, IMO, when you observe that regardless of what a person thinks about war related issues that “we have all benefitted from the courage and sacrifice of those who have fought for freedom.”
I distinctly remember attending only a few funerals, as a young person. The most vivid memories are of attending the funeral service of my eighteen year old cousin, Gail Lynn Strickland, in Amarillo, Texas. He was killed on August 12, 1971. His helicopter was shot down in Vietnam.
Each year, when Memorial Day rolls around, I am transported back to the day of his memorial service. His immediate family members were so devastated. I was weeks away from turning thirteen and swimming in a sea of conflicting emotions. I remember sitting through the service with my cousin staring at me from the framed, glossy photograph, which was displayed on a table next to his flag-draped casket.
A few years ago, I found his name engraved in the Vietnam Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C. I was not prepared for the emotional impact of this moment. Not just because I found his name, but because I found his name amidst so many others—more that 58,000 other names.
So, as we remember those who have given life and limb for our freedom, let us remember that each one was someone’s daughter, son, brother, sister, husband, wife, cousin or friend. Let us remember, also, there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
I am thankful for my dad and all those who have served our country in peacetime and wartime to defend us and the liberty we enjoy. I pray for God to rule in the hearts of men and women so that war will no longer be necessary. Thanks for your post.
Growing up, this was always a day off of school. Another day when we would fly the American flag, as well as a day to have a cook-out or go to the lake.
But as I’ve grown up and come to understand the sacrifice of men like my uncle Frank, it now means so much more.
I was 3 when my parents took my brother and me to Hobby Airport in Houston along with a large crowd from the Central church of Christ to see Otis Gatewood off for Germany. As brother Gatewood stood on the steps of the plane waving Daddy held me up to see, and I asked why he was going to Germany…because in my mind, Germans were bad people. Daddy told me that he was going to teach them about Jesus, and when they learned more about Jesus, then he would not have to go back overseas and be away from me. (I had been 11 months old when Daddy came home from England, and years later he said the most memorable moment in his life had been holding me for the first time. He came home on a Sunday, and at first I would have nothing to do with him…then that evening at worship I became entranced with his uniform and played with the buttons and metals…and, then, I would not let him out of my sight.) So, to the WW1, WW2, Korean, Vietnam vets…and all the people who have served in some way to give us freedom (many women like my grandmother rolled bandages for hours on end for the Red Cross)…thank you.
Sure, John. By “kingdom of God” I’m referring to the reign of God — his dominion of influence. There is a parallelism in the Lord’s prayer that helps explain it:
thy kingdom come
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
The rule of God has, indeed, broken in — again and again, but especially through the ministry of Jesus. But it has not become fully realized on earth as it is in heaven.
That’s why Christians often refer to it as “already, but not yet.” It has already broken in through Christ, but it has not yet come in its fullness.
That’s a very brief — and inadequate! — answer to a great question. We’re talking about the main theme of Jesus’ preaching, so it certainly deserves our attention.
Kathy - Thanks for sharing those memories of your husband. Must have been a great man.
It’s been a vexing issue for me because of the weight of the arguments and lives of Christian pacifists through the ages. I attended Harding University, which has a strong history of pacifism (not much now, I don’t think). While I was there, I was deeply influenced by Jimmy Allen, e.g. Also, growing up we had lots of gospel meetings with Hugo McCord from Oklahoma Christian, who was a pacifist. I heard him teach a class on Isaiah 2, where he wept as he thought about the nature of God’s kingdom versus the ways of war.
I guess it comes down to this: if Christianity is about following Christ, can we picture him in war? “What Would Jesus Do?” Doesn’t it come down to that? If it doesn’t, then I don’t understand Christianity at its most basic level. Would Jesus resist with guns, bullets, and bombs? Would the one who said to “love your enemy” also kill his enemy? And if he wouldn’t, can his followers?
That’s the vexing part for me.
Having said that, I know we’re in a fallen world. I also have a high respect for the arguments and lives of Christians through the ages who have said that in this fallen world, war is sometimes “just.” Not good, but just. The church has passed along certain criteria by which Christians might prayerfully, reluctantly support war in this fallen world — not as the ultimate goal of the kingdom of Shalom but as a way of halting horrendous evil. E.g., shouldn’t a Hitler have been stopped? If the slaughter in Rwanda could have been stopped, shouldn’t it have been? In these cases, Christians might support war not so that their country can win and prosper but so that horrendous evil might be held back. (By the way, this is the position where I usually land.)
So, as I said, it’s vexing. I’m thankful for the lives and faith of Christians on both sides. (There are, of course, other angles in this discussion which I’ve omitted. For example, some are basically warmongers. They have no concern that a war meet the “just” criteria as long as it serves their own and their country’s best interests. But surely there aren’t many Christians who are here — are there?)
Perplexing though the ISSUE may be, I think we should be thankful for those men and women who have given their lives to try to turn back the heinous evils of the world. (What is at stake in the disagreements between pacifists and just war proponents is not whether or not evil should be resisted but what ways, in light of the Jesus story, are appropriate for the resistance.)
This doesn’t even begin to address this issue adequately. For some will notice the inconsistencies in what I’ve just written. Let me say that I’m aware of them.
I think these two responses — about kingdom and about war — go together. The second one helps explain the “already, but not yetness” of the reign of God. The first one helps remind us that we are not primarily Americans but Christ-followers. Our real citizenship is with those of all nations and tongues who orient their lives around Jesus.
This is my first year without my father, he was 90 when he died last summer. He was a much decorated soldier in WWII. He spoke about it all his life and those who did not make it home. He also spoke of a boy of about 14 who had a gun and was going to kill other soldiers when my dad killed him. He was tortured over that. And war is awful, but our brave soldiers know the horrors that last for years. But they know for our safety and way of life in America, it is worth it. Dad was a deacon in the church and always made sure the lights and heat, air conditioning were just so. I miss him so much and I am 60 and blessed to have had him all these years as are my children and their children. Today I’ll remember all the families that lost those memories to war and thank them for the sacrifice.
Wow, Terry, Dee, Paul, and Jeff — thanks for those memories.
“What Would Jesus Do?”
would he buy a house,
would he drive a car,
would he get married,
would he drink starbucks coffee,
he did die so that the greatest war of all could be won,
Jesus is a vet and gave the greatest gift of all.
I too am a pacifists, a pacifists who believes we have a greater problem than war.
Mike, forgive me for belabouring the point, however, when you say, “Would the one who said to “love your enemy” also kill his enemy? And if he wouldn’t, can his followers? ”
I know Jesus asked for forgiveness for those that killed Him. How far do we take pacifism? For instance, in case of a home invasion, an armed individual bursts into our homes, attacking our families. Does pacifism apply? If not, where are the boundries? I ask this from my heart only, Mike. You know how much I admire you, but this is a very difficult subject for me to really understand.
Bless you for attempting to get these ideas through my solid Dutch-wood head. I’m truly trying to understand the pacifist stance and how far it extends - are there exceptions, etc?
amen, clint..
As I work along side the soldiers of the streets as a police chaplain I know they are governed by the use of “appropriate force” in each situation they are involved. Jesus seemed to always use “appropiate force”. Today the memory of many who were willing to use “appropriate force” is at the fore front of our minds. Why? Because of the sacrifice they have made with their lives whether they survived or did not survive. Making the decision to use “appropriate force” day in and day our takes its toll. Today let us lift these men and women who sacrifice up in prayer that God will take care of them as only He can.
Well said, Buddy. I know you’d agree that we need to let Jesus tell us what “appropriate force” means (through his life and teaching) rather than to have us superimpose on Jesus what we think should be done. You are in such a great place of ministry: a chaplain to those who are seeking to live in a place of potential danger for the protection of others.
This is a tension that Christians can have and still be united. Just because I lean toward the just war side doesn’t mean I can’t respect the lives and arguments of those brothers and sisters who have disagreed.
One of my elders (and a couple other guys at Highland) are policemen. They live in the tension of trying to hold back evil for the protection of the innocent. That has to take its toll. And every week, we remember in prayer that there are about eight children and spouses of Highland families in active duty.
But the prayers of the church aren’t for one nation alone. In baptism, the antecedent of “we” and “our” switched from a country or a political party to a group that knows no boundaries: those who name the name of Christ. Our primary prayer isn’t for one nation to be great but for the reign of Christ to break in more and more.
“Jesus is a vet”…
Clint that is the most beautiful phrase I’ve heard in a long time.
On this memorial day, it’s fitting to memorialize ALL the vets.
No sane person likes war. No one wants war (at least that I’ve ever known). But one only has to take a journey through the pages of the bible to see war and violent battles fought by those who love Him and in His name.
Take a visit to Pearl Harbor. Feel the crushing weight of grief and the lifting up of patriotism all at once.
Look through the lyrical book of Psalms and feel it too.
Amen. May we take the name of Christ everywhere!
Mike,
Thank you for remembering. Twenty years ago I visited with a grieving mother and father who had lost a son in the Battle of Iow Jima. That was over 40 years after the fact and as the mother clutched a picture of her son and told me the story of his death I was moved to tears. I realized that these two precious people, then in their eighties, were still grieving, had never stopped grieving for their son. As I was thinking back on that meeting, as I always do on Memorial Day, I just realized that their son was younger than my son who will receive his commission in the Air Force less than a year from now. Yesterday, I overheard a retiring Air Force officer regretting the fact that a number of young men in the Air Force were dying in Iraq, and it made me tremble. I don’t want to be one of those parents, but I am proud of my son, because I think I know his heart and I know he loves his country. I too have as many questions as answers about war, but today I choose to put the questions away and just be thankful that very young people gave up their youth, their future, their all, for every one of us.
Kelley - You brought up the heart of the issue for people seeking to live under the authority of scripture: the issue of continuity and discontinuity with the OT.
Here are the issues:
Since there isn’t a theocracy today (except for those who still consider Israel the nation of God), in what sense can any country incorporate those commands to the nation of Israel?
Since Jesus calls us to a new way (that is both LIKE and UNLIKE the old), is “turn the other cheek” and “love your enemy” to be understood as a kinder way to wage war . . . or a personal code of conduct that doesn’t apply in social/political realms . . . or a move toward pacifism? (As I’ve said, all through the ages, scripture-believing Christians have disagreed on this one. In the early church, many said one couldn’t be a Christian and serve as a soldier. But what we’d like to know more about is how much of that was because of the idolatrous associations with serving in the army of Caesar and how much was because they found it completely inconsistent with following Jesus.)
- - - -
I’m probably out of blogging for the rest of the day. Thanks for the discussion. I’m sure there will be more interaction between the interpretations of pacifism and strict just war (which, as I’ve said, I lean towards) in the future. Perhaps we can model a way to discuss this.
- - - -
Coming up: the match game. Chris let me know a couple days ago that this was the day he was going to beat me, one-on-one, in basketball. He was the point guard for the 7th grade team that won the city championship — so, yeah, he can beat me in HORSE or PIG all day long. But up until now, not in one-on-one. We’ve played two games. It’s now 1-1. The final game is coming up. Cheer me on — and someone let Butch (Highland orthopedic doc) know he might be getting a call from me at any time.
Go Mike!!…Chris is gonna whoop ya though!!
Thank you, Mike, for these Memorial Day thoughts. IMO, you are correct when you write:
***
we have all benefitted from the courage and sacrifice of those who have fought for freedom.
***
A special memory has played a significant role in shaping my thoughts on Memorial Day for about 35 years now. I distinctly remember attending only a few funerals, as a young person. The most vivid memories are of attending the funeral service of my eighteen year old cousin in Amarillo, Texas. He was killed in August of 1971. His helicopter was shot down in Vietnam.
Each year, when Memorial Day rolls around, I am transported back to the day of his memorial service. His immediate family members were so devastated. I was weeks away from turning thirteen and swimming in a sea of conflicting emotions. I remember sitting through the service with my cousin staring at me from the framed, glossy photograph, which was displayed on a table next to his flag-draped casket.
A few years ago, I found his name engraved in the Vietnam Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C. I was not prepared for the emotional impact of this moment. Not just because I found his name, but because I found his name amidst so many others—more that 58,000 other names. So, as we remember those who have given life and limb for our freedom, let us remember that each one was someone’s daughter, son, brother, sister, husband, wife, cousin or friend. Let us remember, also, there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
Hello again Mike,
When you wrote, “The rule of God has, indeed, broken in — again and again, but especially through the ministry of Jesus. But it has not become fully realized on earth as it is in heaven,” what scripture were you thinking of to corroborate it?
Colossians 1:13 says, “For he has rescued us out of the darkness and gloom of Satan’s kingdom and brought us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.” TLB
Is Paul not saying the Kingdom was currently present? I cannot find any passages that talk about the Kingdom coming in gradually. I would appreciate very much you pointing them out to me.
Thanks for your help!
John
You always tackle the tough stuff don’t you Mike?! You have the best discussions here!
Thank you for remembering and being grateful for the sacrifices made so you and I can type what we want and not fear death because of what we say. This really is a tough issue and one I’m choosing not to disect today. I just want to remember and honor those who died for my freedom…including Jesus.
God bless all of you who have served over the years and protected those of us who don’t always understand or appreciate the sacrifice!
I greatly admire those who served in World War II. But comparing WWII to Vietnam or Iraq isn’t always correct (which I’m sure most of you would agree with).
I have a classmate at Harding (and Mike you’re right, there’s not much pacifism left here) who returned from Iraq with shrapnel permanently imbedded in his back. I greatly admire his bravery and honest commitment to something he believes in. I however believe that the war in Iraq has done (and will continue to do) much more to damage the United States (and possibly the Iraqi people in the longrun, though this is harder to predict) than the good it has brought. So at the same moment I admire my friend’s bravery, but believe the collective actions of our soldiers (and our President who sends them to war) often do more damage than good.
So how do I ’support the troops’? I for one don’t debate the Iraq war with my friend out of respect for his sacrifice, but I do everything possible to speak out against our government’s dangerous neconservative foreign policy and the militarism that pervades our society and churches.
If you were a Christian living in Germany during the spring of 1945, would you have fought to defend your country from the Americans? from the Russians? What about an Iraqi Christian (and I’m sure there were some) resisting the American invaders? And if those Christians on both sides are fighting and killing each other, isnt’ that the ultimate absurdity when related to Christ’s teaching?
Kathy~
Blessings as you think through these issues.
For a *very* short (and cheap) book that discusses the myriad of different pacifist stances, and even delves into your home invasion question, I highly (as in order it from Amazon today!) recommend John Howard Yoder’s “What Would You Do.”
Again, be blessed,
russ
A pacifist who admires or appreciates a person, who willingly signs up to kill, is no longer a pacifist, but a hypocrite. How can you be against the rape of a child and appreciate a pedophile? But I guess that would not be politically correct.
God bless every person who served in the military honorably.
Wow clint, thanks for the harsh false dichotomy. Comparing things with pedophilia is always productive. As I said, I admire my friend’s bravery (willingness to go against his own fear and possibly sacrifice his life), as well as his ‘honest commitment to something he believes in.’ I may disagree with the rightness (or morality if you like) of those actions, but can appreciate his sincerity on the same level that I admire the religious fervor of the Crusaders. The devotion to the ’cause’ is impressive- the end result is disastrous.
I met a soldier in Croatia once who told me about fighting for his country in the mid 90’s- he was a tank commander. He honestly believed he should fight for ‘his country’ and ‘his people’ in a battle of ‘us vs. them.’ I admire his dedication in the same way, but I don’t think I should hold the same categories of ‘us’ and ‘them’ as a Christian, and kill for one side. I don’t think mixing admiration and criticism makes me a hypocrite- maybe a sensitive realist trying to affect change in a humble way?
Clint, would you say “God bless every person who served in *any* military honorably.”?
John, if I might answer for myself… not for Mike… concerning the “breaking in” of the Kingdom.
I don’t think there is a scriptural “corroboration” for this idea, rather, it’s a matter of reason. We know, as you point out, that the Kingdom has come… scripture assures us of that. But scripture also lets us know that one day “every knee shall bow…” and that clearly hasn’t yet occured. In an outstanding book by Lee Camp (from Lipscomb) called “Mere Discipleship” (which I recommend to everyone I meet) there is a clear metaphor for our current situation:
A woman who is in her 8th month of pregnancy does not yet “have a baby” in that she can not hold it in her arms or feed it or snap photos of it… HOWEVER, in another sense, she DOES have a baby– she eats differently, walks differently, sleeps differently and lives in all ways as one who acknowledges the presence of a new child.
We live in such a time. The Kingdom is a reality– and we live by that reality… we are “salt and light.” But last time I checked, not every knee was bowed. We live in the Kingdom, and also look expectantly for its continued “breaking in” to the kingdoms and powers of this world.
Hope that was helpful…
Amen
Thanks, Russ
I’m ordering the suggested book.
And I echo your siggy,
Blessings!
Kathy
As we remember the sacrifices these soldiers have made and perhaps some question whether they should have been asked to make, remember that among them are preachers helping them to deal with these very questions. As a military chaplain and former local church preacher who has worked with racially integrated churches my entire adult life, I am frankly amused by people who want to apologize for the church’s stance on racism but attend segregated congregations, by preachers with M.Div.’s or equivalent who speakly loudly in support of the war, but don’t ask how they can serve in a time where the number of chaplains serving is far below what is needed, especially in the reserve components. The need for chaplains endorsed by churches of Christ is critical right now. So, if you’re under forty, have the requisite education, and are in good health, check into it. Our churches have been represented by great military chaplains in the past (John Stevens of ACU, for example) and in the present. We need more now. Sorry if this sounds like a commercial, but our soldiers need spiritual help as they encounter moral issues and brutal, bloody experiences, as they struggle to do the right thing under immense pressure very far from home.
Michael,
I can’t speak for all the M.Div.’s since I don’t even have one, but maybe one reason why the church of Christ is historically underrepresented in military chaplains is because of the strong historical strand of pacifism in those churches. Maybe a lot of the M.Div’s have a hard time justifying those actions. But as for those preachers who do speak strongly in support of the war- I think you’re right. They really should go along and sign up.
Hi Scott:
You wrote, “I don’t think there is a scriptural “corroboration” for this idea, rather, it’s a matter of reason. We know, as you point out, that the Kingdom has come… scripture assures us of that. But scripture also lets us know that one day “every knee shall bow…” and that clearly hasn’t yet occured.”
I agree, every knee has not yet bowed, but doesn’t Romans 14:10-12 teach that it will be at the final judgment that all knees shall bow?
Are you saying that because every knee hasn’t bowed to Christ that His kingdom, therefore, cannot have come?
I look forward to your reply, and I hope Mike will comment as well.
All the best of the evening!
John
Brett,
Very perceptive. I specifically mentioned those in favor of the war, because I am aware of the pacifist undercurrent. When a student at Freed-Hardeman, I delivered on paper on Christian participation in war to a seminar of Bible majors. I too had been vexed, but came to a decision that participation given certain guidelines was acceptable. The vast majority of the class were pacifists. While at Harding Grad School of Religion, I myself told a chaplain candidate that “I will never be a military chaplain,” (Never say never) so I understand that theological positions and misunderstanding of chaplain ministry can dissuade some from volunteering. Now, Brett, have you ever thought about getting that M.Div.?(Just joking, sort of).
John,
I’d like to hear what Mike has to say on this as well. My sense of things, as well as Lee Camp’s (as I understand his scholarship) is that the Kingdom has come– fully. HOWEVER… because of God’s great grace and his desire that ALL should be saved, judgement has not yet been fully rendered (as you say… final judgement hasn’t yet happened). That places you and me in the position of being Christ’s “ambassadors” to a world that doesn’t realize that a new order or Kingdom has come. For God to finalize this and, in essence demand that all knees bow, the lost would be fully and finally lost.
We live in a precarious and wonderful time… We know that the Kingdom has come and we LIVE in that reality SO THAT others can come to realize God’s nature and the nature of his Kingdom BEFORE final judgement.
When people come to taste the “salt” or see the “light” displayed in our lives and their actions or understanding changes… the Kingdom has broken in by the power of God through his people.
I don’t intend to represent Lee Camp or Mike with any of these statements… only my own understanding. But I hope this has been helpful. I do strongly recommend that you pick up a copy of Mere Discipleship by Lee Camp for further reading on the subject!
Thanks for the good discussion brother!
Blessings!
Michael,
I’m not exactly a ‘pure pacifist’ either- I’m still working this out. I guess you could say I can see why a government should intervene to preserve itself- why Britain could fight against Germany during WWII- or to prevent a great evil- why intervention that would have prevented the Rwandan genocide, the Jewish Holocaust, or any of the countless others in the 21st century would be justifiable. I’m not as certain about whether Christians should carry guns in those conflicts (and to me these questions are not one and the same).
A problem arises because not all (or any?) conflicts are as ‘clear cut’ in reality as they are in hypotheticals or historical discussion. If humanitarianism or justice are our true motivations in the intervention in Iraq, then why there and not North Korea, Darfur, or (especially) the Democratic Republic of the Congo? But this gets much more into issues of political science (which I’m studying) and less into theology. If a Christian can fight in a ‘just’ war, then does anything separate them from participation in ‘unjust’ wars other than the political justification?
I’d love to get an M.Div., but after Harding I’ll be pursuing medical and public health degrees to do international work that to me isn’t as morally ambiguous (helping the poor). But maybe I’ll squeeze an M.Div in there somewhere…..
Mike, great comments. We must remember what the day is about. What the day is for and that it isn’t about the great sells, cookouts, a day off but it is a time of rememberance. Remembering the men and women who have given their live so that we have the freedom to assemble, the freedom of speech, and all the other many freedoms we enjoy. Let us know how precious our freedom is both as Americans and Christians.
The issue of war is vexing if only because humanity is entirely too fond of it. And while it is helpful to confine “moral” war to the defensive use of it, the definition of “defensive” is too easily co-opted into a near-synomyn of offensive. See “preemptive war of choice.” That’s why the too-easy transition of the holiday from a time of reflection to a pep rally of partisan patriotism is something to be strongly resisted.
Those of us who have served, and are alive to reflect on that service, tend to look back hoping that our small contributions in national service made some real difference. In short, we hope we mattered.
And not all of our wars have been good ones. Not the Mexican War. Not the Spanish-American War. Both were no more than wars to annex territory. And not many of our “good wars” have been unambiguously so: the “War Hawks” selling war with Britain in 1812 as another opportunity to invade Canada. Not to mention our various “interventions” in Central America and the Carribean. And, if anything, our participation in WWI made it possible for communism to survive in Russia, creating its own cold war that lasted 60 years. Even our “good wars” - the War of Independence, the Civil War, and the Second World War - were not fought ideally and without unnecessary innocents harmed. The history of our nation’s wars is not one of unbridled moral supremacy. No history of war ever is, but, in some cases, it is a history of resolving to do well and hoping that some abiding good came out of it.
No, Memorial Day, is not a day for patriotism. Leave that for Independece Day. It is rather a day to reflect upon sacrifice - well-meaning or not, successful or not - and how to avoid such sacrifice in the future. We owe it to them to ensure that no life is ever lost unnecessarily in the service of country, and that the desire to serve others is preserved and remembered not as a memory in a graveyard but as a living legacy giving to many generations. The nearly 2,500 dead in the present conflict are a call to remember their resolve and the desire to do better for others, but it would be so much better to have these men and women here with us as living stones in the early days of a better nation. Let us resolve to ensure that their service, like all those before them, mattered.
One of the most influential leaders of his time, David Lipscomb once said, “When we say that God cares for us, protects us and leads us in the ways of safety and peace, and yet rely on human governments, human arms, death dealing human weapons for protection, our conduct seems to contradict our confession.”*
The Churches of Christ, are not so pacifistic anymore. We have gone “mainstream” and we have bought into the whole idea of the Christian nation, and patriotic duty.
What do we do with John 18:36 where Jesus says, “…My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but my kingdom is not of this world?”
If Jesus declared that his Kingdom was not of this world and would not let his followers fight on his behalf – by what right do Christians take up arms for any earthly kingdom or cause?
I know that this is a sensitive issue because Christian men and women are are serving bravely in the armed forces. But I think this is a topic that should be given some open discussion.
* David Lipscomb, “Should Christians Use Carnal Weapons?” Gospel Advocate, 30 July 1884, page 486.
Good Morning Scott:
I also appreciate our discussion, and like you, I look forward to Mike’s comments on the subject.
I pray that your day will be blessed also!
John
Brett, Bob, and J. Pierpont (et al. if I’ve missed any),
Great comments. We need continued thoughtful discussion on this topic. I firmly believe that as Christians, we should “seek peace, and pursue it.” Another note: our Army does not permit its chaplains to carry weapons. It makes that job more dangerous, and requires others to defend the chaplain, but allows some who will not bear arms to engage in ministry to young men and women who are under tremendous stress.
That’s interesting Michael. I always assumed the role of a chaplain was similar to a medic- carriyng a weapon but ready to take care of the wounded (of course, not having been in the army, that’s an assumption too). If you’re not carrying a weapon, what exactly do you do? Do you ‘minister’ full time, and if so, would you go into active combat, or on ‘patrol’?
If one believes killing another human is immoral though, supporting those who do it would be like acting as an accomplice to an immoral act. Another example- I do physics research for NASA through Harding, developing spectrometers as sensors to make hybrid rocket motors more efficient. I’ve thought this through, and I don’t believe the technology I’m developing has a serious military use- like cruise missiles or ICBMs- so I don’t have moral qualms with it. I would however have a problem developing technology that would be used in a nuclear warhead or other weapons that necessitate civilians casualties in their usage. I have an engineer friend who just graduated, who is interested in working on aerospace technology, including nukes, based on the logic that “if our country does it, it must be necessary, and therefore moral.” I find that opinion naive and rather frightening…
Through that sort of logic, a lot of people who are conscientious objectors to bearing arms would likewise object to playing a support role to the military.
I have friends who are vets and family members who are vets. War is not good and has not been good for any of them. After reading the discussion about what Jesus would do and not do, and what is right and wrong,I would have to say there should be some things upon which we can agree:
1. We should pray for our military. No matter what you think about the war, they deserve that. We should pray for their souls and their health and their families. That they come home safe and safely.
2. We should pray for our enemies. Not that they would have a nice day or have good aim or be successful in their missions, but that they would learn of Jesus and be saved by his grace. By some mysterious turn of that grace, I was born into a family which believed in Jesus and I learned about him there. For that I am eternally grateful and I thank the Lord for it. Others have not been so blessed. I am convinced that when our enemies are saved by Jesus, the war will be over. Is that worth praying for?
3. We should pray for our leaders and the leaders of all nations and even terrorist organizations, that they would be led by God’s will and become servants of Jesus. It is terrible and frightening that our soldiers and those of our enemies may be going to judgement without the grace of Jesus. As Christians, if either one of those events is OK, there is something really, really wrong. There is no place for hatred in Jesus.
4. We should pray for ourselves that we would learn to love all men, including our enemies, that we would be instruments for peace in God’s hands. We, who may not risk our lives in battle, should be sensitive to those who do. We should be careful that our words, regardless of the good or bad politics, will not wound those who are serving in our military, nor wound their families who miss them and love them and worry that they will never come back. What would Jesus do? He would love everyone, including our enemies, enough that he would want them in heaven with him. He would be sensitive to those who are hurting. He would care, really care, about the lost. What would the world of Islam think if we prayed for their souls in the same breath with prayers for our soldiers every day? What would the Lord God of the universe think about that, and what might he do with that?
I don’t mean to bring offense, but I really hope these are things upon which we can agree.
As a veteran of the Vietnam War I pray that my young grandson will never have to face the horrors of war. Especially unnecessary wars of choice, chosen by men who avoided war themselves when their country called them.
I honor those who have fallen. I was one who got to come home when it was over.
For some reason this comment keeps getting caught in moderation filter. Maybe this try will make it. Here’s what I wrote on Memorial Day:
Thank you, Mike, for your thoughtful post this Memorial Day.
You are correct, IMO, when you observe that regardless of what a person thinks about war related issues that “we have all benefitted from the courage and sacrifice of those who have fought for freedom.”
I distinctly remember attending only a few funerals, as a young person. The most vivid memories are of attending the funeral service of my eighteen year old cousin, Gail Lynn Strickland, in Amarillo, Texas. He was killed on August 12, 1971. His helicopter was shot down in Vietnam.
Each year, when Memorial Day rolls around, I am transported back to the day of his memorial service. His immediate family members were so devastated. I was weeks away from turning thirteen and swimming in a sea of conflicting emotions. I remember sitting through the service with my cousin staring at me from the framed, glossy photograph, which was displayed on a table next to his flag-draped casket.
A few years ago, I found his name engraved in the Vietnam Memorial Wall in Washington, D.C. I was not prepared for the emotional impact of this moment. Not just because I found his name, but because I found his name amidst so many others—more that 58,000 other names.
So, as we remember those who have given life and limb for our freedom, let us remember that each one was someone’s daughter, son, brother, sister, husband, wife, cousin or friend. Let us remember, also, there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for his friends.
Brett,
Chaplains do sometimes go on patrol; they go where soldiers are. Wisdom sometimes dictates where they go, but several chaplains have been awarded the Medal of Honor for pulling and carrying several wounded soldiers to safety under heavy enemy fire. Some of them were killed while saving the others. Chaplains also teach (about suicide prevention, sexual harassment prevention), counsel, advise commanders (on ethics, morals, indigenous religious customs, etc.), and preach what they believe. As was General George Washington’s intent, chaplains also often have a calming affect on soldiers merely by their presence, even on their choice of vocabulary. Some chaplains work primarily in hospitals, others serve in support units, some jump out of perfectly good airplanes, but mostly they try to put in a good word for God.
It’s hard to avoid conflict of interest. Paying taxes, for example, funds our military.
Mike,
I just noticed that the link to my website is wrong. This has not always been the case and I don’t know when it happened. My site is http://www.michaelwaymonsummers.blogspot.com, not blogsite.com. By the way, I really appreciate the fellowship provided by your site.
Thanks.
Hi Mike:
I know you’re busy, but I want to remind you of my earlier entry and question:
Hello again Mike,
When you wrote, “The rule of God has, indeed, broken in — again and again, but especially through the ministry of Jesus. But it has not become fully realized on earth as it is in heaven,” what scripture were you thinking of to corroborate it?
Colossians 1:13 says, “For he has rescued us out of the darkness and gloom of Satan’s kingdom and brought us into the Kingdom of his dear Son.” TLB
Is Paul not saying the Kingdom was currently present? I cannot find any passages that talk about the Kingdom coming in gradually. I would appreciate very much you pointing them out to me.
Thanks for your help!
John
To John-
Mike is at the Zoe conference in Colorado. Having heard him speak about this from the pulpit may times, perhaps I can give you part of an answer. I don’t presume to put words in Mike’s mouth (and he can disclaim any knowledge of this incident). Maybe what Mike means is that, in the “Lord’s Prayer”, Jesus said “Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.” There is an indication that things on earth did not and do not follow God’s will in every sense. Carry that a step further and think about the Kingdom. Jesus said the Kingdom was “among you”, and his kingdom was “not of this world” then the Kingdom came with power in Acts 2. The kingdom came in my life on December 1, 1969, when I committed myself to Jesus. There are many, many souls for which the kingdom has not yet come, because thay have not experienced it and know nothing about it. I think of it like the electricity industry. It exists (for over 100 years now), it has revolutionized everything it touched, but there are many places in the world where it is not present.
A kingdom is a place with an accepted ruler, so it is also right to say “His kingdom is in me.”, or “His kingdom is coming.” I don’t believe his kingdom will be fully come until the end of time, when his will is always done, everywhere.
Mike speaks of the kingdom “breaking out” and “breaking forth” and “breaking in” as new people submit to his kingship, and God works in people’s lives. Sometimes that happens through institutional church and sometimes it happens in other ways.
Becoming a citizen of the kingdom means this world is no longer my real home, and I am no longer the boss. I have become a laborer and alien.
Has the kingdom come? Yes.
Is the kingdom coming now? Yes.
Will it be coming in the future? Yes. (How about that—intro to conjugation!)
Matthew is rich with kingdom narratives, and I think this post seems to fit with all those narratives, but Mike may chime in when he gets back and disavow any knowledge of my actions….
G’ampa C,
First, thanks very much for responding. You wrote,
“A kingdom is a place with an accepted ruler, so it is also right to say “His kingdom is in me.”, or “His kingdom is coming.” I don’t believe his kingdom will be fully come until the end of time, when his will is always done, everywhere.”
How do you come to this conclusion in light of 1 Cor. 15:20-26? In the end, that is when Christ returns, He will return the Kingdom to the Father. Christ’s reign is now, not in the future.
I appreciate your thoughts on this, and I would love to have Mike wade in. Are you home yet?
1 Cor. 15:20-26
“But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. Then comes the end , when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.”
Thanks for your time!
John
John-
I believe the text you quoted to be consistent with the Kingdom past, present and future. The place where the kingdom lies is our hearts, our souls, every bit of us when we have turned it over to him. Will he raise some organized religion when he makes us alive at the end, or will he raise us? It is us, because that is where his kingdom exists, not a kingdom of this world. If he has not returned, say, by the year 2100, will people still be making him their king? I hope so. But that will mean some of his kingdom is still to come. He is my king, so I am part of his kingdom now. When the day comes where he raises all who have died, but who have appointed him in their hearts as king, then he will present us to his Father. What a day that will be…..
Hi Gampa’C:
Quoting from your earlier writing, “I don’t believe his kingdom will be fully come until the end of time, when his will is always done, everywhere.”
Is what you are saying that there cannot be a kingdom until all who will be born into that kingdom have been born into it?
When the Lord returns, He will hand the Kingdom back to God the Father. As such, it will no longer be His. Is this not correct? Do you accept that Jesus has authority over all mankind, whether they accept that authority or not?
Thanks for studying with me!
John
John-
I think the kingdom exists now in all who allow him to be lord (”the kingdom is within you…”). Those who will make that commitment 50 or 100 or 1000 years from now (if the world lasts that long) will be added to his kingdom. You seem to be wanting it to be an organized thing like a country, but I don’t see it that way. I see it as a personal lordship in each of us which is added to the host of all who have made him their king. At the end of time, all those who ever will become his subjects will be gathered, so it will be fully come. Then all things will be subject to him, and he will bring us to the Father. At the final judgement, every knee shall bow to him, and every tongue confess he is Lord of all, because at the Judgement, there will be only truth.
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