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	<title>Comments on: Did You Hear the One about the Monk . . . ?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk</link>
	<description>Sniffing out the work of God in the world...</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dan Smith</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12546</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 04:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12546</guid>
		<description>To all,
About the best book I've read on TC is "The Formation of the Christian Biblical Canon, revised &#38; expanded edition" by Lee M McDonald, ISBN 1-56563-052-1. 
FWIW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all,<br />
About the best book I&#8217;ve read on TC is &#8220;The Formation of the Christian Biblical Canon, revised &amp; expanded edition&#8221; by Lee M McDonald, ISBN 1-56563-052-1.<br />
FWIW</p>
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		<title>By: Richard DAVID RAMSEY</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12074</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard DAVID RAMSEY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 19:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12074</guid>
		<description>You are tracking well with Hegel and Marx, but the profit margin in Bibles is too thin or nonexistent fully to explain the late 20th century phenomenon of the avalanche of translations.  Additionally, the translations which are not under copyright, or for which permission is cheaply delivered, can be obtained free by the consumer.

In the meantime some communities of Christendom have been experiencing weekly internecine unpleasantness over whether God's name is "hallowed" or "holy" and describable as "thy" or "your."  If for nigh unto four centuries people have been able to say the Lord's prayer the same way (at least in the same church), why rattle them?  This sort of squabble is a work of the Devil.  Virtually all the enduring hymns were written on the phraseology of established translations ("Great is THY faithfulness").  For these and other reasons, much of the effect of the plethora of modernized versions is to help confuse or efface the once-common grasp of biblical quotations and allusions.

You are indeed perceptive concerning the DA VINCI CODE.  In amplification of your empirical observations, let us note certain grammatical, stylistic, organizational, and substantive errors, as well as other peculiarities, together with the frontispiece claim that it's all "accurate."  Yet a more penetrating analysis--unnoticed since the book's publication but now coming evermore to light as Brent has probed into the economic motives for the tome and its ecclesiological adherents and detractors--lends credence to a view that the narrative has evolved in various places and times and that it seems to be a blend of at least four different perspectives, contributing to doublets and even triplets in the discourse.  This analysis shall henceforth be dubbed the Brent-David documentary hypothesis (BDDH), which began from your self-evident exposure to Hegelian economic theory.  BDDH will have absolutely no practical application to the needs of lost and dying humanity, but it will possess the potential to get the Brownians at each other's throats while it gets our mentees tenure in prestigious institutions laden with eggheads.

"I am a sinful man, O Lord."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are tracking well with Hegel and Marx, but the profit margin in Bibles is too thin or nonexistent fully to explain the late 20th century phenomenon of the avalanche of translations.  Additionally, the translations which are not under copyright, or for which permission is cheaply delivered, can be obtained free by the consumer.</p>
<p>In the meantime some communities of Christendom have been experiencing weekly internecine unpleasantness over whether God&#8217;s name is &#8220;hallowed&#8221; or &#8220;holy&#8221; and describable as &#8220;thy&#8221; or &#8220;your.&#8221;  If for nigh unto four centuries people have been able to say the Lord&#8217;s prayer the same way (at least in the same church), why rattle them?  This sort of squabble is a work of the Devil.  Virtually all the enduring hymns were written on the phraseology of established translations (&#8221;Great is THY faithfulness&#8221;).  For these and other reasons, much of the effect of the plethora of modernized versions is to help confuse or efface the once-common grasp of biblical quotations and allusions.</p>
<p>You are indeed perceptive concerning the DA VINCI CODE.  In amplification of your empirical observations, let us note certain grammatical, stylistic, organizational, and substantive errors, as well as other peculiarities, together with the frontispiece claim that it&#8217;s all &#8220;accurate.&#8221;  Yet a more penetrating analysis&#8211;unnoticed since the book&#8217;s publication but now coming evermore to light as Brent has probed into the economic motives for the tome and its ecclesiological adherents and detractors&#8211;lends credence to a view that the narrative has evolved in various places and times and that it seems to be a blend of at least four different perspectives, contributing to doublets and even triplets in the discourse.  This analysis shall henceforth be dubbed the Brent-David documentary hypothesis (BDDH), which began from your self-evident exposure to Hegelian economic theory.  BDDH will have absolutely no practical application to the needs of lost and dying humanity, but it will possess the potential to get the Brownians at each other&#8217;s throats while it gets our mentees tenure in prestigious institutions laden with eggheads.</p>
<p>&#8220;I am a sinful man, O Lord.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12040</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 13:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12040</guid>
		<description>$$$$$$$$$$$

Everyone wants a piece of the pie that is the world's largest seller.  We see the same thing taking place with all the publishers that are taking advantage of Dan Brown's success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$$$$$$$$$$$</p>
<p>Everyone wants a piece of the pie that is the world&#8217;s largest seller.  We see the same thing taking place with all the publishers that are taking advantage of Dan Brown&#8217;s success.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard DAVID RAMSEY</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12032</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard DAVID RAMSEY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 03:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12032</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Brent.  Good references, + a zillion other viewpoints such as George W. Anderson (A CRITICAL INTRODUCTION TO THE OLD TESTAMENT) and F. F. Bruce (THE NEW TESTAMENT DOCUMENTS: ARE THEY RELIABLE?).  But why the avalanche of translations (in English alone) since the 1940s?  Despite the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc, is any sane person of a mind that the world is better than it was prior to the RSV?  Every time you sneeze someone has come out with another one, complete with preface about the "need" for a new translation.  Translations are abounding in inverse correlation to public knowledge of the word of God.  

--David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Brent.  Good references, + a zillion other viewpoints such as George W. Anderson (A CRITICAL INTRODUCTION TO THE OLD TESTAMENT) and F. F. Bruce (THE NEW TESTAMENT DOCUMENTS: ARE THEY RELIABLE?).  But why the avalanche of translations (in English alone) since the 1940s?  Despite the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc, is any sane person of a mind that the world is better than it was prior to the RSV?  Every time you sneeze someone has come out with another one, complete with preface about the &#8220;need&#8221; for a new translation.  Translations are abounding in inverse correlation to public knowledge of the word of God.  </p>
<p>&#8211;David</p>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12027</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 20:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12027</guid>
		<description>Ooops.  The Text of the New Testament : Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration -- by Bruce M. Metzger, Bart D. Ehrman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops.  The Text of the New Testament : Its Transmission, Corruption, and Restoration &#8212; by Bruce M. Metzger, Bart D. Ehrman</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12026</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 20:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12026</guid>
		<description>David,

Scholars use a number of methods for determining the reliability of a text, age being one of them.

Concerning the Vulgate and the Textus Receptus, I recommend  -- by Bruce M. Metzger, Bart D. Ehrman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Scholars use a number of methods for determining the reliability of a text, age being one of them.</p>
<p>Concerning the Vulgate and the Textus Receptus, I recommend  &#8212; by Bruce M. Metzger, Bart D. Ehrman.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard DAVID RAMSEY</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12016</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard DAVID RAMSEY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 06:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-12016</guid>
		<description>Is the issue of the authority of the manuscripts really that simple---just get the earliest one in the original language and consider it the grandma of the others?  

Yet what was Jerome looking at when he translated manuscripts into Latin as the Vulgate in the 5th Century C.E.?  Weren't the manuscripts Jerome used older than many of the manuscripts discovered later? Additionally, did not Erasmus have access to, and consider and even use, much of the same corpus of manuscripts in delivering the Textus Receptus, which forms the basis of the Authorized King James Version?  Can Jerome's Vulgate be easily dismissed when it is actually older than some manuscripts used in modern translations and in view of the fact that Jerome must have had manuscripts no longer extant when he did his work?  

I'm just trying to learn.

--David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is the issue of the authority of the manuscripts really that simple&#8212;just get the earliest one in the original language and consider it the grandma of the others?  </p>
<p>Yet what was Jerome looking at when he translated manuscripts into Latin as the Vulgate in the 5th Century C.E.?  Weren&#8217;t the manuscripts Jerome used older than many of the manuscripts discovered later? Additionally, did not Erasmus have access to, and consider and even use, much of the same corpus of manuscripts in delivering the Textus Receptus, which forms the basis of the Authorized King James Version?  Can Jerome&#8217;s Vulgate be easily dismissed when it is actually older than some manuscripts used in modern translations and in view of the fact that Jerome must have had manuscripts no longer extant when he did his work?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m just trying to learn.</p>
<p>&#8211;David</p>
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		<title>By: Ty Lovell</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11996</link>
		<dc:creator>Ty Lovell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 14:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11996</guid>
		<description>Don't ever get up coaching little league.. during grad school I would go from my theology classes to trying to help a fatherless, low income friend accross treadway believe there was a God who loved him. It did well to balance out the much needed classroom experience...I love it. Textual Criticism and little league. In the middle is a good sermon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t ever get up coaching little league.. during grad school I would go from my theology classes to trying to help a fatherless, low income friend accross treadway believe there was a God who loved him. It did well to balance out the much needed classroom experience&#8230;I love it. Textual Criticism and little league. In the middle is a good sermon.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Brenton</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11985</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Brenton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 May 2006 23:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11985</guid>
		<description>I couldn't quite fathom why having text in all capitals with no puncutation could cause difficulties until one of my Bible instructors pointed out an example in English:

JESUSISNOWHERE

Okay, which is it?

Now here?

Or nowhere?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t quite fathom why having text in all capitals with no puncutation could cause difficulties until one of my Bible instructors pointed out an example in English:</p>
<p>JESUSISNOWHERE</p>
<p>Okay, which is it?</p>
<p>Now here?</p>
<p>Or nowhere?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11939</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 19:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11939</guid>
		<description>Mike,

If you have the time, can you let me know what translation most likely reflects what was originally written, according to most scholars?

mail: jeff (at) jefferywhite.com

Thank you!

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>If you have the time, can you let me know what translation most likely reflects what was originally written, according to most scholars?</p>
<p>mail: jeff (at) jefferywhite.com</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11934</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 17:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11934</guid>
		<description>Few Biblical scholars can preach consistently as well as Mike.  It may be because it is a gift to be able to know what an audience needs to hear, as oppossed to what a scholar wants to preach.  We need both!  Lynn Anderson wrote a very good article on this in Wineskins several years ago.  We need both.  Occassionally you will hear a scholar that really should be a preacher, and a preacher who really should be a scholar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Few Biblical scholars can preach consistently as well as Mike.  It may be because it is a gift to be able to know what an audience needs to hear, as oppossed to what a scholar wants to preach.  We need both!  Lynn Anderson wrote a very good article on this in Wineskins several years ago.  We need both.  Occassionally you will hear a scholar that really should be a preacher, and a preacher who really should be a scholar.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11908</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 14:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11908</guid>
		<description>It's always a bit intimidating to be with someone like Mike in the classroom. For one thing -- he's way older than I am, and it shows. But also, he's just really sharp and thoughtful. He gets all the deep issues of NT textual criticism. If he hadn't been lured away by the seductive glamor of the pulpit, he could have made a fine textual critic...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s always a bit intimidating to be with someone like Mike in the classroom. For one thing &#8212; he&#8217;s way older than I am, and it shows. But also, he&#8217;s just really sharp and thoughtful. He gets all the deep issues of NT textual criticism. If he hadn&#8217;t been lured away by the seductive glamor of the pulpit, he could have made a fine textual critic&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Young</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11882</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 04:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11882</guid>
		<description>Hey, Mike. I just started reading your blog and I really like it. Although I have to say I'll just leave the textual criticism to you. I'm glad you like it, and I'll just trust you as my pastor to preach it right.

I think I'll stick with the good ol' TNIV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Mike. I just started reading your blog and I really like it. Although I have to say I&#8217;ll just leave the textual criticism to you. I&#8217;m glad you like it, and I&#8217;ll just trust you as my pastor to preach it right.</p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ll stick with the good ol&#8217; TNIV.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11880</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 21:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11880</guid>
		<description>Textual criticism is a field that fascinates me. I wish I had the expertise to "do" it myself, but as it stands I only have a rudimentary appreciation of all of the issues that are involved.

A related issue that interests me is this: if we conclude that a particular segment of text was NOT a part of the original writing (say, the latter part of Mark 16 or John's account of the woman caught in adultery), should we still consider that text to be canonical? In other words, if the original writer didn't write it, should we think of it as "part of the Bible"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Textual criticism is a field that fascinates me. I wish I had the expertise to &#8220;do&#8221; it myself, but as it stands I only have a rudimentary appreciation of all of the issues that are involved.</p>
<p>A related issue that interests me is this: if we conclude that a particular segment of text was NOT a part of the original writing (say, the latter part of Mark 16 or John&#8217;s account of the woman caught in adultery), should we still consider that text to be canonical? In other words, if the original writer didn&#8217;t write it, should we think of it as &#8220;part of the Bible&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Leland</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11878</link>
		<dc:creator>Leland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 19:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/2006/05/23/did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-monk#comment-11878</guid>
		<description>Mike,

As you study the Greek text, what are finding out you didn't already know? Is there something earth shattering revealed? For instance if we took a closer look at the Greek, we might have women elders? 

Do think what is gleened from this textual criticism is "nice to know" or is critical to our current way of doing things? 

Simply put, we used to do or think "A" but upon further review of the Greek text we now don't do "A."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>As you study the Greek text, what are finding out you didn&#8217;t already know? Is there something earth shattering revealed? For instance if we took a closer look at the Greek, we might have women elders? </p>
<p>Do think what is gleened from this textual criticism is &#8220;nice to know&#8221; or is critical to our current way of doing things? </p>
<p>Simply put, we used to do or think &#8220;A&#8221; but upon further review of the Greek text we now don&#8217;t do &#8220;A.&#8221;</p>
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