Comments on: Today’s NIV http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv Sniffing out the work of God in the world... Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:18:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: John Lambert http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-41337 John Lambert Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:18:36 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-41337 Google is the best search engine Google is the best search engine

]]> By: Michael Summers http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10959 Michael Summers Sat, 29 Apr 2006 00:06:02 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10959 I remember well when the NIV was savagely attacked in my congregation in 2005. The truly distressing element of the attack, which revealed it was not an attempt to preach the truth, was when an offer to preach about the weaknesses of the King James Version was greeted with horror and a curt refusal. More than half the congregation used the KJV, so it would have helped them more to hear about its weaknesses than that of a translation that they did not use. One of the deacons, who had used the NIV for twenty-five years and had been supervising Sunday School, left. I was teaching the auditorium class from the NIV, but was not consulted. I researched the attitudes of early restoration movement preachers towards the KJV while at Harding Graduate School. Almost all longed for a better translation. John Howard of Paris, Tennessee, was the only writer I could find who was a KJV only person. Tolbert Fanning thought it was the best available, but wanted something better. Alexander Campbell, Jacob Creath,Jr., and a host of other wrote in depth about the dangerous errors (thousands, they wrote) of the KJV. Yes, KJV only sentiment persists in parts of the Southeast. Why does it persist? When did this reversal of thought about the KJV begin? What do you think, Mike? I remember well when the NIV was savagely attacked in my congregation in 2005. The truly distressing element of the attack, which revealed it was not an attempt to preach the truth, was when an offer to preach about the weaknesses of the King James Version was greeted with horror and a curt refusal. More than half the congregation used the KJV, so it would have helped them more to hear about its weaknesses than that of a translation that they did not use. One of the deacons, who had used the NIV for twenty-five years and had been supervising Sunday School, left. I was teaching the auditorium class from the NIV, but was not consulted. I researched the attitudes of early restoration movement preachers towards the KJV while at Harding Graduate School. Almost all longed for a better translation. John Howard of Paris, Tennessee, was the only writer I could find who was a KJV only person. Tolbert Fanning thought it was the best available, but wanted something better. Alexander Campbell, Jacob Creath,Jr., and a host of other wrote in depth about the dangerous errors (thousands, they wrote) of the KJV. Yes, KJV only sentiment persists in parts of the Southeast. Why does it persist? When did this reversal of thought about the KJV begin? What do you think, Mike?

]]> By: Ryan Porche http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10905 Ryan Porche Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:49:24 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10905 Mike-- Way to use the Spanish language, amigo! Mike–

Way to use the Spanish language, amigo!

]]> By: Deb http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10877 Deb Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:39:02 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10877 Wow, so many great comments on such a fabulous topic! Thanks, Mike for this forum. I concur with your comment with regards to The Message. The day you posted this, my Bible study group began our study on Hosea. Well, when was the last time you read Hosea in The Message? Amongst some sweet little old English ladies (all tough as nuts because of The Blitz, and one about to turn 90!) I was asked to read Hosea 1 and 2. Why? Because they said that The Message had more dramatic zing when it was read with an American accent. ARGH! Not too long ago a couple of us teachers surreptitiously used the NIV in our Bible classes at a private Christian school. As children were first introduced to the school – many from homes of non-churched or other-churched families – they were presented with their very own Bible, but it was a KJV. For a lot of these children, English was their second language. As it was in the early ‘80’s a couple of us teachers felt the NIV was more appropriate. I lived in mortal fear for about two semesters before the school administrators found out and subsequently blessed the decision. Since that time, I have had my life blessed with the association of Wycliffe Bible translators. I spent more time recently with one translator at the Wycliffe centre here in the UK whose efforts are still focused with obscure tribes in the South Pacific. Once you spend time with these translators, quibbling becomes mere trivia. On one of your Blog posts, Mike, you highly recommended TNIV. So I researched it, and tried to find out how to get it in the UK. Amazon.co.uk is still the best source. However, one of the comments above mentioned how Zondervan was marketing this latest attempt for those who would never or rarely read the Bible. Well, the offerings I saw of TNIV are very outwardly trendy packages. I’m all for trying to get people to read and study the Bible. I just have an issue when a marketing campaign launches a product that seems to dumb down such a stalwart best seller. I was hoping to locate a TNIV Study Bible. However Zondervan seem to want to aim this towards a non-academic market initially. The TNIV Study Bible will be out in October, I believe? As to the issues of gender: 1. This seems to be an issue more with those who have not spent any time studying foreign languages and the cultures of these languages. 2. God made ALL of us in his image. When we finally get to see him, our studious and contentious definitions of all things masculine and all things feminine, and their validity within the glory of his kingdom, will be embarrassingly irrelevant. So until then, we need to embrace each other’s spiritual gifts and talents with more nobility and respect. Thanks! Wow, so many great comments on such a fabulous topic! Thanks, Mike for this forum.

I concur with your comment with regards to The Message. The day you posted this, my Bible study group began our study on Hosea. Well, when was the last time you read Hosea in The Message? Amongst some sweet little old English ladies (all tough as nuts because of The Blitz, and one about to turn 90!) I was asked to read Hosea 1 and 2. Why? Because they said that The Message had more dramatic zing when it was read with an American accent. ARGH!

Not too long ago a couple of us teachers surreptitiously used the NIV in our Bible classes at a private Christian school. As children were first introduced to the school – many from homes of non-churched or other-churched families – they were presented with their very own Bible, but it was a KJV. For a lot of these children, English was their second language. As it was in the early ‘80’s a couple of us teachers felt the NIV was more appropriate. I lived in mortal fear for about two semesters before the school administrators found out and subsequently blessed the decision.

Since that time, I have had my life blessed with the association of Wycliffe Bible translators. I spent more time recently with one translator at the Wycliffe centre here in the UK whose efforts are still focused with obscure tribes in the South Pacific. Once you spend time with these translators, quibbling becomes mere trivia.

On one of your Blog posts, Mike, you highly recommended TNIV. So I researched it, and tried to find out how to get it in the UK. Amazon.co.uk is still the best source. However, one of the comments above mentioned how Zondervan was marketing this latest attempt for those who would never or rarely read the Bible. Well, the offerings I saw of TNIV are very outwardly trendy packages. I’m all for trying to get people to read and study the Bible. I just have an issue when a marketing campaign launches a product that seems to dumb down such a stalwart best seller. I was hoping to locate a TNIV Study Bible. However Zondervan seem to want to aim this towards a non-academic market initially. The TNIV Study Bible will be out in October, I believe?

As to the issues of gender:
1. This seems to be an issue more with those who have not spent any time studying foreign languages and the cultures of these languages.
2. God made ALL of us in his image. When we finally get to see him, our studious and contentious definitions of all things masculine and all things feminine, and their validity within the glory of his kingdom, will be embarrassingly irrelevant. So until then, we need to embrace each other’s spiritual gifts and talents with more nobility and respect.

Thanks!

]]> By: Richard http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10875 Richard Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:47:45 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10875 I remember well the 70's when the NIV was savagely attacked at my church. Those were interesting days as a kid. I think that unfortunately the term "gender inclusive" is such a loaded term that if someone can successfully attach the term to the translation the damage has been done. I remember well the 70’s when the NIV was savagely attacked at my church. Those were interesting days as a kid. I think that unfortunately the term “gender inclusive” is such a loaded term that if someone can successfully attach the term to the translation the damage has been done.

]]> By: Kent http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10874 Kent Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:46:19 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10874 So I see all that time spent learning Spanish has been of some use to you. :-) So I see all that time spent learning Spanish has been of some use to you. :-)

]]> By: julie http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10873 julie Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:55:06 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10873 In January I went to an exhibit in St. Petersburg, Florida that was titled Ink and Blood. One the best exhibits that I have been to....fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls, leaves from the Gutenberg Bible, a reproduction of what they thought that press looked like and story after story about those who fought to bring the Bible into the common languages of the world. Many lost their lives trying to bring the Bible to the common people. It is still scary to people to bring change to how the Bible is translated. I love that people are still being brave about this process. In January I went to an exhibit in St. Petersburg, Florida that was titled Ink and Blood. One the best exhibits that I have been to….fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls, leaves from the Gutenberg Bible, a reproduction of what they thought that press looked like and story after story about those who fought to bring the Bible into the common languages of the world. Many lost their lives trying to bring the Bible to the common people. It is still scary to people to bring change to how the Bible is translated. I love that people are still being brave about this process.

]]> By: Tim Spivey http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10872 Tim Spivey Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:42:47 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10872 Mike...the TNIV has blessed me personally and those I am honored to preach to on Sundays. Thanks for addressing some of the concerns about this wonderful new translation. I'd be curious to know your thoughts on the ESV. Mike…the TNIV has blessed me personally and those I am honored to preach to on Sundays. Thanks for addressing some of the concerns about this wonderful new translation. I’d be curious to know your thoughts on the ESV.

]]> By: Leland http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10871 Leland Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:39:40 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10871 What's at stake if God was referred to using the feminine language? God is who he/she is regardless of what we conceive or think. I do not think God is waiting on the memo from the TNIV folks to get it right. Otherwise God is just a product of a self aware mind. What’s at stake if God was referred to using the feminine language?

God is who he/she is regardless of what we conceive or think. I do not think God is waiting on the memo from the TNIV folks to get it right.

Otherwise God is just a product of a self aware mind.

]]> By: Terry http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10870 Terry Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:00:36 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10870 The New Century Bible always says brothers and sisters, I've used that one for a long time. I got that new Archaeological Bible, small print and it weighs a ton, but I like it. Still drift back to the New Century when I study. The New Century Bible always says brothers and sisters, I’ve used that one for a long time. I got that new Archaeological Bible, small print and it weighs a ton, but I like it. Still drift back to the New Century when I study.

]]> By: Patty http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10869 Patty Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:38:06 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10869 Working with Bibles in other languages helped me understand some of the problem of getting a good translation even though I'm not well-versed in Greek or Hebrew. Sometimes, when going from an original language to a second (or third language) there is simply no way to express the original ideas without messing with the translation. In Africa, we had to decide whether to use the Bible that said to be baptised (sprinkled) or the one that said to be baptised (drowned). In French, there was a huge discussion over whether we should use the formal or the informal form of "you" when addressing God. Instead of looking at different translations as threats, perhaps we should look at them as man's (or should I say human-kind's) attempt to give the most accurate picture of the original. Instead of looking at the differences as carrying some hidden agenda, we can use them to enlighten us on the various meanings that are carried in the original texts. Verses that are translated differently are probably verses for which there is no perfect translation. The different versions of the Bible show us where translators have struggled to give us their best estimate of what the original word means. Translation always has its challenges, but I always appreciate an effort to give better nuances. I haven't read the TNIV yet, but today's discussion has intrigued me. Looking forward to a fresh look at God's message. Working with Bibles in other languages helped me understand some of the problem of getting a good translation even though I’m not well-versed in Greek or Hebrew. Sometimes, when going from an original language to a second (or third language) there is simply no way to express the original ideas without messing with the translation.
In Africa, we had to decide whether to use the Bible that said to be baptised (sprinkled) or the one that said to be baptised (drowned). In French, there was a huge discussion over whether we should use the formal or the informal form of “you” when addressing God.
Instead of looking at different translations as threats, perhaps we should look at them as man’s (or should I say human-kind’s) attempt to give the most accurate picture of the original. Instead of looking at the differences as carrying some hidden agenda, we can use them to enlighten us on the various meanings that are carried in the original texts. Verses that are translated differently are probably verses for which there is no perfect translation. The different versions of the Bible show us where translators have struggled to give us their best estimate of what the original word means.
Translation always has its challenges, but I always appreciate an effort to give better nuances.
I haven’t read the TNIV yet, but today’s discussion has intrigued me. Looking forward to a fresh look at God’s message.

]]> By: russkirby http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10868 russkirby Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:56:06 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10868 Nice post! pretty good translation. many improvements made. some still needed (which will always be the case). b blessed russ Nice post!
pretty good translation.
many improvements made.
some still needed (which will always be the case).

b blessed
russ

]]> By: Lee http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10867 Lee Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:27:42 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10867 My children and I start our prayers each night with "Dear Father God" and I love it.................. My children and I start our prayers each night with “Dear Father God” and I love it………………

]]> By: eddy http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10866 eddy Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:05:42 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10866 My understanding of God is not as apPARENT as I desire but I am thankful that my Father comforts as a mother comforts her child (Isaiah 60:13) and Jesus desires to gather chicks as a hen instead of a rooster (Matthew 23:37). Regarding translations/readability: my greatest difficulties come from things I clearly understand instead of unclear Heb/Grk words/meanings translated into English. My understanding of God is not as apPARENT as I desire but I am thankful that my Father comforts as a mother comforts her child (Isaiah 60:13) and Jesus desires to gather chicks as a hen instead of a rooster (Matthew 23:37). Regarding translations/readability: my greatest difficulties come from things I clearly understand instead of unclear Heb/Grk words/meanings translated into English.

]]> By: Beaner http://preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10865 Beaner Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:52:33 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/2006/04/26/todays-niv#comment-10865 Mike - thanks for clarifying that the TNIV maintains the masculinity of God. When you said "Is something significant lost if God is referred to as “Parent” instead of “Father”? I guess I answered "yes" with my previous comment, but now you've really got me thinking if it's really because Jesus called Him that, or because that's how I was raised to view Him. Thanks for always having something in here that challenges me & helps me to grow! Mike - thanks for clarifying that the TNIV maintains the masculinity of God. When you said “Is something significant lost if God is referred to as “Parent” instead of “Father”? I guess I answered “yes” with my previous comment, but now you’ve really got me thinking if it’s really because Jesus called Him that, or because that’s how I was raised to view Him. Thanks for always having something in here that challenges me & helps me to grow!

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