Nancy Grace
Strange afternoon. As I walked into a meeting at ACU, someone handed me a note to call a producer at CNN. I didn’t have time right then, so I asked Gina if she’d find out what they want. When I came out of the meeting, she called and said they wanted me to be on the Nancy Grace show tonight.
Apparently yesterday, as they were discussing the murder of the young minister in Tennessee, someone tore into Churches of Christ as a cult, a kind of breeding ground for such crimes. So they invited me to come talk about Churches of Christ.
I had to go right into another meeting with a student. Afterward, I called the producer to get more specific info. I called a few people — some thought it was not a good idea and some thought it was. Finally, I decided to go.
But when I called back, he said he had thought they could do a satellite feed from Abilene but had found out they couldn’t. So they’d need to get me to Dallas, and he was afraid I wouldn’t make it in time.
Anyway . . . my buddy Rubel Shelly is going to do it. Rubel is in Detroit, teaching at Rochester College.
All of this to say: set your recorders for 7:00 CST tonight. Should be interesting. What a great person to represent the healthy direction so many Churches of Christ are taking!
Wow! That is so interesting! Surely that means that I wasn’t the only one to write to her and suggest if she wanted to know more about the church of Christ, she should talk to someone who is actually familiar with it! I suggested you specifically! So, I guess I wasn’t the only one who brought up your name because I KNOW that I’m nobody important enough that CNN would sit up and listen!
I can’t wait to see/hear what Rubel Shelly has to say!
What a great moment for redemption and an opportunity to shine for our Father. Our prayers rise for Rubel tonight. (. . . and I may need to take back my “sensationalist hack” comments about Nancy G.)
We are witnessing the power of God to redeem and re-create from a moment of horror and loss. The quotes printed from those churches, their leaders and members, in Tennessee have been seasoned with grace, forgiveness, love and reconciliation. Now Rubel has an opportunity to give further glory and declare the Kingdom. It’s a beautiful day.
PTL! Rubel should be able to give Nancy a short version lesson in grace, mercy, forgiveness, and not jumping to conclusions, which can be her MO in these cases. She began to go overboard completely with the kidnapping and murder of the little girl in San Diego, Danielle. She turned out to be right about the accused in that case, and has not been able to back off since then. She’s totally forgotten about our system of justice – presumed innocent until proven guilty.
Thanks for the heads up, Mike – I can hardly wait to see and hear Rubel tonight!!
Mike, a clarification. Is Rubel going to be on with Nancy Grace on Court TV or CNN?
Following is the transcript from the show:
GRACE: A well-respected and much beloved minister in the Church of Christ, Selmer, Tennessee, gunned down in his own home. His wife, according to many reports, has confessed to police. They say whodunnit is not the issue, it`s why she did it. That is the question.
I want to go to pastor Tom Rukala, joining us tonight, a special guest, a Baptist minister. I`ve been researching the Church of Christ. I don`t know that much about it. What can you tell me?
PASTOR TOM RUKALA, BAPTIST PASTOR: Well, the Church of Christ is a relatively new church. It was started about 150 years ago by Alexander Campbell (ph). And it`s, unfortunately, a very legalistic sect, and they tend to use methods of intimidation and pressure tactics. They claim that they are the only ones going to heaven, and all other people are condemned to hell. So in case…
GRACE: Uh-oh, I`m in trouble. But I already knew that.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Now, wait a minute. What more can you tell me?
RUKALA: Well, they claim that if you`re not baptized by one of their ministers, that you`re doomed to hell, even if you`re a believer in Jesus Christ, which, of course, breaks completely from the traditional Christian view that all those who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved because we`re saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, who died for our sins and rose again. For the Church of Christ folks, that`s not enough. You have to be a member of their narrow sect. It`s a very exclusive group. And if you`re not a member of their sect, you`re condemned.
GRACE: You know, Pastor, you keep saying “sect.” “Sect.” You make it sound like a cult.
RUKALA: It kind of is a borderline cult, unfortunately. I don`t want to make it out to be some kind of Hare Krishna group, but it has cult-like characteristics and…
GRACE: In what sense?
RUKALA: Well, in the sense of the exclusivism, the attitude that they are the only ones who know the truth. The tactics that they use are sometimes just — not only un-biblical but unethical, and they can be very ungracious, unfortunately.
The show is on CNN Headline News – Not regular CNN or Court TV.
According to a the following transcript – NANCY GRACE – Is a Serial Killer on the Loose in Massachusetts? – Aired February 3, 2006 – 20:00:00 ET
This guy is apparently from Finland!!!
“And a special goodnight from friends of the show here all the way from Finland, Pastor Tom Rukala (ph), his wife, Linda (ph). Thank you for being with us. “
Thanks, Roger!! :O)
You chose wisely. Or maybe you just lucked out. This woman’s agenda is to always show those who don’t agree with her in a bad light. Always.
The show is almost over, and I find the attitudes of Nancy Grace as well as several other “spiritual leaders” to be very disrespectful and a bit myopic. The implication is that this woman possibly shot her husband because she’s a member of the church of Christ “cult.” Hmm… wasn’t the BTK killer a prominent Lutheran? I never heard an analysis of his “cult” causing him to do that.
On the other hand, it makes me sad to think of the reputation the church of Christ has built for itself, and unfortunately, I can see why these stereotypes persist.
It was awful. She treated Rubel with utter disrespect, rolling her eyes, cutting off every answer. Just awful. She had an apparent agenda, and didn’t let anything throw that agenda off the rails. Awful.
I mean no disrespect … well, actually I guess I do but here goes anyway: Does anyone else get the feeling, when watching Nancy Grace, that it’s some old Saturday Night Live skit?
I’m deeply troubled by everything about the Nancy Grace show. I’m unhappy that so many media outlets (CNN, Fox News, etc.) aren’t interested in having real dialogue; seems they only want to scream at each other. Thank goodness for NPR.
What responsible journalistic venue would put Bob Jones on the air to determine whether or not we’re a cult?
I hope we’re not reaping what we’ve too often sown.
Yes, Mike, I saw most of it and it wasn’t pretty. This woman evidently has some evil working somewhere within her, Nancy Grace, I mean. I thought it was appalling the way she said, again with the eye roll, “Well, I’m Methodist.” I have to think every Methodist that has a heart for Christ that saw her meanness would have to be ashamed of the way she treated Rubel.
I want to check the transcripts tomorrow to see exactly what alll was said since I didn’t get to hear all of Rubel comments.
Peace.
MC:
Dodged a bullet on that one! I still think you’re better looking than Deepak Chopra, though!
I believe the show replays at 9 PM and 12 midnight tonight for those that missed it, at least that’s according to her website.
To clarify, it is 9 PM and 12 midnight CST.
I agree with Greg. I think you dodged a bullet. She had an agenda and that was all that came across the air. Should we expect any less from CNN?? I emailed twice to the show, but I cannot imagine it will mean much.
Steve, actually, she said “I’m JUST a Methodist.” I’m sure she said that because we church of Christ members all think we’re sooo much better than everyone else (and yes, my voice is dripping with sarcasm).
Bobby Ross of Christian Chronicle emailed a lot of us late this afternoon about the show so I watched it (it was on CNN Headline News). The only word I have for Nancy Grace and how she treated Rubel Shelly is “digraceful.” Her last name may be grace, but she fails to show grace or graciousness or any other positive virtue that may be associated with that word (and name).
Of course, it was nothing different than how she always acts and in particular how she has acted over this terrible tragedy. I happened to see her (whom I don’t normally watch) a couple of nights ago and it was just as appalling.
Unfortunately, I must also say that I have lived long enough and been a member of the Church of Christ long enough and have lived enough different places that I have experienced (Heaven help me) the very “cult” like circumstances she talks about and is trying to feed on. And it wasn’t too far away from where I live right now. It was truly evil to the point that I had a confrontation with one male member of the church one night (in trying to “retrieve” my – literally – kidnapped older child from their home with the help of the local sheriff’s department) that it was if I were confronting Satan himself. I kid you not, nor am I exaggerating. It was if I were faced with pure evil in the lies and hatred spewing forth from him with cause or reason (except that he had been fed a bunch of lies by my ex in the middle of a horrible divorce, which was of no fault of my own).
I thank God every second of every minute of every day that I am now in the midst of the most loving, caring, working fellowship I have ever been in in my entire life with Tammany Oaks Church of Christ close by here in Mandeville, LA, in the middle of Katrina Zone. He – God – has kept me safe through all and all of my children, too, who are now grown with loving families of their own and is continuing to pour out an abundance of blessings upon me and my entire family.
May God bring us all – and His glorious church – through all of this in a way that will be redeeming for all all we come in contact with in this world and in this society until the day comes when all will become known in His light and we all gather in our home to come with Him.
May God richly bless all of us who so strive to do His will and to be His children. And may He bless our enemies as they try to harm us and His Kingdom.
May it be so.
I am not active in the Church of Christ but was raised in the denomination. I have certainly internalized many of the belief patterns and am thankful for the good teaching I received.
To see the Church of Christ portrayed as a cult is disturbing to me. My dad is an elder in the COC and I know he is not part of a cult. I also have a brother who is a minister…he might be a great cult leader! Just kidding!
My wife and I went to a church service for the first time in many months this past Sunday. We attended a Disciple of Christ congregation and really appreciated the warmth and fellowship that was experienced.
Anyhow, I was saddened to learn of Pastor Winkler’s death. I heard his grandfather speak many times. We pray for comfort and a grand future for the little girls.
I love our heritage and I love our family here at Southwest in Jonesboro, but if we want to really impact the world it’s time to lose the name. We act like we are so ready to be unchained by all the tradition, but we are somewaht like people who say they are not racist and then lock there doors when someone who is a minority walks by. Unfortuantley we are getting what we have sowed. This is the same reason people don’t name their children Judas anymore, great name, lots of baggage. Nancy Grace may be a symptom of the problem, but the fact is that baptist minister did a good job describing the church I grew up in and many in this area.
Love the blog Mike!
“Anyhow, I was saddened to learn of Pastor Winkler’s death. I heard his grandfather speak many times. We pray for comfort and a grand future for the little girls.”
Amen. I’m with you in that prayer.
James,
The prayers for the children are the most important thing we can do. They have lost a father. Their mother will be profiled every evening by the press.
Pray without ceasing here.
May we all realize our shortcomings.
I’m saddened, but not really surprised (having read this blog many times before), that so many are caught up in defending/condemning the church of Christ.
So much so, that I wonder if you missed Rubel Shelly’s defense of the Gospel on that program tonight.
Bob Jones defended the Church of Christ.
Rubel defended The Christ.
Why is so much time in our Bible classes (and elsewhere) spent whining about the church of Christ we grew up in? My parents and the parents of my friends did their best to please God and to teach me to do the same. If I don’t think they got everything quite right, so what? I will still extend the same respect to them and to their efforts that I pray my sons extend to me.
I just finished watching Nancy Grace interview Rubel…I never liked Nancy Grace before and she confirmed all the reasons tonight while interviewing Rubel. She didn’t want to hear anything positive about the Church of Christ and she made sure that nothing positive was said. She just wanted it to look like she had let the Church of Christ have their say but she really didn’t let anything be said. She makes me crazy and I only watched because Rubel was on. Sorry, she gets under my skin.
The point at which I decided that Nancy Grace was not much more than hot air was when she was questioning Rubel Shelly about women’s role in the church. Rubel gave her scriptural references and explanations, and her response was “Do you remember Mary Magdalene? Duh!” What exactly is that supposed to mean? Mary Magdalene?
My pulse is so elevated right now I am about to be SICK! The “interview” with Ruble (as his name read!!!) was absolutely nauseating! I cannot believe ANY reputable network would have such horrifying standards that they would air such complete nonsense. It is moments like these that I plead “Maranatha”. Mike, say an extra prayer of thanks for meetings and Gina!!!
Hey, go to the Soulforce website and read the article about visiting ACU. It is titled Grateful for Abilene. I have never been so proud of ACU. Jesus would have sat at the table with the Soulforce group.
it never pays to justify ones self. i was raised in the coc that is my heritage good and bad. those of you who chose it well thank you for not leaving me alone with my family.
For Soulforce article you have to click on photos for the road.
Here’s the link:
http://soulforceacu.notlong.com
Peace.
Carla, I really appreciate your post, and I too am saddened and frustrated by all the whining I hear (mainly from middle-aged adolescents) about our parents and grandparents efforts to live godly lives. Of course, that’s not the way it’s usually couched: rather, they are called legalistic, narrow-minded, and inflexible.
What we seem to forget is that they lived and worshipped in ways indicative of their time, experiences, and cultural influences. We have an opportunity to live and worship in ways conguent with our time here on earth, and we don’t have to do it by bad-mouthing or making fun of the way they did it or the way some conservative churches still do it. I hear far too many middle-aged folks still rebelling against their parents’ brand of church rather than just doing the Lord’s work. And what is all that criticism and “making fun of” behavior modeling for our children?
I attend a large liberal congregation in a southern city and I love my church family there. But I am equally at home in tiny rural congregations or congregations in other locales around the world where a 24-year military career took me. Finding common ground rather than nit-picking differences is my understanding of Paul’s lesson about unity. I think we could all benefit more from extending respect to others rather than demanding it from others.
Rubel Shelly did a great job on the Nancy Grace Show tonight. He was exactly the right man for the job.
I agree with Carla and Leanne. We should be respectful of the “cloud of witnesses” that have gone on before us. Would we appreciate being ridiculed or belittled by the generations to come, when we have been sincere in our faith and worship?
My grandfather was a very conservative member of the church, but he lived an upright and righteous life according to the scriptures as he interpreted them. I find no fault in that.
I am thrilled to hear that CNN listened to our feedback. I wasn’t able to see the show tonight, but from the comments here it seems we didn’t have the opportunity we had hoped for?
I agree with many of the comments those of you have made about Nancy Grace. It’s so unfortunate to witness what went on during her show.
Let’s pray for those who persecute us! The apostles never had easy either. First I’ve got to pray for a heart that is willing to pray for people like Nancy, but I really do want to pray for her and ask God to bless her. Who wants to join me?
Nancy Grace was anything but graceful tonight. The way she acted made anything she said ineffective.
What bothers me the most was that men claiming to be Christians (Rukhala and Jones) were blasting the church of Christ and saying we were unbiblical and almost cult like. We all believe in Jesus Christ and believe he is the Way, the Truth, the Life. Where is the unity? These men were fighting the wrong Enemy who I am sure is delighted by all of this.
We are standing on the shoulders of those who have gone before. . .I loved the “cloud of witnesses” reference by another person who commented. I’ve seen lots of comments about “reaping what we have sown.” That is true–but we have also be blessed to reap a heritage of studying the scripture that has led us into a better understanding of how God would have us live this sojourn here on earth.
I wrote to Nancy Grace yesterday and explained that as believers, we BELIEVE what God says and we also BELIEVE that God is the ultimate authority on what God has to say–not man. I wanted her to know that and that no one has been more impacted or heart sick over this tragedy than members of the Church of Christ. Our prayers are with all of the family members–including Mary.
I am deeply touched by this tragedy. It is a reminder that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but thankfully Jesus stands in God’s presence to call our names before the Father.
What speaks louder than anything (including Nancy Grace) is the actions of the Winkler family, Clark Freeman, and the Fourth Street Church. Their loving embrace of eachother and their loving forgiveness extended to Mary will make much more of an impression than all of the TV blather. We need to keep them in our prayers and they demonstrate the love of God to the world.
Mike,
I watched the interview tonight and wrote about it on my blog, Two Cities. I tried to show how Grace’s questions to Rubel were just unfair and loaded with unfair premises. I say next time you guys should use a tag team approach on her.
Whenever a mindset of prejudice is adopted toward an entire group of people I just begin to tune out. With his ministry, Jesus Christ completely blew-apart any validity that labelling people had. How can anyone assume that every member of the COC does everything right just because they are COC? Boy, that would be to turn a blind eye! It’s like assuming that every Muslim is hungry for revenge, or every American is a good person. I don’t agree one bit with the idealogical mindset that the Nancy Grace “discussion” tried to get across to its viewers, but for us to reverse the idealogy by saying that Nancy Grace has “evil” in her, is lowering ourselves to the same level. I think it’s this demonizing mindset that causes all kinds of monstrosities in our world.
I took an opportunity to visit with my youth group about this situation. I was crushed to hear of the labeling of the CoC. I encouraged them that this situation on CNN, may allow many of them the opportunity to speak up if asked if they were in a cult. We have prayed for an opportunity to talk to people about God, and this is just as good as any.
As I told Quile in our staff meeting, you can’t buy this kind of PR!
I was praying for you, Mike, the moment I heard about your opportunity and we were praying for Ruble.
I know you would have done a great job as well.
Should I put my voodoo doll of Nancy Grace on eBay?!?
M@
I had a slightly different take after watching the interview. I think it was apparent she figured out quickly this wasn’t someone she wanted to spar with and tried (unsuccessfully) to back off “gracefully”.
It’s almost like her show (and she) has multiple personalities, like she wasn’t sure which direction to go next.
Anyway, I felt Rubel answered every question she put out there and she couldn’t handle that. Her ignorance began to show and she ran for the woods (another guest she could try to humiliate).
This is directed at the Voodoo doll comment made by Matt McBryde.
Matt, do you take your witness seriously? Do you know that your words are being posted on a public domain for anyone, anywhere to read? And that if “Nancy Grace Church of Chirst” is entered into a search engine then anyone can be directed to this site? I don’t think that’s going to boad too well for our case. I know that you’re joking, but really, are you joking?
I know what happened last night is upsetting, but let’s try not to out-Nancy-Grace Nancy Grace! Especially in a forum where we publicly praise Christianity.
I didn’t see either episode of Nancy Grace. I gave her about 3 minutes one night and decided that I would rather have someone throw a toaster in my bathwater than to endure an entire segment of that program.
However, these discussions pinpoint the disconnect we have with our culture. The fact that no one has heard of us or knows what we believe is glaring.
I think if Nancy Grace were to come to Pascagoula and say those things about the Church of Christ, she would have to run for her life. We have rebuilt so many homes and helped so many people after Hurricane Katrina, the church has a great name these days. Before this, we were invisible.
So I’m wondering if we really put some legs on our talk about service, compassion, and bringing a cup of cold water to the lips of the thirsty … perhaps the people in our neighborhoods who were unfortunate enough to watch Nancy would shake their heads and turn her off.
Now I know why I like Fox News.
Well, to borrow the only line from “Titanic” that I liked… I had to write a strongly-worded letter to CNN this morning. That lady is maddening, I don’t know why she bothers to have so many guests if she’s just going to cut them all off. Ugh. Rubel Shelly was as gracious as anyone could be in that situation, but Nancy Grace is annoying. I apologize to you Nancy Grace fans, but she drives me nuts.
Dear Nancy Grace,
I’ll make you a deal. I promise not to practice law if you promise to stop teaching theology.
OK?
Sincerely,
Jeff Slater
Satan loves deception and is a skilled opportunist. He succeeds at distracting us from real triumphs. Families and Christian fellowships are in mourning. On the global front there is much to do. Mike and Bob just inspired many Christians to join forces in unity. Norman Kember, James Loney, and Harmeet Singh Sooden were just released from captivity in Baghdad. And this morning Jill Carroll has finally been freed from her captors. Yesterday, as NG and her producers were spinning their presentation, Abdul Rahman was flown out of Afghanistan and into Italy, where he has been granted asylum. There are many Christians in Afghanistan AND Iraq who are suffering and do not get to express their feelings or their faith so openly as the rest of us. (I do not mean to leave out those suffering from oppression in other countries out — there are just so many!)
Yes, Satan knows exactly what makes us tick and take the bait.
Let us all embrace the challenge of our Lord and move forward. We have much to do, and many to love. So many of you are wonderfully placed, with tremendous hearts and the passion to get the work done. Let’s keep encouaging one another, and take control of our emotional and spiritual space. Blessings!
How we respond to all of this will be even more powerful than words…
Sin has such far-reaching consequences. Did Mary W. even begin to think that the entire CofC would be under scrutiny when she was contemplating her actions? I dread to think of all the ways my sins (both big & little) have affected this world. Satan has a way of feeding off of this stuff & adding sin upon sin . “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” Eph. 6:12 Time to put on our armor!
Nancy dear, I have one word for you–Ritalin.