Comments on: My Five Suits http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904 Sniffing out the work of God in the world... Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:52:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Charles Yoakam http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-41372 Charles Yoakam Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:21:16 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-41372 Google is the best search engine Google is the best search engine

]]> By: Vkls http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8042 Vkls Tue, 31 Jan 2006 01:03:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8042 I, too, am a lover of Virgil--and also of his sweet wife, Lou. He always makes me smile and his sweetness melts my heart. Whenever I am with him I just feel cozy. Kathy I, too, am a lover of Virgil–and also of his sweet wife, Lou. He always makes me smile and his sweetness melts my heart. Whenever I am with him I just feel cozy.
Kathy

]]> By: Fajita http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8041 Fajita Mon, 30 Jan 2006 05:38:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8041 When I am feeling most me, it's jeans on Sunday AM. When I'm feeling dressy, it's cargo pants. Dressing up for church, in my mind, is like dressing up for Saturday lunch with my wife and kids. We're family. Yes, I'll get out of my jammies, but that's it. Church is family and family is not formal unless it is something rare and special (wedding, funeral, banquet etc). When did Jesus bust out the good duds? The fact that the Bible doesn't say anything about that is probably a pretty big nudge as to its relevance. Whenever I hear the "Giving our best to God," thing as it relates to Sunday AM dress code I want to walk away, ears covered, saying "na na na na na" really fast. That being said, I don't mind it is people wear suits to church or shorts to church. I like a mix myself. But if you are going to make a spiritual thing of it, then just hope I'm in a generous mood when we talk, because this kind of SES hierarchical, classist, spiritual superiority complex, clothing and lookism discrimination mumbo jumbo is something I don't mind taking down brick by brick to the glory of God. Why so crazy this way? Becuase I have seen people's fragile faith shaken by words about clothing. These conversations sound more like the dress code police at the country club than family conversation. ----------------- And Virgil's a really nice guy. When I am feeling most me, it’s jeans on Sunday AM. When I’m feeling dressy, it’s cargo pants.

Dressing up for church, in my mind, is like dressing up for Saturday lunch with my wife and kids. We’re family. Yes, I’ll get out of my jammies, but that’s it.

Church is family and family is not formal unless it is something rare and special (wedding, funeral, banquet etc). When did Jesus bust out the good duds? The fact that the Bible doesn’t say anything about that is probably a pretty big nudge as to its relevance.

Whenever I hear the “Giving our best to God,” thing as it relates to Sunday AM dress code I want to walk away, ears covered, saying “na na na na na” really fast.

That being said, I don’t mind it is people wear suits to church or shorts to church. I like a mix myself. But if you are going to make a spiritual thing of it, then just hope I’m in a generous mood when we talk, because this kind of SES hierarchical, classist, spiritual superiority complex, clothing and lookism discrimination mumbo jumbo is something I don’t mind taking down brick by brick to the glory of God.

Why so crazy this way? Becuase I have seen people’s fragile faith shaken by words about clothing. These conversations sound more like the dress code police at the country club than family conversation.
—————–
And Virgil’s a really nice guy.

]]> By: Phil Richardson http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8040 Phil Richardson Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:50:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8040 The church my family and I attend is very, very informal. We meet in the clubhouse of an abandoned golf driving range. We recently went from 2 to 3 Sunday worship services, because we simply could not accomodate all the visitors we received with two services. Our services are a crazy mix of folks. We have a mix of white, black, and brown at every service. Lots of biker-types, lots of goatees, lots of long hair (men), lots of piercings and tattoos. The folks in suits are easily identified-- they're almost always members at other churches in town who are checking out what's going on at our place. Very few of our visitors (who make up about 50% of our weekly attendance) would be welcome, let alone fit in, at any of the "high church" services available around town. In our assembly, however, they have found a place where there are people just like them. They have also found a place where they can get beyond "church" to find Jesus. The church my family and I attend is very, very informal. We meet in the clubhouse of an abandoned golf driving range. We recently went from 2 to 3 Sunday worship services, because we simply could not accomodate all the visitors we received with two services.

Our services are a crazy mix of folks. We have a mix of white, black, and brown at every service. Lots of biker-types, lots of goatees, lots of long hair (men), lots of piercings and tattoos. The folks in suits are easily identified– they’re almost always members at other churches in town who are checking out what’s going on at our place.

Very few of our visitors (who make up about 50% of our weekly attendance) would be welcome, let alone fit in, at any of the “high church” services available around town. In our assembly, however, they have found a place where there are people just like them. They have also found a place where they can get beyond “church” to find Jesus.

]]> By: Matt Elliott http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8039 Matt Elliott Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:13:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8039 At our church, we still have a "traditional" style worship service first thing on Sundays, and I lead worship in there every 4-6 weeks (I'm in the "other" service the other Sundays.) When I lead in that service, I typically wear a suit or coat/tie, then I actually change clothes before leading for our infinitely more casual 11 am service. How's THAT for riding the fence? I agree with all of you -- all of you, even those of you with opposing viewpoints! :-) I remember when you used to tell that story that Kim mentioned (in the very first comment). I believe you used to say that Kim's husband's shirt looked like it had been "ironed with a weed eater." I thought it was funny because I had done that myself so many times in college! At our church, we still have a “traditional” style worship service first thing on Sundays, and I lead worship in there every 4-6 weeks (I’m in the “other” service the other Sundays.) When I lead in that service, I typically wear a suit or coat/tie, then I actually change clothes before leading for our infinitely more casual 11 am service. How’s THAT for riding the fence? I agree with all of you — all of you, even those of you with opposing viewpoints! :-)
I remember when you used to tell that story that Kim mentioned (in the very first comment). I believe you used to say that Kim’s husband’s shirt looked like it had been “ironed with a weed eater.” I thought it was funny because I had done that myself so many times in college!

]]> By: Larry http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8038 Larry Sun, 29 Jan 2006 01:06:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8038 Don't own a suit...if we were to all fall before the Lord, it would just get dirty. My tennis shoes make it easier to stand when sing praises to the Lord...and we may even start dancing for joy one day. Don’t own a suit…if we were to all fall before the Lord, it would just get dirty.

My tennis shoes make it easier to stand when sing praises to the Lord…and we may even start dancing for joy one day.

]]> By: Kyle http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8037 Kyle Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:11:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8037 Mike, That story reminded me of a story you told at my great grandad's funeral. It was my freshman year at ACU, so I guess 1998? Kelly Martin was my great grandad and you talked about how he had done the same thing. Found a guy who needed a suit and bought him one. He would even take the suit off of his back and give it to a guy whether he wanted to or not. That story has had a great impact on me, allowing me to see a side of Ging-gong (yes, that's what we call him, blame my dad) I hadn't known before. He was always so loving to us, but it's really how you treat the one's you aren't required to love by blood that's makes the most difference to me. I've really tried to live by that example. As far as the church wear debate, my personal belief is that the way we dress on Sunday morning has way more to do with societal and cultural rules and disciplines than spiritual ones. We tend to turn everything into a spiritual debate, but in this case, I don't think there is one. To each his own, I say. Dress how you feel comfortable, realizing you may not feel comfortable on Sunday morning in shorts and flip-flops. Or then again you might. Mike, That story reminded me of a story you told at my great grandad’s funeral. It was my freshman year at ACU, so I guess 1998?

Kelly Martin was my great grandad and you talked about how he had done the same thing. Found a guy who needed a suit and bought him one. He would even take the suit off of his back and give it to a guy whether he wanted to or not. That story has had a great impact on me, allowing me to see a side of Ging-gong (yes, that’s what we call him, blame my dad) I hadn’t known before. He was always so loving to us, but it’s really how you treat the one’s you aren’t required to love by blood that’s makes the most difference to me. I’ve really tried to live by that example.

As far as the church wear debate, my personal belief is that the way we dress on Sunday morning has way more to do with societal and cultural rules and disciplines than spiritual ones. We tend to turn everything into a spiritual debate, but in this case, I don’t think there is one. To each his own, I say. Dress how you feel comfortable, realizing you may not feel comfortable on Sunday morning in shorts and flip-flops. Or then again you might.

]]> By: Paul http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8036 Paul Fri, 27 Jan 2006 23:55:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8036 Mike, when I first got out of Harding and was working at Neosho, I went to Carl Junction to preach one Sunday. We were raising funds to go to Brazil. Duerd Pendegraft came up to me and stuck something in my coat pocket and told me to look at it later. First he just told me to "buy a pizza," then he said, "Why don't you buy you a suit?" He had put $1000 cash in my pocket. That was the most generous gift I ever received as a young minister. That new suit helped me raise the rest of our funds to go to Rio. God bless those special men who encourage young ministers! Mike, when I first got out of Harding and was working at Neosho, I went to Carl Junction to preach one Sunday. We were raising funds to go to Brazil. Duerd Pendegraft came up to me and stuck something in my coat pocket and told me to look at it later. First he just told me to “buy a pizza,” then he said, “Why don’t you buy you a suit?” He had put $1000 cash in my pocket. That was the most generous gift I ever received as a young minister. That new suit helped me raise the rest of our funds to go to Rio. God bless those special men who encourage young ministers!

]]> By: Kelley http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8035 Kelley Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:58:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8035 I find at our congregation that it's folks over say 45-50 that are offended by the casual dress and those younger are really comfortable with it. For instance, my mother-in-law gets ripped out of joint if my 14 year old son doesn't have his shirt tucked in when he waits on the Lord's table. So we tuck the shirt it, not because we think it's important, but because it's important to Grandmother and we love her. I can tell you it's what girls wear that is offensive to me. I've seen ridiculously immodest dress on girls. Winter and summer. Sooooo tight. As the mother of a hormonal 14 year old boy, I wish mothers and fathers of girls would teach them to dress "more" as in more fabric that is not quite so tight. I would be grateful and it might actually help some men and boys be eternally grateful. As for suits, they make most every guy look dashing and wonderfully handsome. My husband has a friend who dresses up every day at work even though everyone else prefers to dress down. He says it puts him in a professional mood. So it's possible that dressing up at church could put some people in a mood to be more reverent. Who knows. I just know as a woman I'm not wearing panty hose! They just make me feel ill. I find at our congregation that it’s folks over say 45-50 that are offended by the casual dress and those younger are really comfortable with it. For instance, my mother-in-law gets ripped out of joint if my 14 year old son doesn’t have his shirt tucked in when he waits on the Lord’s table. So we tuck the shirt it, not because we think it’s important, but because it’s important to Grandmother and we love her.
I can tell you it’s what girls wear that is offensive to me. I’ve seen ridiculously immodest dress on girls. Winter and summer. Sooooo tight. As the mother of a hormonal 14 year old boy, I wish mothers and fathers of girls would teach them to dress “more” as in more fabric that is not quite so tight. I would be grateful and it might actually help some men and boys be eternally grateful.
As for suits, they make most every guy look dashing and wonderfully handsome.
My husband has a friend who dresses up every day at work even though everyone else prefers to dress down. He says it puts him in a professional mood. So it’s possible that dressing up at church could put some people in a mood to be more reverent. Who knows. I just know as a woman I’m not wearing panty hose! They just make me feel ill.

]]> By: SG http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8034 SG Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:52:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8034 So Mike have you carried that tradition on yet or are you not old enough yet? So Mike have you carried that tradition on yet or are you not old enough yet?

]]> By: Joyce http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8033 Joyce Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:11:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8033 Yes! This is right on target brad, IMHO. <I>(1)Dress in a way that is best for you to bring glory and honor to your God, remembering He never has been and never will be impressed with our "stuff". (2) Don't dare try to determine that for other people. (3) Do whatever it takes to stay humble before the Lord.</I> Oh, and since we're sharing what we find attractive on a fellow, I rather like a pair of 501's and a polo shirt. :-) Yes! This is right on target brad, IMHO.

(1)Dress in a way that is best for you to bring glory and honor to your God, remembering He never has been and never will be impressed with our “stuff”.
(2) Don’t dare try to determine that for other people.
(3) Do whatever it takes to stay humble before the Lord.

Oh, and since we’re sharing what we find attractive on a fellow, I rather like a pair of 501’s and a polo shirt. :-)

]]> By: Rick J http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8032 Rick J Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:13:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8032 Virgil Lawyer was not only gifted, but versatile. My sophomore year at Harding he served as the cross country coach, with the help of Jim Crawford as a grad assistant, while Ted Lloyd was gone for a year. We had a lot of fun. About a year ago, a couple living near our church showed up one Sunday, got involved over time, and were both baptized after a few months. Along the way they shared their story... he as a recovering alcoholic, they as nearly divorcing but deciding to try one more time with "church" added to the equation. They first went to a church down the street, but that group was pretty formal in their dress and style as well as rather cold. Having decided to try our church as a last resort, they met a friendly guy in jeans and a polo as they crossed the parking lot the first time. The husband told me, "As I shook the guy's hand and he opened the door for us, I thought, 'I think I can go to church here.'" They are now our brother and sister. One thing I like about the "clothing atmosphere" here is that nobody seems to even notice if someone has on jeans or a suit or one of Tim's florals. As for me... I bought a suit last summer... needed it for my daughter's wedding. Let's see... it's somewhere here in my closet... maybe over here behind... Virgil Lawyer was not only gifted, but versatile. My sophomore year at Harding he served as the cross country coach, with the help of Jim Crawford as a grad assistant, while Ted Lloyd was gone for a year. We had a lot of fun.

About a year ago, a couple living near our church showed up one Sunday, got involved over time, and were both baptized after a few months. Along the way they shared their story… he as a recovering alcoholic, they as nearly divorcing but deciding to try one more time with “church” added to the equation. They first went to a church down the street, but that group was pretty formal in their dress and style as well as rather cold. Having decided to try our church as a last resort, they met a friendly guy in jeans and a polo as they crossed the parking lot the first time. The husband told me, “As I shook the guy’s hand and he opened the door for us, I thought, ‘I think I can go to church here.’” They are now our brother and sister.

One thing I like about the “clothing atmosphere” here is that nobody seems to even notice if someone has on jeans or a suit or one of Tim’s florals.

As for me… I bought a suit last summer… needed it for my daughter’s wedding. Let’s see… it’s somewhere here in my closet… maybe over here behind…

]]> By: Brad http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8031 Brad Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:09:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8031 I'm pretty sure you will not find in Scripture any place where a person is told to "dress up" before the Lord. In fact, all the texts I know of encourage people to "dress down". 1 Tim 2:9-10 "I want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God." Modestly, with decency and propriety is not just talking about skimpy and revealing. It is talking appropriate and sensible. Plus, it goes on to tell what that is - not expensive, not flashy, but clothes that don't overshadow the true source of a woman's beauty, her godly deeds. In the OT, God even required the high priest to take off his high priestly robes and put on the robes of a common priest, linen garments, on the one day of the year that he would enter into the very presence of God, the Day of Atonement.(Lev 16:3-5, 23-24) God is serious about us walking humbly before Him, and for many, not all, fancy clothes tend to make us think more of ourselves than we should. My thinking is this: (1)Dress in a way that is best for you to bring glory and honor to your God, remembering He never has been and never will be impressed with our "stuff". (2) Don't dare try to determine that for other people. (3) Do whatever it takes to stay humble before the Lord. I’m pretty sure you will not find in Scripture any place where a person is told to “dress up” before the Lord. In fact, all the texts I know of encourage people to “dress down”.

1 Tim 2:9-10 “I want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.”

Modestly, with decency and propriety is not just talking about skimpy and revealing. It is talking appropriate and sensible. Plus, it goes on to tell what that is - not expensive, not flashy, but clothes that don’t overshadow the true source of a woman’s beauty, her godly deeds.

In the OT, God even required the high priest to take off his high priestly robes and put on the robes of a common priest, linen garments, on the one day of the year that he would enter into the very presence of God, the Day of Atonement.(Lev 16:3-5, 23-24) God is serious about us walking humbly before Him, and for many, not all, fancy clothes tend to make us think more of ourselves than we should.

My thinking is this: (1)Dress in a way that is best for you to bring glory and honor to your God, remembering He never has been and never will be impressed with our “stuff”. (2) Don’t dare try to determine that for other people. (3) Do whatever it takes to stay humble before the Lord.

]]> By: Jeff Cash http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8030 Jeff Cash Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:03:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8030 It's amazing how strongly we feel about our "traditions". I used to hate, what my roomate called, the "Sunday fashion Show". During this time of searching and rebellion I would drag myself out of bed to go listen to you speak, Mike. I did not go because of what you wore on the outside. I would go because of the Spirit who is inside of you. You have a gift of telling stories. The Lord touched me through your words. Thank you Mike. I am a better man because of you. Cheryl and I have four children and we have been serving the Lord in Uganda for a little over ten years, now. I thank that Lord that you were at College Church during those days. The Lord changed my life while you stood up there in that stuffy suit. Thanks Mike Thank you Lord! Mike you enfluenced my life and when we get to heaven I want to introduce you to your brothers and Sisters from the Batooro, Bakonjo, Bwamba, Banyoro, Lendu and Hema tribes who are there because of your enfluence. It’s amazing how strongly we feel about our “traditions”.
I used to hate, what my roomate called, the “Sunday fashion Show”.
During this time of searching and rebellion I would drag myself out of bed to go listen to you speak, Mike. I did not go because of what you wore on the outside. I would go because of the Spirit who is inside of you. You have a gift of telling stories. The Lord touched me through your words.
Thank you Mike. I am a better man because of you.
Cheryl and I have four children and we have been serving the Lord in Uganda for a little over ten years, now.
I thank that Lord that you were at College Church during those days. The Lord changed my life while you stood up there in that stuffy suit. Thanks Mike
Thank you Lord!
Mike you enfluenced my life and when we get to heaven I want to introduce you to your brothers and Sisters from the Batooro, Bakonjo, Bwamba, Banyoro, Lendu and Hema tribes who are there because of your enfluence.

]]> By: KentF http://preachermike.com/2006/01/27/113829197100395904#comment-8029 KentF Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:57:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=690#comment-8029 I hope this doesn't come across as condemning - just an observation. Amazing how passionate and varied our opinions are on how we dress. Speaking strictly from the men's side - we wore charcoal suits in the 60's (I was a wee-lad, but still had one); leisure suits in the latter 1970's and/or skin-tight polyester slacks; navy suits with heavy starched shirts in the 80's; dockers and blazers in the 90's and I'd call it casual dockers in the 00's thus far. How has Jesus' love for us changed over that time -- or our love for him or our witness for him? We just love to talk about US. Maybe we need to get over us, and focus more on Him. I hope this doesn’t come across as condemning - just an observation. Amazing how passionate and varied our opinions are on how we dress.

Speaking strictly from the men’s side - we wore charcoal suits in the 60’s (I was a wee-lad, but still had one); leisure suits in the latter 1970’s and/or skin-tight polyester slacks; navy suits with heavy starched shirts in the 80’s; dockers and blazers in the 90’s and I’d call it casual dockers in the 00’s thus far. How has Jesus’ love for us changed over that time — or our love for him or our witness for him?

We just love to talk about US. Maybe we need to get over us, and focus more on Him.

]]>