Comments on: Strange Fire http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767 Sniffing out the work of God in the world... Thu, 17 May 2012 03:50:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: kungfubonanza.com » Mike Cope on Nadab and Abihu, Uzzah, and gopher wood http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-65317 kungfubonanza.com » Mike Cope on Nadab and Abihu, Uzzah, and gopher wood Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:28:32 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-65317 [...] Mike Cope posted an interesting article about some common sermon comparisons that can be a bit [...] [...] Mike Cope posted an interesting article about some common sermon comparisons that can be a bit [...]

]]> By: Jennifer Fairechild http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-41232 Jennifer Fairechild Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:10:03 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-41232 Google is the best search engine Google is the best search engine

]]> By: Matt Tibbles http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5679 Matt Tibbles Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:10:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5679 Right on. Worship becomes enjoyable and captivating when we focus on God with our hearts and not on the idea of "getting things right." Renewal is in the air and hearts of His people! Right on. Worship becomes enjoyable and captivating when we focus on God with our hearts and not on the idea of “getting things right.” Renewal is in the air and hearts of His people!

]]> By: tams http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5678 tams Wed, 14 Sep 2005 03:46:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5678 I stumbled upon your blog and feel a little divine intervention is the culprit. A little reinforcement goes a long way! God blessed me just this past Sunday with the opportunity to teach a class of 5th graders from these same words from King Saul. I'm grateful to be able to teach this new generation a way of believing that is different from the message I learned as a child: Obedience isn't as much about action as it is about heart. How many sleepless nights could I have avoided if I'd grown up understanding my freedom in Christ like I do now! I stumbled upon your blog and feel a little divine intervention is the culprit. A little reinforcement goes a long way!

God blessed me just this past Sunday with the opportunity to teach a class of 5th graders from these same words from King Saul.

I’m grateful to be able to teach this new generation a way of believing that is different from the message I learned as a child: Obedience isn’t as much about action as it is about heart.

How many sleepless nights could I have avoided if I’d grown up understanding my freedom in Christ like I do now!

]]> By: Brian http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5677 Brian Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:35:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5677 In spirit and in truth. Nuf said. In spirit and in truth. Nuf said.

]]> By: Deb http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5676 Deb Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:13:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5676 ' …You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean ...' (Lev 10.10, ESV) With the diversity of worship styles/forms we have in today's churches, how does one define, then, what is offered up as holy? What is holy to one population might be deemed as the lowest common denominator and irreverent to another. Some hearts might thrive on ‘JC-Lite’ while others thirst for a deeper learning and understanding. Regardless of the myriad of instrumental means (giant screens in triplicate; OHP’s; PowerPoint slides; bells and smells; wine/Welch's grape juice; shot glasses/one cups; matzos/wafers; expensive sound/light set-ups; worship teams and bands/choirs and traditional instruments; and the list goes on) used to convey or impart our ‘offerings’ today … … how does God intervene now to show us if He is pleased or not? A lot of us can point to those things that make ourselves feel pleased and fulfilled with our corporate worship offerings. ‘It’s not about me …’ Oh, really??? I am so glad God in His mercy does not strike us down if we ‘experiment’ and get it wrong for trying to get it right. Guess I will just have to wait until I get to Heaven and can actually see what kind of worship makes His face light up with joy (I know, I know – His countenance is already pretty bright!). ‘ …You are to distinguish between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean …’ (Lev 10.10, ESV)

With the diversity of worship styles/forms we have in today’s churches, how does one define, then, what is offered up as holy? What is holy to one population might be deemed as the lowest common denominator and irreverent to another. Some hearts might thrive on ‘JC-Lite’ while others thirst for a deeper learning and understanding. Regardless of the myriad of instrumental means (giant screens in triplicate; OHP’s; PowerPoint slides; bells and smells; wine/Welch’s grape juice; shot glasses/one cups; matzos/wafers; expensive sound/light set-ups; worship teams and bands/choirs and traditional instruments; and the list goes on) used to convey or impart our ‘offerings’ today …

… how does God intervene now to show us if He is pleased or not? A lot of us can point to those things that make ourselves feel pleased and fulfilled with our corporate worship offerings. ‘It’s not about me …’ Oh, really???

I am so glad God in His mercy does not strike us down if we ‘experiment’ and get it wrong for trying to get it right. Guess I will just have to wait until I get to Heaven and can actually see what kind of worship makes His face light up with joy (I know, I know – His countenance is already pretty bright!).

]]> By: Brad http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5675 Brad Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:00:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5675 Keith, I think you are right. I've always wondered why a warning about alcohol was thrown into that passage. If alchohol did to them what it does to people today, no wonder God struck them dead. It seems to me that they weren't struck dead because they were doing the wrong thing with the right heart. We have numerous examples of God overlooking folks not doing things according to the letter of the law, but their hearts were intent on serving God. Nadab and Abihu were doing either the wrong thing or maybe even the right thing according to law, but it was with the wrong heart. God will always reject that. (Isaiah 1) Keith,

I think you are right. I’ve always wondered why a warning about alcohol was thrown into that passage. If alchohol did to them what it does to people today, no wonder God struck them dead. It seems to me that they weren’t struck dead because they were doing the wrong thing with the right heart. We have numerous examples of God overlooking folks not doing things according to the letter of the law, but their hearts were intent on serving God. Nadab and Abihu were doing either the wrong thing or maybe even the right thing according to law, but it was with the wrong heart. God will always reject that. (Isaiah 1)

]]> By: Steve Jr. http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5674 Steve Jr. Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:12:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5674 "True worship", as someone referred to it, is almost never defined as something having to do with a church service in the Bible. Worship is what happens in our schools, places of work, grocery stores, and, yes, our Christian assemblies. I think that remembering this can heal a lot of our up-tightness about what happens during a 1-hour time slot in a 168-hour week. I wouldn't mind never again hearing a "church service" referred to as "worship". Yes, people do worship at assemblies of Christians, but not any more than when we're playing in the backyard with the kids. “True worship”, as someone referred to it, is almost never defined as something having to do with a church service in the Bible. Worship is what happens in our schools, places of work, grocery stores, and, yes, our Christian assemblies. I think that remembering this can heal a lot of our up-tightness about what happens during a 1-hour time slot in a 168-hour week.

I wouldn’t mind never again hearing a “church service” referred to as “worship”. Yes, people do worship at assemblies of Christians, but not any more than when we’re playing in the backyard with the kids.

]]> By: Fajita http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5673 Fajita Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:47:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5673 People seek comfort in masters. Whether it is the strange fire of rigid tradition or the strange fire of smoking pot, we yearn for something or someone to make things comfy for us. What feels most risky, but couldn't safer, is to strip naked of all that binds, to loose ourselves of all masters and seek the one master whose deepest desire is to set us free in his love. People seek comfort in masters.

Whether it is the strange fire of rigid tradition or the strange fire of smoking pot, we yearn for something or someone to make things comfy for us.

What feels most risky, but couldn’t safer, is to strip naked of all that binds, to loose ourselves of all masters and seek the one master whose deepest desire is to set us free in his love.

]]> By: c hand http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5672 c hand Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:39:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5672 The sin of Nad & Ab was arrogance. Grace should produce a stronger sence of gratitude and responsibility, not arrogance. Free in Christ does not mean free to do as I see fit. It's still not a good idea to offer strange fire. So bring in the piano and break out the band, or not, I'm not particular there. But lets not be too self satisfied and accept just anything. Be equipt to identify a pagan nature. The sin of Nad & Ab was arrogance. Grace should produce a stronger sence of gratitude and responsibility, not arrogance. Free in Christ does not mean free to do as I see fit. It’s still not a good idea to offer strange fire.
So bring in the piano and break out the band, or not, I’m not particular there. But lets not be too self satisfied and accept just anything. Be equipt to identify a pagan nature.

]]> By: Keith Brenton http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5671 Keith Brenton Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:52:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5671 I wonder if part of the conclusion we can draw from Nadab and Abihu is that the reason their fire was "strange" or "unauthorized" was because they weren't the ones who were supposed to bring it. In Exodus 30:7, Aaron is specified as the one to take care of burning incense, every morning and evening, at the altar made for it. It doesn't really authorize him to delegate the task to his sons or anyone else or to use censers; there seems to be a delineation between what the high priest can do ("most holy" tasks) and what the priests can do ("holy" tasks). And I may be off-base for suggesting it, but I have to wonder if alcohol impaired their judgment about obeying in the specified way; otherwise, the Lord's warning to Aaron while he still grieves his sons in Leviticus 10:8 seems like a non-sequitur. So I guess I still think there is a strong theme in Nadab and Abihu's story having to do with obedience (yes, Mike; from the heart!) but also with the head fully engaged. What I can't see is applying this story to situations that are not parallel; where God has not clearly given instruction or command and has left a matter up to us ... yet someone decides that his/her interpretation is "the one and only" - and hellfire and brimstone from the presence of the Lord on anyone who disagrees! I wonder if part of the conclusion we can draw from Nadab and Abihu is that the reason their fire was “strange” or “unauthorized” was because they weren’t the ones who were supposed to bring it. In Exodus 30:7, Aaron is specified as the one to take care of burning incense, every morning and evening, at the altar made for it. It doesn’t really authorize him to delegate the task to his sons or anyone else or to use censers; there seems to be a delineation between what the high priest can do (“most holy” tasks) and what the priests can do (“holy” tasks).

And I may be off-base for suggesting it, but I have to wonder if alcohol impaired their judgment about obeying in the specified way; otherwise, the Lord’s warning to Aaron while he still grieves his sons in Leviticus 10:8 seems like a non-sequitur.

So I guess I still think there is a strong theme in Nadab and Abihu’s story having to do with obedience (yes, Mike; from the heart!) but also with the head fully engaged.

What I can’t see is applying this story to situations that are not parallel; where God has not clearly given instruction or command and has left a matter up to us … yet someone decides that his/her interpretation is “the one and only” – and hellfire and brimstone from the presence of the Lord on anyone who disagrees!

]]> By: Ruthie http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5670 Ruthie Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:15:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5670 Oh, man, those Nadab and Abihu sermons were enough to keep me up nights as a child! I remember being afraid to go to sleep, because, what if Jesus came back, and I didn't get a chance to hurriedly pray for forgiveness one last time for teensy infractions committed since my last "blanket" prayer or, Heaven forbid, what if I had done something awful that escaped my notice altogether! It's only been in recent years (and I'm in my late 40's) that I discovered Exodus 24, in which God invites a bunch of guys, INCLUDING Nadab and Abihu (of "burn, saute, and fry" fame!) to "come up", see Him in His glory, and dine in His presence. This passage gave me a completely different take on Nadab and Abihu -- and God. Here He is, wanting them to be in intimate communion with Him. These were guys who were allowed to know God in a way most of the Israelites could not, and THEN they blatantly thumbed their noses at Him. What a freeing concept: He's the God who bids us "come up" to Him -- He's approachable, He loves us, and He desires relationship with us. This is not a God who is just waiting to zap us at the first mistake or the tiniest omission. Praise be to Him, Who in His grace brought me to this place of peace -- He Who truly allowed my escape from the snare of legalism and terror! Oh, man, those Nadab and Abihu sermons were enough to keep me up nights as a child! I remember being afraid to go to sleep, because, what if Jesus came back, and I didn’t get a chance to hurriedly pray for forgiveness one last time for teensy infractions committed since my last “blanket” prayer or, Heaven forbid, what if I had done something awful that escaped my notice altogether!
It’s only been in recent years (and I’m in my late 40′s) that I discovered Exodus 24, in which God invites a bunch of guys, INCLUDING Nadab and Abihu (of “burn, saute, and fry” fame!) to “come up”, see Him in His glory, and dine in His presence. This passage gave me a completely different take on Nadab and Abihu — and God. Here He is, wanting them to be in intimate communion with Him. These were guys who were allowed to know God in a way most of the Israelites could not, and THEN they blatantly thumbed their noses at Him.
What a freeing concept: He’s the God who bids us “come up” to Him — He’s approachable, He loves us, and He desires relationship with us. This is not a God who is just waiting to zap us at the first mistake or the tiniest omission. Praise be to Him, Who in His grace brought me to this place of peace — He Who truly allowed my escape from the snare of legalism and terror!

]]> By: Dwiggy444 http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5669 Dwiggy444 Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:08:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5669 Blogging is an amazing way to see how God is working on the hearts of so many people at the same time... I've been struggling with the issue of "heart worship" and asking myself "What does <B>True Worship</B> look like?" for a few weeks now. I've talked to everyone that will listen, I've had lengthy debates with our Worship Team and I expounded on this topic at length in my recent <a HREF="http://radicalworship.blogspot.com/2005/09/from-heart.html" rel="nofollow">post</A>. So your thoughts came at just the right time. :-) As a very wise woman said to me last night (as we sat on the couch watching football), perhaps I need to just shut my mouth and let my heart do the talking. And maybe that's what we ALL need to do. God desires our hearts above all else. He probably doesn't care too much about how we express our love, or what it sounds like, whether we are standing or sitting or clapping or chanting or banging on a drum. So maybe we need to stop caring so much about all of these things and keep our focus where it truly belongs - on our <B>hearts</B>. Blogging is an amazing way to see how God is working on the hearts of so many people at the same time…

I’ve been struggling with the issue of “heart worship” and asking myself “What does True Worship look like?” for a few weeks now. I’ve talked to everyone that will listen, I’ve had lengthy debates with our Worship Team and I expounded on this topic at length in my recent post. So your thoughts came at just the right time. :-)

As a very wise woman said to me last night (as we sat on the couch watching football), perhaps I need to just shut my mouth and let my heart do the talking. And maybe that’s what we ALL need to do.

God desires our hearts above all else. He probably doesn’t care too much about how we express our love, or what it sounds like, whether we are standing or sitting or clapping or chanting or banging on a drum. So maybe we need to stop caring so much about all of these things and keep our focus where it truly belongs – on our hearts.

]]> By: Thurman8er http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5668 Thurman8er Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:43:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5668 Having just finished reading "Come To the Table" and still reeling from perspectives shared in a class I taught last year on womens' roles, this post really hits home. The question that runs through my mind again and again is "What do they think is going to HAPPEN?" If we commune differently? If a woman teaches? If...if...if...? And I guess the answer in some cases is: God is going to strike them down. If not now, then later. I guess I just thought we were past the Nadab and Abihu, hellfire and brimstone, stricken by lightning way of thinking. But I DO believe we're getting there. Thank you for continuing to educate in a kind and loving way. I'll keep trying to emulate. Having just finished reading “Come To the Table” and still reeling from perspectives shared in a class I taught last year on womens’ roles, this post really hits home. The question that runs through my mind again and again is “What do they think is going to HAPPEN?” If we commune differently? If a woman teaches? If…if…if…? And I guess the answer in some cases is: God is going to strike them down. If not now, then later.

I guess I just thought we were past the Nadab and Abihu, hellfire and brimstone, stricken by lightning way of thinking. But I DO believe we’re getting there.

Thank you for continuing to educate in a kind and loving way. I’ll keep trying to emulate.

]]> By: K. Rex Butts http://preachermike.com/2005/09/13/112657903520960767/comment-page-1#comment-5667 K. Rex Butts Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:15:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=586#comment-5667 This post has been removed by the author. This post has been removed by the author.

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