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	<title>Comments on: Kingdom Business, Church Business</title>
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	<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262</link>
	<description>Sniffing out the work of God in the world...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Ballroom</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-41385</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Ballroom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-41385</guid>
		<description>Google is the best search engine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google is the best search engine</p>
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		<title>By: don</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2008</link>
		<dc:creator>don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2008</guid>
		<description>I haven't been in this discussion, but have read along with interest.  I, like Mike, don't really know what the question is pertaining to.  I have gone back over the original quote, and find it hard to see what could (or should) or should not be justified by scripture.  It's like asking for a proof text on an op-ed piece. I'm not trying to get into this, but maybe if anonymous would be more specific with his question and what needs to be justified, it would be easier to formulate an answer.  I wouldn't know how to start, the way it is...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t been in this discussion, but have read along with interest.  I, like Mike, don&#8217;t really know what the question is pertaining to.  I have gone back over the original quote, and find it hard to see what could (or should) or should not be justified by scripture.  It&#8217;s like asking for a proof text on an op-ed piece. I&#8217;m not trying to get into this, but maybe if anonymous would be more specific with his question and what needs to be justified, it would be easier to formulate an answer.  I wouldn&#8217;t know how to start, the way it is&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David U</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2007</link>
		<dc:creator>David U</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2007</guid>
		<description>Anonymous, I assume since you addressed me I have been given permission to respond again.  :)

I don't think anybody considers your questions unreasonable. Mike communicated with "courtesy and respect" under what conditions he would answer ANY specific question you had, and I don't see that as unreasonable either.  I offered to visit with you over the phone.  Matt told you how to be able to post with your identity without having to worry about spam.  You declined all of the above.   I don't consider that the fruit of someone who is a seeker.   Instead, you stay in the shadows and play the victim.   That is not our choice, that is your choice. 

I continue to pray for you and ALL of us!  We are fellow brothers, not enemies.  Our true enemy, Satan, would like to see us treating each other as enemies.
Let's make sure to dissapoint him!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous, I assume since you addressed me I have been given permission to respond again.  <img src='http://preachermike.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I don&#8217;t think anybody considers your questions unreasonable. Mike communicated with &#8220;courtesy and respect&#8221; under what conditions he would answer ANY specific question you had, and I don&#8217;t see that as unreasonable either.  I offered to visit with you over the phone.  Matt told you how to be able to post with your identity without having to worry about spam.  You declined all of the above.   I don&#8217;t consider that the fruit of someone who is a seeker.   Instead, you stay in the shadows and play the victim.   That is not our choice, that is your choice. </p>
<p>I continue to pray for you and ALL of us!  We are fellow brothers, not enemies.  Our true enemy, Satan, would like to see us treating each other as enemies.<br />
Let&#8217;s make sure to dissapoint him!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2006</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2006</guid>
		<description>Mike, Dave:

I won't bother you, or this "community" anymore. I asked a question, and if you're honest (which I assume you are) you know that none was really given (Matt. 6:33 aside). My identity ought (should) not to have been an issue. You don't know me, and I don't know you. I just wanted some scripture to validate a quote you put on your (the communities) blog. As I said, I have absolutely no agenda. I think it important to justify what I believe scripturally, and I thought it would be true for you as well. I hope it is. 

It seems like, for the most part, I have been attacked. Why, for asking questions? For choosing to remain anonymous? What if I were someone with whom you do have disagreements, would you refuse to answer a question asked? If I were to call you and still wish to remain anonymous would you refuse to answer me? 

I'm sorry if I have bothered or offended anyone, but really, would it have been so hard to throw some scriptures out there to help a searcher?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, Dave:</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t bother you, or this &#8220;community&#8221; anymore. I asked a question, and if you&#8217;re honest (which I assume you are) you know that none was really given (Matt. 6:33 aside). My identity ought (should) not to have been an issue. You don&#8217;t know me, and I don&#8217;t know you. I just wanted some scripture to validate a quote you put on your (the communities) blog. As I said, I have absolutely no agenda. I think it important to justify what I believe scripturally, and I thought it would be true for you as well. I hope it is. </p>
<p>It seems like, for the most part, I have been attacked. Why, for asking questions? For choosing to remain anonymous? What if I were someone with whom you do have disagreements, would you refuse to answer a question asked? If I were to call you and still wish to remain anonymous would you refuse to answer me? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry if I have bothered or offended anyone, but really, would it have been so hard to throw some scriptures out there to help a searcher?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2005</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2005</guid>
		<description>Wow! 

I stumbled on this site the other day while surfing the net, and I asked a question. It seemed like a fair question. I made a response to Mike a little while ago, and said that I assumed it was his blog as it was called by his name. The response was directed to Mike.

Now another anonymous writer replies,

"Saying stupid things like that isn't likely to get your question answered."

What was stupid about my assumption, and why will it not get my question answered? 

Wow!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! </p>
<p>I stumbled on this site the other day while surfing the net, and I asked a question. It seemed like a fair question. I made a response to Mike a little while ago, and said that I assumed it was his blog as it was called by his name. The response was directed to Mike.</p>
<p>Now another anonymous writer replies,</p>
<p>&#8220;Saying stupid things like that isn&#8217;t likely to get your question answered.&#8221;</p>
<p>What was stupid about my assumption, and why will it not get my question answered? </p>
<p>Wow!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Elliott</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2004</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2004</guid>
		<description>Anonymous --

Go to mail.yahoo.com or www.hotmail.com and set up a free email account there.  Then ANYTIME you sign up for anything on the internet, use that email address.  As a result, all of your spam will get directed there instead of to your preferred email account.

With that obstacle out of the way, it shouldn't be any trouble for you to identify yourself so you can receive the answers you desire.  Mike's policy is a good one, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous &#8211;</p>
<p>Go to mail.yahoo.com or <a href="http://www.hotmail.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.hotmail.com</a> and set up a free email account there.  Then ANYTIME you sign up for anything on the internet, use that email address.  As a result, all of your spam will get directed there instead of to your preferred email account.</p>
<p>With that obstacle out of the way, it shouldn&#8217;t be any trouble for you to identify yourself so you can receive the answers you desire.  Mike&#8217;s policy is a good one, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2003</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2003</guid>
		<description>I believe if you'll look back he said it isn't "just Mike Cope's blog."  Geez.  Don't think he was denying that it's his blog.  He's just saying the obvious -- it has grown into something bigger.  There is a regular "community" that meets here -- apparently about 800 people a day.  Saying stupid things like that isn't likely to get your question answered.  And it probably confirms the policy he stated above of not answering anonymous questions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe if you&#8217;ll look back he said it isn&#8217;t &#8220;just Mike Cope&#8217;s blog.&#8221;  Geez.  Don&#8217;t think he was denying that it&#8217;s his blog.  He&#8217;s just saying the obvious &#8212; it has grown into something bigger.  There is a regular &#8220;community&#8221; that meets here &#8212; apparently about 800 people a day.  Saying stupid things like that isn&#8217;t likely to get your question answered.  And it probably confirms the policy he stated above of not answering anonymous questions!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2002</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2002</guid>
		<description>Hi Mike, you wrote,

"Having said that, anonymous comments are welcome on my blog. But I don't want to set a precedent of answering anonymous questions. Sign in, and I'll be glad to answer. I don't even have a clue as to what part of the quote you're asking about. (E.g., are you asking if the church and the kingdom are the same thing? Are you questioning whether churches ought to live for consumerism or for the reign of God -- "in authentic community for the sake of the world"?)"

I prefer to remain anonymous. I don't want to get spammed. 

Mike, I would like to see scriptural proof for nearly everything said in this quote. You put it out there, and I am wondering how you scripturally justify it. It seems like a fair question to me. If you believe it, prove it, please. I have no agenda other than simply trying to justify my beliefs by God's word.

I assumed that as this site is called, Mike Cope's Blog, that it was your blog. Sorry if I was wrong about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mike, you wrote,</p>
<p>&#8220;Having said that, anonymous comments are welcome on my blog. But I don&#8217;t want to set a precedent of answering anonymous questions. Sign in, and I&#8217;ll be glad to answer. I don&#8217;t even have a clue as to what part of the quote you&#8217;re asking about. (E.g., are you asking if the church and the kingdom are the same thing? Are you questioning whether churches ought to live for consumerism or for the reign of God &#8212; &#8220;in authentic community for the sake of the world&#8221;?)&#8221;</p>
<p>I prefer to remain anonymous. I don&#8217;t want to get spammed. </p>
<p>Mike, I would like to see scriptural proof for nearly everything said in this quote. You put it out there, and I am wondering how you scripturally justify it. It seems like a fair question to me. If you believe it, prove it, please. I have no agenda other than simply trying to justify my beliefs by God&#8217;s word.</p>
<p>I assumed that as this site is called, Mike Cope&#8217;s Blog, that it was your blog. Sorry if I was wrong about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2001</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2001</guid>
		<description>Wow.  I've missed a lot here.  It's finals week at ACU, grades are due, I preached Wednesday night, I've had to get ready for Sunday morning . . . .

This is not just Mike's Blog.  The things I write are from me (or quoted by me).  But the community that's created here has entered into discussions many times.  I'm thankful for that, because often I don't have the time to check back in again and again.

Having said that, anonymous comments are welcome on my blog.  But I don't want to set a precedent of answering anonymous questions.  Sign in, and I'll be glad to answer.  I don't even have a clue as to what part of the quote you're asking about.  (E.g., are you asking if the church and the kingdom are the same thing?  Are you questioning whether churches ought to live for consumerism or for the reign of God -- "in authentic community for the sake of the world"?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  I&#8217;ve missed a lot here.  It&#8217;s finals week at ACU, grades are due, I preached Wednesday night, I&#8217;ve had to get ready for Sunday morning . . . .</p>
<p>This is not just Mike&#8217;s Blog.  The things I write are from me (or quoted by me).  But the community that&#8217;s created here has entered into discussions many times.  I&#8217;m thankful for that, because often I don&#8217;t have the time to check back in again and again.</p>
<p>Having said that, anonymous comments are welcome on my blog.  But I don&#8217;t want to set a precedent of answering anonymous questions.  Sign in, and I&#8217;ll be glad to answer.  I don&#8217;t even have a clue as to what part of the quote you&#8217;re asking about.  (E.g., are you asking if the church and the kingdom are the same thing?  Are you questioning whether churches ought to live for consumerism or for the reign of God &#8212; &#8220;in authentic community for the sake of the world&#8221;?)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-2000</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-2000</guid>
		<description>David U:

My question is directed to Mike. Please let him respond. 

1 Peter 3:15 (Amplified Bible)

"But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David U:</p>
<p>My question is directed to Mike. Please let him respond. </p>
<p>1 Peter 3:15 (Amplified Bible)</p>
<p>&#8220;But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: David U</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-1999</link>
		<dc:creator>David U</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-1999</guid>
		<description>David Underwood
Searcy, Arkansas   USA 

I look forward to visiting with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Underwood<br />
Searcy, Arkansas   USA </p>
<p>I look forward to visiting with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-1998</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-1998</guid>
		<description>Dave U wrote:

"The first scripture I would refer you to is Matthew 6:33

For more discussion, pick up the phone and let's visit.
I am in the book!

God bless,
DU"

Dave, doesn't seeking the kingdom involve allowing the word of God to lead us? All I asked for were scriptures to illustrate the quote of Howard Snyder. I personally have asked Mike to help me with this twice, but have received no reply from him! Why?

As to picking up the phone, I have no idea who you are, or where you live. How could I do this?

I asked a sincere question, as one searching for truth. I am confused as to why none has been offered. Mike's bio says he is a minister. Are you there Mike?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave U wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;The first scripture I would refer you to is Matthew 6:33</p>
<p>For more discussion, pick up the phone and let&#8217;s visit.<br />
I am in the book!</p>
<p>God bless,<br />
DU&#8221;</p>
<p>Dave, doesn&#8217;t seeking the kingdom involve allowing the word of God to lead us? All I asked for were scriptures to illustrate the quote of Howard Snyder. I personally have asked Mike to help me with this twice, but have received no reply from him! Why?</p>
<p>As to picking up the phone, I have no idea who you are, or where you live. How could I do this?</p>
<p>I asked a sincere question, as one searching for truth. I am confused as to why none has been offered. Mike&#8217;s bio says he is a minister. Are you there Mike?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Jr.</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-1997</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-1997</guid>
		<description>The following is from a great book called, "The Church Multiplication Guide" by George Patterson and Richard Scoggins.:

"Circle 'bombs' below that may be warning that your people should not be confined to one facility:
• 'Maintenance' replaces outreach.
• People complain about investing tithes and offerings in material buildings.
• New workers 'walk on eggs' to avoid offending others in order to develop or expand a ministry.
• People express frustration because their ministries are being restricted or they are not allowed to do what God has gifted them to do.
• Leaders complain of exhaustion. Ministry is a chore rather than a joy.
• Planning sessions revolve more around keeping the organization running smoothly than around spiritual and pastoral concerns.
• Rules proliferate.
• Innovations take longer.
• Potential leaders and competing.
• The percentage of members in places of leadership declines.
• A chronic shortage of leaders in touch with the local community stifles outreach.
• The church must rely more and more on paid staff.
• Programs receive more attention than people do.
• Funds for buildings and paid staff are becoming a major concern and topic of discussion by leaders.
• Unsaved visitors seldom return.
• Sterility replaces reproduction.
• Even heroic attempts to form effective home groups are futile."

I think the above are signs that church is more of an organization or business than a living, missional organism.  Not all of the above are inherently "bad," but they do require some discernment as to whether or not they help or hurt our involvement in the Great Commission.  I hope that's a blessing to someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following is from a great book called, &#8220;The Church Multiplication Guide&#8221; by George Patterson and Richard Scoggins.:</p>
<p>&#8220;Circle &#8216;bombs&#8217; below that may be warning that your people should not be confined to one facility:<br />
• &#8216;Maintenance&#8217; replaces outreach.<br />
• People complain about investing tithes and offerings in material buildings.<br />
• New workers &#8216;walk on eggs&#8217; to avoid offending others in order to develop or expand a ministry.<br />
• People express frustration because their ministries are being restricted or they are not allowed to do what God has gifted them to do.<br />
• Leaders complain of exhaustion. Ministry is a chore rather than a joy.<br />
• Planning sessions revolve more around keeping the organization running smoothly than around spiritual and pastoral concerns.<br />
• Rules proliferate.<br />
• Innovations take longer.<br />
• Potential leaders and competing.<br />
• The percentage of members in places of leadership declines.<br />
• A chronic shortage of leaders in touch with the local community stifles outreach.<br />
• The church must rely more and more on paid staff.<br />
• Programs receive more attention than people do.<br />
• Funds for buildings and paid staff are becoming a major concern and topic of discussion by leaders.<br />
• Unsaved visitors seldom return.<br />
• Sterility replaces reproduction.<br />
• Even heroic attempts to form effective home groups are futile.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the above are signs that church is more of an organization or business than a living, missional organism.  Not all of the above are inherently &#8220;bad,&#8221; but they do require some discernment as to whether or not they help or hurt our involvement in the Great Commission.  I hope that&#8217;s a blessing to someone.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Jr.</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-1996</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-1996</guid>
		<description>This post has been removed by the author.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post has been removed by the author.</p>
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		<title>By: David U</title>
		<link>http://preachermike.com/2004/12/08/110245293591524262#comment-1995</link>
		<dc:creator>David U</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.preachermike.com/?p=390#comment-1995</guid>
		<description>I don't know how that last comment got posted as "anonymous".   It weren't......it were me!

DU</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how that last comment got posted as &#8220;anonymous&#8221;.   It weren&#8217;t&#8230;&#8230;it were me!</p>
<p>DU</p>
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