Comments on: Praying for the Kingdom That is Not Fully Come http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322 Sniffing out the work of God in the world... Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:12:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Anonymous http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1401 Anonymous Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:47:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1401 First let me say, that I'm am a christian. However, I don't think of my nation as a Christian nation at all. It's the most culturally diverse country ever in existence. First let me say, that I’m am a christian. However, I don’t think of my nation as a Christian nation at all. It’s the most culturally diverse country ever in existence.

]]> By: don http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1400 don Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:24:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1400 On being mission minded as a church: yesterday I heard it put a little differently than I remember, and it was a good point. Many of us attend church to be served (maintenance), while others view it as launching pad for mission outside the walls. The folks who are complaining about the elders, worship style, etc, are maintenance folks, while the mission minded typically don't--they're busy thinking about the mission, instead of the externals. Not all maintenance types are complainers, but just about all complainers are maintenance types. I thought that was good. When a person says "I love baseball", he could mean he loves comparing stats, getting autographs, and going to the ball park, or he could mean that he loves to get in and play the game. Are we rule-book studiers, or are we actually the ones in there playing the game? don On being mission minded as a church: yesterday I heard it put a little differently than I remember, and it was a good point. Many of us attend church to be served (maintenance), while others view it as launching pad for mission outside the walls. The folks who are complaining about the elders, worship style, etc, are maintenance folks, while the mission minded typically don’t–they’re busy thinking about the mission, instead of the externals. Not all maintenance types are complainers, but just about all complainers are maintenance types. I thought that was good.

When a person says “I love baseball”, he could mean he loves comparing stats, getting autographs, and going to the ball park, or he could mean that he loves to get in and play the game. Are we rule-book studiers, or are we actually the ones in there playing the game?

don

]]> By: mchristophoros http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1399 mchristophoros Mon, 27 Sep 2004 03:48:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1399 Many of our folks would understand the Kingdom better if we said more clearly who the King is. Somehow we (including me too until recently) have missed the meaning of "Christ", "Messiah", "King of Kings and Lord of Lords", not to mention "Are you a KING?" and "MY kingdom is not of this world". I further (recently) understand the kingdom as being the dwelling of the Holy Spirit within the believer, and NOT the beginning of an institution called "church", whether a capital or a small "C". This was the thing which was "near", "soon to come", and certainly "good news". "I baptize you in water, but there is one coming after me who will baptize you in the Holy Spirit" is said or alluded to six times in the gospels and Acts. I think Paul's description of the giving of the Holy Spirit as a seal and deposit on our full redemption helps explain the "now and not yet" aspect that Mike is referring to. I can't get enough of this! Many of our folks would understand the Kingdom better if we said more clearly who the King is. Somehow we (including me too until recently) have missed the meaning of “Christ”, “Messiah”, “King of Kings and Lord of Lords”, not to mention “Are you a KING?” and “MY kingdom is not of this world”.

I further (recently) understand the kingdom as being the dwelling of the Holy Spirit within the believer, and NOT the beginning of an institution called “church”, whether a capital or a small “C”. This was the thing which was “near”, “soon to come”, and certainly “good news”. “I baptize you in water, but there is one coming after me who will baptize you in the Holy Spirit” is said or alluded to six times in the gospels and Acts.

I think Paul’s description of the giving of the Holy Spirit as a seal and deposit on our full redemption helps explain the “now and not yet” aspect that Mike is referring to.

I can’t get enough of this!

]]> By: mchristophoros http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1398 mchristophoros Mon, 27 Sep 2004 03:32:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1398 This post has been removed by the author. This post has been removed by the author.

]]> By: Clarissa http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1397 Clarissa Sun, 26 Sep 2004 19:08:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1397 I have. Don't know if I did it well -- and actually, was about 5 weeks ago. Still hearing from the one with whom I shared -- we communicate pretty much weekly. Still hopeful and prayerful about that person's future -- don't know how God's hand will manifest itself in that individual's life -- don't know what discipleship might look like there. Is someone whose way of life and family type are markedly different from mine, and most of those with whom I associate. I'm prayerful that God will continue to open my eyes to such people and to trust that he can use me to reach them even if their lives don't look like mine ... (Sorry so wordy.) I have. Don’t know if I did it well — and actually, was about 5 weeks ago. Still hearing from the one with whom I shared — we communicate pretty much weekly. Still hopeful and prayerful about that person’s future — don’t know how God’s hand will manifest itself in that individual’s life — don’t know what discipleship might look like there. Is someone whose way of life and family type are markedly different from mine, and most of those with whom I associate. I’m prayerful that God will continue to open my eyes to such people and to trust that he can use me to reach them even if their lives don’t look like mine …
(Sorry so wordy.)

]]> By: ChurchKid http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1396 ChurchKid Sun, 26 Sep 2004 04:09:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1396 Just curious, how many here have shared their faith (explicitly) with an unchurched person in the last month (outside of the church walls)? Just curious, how many here have shared their faith (explicitly) with an unchurched person in the last month (outside of the church walls)?

]]> By: James http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1395 James Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:16:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1395 There really ought to be a way to type this even louder...AMEN!!!!! There really ought to be a way to type this even louder…AMEN!!!!!

]]> By: Steve Jr. http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1394 Steve Jr. Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:31:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1394 My inlaws attend a Baptist church in Round Rock. Last night, I was relaying to them what I am learning about domestic missions and church planting at ACU, and informed them that Africa is now the center of the Christian world. They were stunned. My father-in-law said, "How can that be?" We are so sheltered and comfortable that we believe the lies politicized Evangelicals tell us about the origin and current state of our nation. It wasn't my inlaws' fault, they just bought into what the majority of Western Christians believe. African churches are sending missionaries to the United States, but sadly, few American Christians see the United States as a mission field for themselves. I've heard 80 percent unchurched statistics about the Pacific Northwest and 70-80 percent stats on the Northeast (it could be more or less, and I need to update my stats). Lord, give us a hunger for our own nation before we think about proseletyzing other nations. The fields are white -- may the Lord of the Harvest raise up harvesters! My inlaws attend a Baptist church in Round Rock. Last night, I was relaying to them what I am learning about domestic missions and church planting at ACU, and informed them that Africa is now the center of the Christian world. They were stunned. My father-in-law said, “How can that be?” We are so sheltered and comfortable that we believe the lies politicized Evangelicals tell us about the origin and current state of our nation. It wasn’t my inlaws’ fault, they just bought into what the majority of Western Christians believe.

African churches are sending missionaries to the United States, but sadly, few American Christians see the United States as a mission field for themselves. I’ve heard 80 percent unchurched statistics about the Pacific Northwest and 70-80 percent stats on the Northeast (it could be more or less, and I need to update my stats). Lord, give us a hunger for our own nation before we think about proseletyzing other nations. The fields are white — may the Lord of the Harvest raise up harvesters!

]]> By: Mike http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1393 Mike Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:00:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1393 Amy - I don't know about Joe Beam. I haven't heard about a blog he's doing. But I can pretty much assure you this: Randy Harris doesn't. That would involve actually becoming computer literate. :) Amy - I don’t know about Joe Beam. I haven’t heard about a blog he’s doing. But I can pretty much assure you this: Randy Harris doesn’t. That would involve actually becoming computer literate. :)

]]> By: Anonymous http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1392 Anonymous Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:23:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1392 Mike, you challenge me and push the envelope almost daily. I appreciate your brutal honesty and evaluation of us as a body. As I was reading today, for some reason the following question popped into my head: "Wonder if Randy Harris or Joe Beam have a blog?!" Now, there are two others who set the bar a lot higher for us all. Amy in south Texas Mike, you challenge me and push the envelope almost daily. I appreciate your brutal honesty and evaluation of us as a body. As I was reading today, for some reason the following question popped into my head: “Wonder if Randy Harris or Joe Beam have a blog?!” Now, there are two others who set the bar a lot higher for us all.
Amy in south Texas

]]> By: Greg Kendall-Ball http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1391 Greg Kendall-Ball Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:28:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1391 Mike, Any chance of a guest sermon by Darrell Guder? Heck, I'd even take a Hunsberger or a van Gelder! Just askin' Mike,
Any chance of a guest sermon by Darrell Guder?
Heck, I’d even take a Hunsberger or a van Gelder!

Just askin’

]]> By: Greg Kendall-Ball http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1390 Greg Kendall-Ball Fri, 24 Sep 2004 20:22:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1390 SG- African churches are already sending missionaries to America, and to Europe and to Latin America. That fact alone should serve as a wake up call to our American churches. Sort of like when I think I'm doing the dishes right, but then my wife has to come and show me how I'm not doing that good a job at all. SG-
African churches are already sending missionaries to America, and to Europe and to Latin America. That fact alone should serve as a wake up call to our American churches. Sort of like when I think I’m doing the dishes right, but then my wife has to come and show me how I’m not doing that good a job at all.

]]> By: Mike http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1389 Mike Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:02:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1389 John - Your patient comments encourages me to blog more about this in the future. For now, let me suggest a source: www.edwardfudge.com/gracemails/kingdom_of_god.html. This is so important because it relates to the very heart and mission of God. Without a proper understanding of the Bible's "already-but-not-yet" perspective on the kingdom, we head in the wrong direction in our understanding of the church, reconciliation, mission, justice, etc. For now, let me just say this: yes, we believe that the "reign of God" (kingdom) has become evident through the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. But that "reign" is not anywhere near complete--that is, the shalom of peace, justice, celebration, and reconciliation has not fully broken through. So, we pray for God's will to be done on earth as in heaven. More later . . . . John - Your patient comments encourages me to blog more about this in the future. For now, let me suggest a source: http://www.edwardfudge.com/gracemails/kingdom_of_god.html.

This is so important because it relates to the very heart and mission of God. Without a proper understanding of the Bible’s “already-but-not-yet” perspective on the kingdom, we head in the wrong direction in our understanding of the church, reconciliation, mission, justice, etc.

For now, let me just say this: yes, we believe that the “reign of God” (kingdom) has become evident through the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. But that “reign” is not anywhere near complete–that is, the shalom of peace, justice, celebration, and reconciliation has not fully broken through. So, we pray for God’s will to be done on earth as in heaven.

More later . . . .

]]> By: John http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1388 John Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:43:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1388 Hi Mike: Wow, thanks for the quick response, and explanation. I am still a little confused however. I am not familiar with the term, "broken in" as it relates to the kingdom. Don't passages like Colossians 1:13; 4:11; Rev. 1:6, etc... show the kingdom to be in it's full sense, present now? When do you believe the kingdom will be fully experienced here? Again, I am not trying to be contentious, I am just seeking! Hi Mike:

Wow, thanks for the quick response, and explanation. I am still a little confused however. I am not familiar with the term, “broken in” as it relates to the kingdom. Don’t passages like Colossians 1:13; 4:11; Rev. 1:6, etc… show the kingdom to be in it’s full sense, present now? When do you believe the kingdom will be fully experienced here?

Again, I am not trying to be contentious, I am just seeking!

]]> By: Mike http://preachermike.com/2004/09/24/109602791084831322#comment-1387 Mike Fri, 24 Sep 2004 18:04:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=337#comment-1387 John - Thanks for asking for more explanation. I'm saying that the prayer of Jesus is still valid (hopefully so--since Christians have prayed it for 2000 years!). God's kingdom has broken in -- but his reign is not accomplished on earth "as it is in heaven." That's why we often use the phrase "already-but-not-yet" when referring to the kingdom. It has broken in. But the kingdom (=the rule of God) has not been fully experienced here. John - Thanks for asking for more explanation. I’m saying that the prayer of Jesus is still valid (hopefully so–since Christians have prayed it for 2000 years!). God’s kingdom has broken in — but his reign is not accomplished on earth “as it is in heaven.” That’s why we often use the phrase “already-but-not-yet” when referring to the kingdom. It has broken in. But the kingdom (=the rule of God) has not been fully experienced here.

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