Comments on: 108851423793528331 http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331 Sniffing out the work of God in the world... Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:08:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Jack Tyson http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-41325 Jack Tyson Tue, 16 Jan 2007 11:17:38 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-41325 Google is the best search engine Google is the best search engine

]]> By: chrismith http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-522 chrismith Fri, 02 Jul 2004 13:26:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-522 The best leaders I know are those that desire input. That's not to say that leaders love committees, but I think that if a "worship committee" works with the worship leader, you can work to have the kind of worship you are talking about, the songs pointing to the sermon, the sermon mixing with the Lord's Supper, the Lord's Supper fitting with the songs, the entire worship pointing to God. I would simply insist that the worship leader (and the preacher, for that matter) be allowed to meet with and (if he desires) lead the group. I don't think we should have a group that tells the worship leader what he's going to sing. As far as the offering being with the communion, I could really go either way. I've just always been struck by our insistence that it be "separate and apart". I think, for some of us, we'd like our entire walk to play out this way. Christ's sacrifice has nothing to do with mine. I think the two are directly connected and, I think, that makes the offering anything but separate and apart. The best leaders I know are those that desire input. That’s not to say that leaders love committees, but I think that if a “worship committee” works with the worship leader, you can work to have the kind of worship you are talking about, the songs pointing to the sermon, the sermon mixing with the Lord’s Supper, the Lord’s Supper fitting with the songs, the entire worship pointing to God. I would simply insist that the worship leader (and the preacher, for that matter) be allowed to meet with and (if he desires) lead the group. I don’t think we should have a group that tells the worship leader what he’s going to sing.

As far as the offering being with the communion, I could really go either way. I’ve just always been struck by our insistence that it be “separate and apart”. I think, for some of us, we’d like our entire walk to play out this way. Christ’s sacrifice has nothing to do with mine. I think the two are directly connected and, I think, that makes the offering anything but separate and apart.

]]> By: chrismith http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-521 chrismith Fri, 02 Jul 2004 13:24:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-521 The best leaders I know are those that desire input. That's not to say that leaders love committees, but I think that if a "worship committee" works with the worship leader, you can work to have the kind of worship you are talking about, the songs pointing to the sermon, the sermon mixing with the Lord's Supper, the Lord's Supper fitting with the songs, the entire worship pointing to God. I would simply insist that the worship leader (and the preacher, for that matter) be allowed to meet with and (if he desires) lead the group. I don't think we should have a group that tells the worship leader what he's going to sing. The best leaders I know are those that desire input. That’s not to say that leaders love committees, but I think that if a “worship committee” works with the worship leader, you can work to have the kind of worship you are talking about, the songs pointing to the sermon, the sermon mixing with the Lord’s Supper, the Lord’s Supper fitting with the songs, the entire worship pointing to God. I would simply insist that the worship leader (and the preacher, for that matter) be allowed to meet with and (if he desires) lead the group. I don’t think we should have a group that tells the worship leader what he’s going to sing.

]]> By: Jon http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-520 Jon Thu, 01 Jul 2004 01:28:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-520 Over the last several years, the implementation of the "worship committee" is kind of bothering me. I don't know if it's a fear or an annoyance. We don't have a committee that would put together the sermon for a preaching minister. Why? We feel that God has called, gifted and further equipped individuals to proclaim truths from the word that would inspire, convict, comfort etc... Why then do we not trust that God would not raise up an individual with the same giftings with a different slant, to effectively follow God's heart that would lead a group of believers to worship. I understand that full-time or even part-time worship leaders in a staff position is still in a new thing in churches of Christ. Sometimes the committee is the stepping stone for that to take place. But I also fear that sometimes "worship committees" are the people that spend more time discussing how do we make everybody happy by choosing the right songs, than how do we use our hour to hour and a half to truly reveal the glory of God in our time together. There can be a creative benefit in a committee. There is also wisdom in numbers. But God raises up leaders. I believe it's time we trust and follow the leadership that God gives us. Over the last several years, the implementation of the “worship committee” is kind of bothering me. I don’t know if it’s a fear or an annoyance. We don’t have a committee that would put together the sermon for a preaching minister. Why? We feel that God has called, gifted and further equipped individuals to proclaim truths from the word that would inspire, convict, comfort etc… Why then do we not trust that God would not raise up an individual with the same giftings with a different slant, to effectively follow God’s heart that would lead a group of believers to worship. I understand that full-time or even part-time worship leaders in a staff position is still in a new thing in churches of Christ. Sometimes the committee is the stepping stone for that to take place. But I also fear that sometimes “worship committees” are the people that spend more time discussing how do we make everybody happy by choosing the right songs, than how do we use our hour to hour and a half to truly reveal the glory of God in our time together. There can be a creative benefit in a committee. There is also wisdom in numbers. But God raises up leaders. I believe it’s time we trust and follow the leadership that God gives us.

]]> By: Anonymous http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-519 Anonymous Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:29:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-519 Like "Dave",I'm getting so much out of the comments made on Mike's blog also. This is my first time to comment, and I have nothing to say that tops anything else said on the topic of worship in the assembly. I appreciate so much the worship committe at my congregation. While there are times the service is not how I would've conducted it, I realize it is not about how "perfect" we do it; it's just that we do it joyfully and with overflowing gratitude for an awesome Father. I try to picture the scenes in Revelation quite often to help me as I worship with my fellow members. Like “Dave”,I’m getting so much out of the comments made on Mike’s blog also. This is my first time to comment, and I have nothing to say that tops anything else said on the topic of worship in the assembly. I appreciate so much the worship committe at my congregation. While there are times the service is not how I would’ve conducted it, I realize it is not about how “perfect” we do it; it’s just that we do it joyfully and with overflowing gratitude for an awesome Father. I try to picture the scenes in Revelation quite often to help me as I worship with my fellow members.

]]> By: David U http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-518 David U Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:47:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-518 Mike is not only blessing me with his comments, but also by providing ALL of you with a venue to respond with your beautiful Christ-like attitudes and words of wisdom! Thank you for the GREAT comments by each and every one of you. Q, I attended the "Men of the Mid-South" conference at Sycamore View a few weeks ago and Kip was our worship leader. He did a fantastic job! You all are blessed to have him there. Having grown up in a c of C home, one concept that jumped out at me several years ago was that with all of our attention and energy on our doctrinally correct music, communion service done correctly (in the words of Don McLaughlin "pray, pass, pause....pray, pass" and you better not screw that up), announcements, the "lesson", and etc.....we were actually WORSHIPING the "worship service"!! It was our golden calf!! We were called to worship HIM, and we were worshiping it. What a tremendous blessing it was to realize that others saw that too, and were willing to be bold enough to take the steps to get away from that heresy. We needed to hear the words of the Savior telling us "Man wasn't made for the Worship Service, rather the Worship Service was made for man". FYI, I am using the term "worship service" in these comments, but a few years ago I decided to quit using that term because are we not called to worship 24/7? So, I use the term "the Assembly". If you use "worship service" it does not offend me, and I understand what you mean. I just choose to use the other. God is good! Mike is not only blessing me with his comments, but also by providing ALL of you with a venue to respond with your beautiful Christ-like attitudes and words of wisdom! Thank you for the GREAT comments by each and every one of you.
Q, I attended the “Men of the Mid-South” conference at Sycamore View a few weeks ago and Kip was our worship leader. He did a fantastic job! You all are blessed to have him there.

Having grown up in a c of C home, one concept that jumped out at me several years ago was that with all of our attention and energy on our doctrinally correct music, communion service done correctly (in the words of Don McLaughlin “pray, pass, pause….pray, pass” and you better not screw that up), announcements, the “lesson”, and etc…..we were actually WORSHIPING the “worship service”!! It was our golden calf!! We were called to worship HIM, and we were worshiping it. What a tremendous blessing it was to realize that others saw that too, and were willing to be bold enough to take the steps to get away from that heresy. We needed to hear the words of the Savior telling us “Man wasn’t made for the Worship Service, rather the Worship Service was made for man”. FYI, I am using the term “worship service” in these comments, but a few years ago I decided to quit using that term because are we not called to worship 24/7? So, I use the term “the Assembly”. If you use “worship service” it does not offend me, and I understand what you mean. I just choose to use the other.
God is good!

]]> By: Serena Voss http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-517 Serena Voss Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:25:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-517 Well, Keith, I must have a little too much time on my hands right now, either that or I am avoiding cleaning my office, but I actually went searching for your blog. You win; I didn't find it! : ) Well, Keith, I must have a little too much time on my hands right now, either that or I am avoiding cleaning my office, but I actually went searching for your blog. You win; I didn’t find it! : )

]]> By: Kathy http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-516 Kathy Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:36:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-516 Chris, the minister/preacher at my former church home before moving to Abilene has a very special way of putting visitors at ease about offerings and tithes. (He also has finely tuned, comedic timing) - He would mention that everyone is invited to worship with us, but there is no charge for doing so - but seriously, those that are responsible for seeing that the ministries of the church be funded are its members - that if anyone felt they wanted to partake in that part of our worship, welcome, but under no circumstances is there an obligation nor encouragement to do so. He usually mentioned lightheartedly, something like "we don't need your money - seriously, this is a worship offering to God from the members of this congregation in thanksgiving for His bounty. We're so happy you could be with us today, and we invite you to be an observer of this part of our worship. Also, the first Sunday of each month, after communion, a second offering was always taken in thanksgiving for Jesus' benevolence - a benevolent fund offering. Tim always explained why we take this second offering - that it is to aid those in the church family and the community that run into acute difficulties and again, this is a part of the congregation's worship - that visitors again are welcomed to observe that part of the congregation's worship. I'm one that prefers that the weekly offering not be 'tied to' the LORD's Supper, rather that it be made clear it is a totally different, separate, albeit important element of our corporate worship, that it also is an act of worship. Chris, the minister/preacher at my former church home before moving to Abilene has a very special way of putting visitors at ease about offerings and tithes. (He also has finely tuned, comedic timing) - He would mention that everyone is invited to worship with us, but there is no charge for doing so - but seriously, those that are responsible for seeing that the ministries of the church be funded are its members - that if anyone felt they wanted to partake in that part of our worship, welcome, but under no circumstances is there an obligation nor encouragement to do so. He usually mentioned lightheartedly, something like “we don’t need your money - seriously, this is a worship offering to God from the members of this congregation in thanksgiving for His bounty. We’re so happy you could be with us today, and we invite you to be an observer of this part of our worship.

Also, the first Sunday of each month, after communion, a second offering was always taken in thanksgiving for Jesus’ benevolence - a benevolent fund offering. Tim always explained why we take this second offering - that it is to aid those in the church family and the community that run into acute difficulties and again, this is a part of the congregation’s worship - that visitors again are welcomed to observe that part of the congregation’s worship.

I’m one that prefers that the weekly offering not be ‘tied to’ the LORD’s Supper, rather that it be made clear it is a totally different, separate, albeit important element of our corporate worship, that it also is an act of worship.

]]> By: DJG http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-515 DJG Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:31:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-515 Chris, I am sure Brandon Scott Thomas would like you to know the accappella version is on the Zoe Live Worship CD. I just found out about that little garbage can.. I just wondered what it did. Chris,
I am sure Brandon Scott Thomas would like you to know the accappella version is on the Zoe Live Worship CD.

I just found out about that little garbage can.. I just wondered what it did.

]]> By: DJG http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-514 DJG Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:26:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-514 This post has been removed by the author. This post has been removed by the author.

]]> By: Serena Voss http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-513 Serena Voss Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:16:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-513 I think all you guys (that's men and women) would make a great worship committee team. You have brought scripture, consideration and good ole common sense to the mix. I think all you guys (that’s men and women) would make a great worship committee team. You have brought scripture, consideration and good ole common sense to the mix.

]]> By: Q http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-512 Q Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:42:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-512 Ha. Chris, if you want an a cappella arrangement, you should talk to our worship minister (Kip Long). He's got one for everything, I think... Since the bulk of the songs he knows are from his years in youth ministry, we tend to have an interesting mix on Sundays... Too, Sycamore View <I>doesn't</I> do the collection right after communion. It confused the heck out of me when I first started attending... I have to ferret out one of the worship bulletins to figure out exactly when it's done -- but it's one of the last things we do before we leave. It <I>is</I> coupled with communion for those who "were unable to share in the Lord's supper; it's been prepared for you in [the appropriate room]." Some things would be complicated to swap. Unless of course we started simply offering communion during evening services... But that'd go over like a pregnant pole vaulter. Ha. Chris, if you want an a cappella arrangement, you should talk to our worship minister (Kip Long). He’s got one for everything, I think… Since the bulk of the songs he knows are from his years in youth ministry, we tend to have an interesting mix on Sundays…

Too, Sycamore View doesn’t do the collection right after communion. It confused the heck out of me when I first started attending… I have to ferret out one of the worship bulletins to figure out exactly when it’s done — but it’s one of the last things we do before we leave. It is coupled with communion for those who “were unable to share in the Lord’s supper; it’s been prepared for you in [the appropriate room].” Some things would be complicated to swap. Unless of course we started simply offering communion during evening services… But that’d go over like a pregnant pole vaulter.

]]> By: chrismith http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-511 chrismith Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:36:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-511 I don't think we can use that song, DJG...unless you have an a capella arrangement. Kidding. Good stuff. I have always liked the collection with the Lord's Supper. I don't like the "separate and apart". I think we'd like to think it's that way, but I think God's grace and our response are intimately connected. I do agree that visitors should feel 0 pressure to contribute, but I think we can acknowledge that by simply explaining what it is we're doing. This is why we take this bread. This is why we take this cup. This is why we give this money. If you don't feel compelled to do any of those things, please don't. I don’t think we can use that song, DJG…unless you have an a capella arrangement. Kidding. Good stuff.

I have always liked the collection with the Lord’s Supper. I don’t like the “separate and apart”. I think we’d like to think it’s that way, but I think God’s grace and our response are intimately connected.

I do agree that visitors should feel 0 pressure to contribute, but I think we can acknowledge that by simply explaining what it is we’re doing. This is why we take this bread. This is why we take this cup. This is why we give this money. If you don’t feel compelled to do any of those things, please don’t.

]]> By: Keith Brenton http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-510 Keith Brenton Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:38:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-510 Ouch! The collection is a slightly sore spot with me for other reasons. As an every-three-month worship planner at church, I'm in a constant quandry to move collection away from communion because they have nothing to do with each other ... and yet, it's a little clearer and more convenient for those who serve. Plus we've just gotten into the decades-long habit of reaching for the wallet after the second tray passes. We should feel especially grateful and generous after our feast together, but ... should it come right after? I agree that giving gifts of praise and currency are both acts of worship, but I'm sure it can be a little off-putting to newcomers. I once opened a service with a mini-description of things that would happen, in an attempt to prepare visitors ... even said that none of us wants to discourage anyone else about giving, but visitors shouldn't feel pressured or compelled to do so. These comments always wander from the main topic! Still, Mike's point is well-taken. We should gather to worship. But - like Paul pointed out to Corinthians trying to out-do each other with spiritual gifts - we shouldn't confuse and alienate guests among us either. Yeah, I've got a blog. Find it! Ouch! The collection is a slightly sore spot with me for other reasons. As an every-three-month worship planner at church, I’m in a constant quandry to move collection away from communion because they have nothing to do with each other … and yet, it’s a little clearer and more convenient for those who serve. Plus we’ve just gotten into the decades-long habit of reaching for the wallet after the second tray passes.

We should feel especially grateful and generous after our feast together, but … should it come right after?

I agree that giving gifts of praise and currency are both acts of worship, but I’m sure it can be a little off-putting to newcomers. I once opened a service with a mini-description of things that would happen, in an attempt to prepare visitors … even said that none of us wants to discourage anyone else about giving, but visitors shouldn’t feel pressured or compelled to do so.

These comments always wander from the main topic! Still, Mike’s point is well-taken. We should gather to worship. But - like Paul pointed out to Corinthians trying to out-do each other with spiritual gifts - we shouldn’t confuse and alienate guests among us either.

Yeah, I’ve got a blog. Find it!

]]> By: DJG http://preachermike.com/2004/06/29/108851423793528331#comment-509 DJG Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:04:00 +0000 http://www.preachermike.com/?p=273#comment-509 It occurs to me that these lyrics say it all.... When we make it All About Jesus, we will have nothing to sell, people will be drawn to Him. When the music fades All is stripped away And I simply come Longing just to bring Something that's of worth That will bless your heart Bridge I'll bring You more than a song For a song in itself Is not what You have required You search much deeper within Through the way things appear You're looking into my heart Chorus I'm coming back to the heart of worhip And it's all about You It's all about You, Jesus I'm sorry, Lord, for the thing I've made it When it's all about You It's all about You, Jesus Verse 2 King of endless worth No one could express How much you deserve Though I'm weak and poor All I have is yours Every single breath It occurs to me that these lyrics say it all…. When we make it All About Jesus, we will have nothing to sell, people will be drawn to Him.

When the music fades
All is stripped away
And I simply come
Longing just to bring
Something that’s of worth
That will bless your heart

Bridge
I’ll bring You more than a song
For a song in itself
Is not what You have required
You search much deeper within
Through the way things appear
You’re looking into my heart

Chorus
I’m coming back to the heart of worhip
And it’s all about You
It’s all about You, Jesus
I’m sorry, Lord, for the thing I’ve made it
When it’s all about You
It’s all about You, Jesus

Verse 2
King of endless worth
No one could express
How much you deserve
Though I’m weak and poor
All I have is yours
Every single breath

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